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  1. #101

    Re: Foreclose on player homes already!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Smorgheim View Post
    I think that is what EQ2 did. I never played it but the houses in city's were all available, and just instanced to whoever owned it (or had permissions).

    Anarchy Online did the same thing with apartments, but player built cities were actually claimed land, which was kind of cool.
    In EQ2 the housing is instanced. Housing is placed inside of towns and accessed through doors. You can search through a listing on each door to find the owner whose house you wish to visit. There is no limit to the number of characters that can own the same address.

    Also, unlike LoTRO where player housing is a complete joke, player housing serves an actual purpose in EQ2: you can sell items directly from your house so that players can avoid paying the Broker tax, which can be pretty heavy on really valuable items.
    The emperor has no clothes.

  2. #102
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    Re: Foreclose on player homes already!!!

    That's not a bad idea. Perhaps when I get a chance I will hit up every house in my neighborhood to see just how many are abandoned. I do know that the houses to either side of mine have been locked and unchanged since the day I moved into mine (which was well over a year and a half ago). F2P has arrived and neither yard has changed, but I'll have to check to see if they are still locked out, which would indicate that EVEN with f2p they chose not to return.

    I do pine for the excitement I would have if a NEW neighbor moved in. Once I saw the yard change I'd check to see if it was a new neighbor, send them a nice Welcome to the Neighborhood mail, and house warming gift. Of course that can never happen as it stands, since those houses will be abandoned indefinitely, and my road will remain ever lonely.

    I am also an advocate for allowing people to buy housing in the various towns and settlements, behind any (and many) of the NUMEROUS doors in these places. They could be called 'premium' housing due to their convienient locality, cost more to own per sq. ft. of interior space, but have no yard to decorate. I'm still up-in-the-air as to whether individual doors could lead to multiple owners residences (maybe if it was an apt building type residence). If only a single person could 'own' that door, then the pricing would have to be REALLY steep, quick foreclosure implemented, and perhaps that person could then decorate area around the door in some fashion (like putting up a door hanging).
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  3. #103
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    Re: Foreclose on player homes already!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Budderfur View Post
    Also, unlike LoTRO where player housing is a complete joke,
    Why is it a "joke" here? I think it's fine. Maybe there are some features that other games have, but that doesn't reduce this to a mere joke. I know many features some players have asked for either will not work well in this game or setting, or were avoided specifically. Ie, they did not want to put crafting areas in housing specifically because they felt it would reduce the need for players to go to towns.

    The housing we have has these nice features:
    - Nice to look out, they fit into the lore and world well
    - A nice place to hang out and role play, hold parties, both in the house and areas within the homesteads
    - A place to put your trophies
    - A place to customize and add some individuality
    - Discounts on services by owning a home

    Features we don't have and may not need:
    - bonuses for gaming like stat boosts. (seriously I heard a player say they missed that about our housing which seems weird to me)
    - Build anything you want in any shape
    - Mega mansion status symbols
    - Player built cities

  4. #104
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    Re: Foreclose on player homes already!!!

    No special treatment.

    Burn their houses down and auction off their stuff. That's what they get for not being hardcore.

  5. #105

    Re: Foreclose on player homes already!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by aethelberht View Post
    ...
    Here's a thought. When enough houses in a neighborhood get locked, two or three of them should catch fire, ruffians should be pulling copper out of another few, and one lone guy should be peering out the window of another one, a la "Night of the Living Dead." I'd visit that neighborhood.
    I LOVE this idea. But let's give Turbine some incentive: put "Housing Instance Ruffians" into the LOTRO Store. You can unleash them on any house owned by someone that hasn't logged on in 6+ months. They then do the things you describe, and after a few days the house is back on the market.

    I would pay a LOT of Turbine Points to do that.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/06203000000062b16/signature.png]Eldrenath[/charsig]

  6. #106
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    Re: Foreclose on player homes already!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by scrumtrelescent View Post
    I LOVE this idea. But let's give Turbine some incentive: put "Housing Instance Ruffians" into the LOTRO Store. You can unleash them on any house owned by someone that hasn't logged on in 6+ months. They then do the things you describe, and after a few days the house is back on the market.

