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  1. #1
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    May 2009
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    Exclamation You want to know what the Warden class is? Read this.

    I've seen a bunch of threads from newer players asking about the class. What do Wardens do? Are they tanks? Can they dps, or perform other roles? Are they like Class-X from MMO-Y? Will I be able to get groups? The proliferation of these threads has convinced me to finally write this post I've been contemplating for months. So, if you really want to know what a Warden is...read on.


    1. Don't call me a "tank." (I know you will!)

    Can Wardens tank? Heck yeah. However, Warden-tanking is significantly harder than Guard-tanking. The complexity of our class means that the weaknesses of mediocre Warden tanks are significantly more conspicuous, leading to a misconception that Guards are better at tanking. I'd actually contend that Guardians are the only pure tanks. Just because a Ford F-150 and BMW 5-series can both carry your groceries home doesn't make them the same. Calling Wardens "tanks" makes people lump us in with Guards in a manner that dismisses the extraordinary versatility of our class.

    In a nightmarishly long and unproductive (but rhetorically interesting) thread, I once stated:

    "Regular tanking" is what Guards do. Direct line, linear, no-creativity-because-I'm-a-blunt-tanking-instrument. A Warden is a tanking artiste with a multitude of colors on his palette.
    With all due respect to the many fine Guardian players out there who get their job done, and done well, Wardens do much more than just tank, and when we tank, we tank with style. But if you decide to tank with your Warden, the opportunities you'll get were earned by those before you, so do them proud!


    2. "Advanced class" means there's no cruise control.

    Yeah, we're an advanced class. What does that mean? It means that, in order to get the utmost out of the class, you need to pay attention! Wardens aren't relaxing to play. Wardens aren't easy to play. Wardens aren't simple to figure out. If you sign up to play one, you sign up for a challenge. Read the forums, learn your gambits, keep your eye on the ball. Here are some basic goals that a complete Warden player should be able to handle at end-game:

    1. Take the biggest, baddest Elite Master mob you can find and solo it.
    2a. See that end-game instance? Tank it.
    2b. See that end-game instance? DPS it.
    2c. See that end-game instance? Crowd-control it.
    2d. See that end-game instance? Heal it.
    3. I'm not joking.
    4. Find 8+ on-level mobs, group 'em up, and take 'em down. Alone.
    5. Be in a fellowship when someone screws something up really, really badly and everyone starts yelling "we're so dead" or "drop group! drop group!" and calmly step up, put your fellowship on your shoulders, and carry them through the fire like it's something you do every day...because it is.
    6. Do two or three or all of 2a through 2d simultaneously.
    7.
    I'm still not joking.



    3. What's with the 'tude?

    You may have noticed - there's a bit of an attitude that goes with being an accomplished Warden...or "Waden." Well, there's kind of an attitude that goes with every class. But players of all classes joke about Warden players. And it IS funny how much we love our class. What it really comes down to is this: we've climbed the highest peak and seen the view. And until you've stood where we have, you have no idea how truly wide the horizon is. I'm not sure I can sum it up better than that.


    4. But what the heck does a Warden actually do?

    I've said it before, and I'll say it again...Wardens do a little bit of this and a little bit of that and turn it into a whole lot of awesome. So, if you want to be a tank, be a tank. You want to dps...dps. You want to perform a role in a group, practice that role, become excellent, and then run that way in the face of stubborn public perception until they say," I didn't know a Warden could do that." Don't let anyone tell you what your Warden does. You. Tell. Them.

    Just do it nicely. We're all here to have fun, after all.
    Last edited by Colred; Oct 02 2010 at 07:25 AM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d000000172e7e/signature.png]Colred[/charsig]
    [url=http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=329590]The Warden: Your Fellowship's Enigmatic All-Star.[/url]

  2. #2
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    Dec 2007
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    144

    Re: You want to know what the Warden class is? Read this.

    There's one thing you can't do with a Warden: split your time with other classes and expect to be good. Remembering all those gambits and keeping your timing tuned requires nearly constant dedication. I've play everything but Min and Burg, and the Warden's the only class I have trouble getting back into after being gone a while.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0b20c00000007f807/01001/signature.png]Dolgrath[/charsig]

    "You have no friends yet."

