We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Page 13 of 13 FirstFirst ... 3 9 10 11 12 13
Results 301 to 316 of 316
  1. #301
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,600

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Utopia View Post
    Funny enough, I was actually planning on removing that feature for the next version. Not due to any of the issues surrounding decursive, as, like I said - I have no issues with a UI addon that makes things easier via design. Rather, it's a combination of the following reasons:

    1) Inventory and skill/item usage (and cooldowns) isn't handled well at all via Lua currently - making 99% of the code surrounding that feature, very prone to error.

    2) The addition of much more flexibility in bar position and location allows the debuff bar to be located in a position that makes it awkward to click on. In addition, the shape of the bar if displayed on the side would create a design nightmare.

    3) The purpose of a HUD should be to display information and alert the player to important problems based on that information - making any part of it clickable goes against that purpose.

    Again, while I see the convenience of a "click to cure" setup, I feel that it would be better handled by a separate add on, instead of shoehorning it within an unrelated one.
    Not to mention those of us that have BuffBars and Palantir probably have the Palantir feature disabled while using the BuffBars one. Agreed with the HUD thing.... if we were on a touch screen display, might be a different story though....
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  2. #302

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    Not to mention those of us that have BuffBars and Palantir probably have the Palantir feature disabled while using the BuffBars one. Agreed with the HUD thing.... if we were on a touch screen display, might be a different story though....
    Oh certainly - BuffBars is excellent at what it does, and there's no way it would even make sense for me to try to compete with it via Palantir - nor do I have any desire to do so with another plugin.

    But even beyond that - there's no way of "passing on" mouse clicks to the game - so making something that generally sits in the middle of your screen clickable just has a huge potential for interfering with gameplay.

    The way I see it is that Palantir's main goal is to overcome the shortfalls of the normal UI, by placing immediate "need to know" information front and center. So while it won't track every buff or debuff - or be a replacement for a much needed raid/group frame, it should be able to give you all the information you need to fight and survive - including alerting you to dangerous situations (low health, low power, specific debuffs (i.e. "eye" debuffs), and any spells your target happens to be casting) as well as information specific to your character, such as your focus, or your attunement.

    Granted, some of this stuff is just not possible at the moment, but that is the goal and focus - and the intention I plan on showing with the next version.
    [CENTER][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/wK9A7aa.png[/IMG]

    [SIZE=1][B][COLOR=white]75[/COLOR][/B] Fourohfour | [B][COLOR=white]75[/COLOR][/B] Artemedis | [COLOR=Blue][B]60[/B][/COLOR] Whiskeytango Foxtrot | [B][COLOR=#00ca00]50[/COLOR][/B] Mistah Boombastic | [B][COLOR=#00ca00]56[/COLOR][/B] Appetizer | [B][COLOR=#a7a7a7]25[/COLOR][/B] Aggromi | [B][COLOR=blue]61[/COLOR][/B] Onepointtwentyone Gigawatts [/SIZE] [/CENTER]

  3. #303
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    Tucson, AZ
    Posts
    311

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    I agree with the OP, in that I think it would help in already established raid groups to see where improvements need to be made.

    Is it NEEDED? Nah. I just don't see anything wrong with having it as an option.
    [center][size=1][color=maroon]
    [b]Jester[/color][/b][/size]
    [/center]
    [COLOR="#707070"][B]V[/color][COLOR="#707070"]a[/color][COLOR="#696969"]n[/color][COLOR="#636363"]g[/color][COLOR="#5C5C5C"]u[/color][COLOR="#454545"]a[/color][COLOR="#2E2E2E"]r[/color][COLOR="#262626"]d[/b][/COLOR]

  4. #304
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,600

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Quote Originally Posted by Newsflash View Post
    I agree with the OP, in that I think it would help in already established raid groups to see where improvements need to be made.
    Unlike WoW, there is no Omen here.... so without some plugin to hold your hand as you learn the mechanics, a DPS meter is insanely diminished. The threat system is completely opaque to us, so there's no point in letting people fine tune DPS if you can't figure out how much threat the tank is doing. If you have someone that's cranking out the most DPS possible, they're likely to be ignoring the other aspects of their class that make the raid work, in addition to severely increasing their likelyhood of pulling agro from the tank.

