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  1. #1
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    Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    why?

    #1 you dont really know if your spell/skill rotation is right for max dps or healing because you dont know what your doing overall

    #2 lets just guess how much threat were doing

    #3 your in a raid, 8 people are awesome, a few are not awesome and you cant down a boss, those few awful people are dragging everyone else down and you have no idea thats what the problem is

    thats just a few reasons.. Ive heard what most people that play this game say, like "we dont want to be wow" "were not concerned with min/max etc"

    it sounds more like you want a communistic atmosphere where everyone is equal and there is no pressure for everyone to give 100% for the better of the group. in wow there are alot of immature players that boast about #1 dps but the fact is, WoW is a finly oiled raid atmosphere, there are no guilds that are competitve in end game content without addons.

    enrage timers, spawn timers etc will put one in your back door unless you know everyone is pulling their weight.. yes there is more to gameplay than dps or hps dps and hps is a huge part of gameplay.. without a dps meter its like guessing how fast your going in your car with no way to tell.. sure my weapon adds 10 dps over my other one but how much was I doing with my old one versus my new one.

    before fanboys everywhere jump on this post like new meat no im not a free player and im not trying to start a huge war, im just saying if you never want to be critisized about how you play then you shouldnt play in groups or you shouldnt play a mmo that has any kind of group cooperation content..

    If you suck at baseball, sit on the couch watching tv all the time drink beer and weigh 400 lbs your not gonna get to play in the world series with the twins.. thats just how it is and thats why guild on wow are like they are, they want to win because its a game. if lotro puts more end game content in and makes it worth raiding maybe they wouldnt have to go free to play to keep people.(and damage meters)

  2. #2
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    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

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  3. #3
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    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    LotRO does not need dps meters and other diagnostic addons. You and others may want them but they are not needed. Some of us actually play this game for fun and not for work. This is not an Auto Repair Shop here where diagnostic tools are part of the job.
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  4. #4
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    Lightbulb Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    No.

    What lead to the growth and downfall of WoW? Well, first off, when you factor in DPS meters you start to single out classes so you either 1.) switch classes or 2.) get into a balancing war. Then you'll start only picking the most OP classes for raids (which really doesn't matter in this game as it stands as you need balance).

    Also, you get into elitism... LOTRO is pretty darn free of that... yes there are a few people who try to epeen, but when your epic sword looks just about as cool as a regular sword... how much can you really flex? Kinships on this game have lasted since the BETA. Name some of the WoW guilds that can survive that long with people always vying for supremacy, and once they reach the top of their current guild, shopping for the next greatest deal.

    I'm glad I can go do an instance or raid without having to hear people complaining about new recruits dps under 10k single target.

    A few years ago, I was like everyone else "woohoo, I'm #1 on dps", but really... it gets old and then you grow up. You're playing a game to have fun... yes I was the first person in my guild with a trigger happy finger to boot bad recruits, but you don't need a meter to watch them targeting the wrong mobs, casting the wrong spells, or not buffing correctly.

    Now, before I hear someone say something smug trying to sound cool... I played 4.5 years in the highest level of competition raiding progression (when that term actually meant something). Personally, I sank god awful hours in both leading multiple 25 mans and min/maxing since competition was that heated. Server firsts came at a high cost and honestly began to mean less when the game required more effort than my own day to day job.

    If you want this sort of "tool", then you've only really got one choice right now... good luck with that... they really need more cash before they run out of ideas. You should really also ask yourself why you even care about dps meters in the first place. Are you wanting them to make yourself feel better that you're doing more than others? Cause I hate to say if you've made it to the end game content... you wouldn't even be posting this post. My two cents.

  5. #5
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    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Quote Originally Posted by Marvellous View Post
    What lead to the growth and downfall of WoW?
    LOL!!

    downfall of WoW? When did this happen? I am not a big WoW fan, but I sure hope Blizzard can recover.

  6. #6
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    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    No. We are not WoW. If you want that then go back to WoW.

  7. #7

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    LOTRO has had a personal dps meter since around 2008.
    lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/CStats

    If you want to improve your own rotation or whatever, great. Have at it.

    If you want to know what OTHER people are doing, that's not your concern, really. Seriously. If you're in a kin and don't like how someone is doing in the raid, discuss it. If you're in a PUG, and don't like how the group is doing, LEAVE.