  3. #3
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    Re: You want to know what the Warden class is? Read this.

    I get everything you wrote and I'm new to this game, but what I just don't get is the ranged aspect. I can't get a feel. I mean do I pull guys all over the map throwing spears when the gambits are melee (so far, only 10) ?

    Will I be using all these gambits throughout the game or just a few? It's a little confusing and I can see myself running out of keybinds with the atttacks too.

    maybe if you can explain to someone new, or just starting this class, how exactly they should be fighting in a solo situation?

    Do I use all the gambits?
    Do I throw the spear and try to kite as much as possible?
    How do you describe a typical encounter with a group of monsters?

    I really want to play this thing, but it's a bit difficult so far. My paladin in DDO could stand in the middle of everything and live and I was soloing raids at the end so I am used to that. In CoV I play Brutes mostly and again can fight like 40 guys at once without dying. I'm trying to understand what the developers had in mind with LOTRO and this Warden class so I can play it right. I adapt once I understand. Right now I am still stuck on understanding.

    I keep seeing trait messages too but none for the ones I want to use. I'm unsure what to do. I read a lot of the forums here but some posts are older and then in the game I am seeing other wardens doing things that contradict the posts. So any help would be appreciated. You seem to have a way with explaining things. I don't know the LOTRO slang yet so a lot of posts are throwing me off. If this thing uses ranged often I saw hunters having more fun. Unless the spear is just to pull guys to you , then you go melee on them... and right now I have every gambit they offered at the trainer. I just use whatever so far.

  4. #4
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    Re: You want to know what the Warden class is? Read this.

    Very good post.
    So if I understand it right, I can, with my warden, trait in spears, practice my DPS gambits, specialize on DPS, and getting the job done in a group doing this. Plus, while being an effective DPS, I get to do many other things to help my group.
    I can realy be that? People won't laugh at me? Or at least if they laugh, I can realy show em?

  5. #5
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    Re: You want to know what the Warden class is? Read this.

    Quote Originally Posted by HauteClaire View Post

    Do I use all the gambits?
    Do I throw the spear and try to kite as much as possible?
    How do you describe a typical encounter with a group of monsters?
    -No, some gambit are for a particular purpose: interrupts, self-HoTs, buffs, corruption removal, etc. These should be used when you need them. Some gambits are weaker than others, Precise Blow is the best single-target threat gambit, making other gambits around single-target threat (like the longer versions of Precise Blow) not worth using.

    -There are times to kite, but melee is our main form of combat

    -Solo: Keep EoB and Fierce Resolve (the morale leeches over time) going and use Resolution (instant morale leech) in-between, if the number is greater than 3 or 4. If less, I usually single-target them down. Group: I rotate through my AE threat gambits: EoB, Conviction, Defiant Challenge, and WarCry, with buffs like Shield Mastery if needed, or a Precise Blow if one gets away from me.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a000000237e4a/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    Keth(65 Warden), Tula(65 Hunter), Az(Champ and Warden), Ghaele(Cpt), Mahlya(Burg), Shilly(RK), Byrena(Guard), Kahnya(LM), Naht(Mini), Rea(Burg), and others
    Alt problem? *twitch* I ain't got no Alt problem! I can stop any time!

  6. #6
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    Re: You want to know what the Warden class is? Read this.

    Before I answer particular questions, let me re-emphasize something first: There's no single "right" way to play a Warden. That being said, I'll try to answer questions based on my experience. If I get enough good questions, I may put them together into a FAQ.

    Quote Originally Posted by HauteClaire View Post
    I get everything you wrote and I'm new to this game, but what I just don't get is the ranged aspect. I can't get a feel. I mean do I pull guys all over the map throwing spears when the gambits are melee (so far, only 10) ?
    Javelins are mostly for 2 situations: Pulling, and doing burst ranged dps on a mob you can't close to melee distance with (maybe if you're rooted, or a mob is running away).

    Will I be using all these gambits throughout the game or just a few? It's a little confusing and I can see myself running out of keybinds with the atttacks too.
    I'd say, at the end game, I still use about %80 of all the gambits possible, if not more. You shouldn't run out of keybinds. Remember, the gambit system only requires 4 keys - 3 for your builders, and 1 for your gambit execution.

    maybe if you can explain to someone new, or just starting this class, how exactly they should be fighting in a solo situation?