    I would pay a LOT of Turbine Points to do that.
    LOL! Thanks for my first laugh of the day! I really dig that idea! "Send in the Brigands with the torches!!!"

    Seriously tho, I would love to be able to buy a house in the same neighborhood (instance) as my kin house. I actually went and checked EVERY other house in there and ALL of them except our kinhouse and 1 house owned by a kinnie are "Closed due to failure to pay upkeep". That just doesn't sit well with me.

  7. #107
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    Re: Foreclose on player homes already!!!

    Considering escrow only last 30 days, there needs to be some changes.

    The only way I would even consider them to allow foreclosure is if they put the items in a special bank account that did not expire in 30 days. It sure in the heck would not be fun to come back and find out all your stuff is gone and you could never get it back.

    We also need to ability to sell our houses back. This would fix tons of stuff.

    They should go through, first and all the folks who have permabans with houses foreclosed on them, as those folks are never coming back.

    They need to fix escrow first to last longer than the current 30 days, then you could foreclose, and then only after a 6 month stretch of non play.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000000310b/01003/signature.png]Isest[/charsig]

  8. #108
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    Re: Foreclose on player homes already!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeowyrm View Post
    /sigh

    Time to go into "Listen here young punk" mode

    Clearly you weren't around when this decision was made. I was, as were many others. Fact is, there were a number of posts from military members complaining at losing their homes due to being on active duty. This was during the height of the Iraq conflict mind you, when going overseas for a "few months" could turn into "a few years". There were factions that disputed it then, and have done so since, but Turbine, at the time, chose to do it this way, primarily in honor of the duty the military was doing. I honestly believe if it hadn't been so many vocal military members, it may not have happened. But there it is, and we're probably stuck with it.

    And seriously. Learn some respect for the military. It's your very freedom to post **** like that that they fight to protect.
    Then maybe its time to set aside some housing areas specifically for military personell.

  9. #109
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    Re: Foreclose on player homes already!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by BellusDuFenna View Post
    You know, there is another solution to this which might make things a little better, but still preserve the locked houses for their current owners.

    NPCs.

    From what I've seen, a lot of players complain that their neighborhoods are "dead", because they are filled with locked properties, so they seem like ghost towns. Well, one solution to that would be for NPCs to spawn at any house locked for an extended amount of time. These NPCs would just wander around the property, maybe sleep in a hammock or start a little garden there, and could be talked to briefly if approached (probably saying something to the effect of them being Caretakers for the property, or long-lost cousins of the owner). When the owner returns and unlocks the property, the NPCs disappear.

    In this way, active players would be helped in two ways:

    1) Their neighborhoods would have some activity, even if it is just NPCs for the most part, and thus not seem so barren.

    2) If, while looking to buy a home, you see lots of spawned NPCs, you would have a clear indication that this neighborhood doesn't have many active players, or has none at all. that would give them a fair warning not to buy in that neighborhood, if they wanted to own a home in an active neighborhood.

    I am completely against taking away locked homes from old players, and now that the game is F2P, those players could return at any time to unlock those houses, making the idea of just taking them away a really bad one. Turbine wants to entice the old players to come back, and taking away those player's old houses would not be very welcoming, now would it?

    Just saying.
    Now that is an excellent idea.

  10. #110
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    Re: Foreclose on player homes already!!!

    Total noob here but since I've owned a house I've yet to see any houses with "Locked" signs or "Forclosed" signs. I've also yet to see any of my neighbors. Everytime I go to my house to put up some new decoration or get something out of the chest I'm the only one there and like everyone else (I assume) I don't stay long either. I get done what I need to then back out into the world.

    So If seeing all these locked houses is bothering people it seems to me the mechanic doesn't really need to be changed at all. Just get rid of the signs.