    This game is not about min/maxing. If you feel the need, great, enjoy. Don't shove it down other people's throats. All that will happen is you'll get frustrated, and eventually you'll leave anyway. So save us all the hassle now. This game isn't about getting to the world series (HORRIBLE comparison, btw). It's about having some relaxing fun with friends. If you can't get over this simple fact, go back to WoW.
    Last edited by Greenasp; Sep 12 2010 at 06:04 PM.

  8. #8
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    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Quote Originally Posted by Glasscannon View Post
    why?

    #1 you dont really know if your spell/skill rotation is right for max dps or healing because you dont know what your doing overall

    #2 lets just guess how much threat were doing

    #3 your in a raid, 8 people are awesome, a few are not awesome and you cant down a boss, those few awful people are dragging everyone else down and you have no idea thats what the problem is

    thats just a few reasons.. Ive heard what most people that play this game say, like "we dont want to be wow" "were not concerned with min/max etc"

    it sounds more like you want a communistic atmosphere where everyone is equal and there is no pressure for everyone to give 100% for the better of the group. in wow there are alot of immature players that boast about #1 dps but the fact is, WoW is a finly oiled raid atmosphere, there are no guilds that are competitve in end game content without addons.

    enrage timers, spawn timers etc will put one in your back door unless you know everyone is pulling their weight.. yes there is more to gameplay than dps or hps dps and hps is a huge part of gameplay.. without a dps meter its like guessing how fast your going in your car with no way to tell.. sure my weapon adds 10 dps over my other one but how much was I doing with my old one versus my new one.

    before fanboys everywhere jump on this post like new meat no im not a free player and im not trying to start a huge war, im just saying if you never want to be critisized about how you play then you shouldnt play in groups or you shouldnt play a mmo that has any kind of group cooperation content..

    If you suck at baseball, sit on the couch watching tv all the time drink beer and weigh 400 lbs your not gonna get to play in the world series with the twins.. thats just how it is and thats why guild on wow are like they are, they want to win because its a game. if lotro puts more end game content in and makes it worth raiding maybe they wouldnt have to go free to play to keep people.(and damage meters)
    1) LOTRO isn't F2P now because the game was dying, it's because Turbine can now make more money from a game which was already acceptably healthy, at least by all public knowledge. Also, it streamlines billing and other systems.

    2) You assume people in disagreement with your ideas are "fanboys". I dislike Turbine in many ways more than the average player, but I still find fault with your argument.

    3) LOTRO doesn't "need" DPS meters and diagnostic addons. Some players want them, others don't. But every fight in the game has been successfully completed by at least one more more groups, therefore nothing is broken which needs fixing and the entirety of LOTRO content is not so EZ mode that every raid group in the game has every boss on farm status.

    4) Every group is going to be different, from gear to traits to skill level and experience. You know how you know if you're generating the right amount of threat? If your tank has aggro on all the appropriate enemies.

    5) A discussion about meters is reasonable, but not when it starts with the tone you chose for your post. Insults are not warranted.

    6) "my weapon adds 10 dps over my other one but how much was I doing with my old one versus my new one." Assuming that you're taking about the same two weapons in both parts of that question, then your answer is: 10 DPS more.
    Last edited by manpons; Sep 12 2010 at 04:38 PM.

  9. #9
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    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Quote Originally Posted by Glasscannon View Post
    Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons
    No. It don't.

  10. #10
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    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Quote Originally Posted by Glasscannon View Post
    in wow there are alot of immature players that boast about #1 dps but the fact is, WoW is a finly oiled raid atmosphere, there are no guilds that are competitve in end game content without addons.
    Summary:
    If you want to play an end-game raiding MMO, go play WoW.
    If you want to play an MMO concerned more with story and lore, play LotRO.

    PRO TIP: Use the search function before posting Yet Another Thread on the topic.
    [url="https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?506048-Talent-trees-class-roles-and-player-choice"]Talent trees, class roles, and player choice[/url]
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  11. #11

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Yet another topic on this matter
    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.p...-Lua-Scripting
    All pros and cons are explained there, not need for new topic.
    It also references some older and bigger discussions with even more heated debates.

  12. #12
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    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Quote Originally Posted by Trilwych View Post
    Summary:
    If you want to play an end-game raiding MMO, go play WoW.
    If you want to play an MMO concerned more with story and lore, play LotRO.

    PRO TIP: Use the search function before posting Yet Another Thread on the topic.
    QFT.