    How do you describe a typical encounter with a group of monsters?
    For fighting a single mob, I generally Ambush to start, then run in and pound on it. The tougher the mob, the more defensive gambits I use. Spear traits and gambits are for dps-ing through weaker mobs. Mix in shield traits and gambits to survive tougher mobs. Fist gambits are for generating threat while grouping. You probably won't use the fist traits much.

    I'm trying to understand what the developers had in mind with LOTRO and this Warden class so I can play it right. I adapt once I understand. Right now I am still stuck on understanding.
    May I direct your attention to the top of the page. There is no one single way to play this class, and there is no short cut to learning about it. Reading the forums is a good start, so you're already ahead of the game. The rest is a lot of trial and error. In the most simple terms, Warden is about survival through adaptation. Learn your foes strengths and weaknesses, and then design a plan to your best advantage. If things go wrong, adapt a new plan on the fly. You have the tools to do and be so much, the challenge is always picking the right tool for the job at hand.

    I keep seeing trait messages too but none for the ones I want to use. I'm unsure what to do.
    Complete every trait deed you can as quickly as possible. Even if that means spamming Precise Blow 50 times in a row when you don't need to. Your traits are not only helpful individually, but when you slot multiple traits in the same line, you get additional bonuses. Don't neglect your traits, or you'll pay the price later. The super-short cheat-sheet: Way of the Spear for dps/soloing. Way of the Shield for survival/tanking.

    Quote Originally Posted by lionrad
    Very good post.
    So if I understand it right, I can, with my warden, trait in spears, practice my DPS gambits, specialize on DPS, and getting the job done in a group doing this. Plus, while being an effective DPS, I get to do many other things to help my group.
    I can realy be that? People won't laugh at me? Or at least if they laugh, I can realy show em?
    People will laugh, and scoff, and turn you down for groups or try to tell you how to play your class until and unless you prove them wrong. It's part of what makes a Warden tough to play in groups. There are two reasons for this. First, most people who play the Warden class make it as an alt. As Orca11 stated, it's hard to play Warden well if you're not wholly dedicated to it. Second, the skills used in soloing are often very different than the skills used in grouping. Since it's so much easier to solo as a Warden, many players don't bother to learn how to effectively group. Our reputation suffers because of it.

    You'll find that most of the good Wardens you talk to will have a similar story: no one we run with realized how good a Warden could be until they ran with us. There are just too few players committed to mastering the class and then willing to fight through the negative perception. That perception has changed slowly, but Warden is still the class the faces the most skepticism from players of other classes. But that means you have a chance of being one of the 10-20 truly great Warden players on your server, and help change the way our class is perceived as a whole, and that's pretty stellar.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d000000172e7e/signature.png]Colred[/charsig]
    [url=http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=329590]The Warden: Your Fellowship's Enigmatic All-Star.[/url]

  7. #7
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    Re: You want to know what the Warden class is? Read this.

    What an uber-post. This goes into my bookmarks of all-time best threads. Nicely put, Colred!

    Colred: I'd appreciate if you'd contrast your experience with red line v. blue line on traits. Normally I trait blue line for survivability, but lately I've put my toe into the waters of all red line to raise my dps. What do you chose to trait, when, and why?
    Last edited by BINKLEY1; Oct 02 2010 at 02:49 PM. Reason: Question for Colred

  8. #8
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    Re: You want to know what the Warden class is? Read this.

    Excellent post. I am rather fortunate that my kin has several warden players, so we get to bounce ideas off of each other quite frequently.

    One of my favorite moments happened last week. We were running 16th hall to finish a class quest, so we decided to just to run the whole thing. There were 2 wardens, a LM, a Captain, a RK, and a mini. We were in the second room full of orcs. The other warden and I decided to put up FR and EoB and then spam conviction as the RK pulled groups to us. After the room was clear, our mini says over vent, "You know...I barely had to heal, so I just jumped into Warspeech after about 30 seconds."

    Lately we've been trying some different tactics. I usually trait shield and he usually traits spear, but I've been giving spear a try. Not sure if I'm a full convert, but it is fun seeing how much more damage I can put out.