    That way when you go to your neighborhood to visit your house you have no idea house houses are locked and who's aren't.

  11. #111
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    Re: Foreclose on player homes already!!!

    First thing Housing as it stands in LOTRO sucks. Has from release. It was a quick fix to forums full of people demanding housing now.

    Housing are ghost towns because other than dropping stuff into your extra vault there is NO REASON TO GO THERE!

    Want to see great housing, check out Dark Age of Camelot. Best player housing I have seen in any game and I have played most.

    But to our problem here in LOTRO over all it's a simple fix really. Idea wise anyway, coding may make it hard to do but I am sure it could be done.

    Set up the auto pay mentioned in this thread. Also have the fund box part of the housing maintenance so you can set it up to have people add funds to it just like you can let people pay your rent now.

    Let us sell them back, as mentioned in this thread. Even at 1/2 to 3/4 price it would help.

    Housing is instanced, so storage can be too. Once a house has not had rent for 6 months have all items in that house moved to storage, that never goes away. The house goes up for sell. If the player ever returns, all items are there to be picked up. If there house never sold then they could move back in for a fee and if it did sell give them 75% of the selling price to help them buy a new one.

    later
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  12. #112
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    Re: Foreclose on player homes already!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Combak View Post
    Housing are ghost towns because other than dropping stuff into your extra vault there is NO REASON TO GO THERE!
    Might help if they put the crafting stuff (work bench, forge, oven, etc...) and an auction house in each neighborhood I bet they'd be less ghost townish.

  13. #113
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    Re: Foreclose on player homes already!!!

    I would like to see Turbine do away with housing neighborhoods and have housing moved into towns. The houses would instances (as they are now) off of doors to houses in towns.

    This idea is a total ripoff from EQ2 housing, but it works and their housing system is one of the best. Moving housing to towns keeps population in towns and allows easy access to the housing. It would solve the problem of ghost town housing instances. Players could still visit and view other player and guild housing. The housing items for front yards could be moved to a back yard, which would essentially be a room off the back of the house.

    One of the negatives to this sort of housing is players and guilds can't show off their front yards to all players.
    Centuries ago, in primitive times, before the dawn of civilization, there were things that would be inconceivable to us today; such things as poverty, disease, violence, senility, and love.

  14. #114

    Re: Foreclose on player homes already!!!

    Housing the great miss....

    Why it missed?
    1) No one goes to kin house, because rarely a reason to.
    2) Houses in areas such as where you kin house is... never come up for sale...they are locked out forever...
    3) No Quick travel from Housing area to local town. (you can QT to it, but not back! >.<)
    4) Not located in main city or town, aka Bree, Rivendell, etc.. placed really far removed from where people want to be.
    5) You can't sell your house & get your money back! >.<
    6) Shared storage now removes the need to use your house chests to transfer stuff around... so pointless to use personal house chests.

    Fixing up housing:
    1) Put in button that the owner & anyone who has permission from the owner can click "on active duty" and the house will remain and follow the current rules until they return.
    2) If this button is not pushed, the house is foreclosed on & goes up for sale. All items are stored in escrow and build up a "Storage Fee" to be paid when the person returns. Meaning it could stay in escrow forever vs having the house locked out forever.

    A quick housing story.. In our Lineage days I purchased a house for the kin.. the best one it the game, right in the middle of the largest city at the time. It is where we had meetings, events, laughed, joked, had weddings (i've done quite a few), helped each other and in general just hung out while regenerating or looting our stuff. We'd have people just drop by .. while walking through the main town and say hi.. and even spend some time chatting or hunting with the team. It was a central part of getting members & sometimes just random visitors to interact with each other... this is what housing should be for.. and focused toward.

    How the Housing system worked:
    1) Auction - Buy & sell houses. (only a limited amount in each town)
    2) Place bid... keep bidding until you hopefully win.
    3) Sell house to make a profit or at least get your money back.
    4) Didn't pay your upkeep? - Goes back up for auction... you loose it...

    House cost $128,000.. had years of fun in it, hundreds of hunts & events, raffles, and great times just chatting with members.... sold it when it was my time to move on for 60 million... Gave it all to members.

    Lets get a normal auction system going... in the main towns.. none of this way out in the middle of no where stuff... or at least put in some quick travels and let those houses go back up for sale... set a time.. 3-6-12-18-24 months... and most importantly.. give people a reason to go there!

    One last idea...Get that party vendor working.. by the chairs.. Party planner NPC.. Fireworks, beer, food maybe even change the look of the area for weddings, birthdays, etc...

    *bows with much respect*

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  15. #115
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    Re: Foreclose on player homes already!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Combak View Post
    Housing are ghost towns because other than dropping stuff into your extra vault there is NO REASON TO GO THERE!
    Then why am I in a house right now with about 30 other people having a good time?

    Want to see great housing, check out Dark Age of Camelot. Best player housing I have seen in any game and I have played most.
    Why? What makes it great?

  16. #116
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    Re: Foreclose on player homes already!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord_Kismet View Post
    4) Not located in main city or town, aka Bree, Rivendell, etc.. placed really far removed from where people want to be.
    This is very much on purpose, as is not giving people lots of reasons to spend any serious time at houses. Because there are 100s of neighborhoods (and only a few thousand players on at one time), encouraging people to spend much time at their houses means a massive dilution of players from a relative handful of well-populated social centers to hundreds of tiny ones. They had that problem with Asheron's Call, and once players have those features they cannot be taken away later. In AC they tried a variety of things to get people to come back to the near-empty towns, with pretty limited success.

    Anything they do to make houses more attractive to spend lots of time at will be done very, very carefully.

    6) Shared storage now removes the need to use your house chests to transfer stuff around... so pointless to use personal house chests.
    More storage is never "pointless" IMO.

    Fixing up housing:
    1) Put in button that the owner & anyone who has permission from the owner can click "on active duty" and the house will remain and follow the current rules until they return.
    2) If this button is not pushed, the house is foreclosed on & goes up for sale.
    If you mean that someone has to keep on "activating" my house for me if I take a break from the game for 6 months (or else I'll get evicted and some other player will get my great location)... no thanks. I might be able to live with that if they let me prepay my maintenance for an entire year, though. My longest break so far has been 4 months, but I doubt I'll ever take a full year off until I'm truly done with the game. I'll at least come back to check out expansions once a year until then...

    3) Sell house to make a profit or at least get your money back.
    Ugh. No thanks. This would mean gold-sellers and other real-estate speculators would camp neighborhoods and snarf up all of the most popular properties as soon as a new neighborhood opened up, then extort ridiculous prices for them from other players.

    Khafar
    Last edited by Khafar; Oct 03 2010 at 12:45 AM.

  17. #117

    Re: Foreclose on player homes already!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Elderban View Post
    The problem is is that people that haven't played since houses were introduced still have a house sitting somewhere in a neighborhood that says "Closed due to failure to pay upkeep" and said house cannot be purchased by anyone else, so it sits there...empty...and will remain that way until Turbine fixes things or until they shut the servers down when (or if) we reach Mordor.

    Based on Turbines lack of interest in doing anything with housing since they introduced it in 2007, I am leaning towards the latter.
    Sooooo true. They implemented a housing system with a ton of potential, then did absolutely NOTHING with it. Youd think in 3 years they could have at least gotten rid of the god-awful hookpoint system.

    I personally hate housing in this game, but then I was forever spoiled by EQ2's brilliant implementation.

  18. #118

    Re: Foreclose on player homes already!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    This is very much on purpose, as is not giving people lots of reasons to spend any serious time at houses. Because there are 100s of neighborhoods (and only a few thousand players on at one time), encouraging people to spend much time at their houses means a massive dilution of players from a relative handful of well-populated social centers to hundreds of tiny ones. They had that problem with Asheron's Call, and once players have those features they cannot be taken away later. In AC they tried a variety of things to get people to come back to the near-empty towns, with pretty limited success.