    One of the last things we need is for LOTRO to be more like WoW. Another one of the last things we need are people starting off "discussions" with the "if you disagree with me you're a fanboy" fallacy.

  13. #13
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    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    No. We don't need a DPS meter or any other diagnostics. The beauty of LotRO is that we don't have those things, and this game is focused more on story, lore, and a more relaxed atmosphere rather than being uber-leet or pumping out XXXX DPS. There are plenty of other games available for that sort of meta-gaming.

    The exact reason why I (and many, MANY others) play this game instead of WoW is because it doesn't have DPS meters. If they add those in, they'll lose many of their loyal customers.

    If Turbine understands their playerbase, they'll keep that stuff out of LotRO.
    Last edited by moxieblossom; Sep 12 2010 at 05:03 PM.
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  14. #14

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    I don't want my information broadcast to others.

  15. #15
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    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Quote Originally Posted by Glasscannon View Post


    thats just a few reasons.. Ive heard what most people that play this game say, like "we dont want to be wow" "were not concerned with min/max etc"

    it sounds more like you want a communistic atmosphere where everyone is equal and there is no pressure for everyone to give 100% for the better of the group. in wow there are alot of immature players that boast about #1 dps but the fact is, WoW is a finly oiled raid atmosphere, there are no guilds that are competitve in end game content without addons.



    before fanboys everywhere jump on this post like new meat no im not a free player and im not trying to start a huge war, im just saying if you never want to be critisized about how you play then you shouldnt play in groups or you shouldnt play a mmo that has any kind of group cooperation content..

    If you suck at baseball, sit on the couch watching tv all the time drink beer and weigh 400 lbs your not gonna get to play in the world series with the twins.. thats just how it is and thats why guild on wow are like they are, they want to win because its a game. if lotro puts more end game content in and makes it worth raiding maybe they wouldnt have to go free to play to keep people.(and damage meters)
    Thank god this game is not like WoW. I've been there, done that. WoW can take it's fine oiled raiding machine and take it where the sun doesn't shine. We've done ok for 3 years without any addons. We succeed without them and don't need them.

    And one thing we do not need is the egotistical elitist attitude that comes with dps meters. I've been there too, and the lack of that is one major reason why I'm here instead of WoW. After 2 1/2 years there I had enough and left those guys.

    We are not World of Warcraft. And thank God for that.
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  16. #16
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    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Quote Originally Posted by Magian View Post
    I disagree with the use of the word 'need' but your conclusions are more or less correct.

    The single largest problem LOTRO suffers from is mediocore players. Not all of this is the players fault. There is a significant lack of information amongst the players and how they interact with the world. Things like meters and diagnostic tools would help considerably with this.

    If you don't think this is the case, just compare kin and PUG runs. Do people in kinships possess such superior coordination, are more skilled at pressing buttons than PUGs? There is a coordination difference, but if everyone knows their class, much content should be easily doable. But it's not. I can't tell you how many bad PUGs I've been in since F2P launch. I explained the entire strategy to them, they all understood, but they still managed to fail miserably.

    Enough is enough.

    If Turbine will not make a concerted effort to improve their own players, then we, the community, need to do it ourselves. Being all positive and saying 'it's ok, it's just a game' will only lead to the mediocrity and frustration of PUGs.

    Let's make PUGs fun again. Bring on the tools.

    I have an immeasurable amount of gratitude that I never have to play LOTRO with you. Your attitude about other players never changes, and it never ceases to cause me to vomit in my mouth just a little bit.

    I will never use meters, I will never be in a kin that makes meters mandatory. Some of my most enjoyable and joyful moments in the game have come from learning how to excel at some of the classes I've played, and I've bonded with the other players who took the time to teach me, push me and encourage me. I have friendships and loyalties which exist outside the game now because of the time and trust I've invested. These are benefits which would not exist if my mentors were meters.

    Magian, why don't you just leave everyone else the h*** alone? You have a kin, and I'd imagine that given your superiority complex that they must be a pretty decent group of players, so run content with them. When are you going to stop judging everyone else and trying to force your worldview and gameplay style on people who aren't interested in your brand of solutions?
    [url="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?366716-LOTRO-passwords-and-internet-security-how-to-safeguard-yourself"]Lotro, passwords, and internet security - how to safeguard yourself[/url]

  17. #17
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    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Quote Originally Posted by ButrBiscut View Post
    I have an immeasurable amount of gratitude that I never have to play LOTRO with you. Your attitude about other players never changes, and it never ceases to cause me to vomit in my mouth just a little bit.