    Edit: You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Colred again. =(
    Last edited by flabajaba; Oct 02 2010 at 03:39 PM.
    By Jove, I am not covetous for gold, Nor care I who doth feed upon my cost.
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  9. #9

    Re: You want to know what the Warden class is? Read this.

    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Colred again.

    Great post Colred. I think you pretty much hit the bullseye with this thread. If I had never played my warden before and was thinking about rolling one, reading this would definitely make me play one.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/012030000000be8eb/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    [color=yellow][I]There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. A high-powered mutant of some kind, never even considered for mass production. Too wierd to live, but too rare to die.[/I][/color] ~Hunter S. Thompson

  10. #10
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    Re: You want to know what the Warden class is? Read this.

    Even within the role of tanking, there are several ways to go about it.
    -Shield line heal-tanking (threat is largely threat transfer based)
    -Fist line AoE tanking using desolation as a CC and damage reduction tool
    -Spear line DPS tanking if there are more than enough heals, or if your heals do not scale well with the content.

    My favorite thing to do is to take a very hairy situation and just roll with it. Due to the Gambit system, we are not restricted by cooldowns like other classes, and so all of our tanking tools are available to us all the time, which is GREAT!
    Nerves, of the Brandywine.

  11. #11
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    Re: You want to know what the Warden class is? Read this.

    This thread NEEDS to be stickied. This is so far the best all-encompassing warden guide I've seen.

    And +Rep for linking to An Irreverent LOTRO-Player Psychological Profile
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  12. #12
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    Re: You want to know what the Warden class is? Read this.

    Quote Originally Posted by geoboy View Post
    which is GREAT!
    lol, tony the tiger reference. I know i'm pointing out the obvious... but i still found it funny.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0820700000012ed2b/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  13. #13

    Re: You want to know what the Warden class is? Read this.

    *Stickied*
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/1321300000003b62c/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    Originally Posted by [B]Graalx2 [/B]-Directed at Wardens!
    You guys!!! There is such a thing as being too efficient.

  14. #14
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    Re: You want to know what the Warden class is? Read this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orca11 View Post
    There's one thing you can't do with a Warden: split your time with other classes and expect to be good. Remembering all those gambits and keeping your timing tuned requires nearly constant dedication. I've play everything but Min and Burg, and the Warden's the only class I have trouble getting back into after being gone a while.
    That's very much a YMMV issue. It could be argued that if the gambits aren't permanently seared into your soul, you haven't lost your R yet.

    I've played every class, and I wander off to do non-lotro things for months at a time. There's always a brief period of reading all the tooltips to remind myself of what does what, but getting back into the rhythm of warden is always the easiest.

    For me, the hardest part is that warden was the first class I took to cap - everything else feels so squishy in comparison.

    The second hardest part is that I keep trying to build gambits on my minstrel - not any of my other alts, just the minstrel.

  15. #15
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    Re: You want to know what the Warden class is? Read this.

    I have a few comments.

    Please keep in mind that my first toon was a Guard back in 2007; I leveled this guard to 50 and tanked rift an uncountable number of times, I then leveled this toon to 60 w/ MoM and ran DN multiple times before even starting a Warden. My second toon was a Champ that I started in early 2008; same deal, multiples DN runs before even trying Warden.

    I don't play my guard or champ very often, and only when begged to do so. I can do much of what I can do with either the guard or champion with my warden, plus much more.

    So, the question is...why do Warden's get such a bad rep?

    To put it lightly, Warden is a very advanced class and most players, although leveling a warden to 65, never learn the subtleties of a Warden well enough to play one well. I've come to this conclusion by talking to my 5+ kinnies who have 65 Warden's and still can't play them well. They do silly things like try to rely on macros (G11 keyboard) to play the class for them, then wonder why they have trouble with the class......

    I can't tell you how many time's I've heard things like "My Warden takes too long to build gambits" (seriously learn to use your masteries) "My Warden always runs out of power" (really? try putting some points into will/fate instead of minimaxing might&agil) "My Warden can't get agro" (well then you aren't using the right gambits) and "My Warden dies to easy" (shield line anyone?)