    The other really big thing that DPS meters help with is timing, and since all of our auto-attacks hit, and we have a skill queue, there's no point in even using a DPS meter for timing because the game does it all for you, assuming that you're keeping the next skill in the skill queue all the time.

    For most classes, you can easily figure out the optimal skill rotation because you notice that things die faster going with rotation A vs rotation B. There's only a couple where a DPS meter would be of any use figuring it out.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  5. #305
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    4

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    No no no and no, Lotro is infinitely better without this rubbish.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/032020000001844b6/01008/signature.png]Isaklas[/charsig]

  6. #306

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    I'd love a DPS meter personally. I'm our guilds raid leader so I already have a good handle on who is pulling their weight, who is slacking etc and we have a system in place within the kin to let everyone know what they need to improve on.

    However, a DPS meter would help confirm my suspicions and prove to other raiders that what I am saying is correct. I know DPS meters dont tell the whole story and every class has multiple roles, and I dont really care on the actual DPS numbers. What I do care about is comparing people within a given fight. If hunter A has 20% more DPS than hunter B then that is useful information to know. By ignoring actual DPS numbers you remove the epeen factor but keep the useful information.

    Perhaps only make such a DPS meter / healing meter available to the raid leader?
    [CENTER][I]Formerly Jennifern, Rank 7 Captain and Raid Leader of Divine Retribution on Snowbourn[/I]
    -
    Currently awaiting the next best thing!
    [/CENTER]

  7. #307
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    2

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    NO! please do NOT allow dps-meters with LUA-scripting.
    It will destroy the spirit of the game!

    We are not in Azeroth anymore!

    I played a few years in a very successful Raid-Guild before I came to LotRO.
    Playin' a game should be FUN - not stress and hard work (updating and configure the add-ons, looking at bars and timers - and not game-graphics)
    Last edited by Baloran; Jun 17 2011 at 08:59 AM.

  8. #308
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,600

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifern View Post
    However, a DPS meter would help confirm my suspicions and prove to other raiders that what I am saying is correct. I know DPS meters dont tell the whole story and every class has multiple roles, and I dont really care on the actual DPS numbers. What I do care about is comparing people within a given fight. If hunter A has 20% more DPS than hunter B then that is useful information to know. By ignoring actual DPS numbers you remove the epeen factor but keep the useful information.
    You have to wonder, why does hunter A have more DPS than hunter B?

    Is it because hunter B is slacking, or is it because hunter B is doing non-DPS stuff that hunter A isn't doing?
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  9. #309
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,168

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    Is it because hunter B is slacking, or is it because hunter B is doing non-DPS stuff that hunter A isn't doing?
    Sometimes that is the same thing.

    Sometimes it may be because others are slacking and hunter B is "helping" them.
    e.g. not curing their own poisons or not CCing.

    If a group is struggling in an encounter this information helps the leader understand what is actually happening. A good leader should know what roles the two hunters are meant to be fulfilling, and decide whether there is an issue and if so, where.
    [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/duvi/"]Duvi[/URL]
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/04208000000038e43/01000/signature.png]Duvi[/charsig]
    [B][COLOR=RoyalBlue]Vastin[/COLOR][/B]: [I]"But whenever we take feedback on most game systems, such as character builds, economics, or [/I]especially[i] anything to do with PvP, then we are forced to read very carefully between the lines of any and all player feedback, as it is all inevitably skewed by self-investment, self-interest, and a deeply subjective viewpoint that increases in direct proportion to how long or successfully a player has occupied a particular role."[/I]

  10. #310

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    You have to wonder, why does hunter A have more DPS than hunter B?

