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Thread: Warden DPS?

  1. #1
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    Warden DPS?

    I have a 65 Guardian which I primarily play solo. He's fun enough, but occasionally I just want to whack things really hard and see a big yellow number float around, which Guardians generally don't do (or at least mine doesn't, the occasional crit aside). So I've been playing around with alts...

    I've rolled both a Warden and a Champ and have gotten them to 18 and 20 respectively. I like the Warden playstyle better, but I still don't have a good sense of whether a Warden makes a decent DPS class (at 18, everything is a good DPS class). I see a lot of posts on how well they can tank, but few mention much about DPS.

    Could someone please comment on a Warden's potential as a DPS class? I wouldn't expect Wardens to put out as much damage as a Champ, but I don't care to be top DPS, only more impressive (DPS-wise) than a Guardian.
    [center]Easric (74 Warden) | Caledhir (75 Guardian) | Pennie (55 Minstrel) | Jaume (67 Hunter)
    ~/ Silverlode /~[/center]

  2. #2

    Re: Warden DPS?

    A well specced OP Guard can be equal to that of a Warden, but it's easier for a Warden to shell out good ST DPS by simply switching to the spear line. I've heard for Guards it takes a little more with having to get a different LI for the occasion. For Wardens we can't use 2H weapons so it's not as involved. Just don't expect to get picked for a DPS role as a Warden.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/1321300000003b62c/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    Originally Posted by [B]Graalx2 [/B]-Directed at Wardens!
    You guys!!! There is such a thing as being too efficient.

  3. #3
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    Re: Warden DPS?

    So pretty much Wardens are another tank class and not much better on DPS.

    Thanks for the info.
    [center]Easric (74 Warden) | Caledhir (75 Guardian) | Pennie (55 Minstrel) | Jaume (67 Hunter)
    ~/ Silverlode /~[/center]

  4. #4

    Re: Warden DPS?

    Quote Originally Posted by ddaedelus View Post
    So pretty much Wardens are another tank class and not much better on DPS.

    Thanks for the info.
    Well Tank is their description lol, but we do enough DPS to tank with it alone so I would say on average we do higher DPS then a Guard and if you really pushed for it you can do higher ST DPS than a champ, but keep in mind a Champ is not top of the list for ST DPS either. It's just with them being a melee class people tend to pick them to compare to us, but champs shine more with their AoEs.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/1321300000003b62c/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    Originally Posted by [B]Graalx2 [/B]-Directed at Wardens!
    You guys!!! There is such a thing as being too efficient.

  5. #5
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    Re: Warden DPS?

    Warden's single target DPS is fine- but where we fall short of DPS classes is utility. Champs can move aggro around, and don't run out of power. Hunters are very sustainable, again able to keep their own power up and can drop their aggro if needed.

    RKs also have some utility skills to add. Wardens can DPS or tank, and if DPSing, usually end up tanking anyways. While I have put up nice numbers in groups, I lack the skills that support a DPS role other than the DPS skills themselves.
    Nerves, of the Brandywine.

  6. #6

    Re: Warden DPS?

    Quote Originally Posted by LtDiablo View Post
    Well Tank is their description lol, but we do enough DPS to tank with it alone so I would say on average we do higher DPS then a Guard and if you really pushed for it you can do higher ST DPS than a champ, but keep in mind a Champ is not top of the list for ST DPS either. It's just with them being a melee class people tend to pick them to compare to us, but champs shine more with their AoEs.
    I wouldn't say that, champ ST DPS is great, and could easily be tops in ST DPS. Don't have enough information to say for sure which class has the most ST DPS, but nothing I have seen indicates it is not champs.
    [

  7. #7
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    Re: Warden DPS?

    Quote Originally Posted by ddaedelus View Post
    So pretty much Wardens are another tank class and not much better on DPS.

    Thanks for the info.
    It sounds like you will acquire the quickest road to the satisfying "fix" you are looking for, by leveling that champ up.

    Prepare to be surprised later, though, when you meet some DPS wardens and OP guards with 2hndrs, who each do some damn fine ST dmg...but with which it takes a little more build effort and skill to milk it out than it does with the champ.

    I make this suggestion respectfully, and not with attitude or judgment, just recognizing that you have chosen NOT to take steps to build-out and equip your existing lv 65 guard for this purpose.

  8. #8

    Re: Warden DPS?