    The other classes in LoTRO follow a pretty standard protocol (this might be an over simplification)

    1. Level the toon
    2. Get new skills from leveling, slap those on your skill bar
    3. Learn what those skills do and use them.

    However, Warden's go more like:

    1. Level the toon
    2. Get gambits from leveling, which never show up on your skill bar (some of which may easily be forgotten due to lack of being on the skill bar)
    3. Memorize the builder combinations to execute the gambit
    4. Get your masteries, which complicates the whole "combinations" deal (because w/ masteries you now have 9 builders)
    5. Develop muscle memory so that you can build gamits quickly. This also requires a lot of "key-mapping" to make it work (I use the numpad 1-9 for masteries/builder, 0 to execute, . for recovery)
    6. Learn how to execute complicated gambits AND move at the same time w/o being able to use your mouse (unless you have 3 hands)
    7. Learn to deal w/ the fact that lag can really throw a wrench in the works when building gambits

    In essecnce, what do I see as the difference betwen guardian and warden (being a long-time guardian player)

    Guardian is simple. Its a button masher that requires a little additional technique (moving around to get agro, using target's-target to see who the mob is agroed on, running to the aid of screeching minis). Guardians also get a lot of single button clickies to snap agro up and build it (challenge, litany, harraser).

    Warden's on the other hand are just flat out complicated. You don't get easy clickies to snap up agro, nothing is one button, and in general you get hit harder.

    So why play a Warden?
    1. You want a challenge
    2. You want a class that as you level makes you think about more than "where should I place my new skill at on the skillbar?"
    3. You want to keep it intersting (versatility)
    4. You like melee
    5. You aren't going to get mad if you currently get turned down from groups because they want a guardian instead. Its not your fault personally, it is the fault of the mass of people who don't know how to play their warden. If you get a good consistent group that you play with they will ALWAYS want your warden over a guard (cept on 12 mans, you'll be the corruption removal guy instead).

    When not to play a Warden
    1. You just want to be able to click a skill and have it go off
    2. You don't want to "remember all those gambit" and develop muscle memory in order to build them without looking at keys
    3. You want to play a ranged class. Wardens are NOT a ranged class
    4. You don't want a challenge
    5. You want to play a Dwarf

  16. #16

    Re: You want to know what the Warden class is? Read this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sneezer View Post
    5. Develop muscle memory so that you can build gamits quickly. This also requires a lot of "key-mapping" to make it work (I use the numpad 1-9 for masteries/builder, 0 to execute, . for recovery)
    6. Learn how to execute complicated gambits AND move at the same time w/o being able to use your mouse (unless you have 3 hands)
    I recently switched to using the number pad for my builder grid, but I'm a mouselook addict, so losing that felt like a huge step backwards for me.

    So here's what I did: I bound Shift+the grid under my left hand to the builder grid. So Q is the same skill as numpad 7, W is the same skill as numpad 8, and on down to C being numpad 3. Then I moved my javelin skills (which I'd traditionally had on Control+number line) to Shift+number line, and presto, Shift becomes combat mode. I can mouselook and mouse-run in combat, and if I need to do more complex movement, I release Shift and I'm back in movement mode. It's the best of both worlds in many ways, and is the best setup I've yet found.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a0000001e81f5/01003/signature.png]Cuchullain[/charsig]

  17. #17

    Re: You want to know what the Warden class is? Read this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orca11 View Post
    There's one thing you can't do with a Warden: split your time with other classes and expect to be good. Remembering all those gambits and keeping your timing tuned requires nearly constant dedication. I've play everything but Min and Burg, and the Warden's the only class I have trouble getting back into after being gone a while.

    I agree that when you start a Warden, don't jump around levelng other classes. The gambits are not difficult to learn. Newer gambits are just built on earlier gambits and are just upgrades. Inurrupts all start with The Boot, leeches start with Fierce Resolve, self heals start with Preserve, aggro leech start with Maddening Strike, three gambits with threat over time starts with a Fist.

    This may seem like a lot but in reality you have only 7 to 8 gambits since more advanced gamits are just upgrades.

    The hard part is when you get your masteries, you have to re-learn gambit building at that point.

  18. #18
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    Re: You want to know what the Warden class is? Read this.

    I see a whole lot of words in this thread stating the obvious. The warden, like any other class, is what you make of it. Versatility in any class is simply a matter of skill and creativity, with the ability to think outside the box.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/082070000000f6847/signature.png]Balawise[/charsig]
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  19. #19
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    Re: You want to know what the Warden class is? Read this.

    As a relatively new player to LoTRO and the Warden Class, this both serves as an inspiration as well as a guide to help me chug on with my Warden.

    While I love playing the Warden, more so then the Guardian, Champion or Captain, I sometimes do look o'er the fence and can't help but wonder if the grass IS greener on the other side, even when I have tried playing around with those other classes before!

    So thank you all for feeding my hunger for more information about the Warden, as well as telling me "It ain't always a bright and sunny day lass, but keep at it and you'll see!" with the following wink and bright warm smile!

  20. #20
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    Re: You want to know what the Warden class is? Read this.

    Quote Originally Posted by ppinkham View Post
    I see a whole lot of words in this thread stating the obvious. The warden, like any other class, is what you make of it. Versatility in any class is simply a matter of skill and creativity, with the ability to think outside the box.
    You make a good point, ppinkham; one that is true yet incomplete. Yes, the most skilled players within any class population will exhibit greater versatility than the average. And those top tier players are utilizing the types of dynamic thinking and creativity that would make them excellent players of any class, Warden included. However, that's not the same as saying all classes are equally versatile.

    The versatility of a class is provided by the skills and traits which allow for a diversity of functions. For instance, no class out-heals the Minstrel. But, despite some variety of skills, Minstrels are weak at CC and downright the worst class in the game for tanking. In addition, though Minstrels can do respectable dps in War Speech, that dps comes at a cost of high power consumption, severely limiting the Minstrel's ability to heal and dps in the same fight. That's fine, though. The Minstrel class was designed as a specialist class.

    Wardens are, by design, the most versatile class. Wardens are excellent tanks, can sustain a very respectable dps, rival Captains for healing, have more interrupts than any other melee class, and even have a few very useful CC skills, most of which are spammable. In addition, it's possible for a Warden to perform most or all of these functions in the same fight, and even swap between skills on the fly.

    This complexity requires a more active participation by a Warden player to be merely adequate, much less very good, at his/her class. The upshot of all of this is that there are actually very few "adequate" Wardens. You are either very, very good, or fairly horrible. This is not nearly as true of other classes, and this is the central point this post is trying to make. If you choose to play Warden, you should understand ahead of time that it's the hardest class to play well and the easiest class to play poorly, and the inherent complexity is why. But there are substantial rewards if you decide to make the effort to master the class.
    Last edited by Colred; Oct 06 2010 at 11:22 AM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d000000172e7e/signature.png]Colred[/charsig]
    [url=http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=329590]The Warden: Your Fellowship's Enigmatic All-Star.[/url]

  21. #21
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    289

    Re: You want to know what the Warden class is? Read this.

    Quote Originally Posted by BINKLEY1 View Post
    What an uber-post. This goes into my bookmarks of all-time best threads. Nicely put, Colred!

    Colred: I'd appreciate if you'd contrast your experience with red line v. blue line on traits. Normally I trait blue line for survivability, but lately I've put my toe into the waters of all red line to raise my dps. What do you chose to trait, when, and why?
    Binkley, I'm sorry, I somehow missed your question. I'll try to make up for it now.

    Like you, I generally trait blue line for survivability, but that's a vague and incomplete answer. Blue is also a completely viable dps build, depending on your group make up. For anything except BG and DN, I can trait blue and main heal the run. That basically means that I free up an extra spot for dps. I love to do this with RKs. While I don't put out as much dps personally, the dps an RK can pump out is so much greater than what I could add by traiting spear. In addition, the RKs can still drop their "do not falls." This is a powerful combination in places like SG.

    Typically, in SG, I prefer to run with an RK "healer." The fire and lightning mitigation makes the first two bosses easy - I can melee the lightning boss for the entirety of phase II. Then for Goro, the RK can go max dps until about 60k, swap one time to drop the big heals, and swap back. I'm the only one with healing aggro for most of the fight, so no one else even gets hit, and the fight is over so fast, it's almost silly. With a captain or burg in the mix, the RK will never even have to swap for that one heal.