    I will never use meters, I will never be in a kin that makes meters mandatory. Some of my most enjoyable and joyful moments in the game have come from learning how to excel at some of the classes I've played, and I've bonded with the other players who took the time to teach me, push me and encourage me. I have friendships and loyalties which exist outside the game now because of the time and trust I've invested. These are benefits which would not exist if my mentors were meters.

    Magian, why don't you just leave everyone else the alone? You have a kin, and I'd imagine that given your superiority complex that they must be a pretty decent group of players, so run content with them. When are you going to stop judging everyone else and trying to force your worldview and gameplay style on people who aren't interested in your brand of solutions?
    Superiority complex? No, I don't have one.

    The problem that this community has - including you - is that every word I say (on these subjects) are immediately coloured with elitism. This is the furthest thing from what I'm saying.

    Anyone who PUGs knows there is a major skill problem with these players. The main reason, I think, is because Turbine allows you to solo 1 through 65, and the lack of information available to the players. I do not hate on these individuals, but they stink. They throw themselves against content again and again, and wipe endlessly.

    I want to help them!

    I do not want meters so I can go in a pug and say "you all suck, look at my DPS compared to yours." I want them so players can say "oh I tried this, and it's only netting X DPS when a fellow DPSer is netting Y." Then I want them to change their rotation and say "look, that's an increase, so now I'm comparable to the other guy."

    Teaching tools.

    I PUG and so I'm concerned with the community's skill level. I want people who suck to unsuck so the game can progress forward.

    But no, go ahead, call it elitism and I have a superiority complex. It's so much easier than addressing a real problem the game has.
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  18. #18

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Quote Originally Posted by Magian View Post
    Superiority complex? No, I don't have one.

    The problem that this community has - including you - is that every word I say (on these subjects) are immediately coloured with elitism. This is the furthest thing from what I'm saying.

    Anyone who PUGs knows there is a major skill problem with these players. The main reason, I think, is because Turbine allows you to solo 1 through 65, and the lack of information available to the players. I do not hate on these individuals, but they stink. They throw themselves against content again and again, and wipe endlessly.

    I want to help them!

    I do not want meters so I can go in a pug and say "you all suck, look at my DPS compared to yours." I want them so players can say "oh I tried this, and it's only netting X DPS when a fellow DPSer is netting Y." Then I want them to change their rotation and say "look, that's an increase, so now I'm comparable to the other guy."

    Teaching tools.

    I PUG and so I'm concerned with the community's skill level. I want people who suck to unsuck so the game can progress forward.

    But no, go ahead, call it elitism and I have a superiority complex. It's so much easier than addressing a real problem the game has.
    Why are "skill problems" so important? Here in LOTRO, the important thing is to have fun. Some find it fun to simply be successful in crafting. Others find it fun to hang out with others in a social environment. There are those who find it fun to run challenging group content. Others find it fun to max out their characters in every aspect possible. There are still others who find it fun to raid in challenging content.

    In other words, not everyone needs to be highly "skilled" to have fun. In fact, that group which may be throwing itself against some hard content again and again, and constantly wiping, may actually be having fun!

    Not everyone wants others to give them advice on how to play better, and that usually only works out if said players ask for that advice. In rare cases, privately (and politely) asking them to change something in their skill rotation or other area may be warranted, but I cannot see any other reasonable alternative which works outside of the appropiate kinds of groups (min/maxers and dedicated raiders, for examples).

    A group DPS meter throws that out the window entirely, and may not always fix the problem. In the right hands it may have the potential to do some good... but once added to the game, it will come into the hands of those who would rather use that in insolent ways, guaranteed. In such a situation it will do far more harm than it can good.

    As mentioned by another person in this thread, there is currently a functioning, third-party, optional opt-in version of what the OP is asking for. That is more than enough.
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  19. #19
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    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Quote Originally Posted by RingOfFire View Post
    Why are "skill problems" so important? Here in LOTRO, the important thing is to have fun. Some find it fun to simply be successful in crafting. Others find it fun to hang out with others in a social environment. There are those who find it fun to run challenging group content. Others find it fun to max out their characters in every aspect possible. There are still others who find it fun to raid in challenging content.