    Is it because hunter B is slacking, or is it because hunter B is doing non-DPS stuff that hunter A isn't doing?
    like falling asleep while staring blankly at the screen hitting 1, 2 , 3, 4 1, 2, 3, 4
    [CENTER][IMG]http://i.imgur.com/wK9A7aa.png[/IMG]

    [SIZE=1][B][COLOR=white]75[/COLOR][/B] Fourohfour | [B][COLOR=white]75[/COLOR][/B] Artemedis | [COLOR=Blue][B]60[/B][/COLOR] Whiskeytango Foxtrot | [B][COLOR=#00ca00]50[/COLOR][/B] Mistah Boombastic | [B][COLOR=#00ca00]56[/COLOR][/B] Appetizer | [B][COLOR=#a7a7a7]25[/COLOR][/B] Aggromi | [B][COLOR=blue]61[/COLOR][/B] Onepointtwentyone Gigawatts [/SIZE] [/CENTER]

  11. #311
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,600

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Quote Originally Posted by slack_n_hash View Post
    If a group is struggling in an encounter this information helps the leader understand what is actually happening. A good leader should know what roles the two hunters are meant to be fulfilling, and decide whether there is an issue and if so, where.
    But that's the downside of using a DPS chart to rate performance.

    Whoever's at the top of the chart is untouchable. And if you continually go after the person at the top of the chart because they absolutely refuse to do non-DPS stuff, people stop wanting to compete for that top spot, which adversely affects group DPS, which locks the raid leader into a no-win situation.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  12. #312
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    In the van... with candy.
    Posts
    4,036

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    But that's the downside of using a DPS chart to rate performance.

    Whoever's at the top of the chart is untouchable. And if you continually go after the person at the top of the chart because they absolutely refuse to do non-DPS stuff, people stop wanting to compete for that top spot, which adversely affects group DPS, which locks the raid leader into a no-win situation.
    You mean to say that carrying inner-group/raid DPS competition out to its logical conclusion results in negative consequences for the group... which by its very nature is supposed to be a cooperative activity, not competitive?

    Say it ain't so.
    [CENTER][COLOR=DeepSkyBlue]There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs. [/COLOR] [/CENTER]

  13. #313
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Posts
    1,168

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Quote Originally Posted by Almagnus1 View Post
    But that's the downside of using a DPS chart to rate performance.

    Whoever's at the top of the chart is untouchable. And if you continually go after the person at the top of the chart because they absolutely refuse to do non-DPS stuff, people stop wanting to compete for that top spot, which adversely affects group DPS, which locks the raid leader into a no-win situation.
    I think you've chosen an extreme example. You are talking about the situation where a DPSer is told off for not doing enough non-DPS stuff.

    Most of the time they are expected to go full-on DPS, without screwing up aggro.

    Support classes are a different story, when their primary role is not DPS. Issues in fulfilling their primary role should be more obvious (lack of CC, buffs, debuffs, heals etc.), whether they are DPSing or not.
    [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/duvi/"]Duvi[/URL]
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/04208000000038e43/01000/signature.png]Duvi[/charsig]
    [B][COLOR=RoyalBlue]Vastin[/COLOR][/B]: [I]"But whenever we take feedback on most game systems, such as character builds, economics, or [/I]especially[i] anything to do with PvP, then we are forced to read very carefully between the lines of any and all player feedback, as it is all inevitably skewed by self-investment, self-interest, and a deeply subjective viewpoint that increases in direct proportion to how long or successfully a player has occupied a particular role."[/I]

  14. #314

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Obviously DPS charts and comparisons can't be used out of context but they have some definite uses.

    For example, in my guild I have two hunters. One of them is my girlfriend, the other is a long term kinnie. I have a suspicion that my girlfriend does superior DPS to the other hunter despite the other hunter having a 1st age with pure DPS legacies compared to my GF who had a 2nd age with less dps legacies.

    this suspiscion is usually born out when we do disease wing HM as my girlfriends group is virtually always ahead. However, I realise that there may be other influences at work such as personal bias (she is my girlfriend), other grp members unbalancing DPS etc etc.