    Wardens can do about the same ST DPS as a guard, but we have practically no AOE DPS and we can't sustain our damage at all (unless we have aggro and can spam DBD, which also does pretty decent damage). Like LtDiablo said we could probably do higher ST DPS than a champ with really good gear and a good gambit rotation, but keep in mind champs get +1.7k ICPR from Fervour and can restore some power every time something dies. As for guards, they get +20-30% power cost from being in OP, but have various ways they can restore their power. For wardens, the problem with DPS is in power, not damage output. Never neglect your ICPR, no matter what you're doing.
    .
    There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind, never even considered for mass production. Too wierd to live, but too rare to die. ~Hunter S. Thompson

  9. #9
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    Re: Warden DPS?

    Quote Originally Posted by head0nfire View Post
    wardens can do about the same st dps as a guard, but we have practically no aoe dps and we can't sustain our damage at all (unless we have aggro and can spam dbd, which also does pretty decent damage). Like ltdiablo said we could probably do higher st dps than a champ with really good gear and a good gambit rotation, but keep in mind champs get +1.7k icpr from fervour and can restore some power every time something dies. As for guards, they get +20-30% power cost from being in op, but have various ways they can restore their power. For wardens, the problem with dps is in power, not damage output. Never neglect your icpr, no matter what you're doing.
    qft

    1223435

  10. #10

    Re: Warden DPS?

    Quote Originally Posted by head0nfire View Post
    Wardens can do about the same ST DPS as a guard, but we have practically no AOE DPS and we can't sustain our damage at all (unless we have aggro and can spam DBD, which also does pretty decent damage). Like LtDiablo said we could probably do higher ST DPS than a champ with really good gear and a good gambit rotation, but keep in mind champs get +1.7k ICPR from Fervour and can restore some power every time something dies. As for guards, they get +20-30% power cost from being in OP, but have various ways they can restore their power. For wardens, the problem with DPS is in power, not damage output. Never neglect your ICPR, no matter what you're doing.
    So do you really think that a Warden can exceed the 600+ average DPS (vs Marauder's) it would take to match a champ? I guess it is possible but I haven't seen any evidence for it.
    [

  11. #11
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    Re: Warden DPS?

    Probably not. I'm in the boat that thinks champ dps is really high. I was in agreement with headonfire's statement about power.

    However, on a side note, I did do a little pseudo test with a champ buddy of mine. We were going to clear a large area and timed each other to see how fast we could do it. I won because I didn't have any downtime between fights once I got my morale below half health (and my dps actually went up after I went below half health from DbD damage). It was, jav, WT, US, DbD, jav, then run to the next mob and do the same thing while the sucker bled to death. I beat a hunter in the same way. Again, though, this was very situational... (the spacing of the mobs, the frequency, the lack of looting, and so on)

  12. #12

    Re: Warden DPS?

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeA View Post
    So do you really think that a Warden can exceed the 600+ average DPS (vs Marauder's) it would take to match a champ? I guess it is possible but I haven't seen any evidence for it.
    No, wardens can't.

    Listen to this guy because his parses set the bar high.
    Last edited by horus418; Oct 19 2010 at 10:31 AM.

  13. #13
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    Re: Warden DPS?

    I tanked many of the armored guards on the path to the Lt. last night in spear spec and using a dps rotation with your average everyday raid buffs (granted, that rotation included combination strike, but still...). So I would say, yes, it is possible for wardens to do pretty decent single-target dps, even in conservation stance. Here's my $0.02 on dps mode:

    Cap out on might with buffs (agility too if you can, but might is more important IMHO)
    Second age is a must
    Keep adroit maneuver up
    Keep warden's triumph up
    If you're getting stunned a lot (e.g. guldur lights), use bleeds more, if not, use them less.
    Onslaught legacy helps a little bit
    Recklessness if you're not holding aggro or for trash (legacy helps)
    [url="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/mordasha"][charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/032020000001b39f0/01008/signature.png]Mordasha[/charsig][/url]
    [url="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/isana"]Isana -- R7 65 Burglar[/url] -- [url="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/laraia"]Laraia -- R6 65 Champion[/url] -- [url="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/kathaila"]Kathaila -- R5 65 Hunter[/url]

  14. #14
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    Re: Warden DPS?

    Many of our DPS skills carry +threat, which is nice for spear tanking.
    Nerves, of the Brandywine.

  15. #15
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    Re: Warden DPS?

    Quote Originally Posted by DackRover View Post
    It sounds like you will acquire the quickest road to the satisfying "fix" you are looking for, by leveling that champ up.

    Prepare to be surprised later, though, when you meet some DPS wardens and OP guards with 2hndrs, who each do some damn fine ST dmg...but with which it takes a little more build effort and skill to milk it out than it does with the champ.