    In other words, not everyone needs to be highly "skilled" to have fun. In fact, that group which may be throwing itself against some hard content again and again, and constantly wiping, may actually be having fun!

    Not everyone wants others to give them advice on how to play better, and that usually only works out if said players ask for that advice. In rare cases, privately (and politely) asking them to change something in their skill rotation or other area may be warranted, but I cannot see any other reasonable alternative which works outside of the appropiate kinds of groups (min/maxers and dedicated raiders, for examples).

    A group DPS meter throws that out the window entirely, and may not always fix the problem. In the right hands it may have the potential to do some good... but once added to the game, it will come into the hands of those who would rather use that in insolent ways, guaranteed. In such a situation it will do far more harm than it can good.

    As mentioned by another person in this thread, there is currently a functioning, third-party, optional opt-in version of what the OP is asking for. That is more than enough.
    Thank you for your well-written thoughts. On any given day the activities which are fun to me in LOTRO change. Some days are instance days, some are questing days, some are crafting days, some are even "do nothing but hang out with cool people in-game" days.

    I am only one person, but the fact that I so drastically differ from Magian's approach to gameplay is proof that not everyone wants what he wants, nor believes what he believes. All the other dissenting responses to his ideas over the years just add to the pile.

    Magian, you assume too much, especially that "The single largest problem LOTRO suffers from is mediocore [sic] players." Your elitism is your assumption that anyone would want you to "teach" them anything and that you are qualified to do so. Who are you to even be the one who decides what is mediocre?

    As far as the actual meters go, there's no guarantee players will improve their skill levels by using them. Assuming such is folly and tunnel-visioned.
    [url="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?366716-LOTRO-passwords-and-internet-security-how-to-safeguard-yourself"]Lotro, passwords, and internet security - how to safeguard yourself[/url]

  20. #20
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    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    I see the usual trolls are out here with arguments that are more insults and incredibly unproductive. Ignoring that, but RingOfFire makes a good post.

    Quote Originally Posted by RingOfFire View Post
    Why are "skill problems" so important? Here in LOTRO, the important thing is to have fun. Some find it fun to simply be successful in crafting. Others find it fun to hang out with others in a social environment. There are those who find it fun to run challenging group content. Others find it fun to max out their characters in every aspect possible. There are still others who find it fun to raid in challenging content.

    In other words, not everyone needs to be highly "skilled" to have fun. In fact, that group which may be throwing itself against some hard content again and again, and constantly wiping, may actually be having fun!
    There are different kinds of fun, I agree. That is why there is so many different playstyles. But wiping is -not- fun. It is frustrating and a waste of time.

    Not everyone wants others to give them advice on how to play better, and that usually only works out if said players ask for that advice. In rare cases, privately (and politely) asking them to change something in their skill rotation or other area may be warranted, but I cannot see any other reasonable alternative which works outside of the appropiate kinds of groups (min/maxers and dedicated raiders, for examples).
    This is what I call the casual ego. You're in a group of 3, 6, 12, or 24 people. You are part of a team. Your performance now affects 2, 5, 11, or 23 other people. If you are being mediocore, or doing something wrong, it's no longer just about you. Drop the casual ego and think of the people you are playing with.

    A group DPS meter throws that out the window entirely, and may not always fix the problem. In the right hands it may have the potential to do some good... but once added to the game, it will come into the hands of those who would rather use that in insolent ways, guaranteed. In such a situation it will do far more harm than it can good.

    As mentioned by another person in this thread, there is currently a functioning, third-party, optional opt-in version of what the OP is asking for. That is more than enough.
    It has been stated in this thread before and I'll re-state it: the individuals who would abuse meters, are already exhibiting poor behaviour without them. Meters won't make any difference in this regard.
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  21. #21
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    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Quote Originally Posted by Magian View Post
    Anyone who PUGs knows there is a major skill problem with these players.
    Huh, I've only played a few weeks, only to level 25, and I've never played any MMO before. I went with PUGs through the Great Barrows Maze multiple times in beta, getting through it more often than not (and the nots weren't due to low DPS, those damn worms!)

    I went through GB Thadur with a kin group, which retreated/reset a few times over, to the point people went out to repair. Later I led a PUG and although we were defeated and reset once, we creamed Thadur right after that.

    I did GB Sambrog with that same group, completely ignorantly (I'd never set foot in it before) and we rolled right through it.