    Anything they do to make houses more attractive to spend lots of time at will be done very, very carefully.

    Khafar
    Wait you are saying that the housing system is horrible because if it was good people would spend too much time in them?! Wow I never thought of it that way lolololllllllllll....

  19. #119
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    Re: Foreclose on player homes already!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Halcyon8 View Post
    I don't get it.
    If you don't log in within 6 months, why should you get to keep your house? You left the game that long, I think it's fair to say your house should be available to other responsible players who actually pay their upkeep and regularly log into the game.

    If you come back after 6 months to a year and you start complaining on the forums how your house was taken, you deserved it.
    The servers can only spawn so much space to store all the data.

    Why should a house become a lifetime trophy when the player will not play for their entire lifetime?
    I mean really, at what point will that house become available? When the servers close down and LOTRO is finished?

    Turbine please reconsider this.
    No. Just plain no. If I took a break from the game and I got punished for it, I'd never come back. Period. And YOU would stop seeing new content because I wouldn't be the only one quitting over it. All so that you can buy that house that is vacant for a time and is none of your business. You can buy the same house in another neighborhood. If you want one of MY houses, too bad. They aren't for sale. When I leave the game for awhile it is because I've been playing LOTRO since August 6th of 2006. I go through periods of burn-out and need a break. But that doesn't warrant taking my house away.

  20. #120
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    Re: Foreclose on player homes already!!!

    This thread is one of the many reasons why they need to be rid of the upkeep cost of houses. Upkeep achieves NOTHING. It doesn't force players to stay active in the game or keep housing up to date - in fact it does the exact opposite and causes casual playing owners to abandon the house; not by choice but because they don't play enough to keep paying for a house.

    The only reason anyone ever complains about a house isn't because they don't see the owner standing on the front doorstep, but because they see the sign that says "foreclosed because of lack of payment." If there was no upkeep fee, no one would see this stupid notice and no one would know whether the house is vacant or not. It would just be assumed that the house is owned and used - end of story, time to go find the same house in another neighborhood.

    The upkeep fee also does not serve as a money sink. Players with lots of money don't miss the small fee of upkeep. It doesn't affect their enormous bottom line. They remain rich. Those who can't afford it, don't pay and the house becomes vacant and closed.

    There are other reasons. Being forced to pay upkeep means that the house is not mine. Never was, never will be. In other words, I don't own a piece of the game world. That's forbidden in LOTRO for some reason, in spite of the fact that it is one of the basic rules of MMO creation "players should have the opportunity to OWN a piece of the game world (note that it doesn't say rent or lease) which gives them a vested interest in maintaining a presence in the game." The present system ENCOURAGES letting the house be closed. It discourages interest in that element, and housing is supposed to be a sandbox feature that helps keep players interested in the game. Sandbox features are usually included so that players can take a break from the daily grind of questing and killing.

    Housing upkeep does not (proven by now after three years of this sort of thread popping up) achieve any of the things that Turbine hoped it would. It does not keep players playing, it does not force players to stay in the game to keep their house, it does not fulfill the purpose of a money sink. It's just there. It is an annoyance and discourages maintaining a house. And it causes this kind of thread to pop up at least every week!

    Get rid of housing upkeep fees and most of these problems will just go away.

  21. #121
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    Re: Foreclose on player homes already!!!

    This reminds me of the 'force people to give up their names so I can have it threads'.

    New housing spawns continuously, you don't NEED to take anyone's home away.
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  22. #122
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    Re: Foreclose on player homes already!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    This is very much on purpose, as is not giving people lots of reasons to spend any serious time at houses. Because there are 100s of neighborhoods (and only a few thousand players on at one time), encouraging people to spend much time at their houses means a massive dilution of players from a relative handful of well-populated social centers to hundreds of tiny ones. They had that problem with Asheron's Call, and once players have those features they cannot be taken away later. In AC they tried a variety of things to get people to come back to the near-empty towns, with pretty limited success.

    Anything they do to make houses more attractive to spend lots of time at will be done very, very carefully.Khafar
    If I remember correctly, it wasn't so much housing as it was the marketplace that killed the cities. Though I guess guild mansions took some activity away from the cities too.

    If they were to add many more housing areas ofr active players, and make them more attractive ... and at the same time move the kin mansions to the cities ... it would probably be an overall positive.
    Last edited by Bradd; Oct 03 2010 at 11:28 AM.

  23. #123
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    Re: Foreclose on player homes already!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Cerridwen View Post
    So someone who gets called up on active duty for a year deserves to lose their house because they're unable to play at that time even though they play consistently when not on active duty?

    And how is someone 'crying on the forums' about losing their home any different from those 'crying on the forums' about Turbine not foreclosing on homes?
    ^THIS^

    This is just one of many reasons why you don't EVER take a player's house away. You don't know why a player isn't presently in the game. Maybe he is just sick of playing and needs a break for a few weeks. But maybe his mother died. Maybe a sibling died. Maybe he has been in a car wreck and is hospitalized for weeks or months. Maybe he has cancer. You don't know the reason for the absence. And you cannot take something away and expect the player to keep playing your game afterwards. This whole idea of foreclosure is a very bad idea.

    If the house did not tell you that it was closed, would you have ANY IDEA that the player is active or inactive? No.

    Turbine, if you insist on continuing with a bad idea (house upkeep fees) then for the love of god, please HIDE the status of the house from everyone but the owner. Just make all of the houses look open and used and current. Then you will stop seeing these threads. But better yet would be to just get rid of this pathetic upkeep system. It is an annoyance.

  24. #124
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    Re: Foreclose on player homes already!!!

    My suggestions for housing improvement:


    1. Remove housing instances as we have them now. Move housing to major cities or hubs via doors accessed through buildings in that town.
    2. Remove placement hooks (ie: hookless housing).
    3. Reduce the return cooldown timers on all long timer maps and housing ports to 20 minutes. Sell shorter cooldown (10 minute) maps and skills (permanent) in the store.
    4. Sell housing pets and fluff in the store.
    5. Sell additional rooms and yards for the house in the store.
    6. Sell additional storage chests in the store.
    7. Add some useful items and features to housing. This is the most difficult challenge because they need to be useful, but not detract from visiting town services.

    I also agree that Lineage and EQ2 housing is way more useful (in the case of Lineage) and very fun and well done (EQ2).
    Centuries ago, in primitive times, before the dawn of civilization, there were things that would be inconceivable to us today; such things as poverty, disease, violence, senility, and love.

  25. #125
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    Re: Foreclose on player homes already!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Bradd View Post
    If they were to add many more housing areas ofr active players, and make them more attractive ... and at the same time move the kin mansions to the cities ... it would probably be an overall positive.
    Hmmm - this is actually a good idea, but I HATE what it would do to my own situation. You see, when I bought my houses, I waited for the oppotunity to get three adjacent houses that are next to the vendor shop in the neighborhood. I own two deluxe houses (two accounts) and one Kinship House. I only use my housing for that reason. All three are adjacent to each other and adjacent to the vendor shop.

    This notion that towns are active because of crafting is false. Crafting does not make the town active. When I am crafting, I am exclusively in the crafting area - usually the michel delving one. My presence down in the town is momentary, from the time I port to the town location to the short jog to the craft area. I am in the craft area for awhile and then I PORT OUT from there. My time in town because of crafting is FAR less than my time in town to visit the shops. Keep the shops in town. Add a few scaling quest NPCs in towns. Open a bazaar in town. But you can put crafting anywhere. Crafting isn't what makes town active. The Bard, the Auction House, the Bank. Those things make the town active. And believe it or not, the mailbox. It is not always convenient to port back to your house to check the mail. The trainers are also in towns.

    No crafting is not the reason a town is busy. It is all of those other things.

 

 
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