    It may seem strange to call the blue line a dps line, but Warden players should not look at their dps the same way other classes do. Despite our soloing reputation, we're perhaps the class most suited to adding fellowship utility. The best tanks (regardless of class) quickly realize that everyone in a Fellowship has to contribute to aggro management in some fashion. The tank's job is not to completely control the aggro, but to manage the entire fellowship's aggro optimally. The same is true for healing. Likewise, dps is a group statistic, not an individual's. If you can raise the total group dps by lowering your own...well, that's a dps build.

    I generally trait spear line when I have a minstrel healer, no LM or Burg in my group, or mobs that stun/daze/fear a lot. Spear line is not much less survivable than Shield line. Your buffs are the same, your leeches grab the same aggro. The only major difference is that you'll require someone else to heal both you and the group more. Since you can dps more efficiently in Spear line than Minstrels can in WS, that's an easy combo to see. However, even with an RK healer, if you have mobs that have a lot of special attacks, the best tactic is often "Champ tanking," i.e. kill them before they kill you. The spear line is also the most power efficient, so for instances that don't require max survivability, I trait spear for pure speed purposes.

    In raids, I generally trait blue with only one captain. I trait red with two cappies. It's not quite that simple, but it's close.
    Last edited by Colred; Oct 06 2010 at 07:01 PM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d000000172e7e/signature.png]Colred[/charsig]
    [url=http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=329590]The Warden: Your Fellowship's Enigmatic All-Star.[/url]

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    140

    Re: You want to know what the Warden class is? Read this.

    You know why i have a couple of wardens? They are fun. You guys are making wardens way too technical, and complicated. Maybe I'm just not an obsessive player. I use an X-Box controller and a mouse to play the game.

  23. #23

    Re: You want to know what the Warden class is? Read this.

    Worst

    Waden

    EVER

    erm, hi col ....

    /hips
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d00000001afe5/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    "For those who don't build, must burn"
    The Immoveable Stone in your World of Weak
    Constantly Consuming, Conquer and Devour
    Awesome drips off me like Gatorade-colored UBER

  24. #24

    Re: You want to know what the Warden class is? Read this.

    Thanks for the great post, Colred. I played a Warden a few years ago, but re-rolled one recently to re-learn how it works. It's fun for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Colred View Post
    ... have more interrupts than any other melee class
    No offense, but IMHO that's not true. Wardens are decent at interrupting, but burgs are far better. Addle slows inductions and interrupts (even at range - though Wardens can now do that with the new Javelin gambit builder); Startling Twist (which is an AoE stun); Riddle (another great ranged interrupt); Confound (traited properly), and up to five FM-openers (which not only interrupt inductions, but also scripted events).

    My burg can easily interrupt better than my Warden or my Champion - though I like how my Warden can spam interrupts without too long between uses (battle memory helps), and I like how my Champ can instantly AoE interrupt with a horn (nice in some cases).

    Burgs and Wardens are actually quite similar though - by far my two favorite classes. If you play a Warden, and haven't tried a burg, you should - and vice versa.
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  25. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    St Louis Mo
    Posts
    1,999

    Re: You want to know what the Warden class is? Read this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg View Post
    Thanks for the great post, Colred. I played a Warden a few years ago, but re-rolled one recently to re-learn how it works. It's fun for sure.



    No offense, but IMHO that's not true. Wardens are decent at interrupting, but burgs are far better. Addle slows inductions and interrupts (even at range - though Wardens can now do that with the new Javelin gambit builder); Startling Twist (which is an AoE stun); Riddle (another great ranged interrupt); Confound (traited properly), and up to five FM-openers (which not only interrupt inductions, but also scripted events).

    My burg can easily interrupt better than my Warden or my Champion - though I like how my Warden can spam interrupts without too long between uses (battle memory helps), and I like how my Champ can instantly AoE interrupt with a horn (nice in some cases).

    Burgs and Wardens are actually quite similar though - by far my two favorite classes. If you play a Warden, and haven't tried a burg, you should - and vice versa.
    Dude, you pulled up a necro post from 18 months ago.. yeah.. a ton has changed since Colred retired. New dev, revamps on so many skills I cant count. Notice his arden is still level 65.

 

 
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