    I make this suggestion respectfully, and not with attitude or judgment, just recognizing that you have chosen NOT to take steps to build-out and equip your existing lv 65 guard for this purpose.
    No offense taken at all. I've seen various threads describing how to get high ST DPS on an OP guard, but I'm aware that by mostly soloing (and having an aversion to grinding) I'm limiting my access to the gear required to see those kinds of numbers. Which is fine. A DPS alt would mostly be just something to beat up bunny rabbits and restore a shred of ego when my guardian is feeling wimpy.

    So yes, I think you're right and that champ is really the way to go to get my quick DPS fix.

    I appreciate all the comments.
    [center]Easric (74 Warden) | Caledhir (75 Guardian) | Pennie (55 Minstrel) | Jaume (67 Hunter)
    ~/ Silverlode /~[/center]

  16. #16
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    Re: Warden DPS?

    Quote Originally Posted by ddaedelus View Post
    No offense taken at all. I've seen various threads describing how to get high ST DPS on an OP guard, but I'm aware that by mostly soloing (and having an aversion to grinding) I'm limiting my access to the gear required to see those kinds of numbers. Which is fine. A DPS alt would mostly be just something to beat up bunny rabbits and restore a shred of ego when my guardian is feeling wimpy.

    So yes, I think you're right and that champ is really the way to go to get my quick DPS fix.

    I appreciate all the comments.
    No worries man and thank you for "hearing" me as I actually intended my message to you!

  17. #17

    Re: Warden DPS?

    Yeah Champ can be a fun change jumping into the middle of things and just AoEing everything possible
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/1321300000003b62c/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    Originally Posted by [B]Graalx2 [/B]-Directed at Wardens!
    You guys!!! There is such a thing as being too efficient.

  18. #18

    Re: Warden DPS?

    Quote Originally Posted by geoboy View Post
    Warden's single target DPS is fine- but where we fall short of DPS classes is utility. Champs can move aggro around, and don't run out of power. Hunters are very sustainable, again able to keep their own power up and can drop their aggro if needed.

    RKs also have some utility skills to add. Wardens can DPS or tank, and if DPSing, usually end up tanking anyways. While I have put up nice numbers in groups, I lack the skills that support a DPS role other than the DPS skills themselves.
    lol Nerves, I find that we can't even fulfill a DPS roll properly because we'll just grab aggro without anyway to lose it... seems like our only group rolls are...

    A DPS Tank
    A Healing Tank
    A Kiting Tank
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/13213000000000866/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  19. #19
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    Re: Warden DPS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boogey383 View Post
    lol Nerves, I find that we can't even fulfill a DPS roll properly because we'll just grab aggro without anyway to lose it... seems like our only group rolls are...

    A DPS Tank
    A Healing Tank
    A Kiting Tank
    QFT
    Sometimes I get tired of tanking and would like someone else to do it.
    Last edited by Antrius; Oct 22 2010 at 10:57 AM.
    [url=http://my.lotro.com/home/character/1054335/146085512913891866/][charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0820700000010321a/signature.png]Eryndar[/charsig][/url]
    Eryndar - 75 Warden / Jadwin - 75 Minstrel / Antrius - 75 Hunter / Saelethial - 66 Champion

  20. #20
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    Re: Warden DPS?

    When do Instances, and am NOT the tank, I'll focus on one mob and take it out quick. (a ranged mob if possible) and let the guard have the rest. I end up tanking all bosses regardless. Raids of course are different because each pull is a little better planned out.
    Nerves, of the Brandywine.

  21. #21
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    Re: Warden DPS?

    When I am in as dps or off-tank, I try to be courteous to the other guard or ward as may be tanking, by steering clear of attacks that increase my own aggro, to avoid pulling any bosses. The guards and wardens I choose to run with do likewise in reverse. Its not that hard if you really try.

    I tend to err on the side of caution and make sure I place any unknown wardens in the other group during raid, to avoid any leeches from sucking from my aggro, perhaps sparked by their greatly unwarranted "inferiority complex" that unfortunately still seems to permeate at times. I have not had a problem losing aggro on a boss to a dps warden or a dps guard, and suspect it would take some intentional effort and a choice to apply aggro specific attacks and/or "taunts" for a boss to be pulled by either, a situation that could easily be avoided with the tiniest bit of added discretion being applied, as said above. Champs, imo, are far more likely to "face roll" themselves through too many shing-shings, pulling boss aggro by genuine (though stupid) accident.
    Last edited by DackRover; Oct 22 2010 at 02:48 PM.

 

 

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