    I have NO idea what DPS anyone was doing. Because with the right strategy, you will surmount any challenge regardless of a small % difference in your DPS.

    Now admittedly, the PUG that rocked it were all new to LOTRO, but many of them had WoW experience.

    Also an anecdote is not data.

    But! The key here? We all had FUN. Actually more fun in the defeats, than in the easy Sambrog instance fact of the matter.

    I'm investing my time to enjoy myself, I'd rather share fun and lose every night rather than play a "winning" numbers game. (There are alternatives for that.)

    Now admittedly, I haven't played WoW, nor even seen a DPS meter, I didn't even upgrade my armor because I'd have to run across the skirmish camp and back and deal with multiple vendors--but I wasn't defeated, so my guess is my armor was suitable, regardless of the numbers.

    Now here's a question for those in favor of maximizing DPS. Do you know when doing more DPS as a group could be your worst choice of strategy? Did you ever consider that the reason your group isn't excelling is your are doing too much DPS? Would you believe the hunter in the aforementioned PUG, that achieved so much, actually turned off his stance and used lower DPS autoattacks instead of powerful skills?

    It's about managing time effectively. Higher DPS obviously means less time. Less time to recover. Less time for debuffs/stuns/whatever to run out, so you remain vulnerable. Less time to regain power. Less time for cooldown timers to finish, so your life saving skills aren't available when needed. Less time for the group to be prepared. A perfect example is the GB Thadur instance.

    But I'm not going to gripe when others are doing too much DPS, thankfully most people see beyond "if the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail" and we'll have fun regardless!



    "Sometimes survival comes down to not being hit. Actually, most times." -the chicken skill, Bob and Weave

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    25

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    his stance and used lower DPS autoattacks instead of powerful skills?

    It's about managing time effectively. Higher DPS obviously means less time. Less time to recover. Less time for debuffs/stuns/whatever to run out, so you remain vulnerable. Less time to regain power. Less time for cooldown timers to finish, so your life saving skills aren't available when needed. Less time for the group to be prepared. A perfect example is the GB Thadur instance.

    But I'm not going to gripe when others are doing too much DPS, thankfully most people see beyond "if the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail" and we'll have fun regardless!



    "Sometimes survival comes down to not being hit. Actually, most times." -the chicken skill, Bob and Weave[/QUOTE]
    Now I really hate to resurrect a dead thread... but I have to say a couple things... dpsmeters are here already now... And haven't changed the game much, but have allowed those who used them to do exactly what they asked for and intended..... play with numbers to see what rotation did what... Whatever PTSD some folks are/were experienced from other MMOs that made them deathly afraid of dpsmeters i hope is starting to trickle away.. Heck, I'd bet most of those posters haven't even been aware that dps meters have been here for a few months already. Well, they have.

    But the real reaon I had to post was this ^^ I'm sry.. im just sadistic and this was classicly funny. Reading the post of somene's text wall about "do you know when dps might actually not be the best strategy" lol.... I hope that with a little game experience that poster recognizes that had virtually nothing to do with that hunters choice of stance. Strength stance increases threat, so a person can dang well pull even if they aren't even TRYING to dps... But on the other hand, devs think making strength stance dps more viable was important enough to focus an entire hunter class update around allowing hunters to INCREASE dps in strength stance and eliminate the true reason this hunter dropped out of it. The increased threat.

    Now.... hopefully another lesson has been learned in hindsight... that group that "carried" you through where you couldnt even be bothered to change your armor? Dude, some ppl get annoyed at players who don't have enough respect for other ppl's time and effort to even be bothered to keep their gear up to date. You had a PuG that knew the strategy to the instance, which tells you its very likely they were all experienced players on alts... not that your armor was good enough or whatnot. It was good enough, but was it good enough that you didnt piss the healer off with all the extra time they had to spend babysitting you?

    So.. I'm not gonna argue or lie, if ppl wanna take offense at what i say go ahead. If all an MMO was about was the friggin story then ppl could just go read a book. Ppl play MMOs to have fun, and be challenged (unless you chronically under level your quest choices and play like a wuss). If you're not at least curious as to what is a more efficient rotation of skills, then youre a sloth with low brain function who is probably in part REQUIRING other ppl to make use of dps meters in order to compensate for your lack of caring enough to be as good as you can be at what you do.

    Take the watcher for example, or even the turtle. In themselves cakewalks, if you have ppl who have bothered to learn the strategy and the job and outfit themselves to do their job properly. Very unforgiving for the person or people who think they can slide through with no contribution and get an easy raid completion. Then move to DN, DG, and further.
    Situational awareness is important, but a desire to learn to be good at what you do is just normal... and without metrics that is a blind learning curve.

    So, whine and make some kind of wierd issue about dps meters. But i hope some day you leave your OWN baggage at the wow server and join up and be willing to learn something. I dont care if everyone uses dpsmeters. Who does? But to categorically say a game "shouldnt" have them because of such and such nonsense brought over from another game, just leave it. If we really are such a "better community" and a game that is all about fun, then i really think we can get over the dpsmeter thing cant we? If the thought of them ruins your day, however, i think your issue runs deeper than competition.

    I think the truth is many ppl out there had **** experiences with A holes from other games and are pronjecting it on ppl who have no such designs. Get over yer PTSD.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Fredericton, New Brunswick
    Posts
    888

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Quote Originally Posted by Magian View Post
    Superiority complex? No, I don't have one.
    ...
    Anyone who PUGs knows there is a major skill problem with these players. The main reason, I think, is because Turbine allows you to solo 1 through 65, and the lack of information available to the players. I do not hate on these individuals, but they stink. They throw themselves against content again and again, and wipe endlessly.
    So what? LOL. Then teach them! Show some leadership and offer to lead them through it. 100% of content in this game is beatable with perfect coordination, teamwork and knowledge of the fight. There is no need to min/max a single thing like DPS; and there are only 3 real DPS classes out of the 9 anyway.

    I want to help them!

    But perhaps they DON'T WANT HELP! They enjoy losing and learning in their own fashion. They have their idea of FUN and it very likely IS NOT YOURS.

    I do not want meters so I can go in a pug and say "you all suck, look at my DPS compared to yours." I want them so players can say "oh I tried this, and it's only netting X DPS when a fellow DPSer is netting Y." Then I want them to change their rotation and say "look, that's an increase, so now I'm comparable to the other guy."

    Teaching tools.
    The Mel Gibson card - I'm sorry darling, I don't want to be [mean] to you but you make me so mad and I just want to help you. You leave me no choice. How can you spurn my [concern]?

    But no, go ahead, call it elitism and I have a superiority complex. It's so much easier than addressing a real problem the game has.
    IF you think it is a problem. Many of us DON'T.
    [FONT=Arial][charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0820700000014ca6b/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig][/FONT]

    [FONT=Arial][SIZE=1]Pendarion of Gilrain, Level 75 Captain, [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1]Arafin of Gilrain, Level 75 Elf Lore-master, [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1]Grimbor of Gilrain, Level 75 Dwarf Guardian, [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1]
    Findorin of Gilrain, Level 70 Elf Hunter, [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1]Grimwise of Gilrain, Level 65 Dwarf Minstrel, [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1]Gilgaran of Gilrain, Level 65 Elf Warden, [/SIZE][/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial][SIZE=1]Arafindor of Gilrain. Level 65 Man Champion, [/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1]Andarfin of Arkenstone, Level 65 Man Lore-master, G[/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Arial][SIZE=1]ilgarion of Arkenstone, Level 65 Elf Rune-keeper, [/SIZE][/FONT]

  24. #24

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    As previously mentioned you can use cstats to analyze your personal details in great detail.

    You can also use some of my software. LotroChatNarrator can read out real time personal stats over your headphones. Or LotroDPSEvil can display real time stats, and optionally let you set up a server so multiple people can see each others real time stats.

    If you are going to grumble at least only ask for stuff we don't already have...
    .
    The Un-named Kinmate
    LOTRO Utilities

  25. #25

    Re: Lotro needs a dps meter and other diagnostic addons

    Quote Originally Posted by Tilps View Post
    As previously mentioned you can use cstats to analyze your personal details in great detail.

    You can also use some of my software. LotroChatNarrator can read out real time personal stats over your headphones. Or LotroDPSEvil can display real time stats, and optionally let you set up a server so multiple people can see each others real time stats.

    If you are going to grumble at least only ask for stuff we don't already have...

    qft...plus if I remember correctly, yuor software asks for permissions from others to read their data if they so choose, so it is a good option for those who wish to see theirs and others stats.

 

 
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