    However, until I have "proof", I dont want to say anything to the other hunter. The other hunter is a very proud woman and doesnt take criticism well, and will take it even less well as she'll think im bias towards my gf. As this person isnt exactly bad, and turns up to 90% of raids I dont want to offend her. DPS meter is the solution. I dont need to know numbers, just comparisons versus the rest of the raid.


    I do get your point about its uses though. For the vast majority of the time a DPS meter is irrelevant, if the job gets done and gets done well I dont care who's doing most DPS. But, it is more information and information is the key to getting better. As raid leader I know who is doing their job and who isnt (for the most part) but if someone is doing their job AND doing more DPS than someone else with the same job, then the second person is slacking.
    [CENTER][I]Formerly Jennifern, Rank 7 Captain and Raid Leader of Divine Retribution on Snowbourn[/I]
    -
    Currently awaiting the next best thing!
    [/CENTER]

  15. #315

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    DPS meter are for DPS classes: RK and Hunter.

    You seam to fail to notice that most class in lotro have plenty of other role beside DPS.
    Cappy got to remove fear, and provide off hea.
    LM remove Disease/wound, stun, dazed, Knockback, silence effect as well as give power and debuff.
    Burg debuff and proc CJ, as well as interrupt with addle.

    What make me sick is that since F2P I see every where ppl that fail to understand their class' role and just focus on "Red" line trait spec and only spam damage...
    so many cappy just don't even bother to remove fear, when it's an instant cast spell that affect the whole fellowship, or just throw a word of courage at the tank.
    LM that fail to give power to healer or Tank and end up into wipe.

    etc.

    There is far more then just DPS in that game.

    I've been to wow for 5 years and left it when cataclysm fall upon it, I been in beta of lotro and played when moria came out, I wouldn't go back to wow even if it would become F2P.

    I fear that lotro will eventually listen to those player that wanna DiPS lenght contest, sadly most issue in group are actually failed dps who don't know to do anything else...Huntars can remove poison on tank you know?

    What will bring a DPS meter... just more of those kind of players, no thanks.

    And threat meter? well when a tank can't even manage to position himself correctly or when DPS are pulling.... threat meter won't change a thing in that.

    And when players know how to play in fellowship well there is no need neither for DPS/Threat meter, so...

    Conclusion: there is no need of it, even If I miss it from WoW ;P

    P.S.: What is needed in lotro is an option to set alerts, like: "who broke CC or who killed the mob that has to stay alive.";
    option to customized buff and debuff display size and location, the name of the buffs/debuff's source in the tooltip as is in wow and filter those needed to be displayed on self and others aswell as targets; those are far more useful to figure out who are doing there job and who aren't.
    Last edited by jeanperson; Oct 04 2011 at 11:11 AM.

  16. #316
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    1,171

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    *Boy Blunder to Stat-Man* Holy thread necro, Stat-man!

    Quote Originally Posted by jeanperson View Post
    P.S.: What is needed in lotro is an option to set alerts, like: "who broke CC or who killed the mob that has to stay alive.";
    The Alerter plugin allows you to get very obvious messages when any chat message you have set as a trigger is received - works perfectly for seeing people breaking CC and any other event that generates a chat message.

    Like any tool, a DPS meter can be used to help or be abused to cause harm. It's all up to the users to be sure to use it in a mature, constructive fashion. I personally can't stand the idea of anyone using a stat tool to humiliate or otherwise deconstructively criticise another player which is why I am a member (and current leader) of a mature, respectful kinship. If a DPS meter can help me better understand how to trait and equip my DPS classes, then it serves a good purpose.

 

 
Page 13 of 13 FirstFirst ... 3 9 10 11 12 13

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload