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  1. #1

    New Lore-master Skill!

    Righteo. Just a small idea of mine that I figured I'd share with the LMs. Some LMs like-a-duh DPS. Some LMs cry for the olden days where they were support. I say -- add a new skill that'll satisfy both sides of the coin.

    Introducing.....

    Vine-lore!
    ....or...some probably way cooler name you guys can come up with.

    Here's the gist of it



    -It's an upgraded version of Herb-Lore
    -It retains Herb-lore's current details (2 minute cooldown, 40m range, 30 second root, etc)
    -Adds damage over time that will not break the root

    The idea behind it is that the Loremaster, instead of calling on roots to root, calls on vines with spikies and spinies that'll stabbie the enemy and hold 'em in place. In other words, it'll give LMs more reason to use roots as both a CC and a DPS choice. It's a win-win!



    Just another something to consider for upcoming level cap raises.
    Last edited by tolkien_fanatic03; Aug 13 2010 at 09:03 PM.

  2. #2
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    Re: New Lore-master Skill!

    It could be ok (if the damage was toned down), but when I want to dps and cc I just throw down some tar and used cracked earth - I get a big initial hit and by the time the enemies get close the root connects. It could also probably be combined with ents or storm lore to get a second attack (with stun) in before the root goes off.

    The way it stands now you're going to get a lot of flack from champions for creating an AOE DOT without having to worry about taking any damage in return. It would add up to 680-870 on up to 5 targets with no danger to you for 30s.

  3. #3
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    Re: New Lore-master Skill!

    Imagine how much creeps would complain about this, even with diminishing returns.
    Not all those who wander are lost. They might be working on one of their exploration deeds.
    The new forums stink on ice. Let others follow them who can.

  4. #4

    Re: New Lore-master Skill!

    Quote Originally Posted by MysterX View Post
    Imagine how much creeps would complain about this, even with diminishing returns.
    Omg now freeps can tab dot without tab
    Iinferno - r12 LM IVillKillU - r8 Reaver Dongramorthil - Warden Doalin - Hunter ​Defaelearin - RK Dongrailin - Captain (Officer of Preying Mantis)
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  5. #5

    Re: New Lore-master Skill!

    The damage is just some made up number to estimate what could be okay with a 5 level increase. I based it on our DPS improvements from Moria to Mirkwood.

    Remember, with a level cap increase, Lore-masters aren't the only class with upgrades. Everyone gets new skills (hopefully). And, Turbine has the power to disable anything in the Moors, if need be.

    It'd just be nice in group-play, really. You could also limit it to a certain trait-line (ie, the Ancient Master line) to give Loremasters more choices for efficient group play.

    As it stands -- the AE DPS line for the Loremaster is all anyone ever needs nowadays. Sure, you can pop in the AM, or the Pet, but most groups bash and AE their way through content. Meaning no CC needed, and all out AE DPS. It's just plain quicker and more efficient, unfortunately, to go with da 5 ol' reds.

  6. #6

    Re: New Lore-master Skill!

    Quote Originally Posted by MysterX View Post
    Imagine how much creeps would complain about this, even with diminishing returns.
    Exactly what I thought.

    Nice idea though.
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  7. #7

    Re: New Lore-master Skill!

    the skill makes absolutely no sense, its a damaging root. damage breaks roots. the first time the dot ticks it would break the root, if you really wanna do something like this as it is, throw down gourd at a group followed by an instant herblore, then follow up with a cracked earth, run in and storm lore, by the time they come out of the stn, the cracked earth is active and you can run out of melee range, then you can ents if you want to ice the cake after the storm lore immunity leaves, in effect you just AOEd the **** out of mobs while holding them in place, and working diminishing returns the best you can. if you do it right you can make a group stay still in a aoe gourd for the 30 second duration.
    Manbeorpig 100 Beorning, Brandywine.

  8. #8

    Re: New Lore-master Skill!

    Quote Originally Posted by EdalorTrailtamper View Post
    the skill makes absolutely no sense, its a damaging root. damage breaks roots. the first time the dot ticks it would break the root....

    Yes. I realize this. That's why I specifically said:
    -Adds damage over time that will not break the root

    As it stands, there is no player system that can be used to implement the idea. However, there are monsters with a system that works. Think of the Merrevail. Perhaps if Turbine were to consider adding this as a skill in the next level cap raise they'll use the Monster system to make it work.

  9. #9

    Re: New Lore-master Skill!

    For those couple of you posting about storm lore after you apply cracked earth it doesn't work like that when you stun a mob after the cracked earth even if the root has not connected yet, it gets rid of the cracked earth root or ability to root. This is basic stuff please know this before you bash someone elses ideas.


    Wilantuk
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  10. #10
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    Re: New Lore-master Skill!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilantuk View Post
    For those couple of you posting about storm lore after you apply cracked earth it doesn't work like that when you stun a mob after the cracked earth even if the root has not connected yet, it gets rid of the cracked earth root or ability to root.
    Really, then why do mobs always seem to get rooted after I use CE, then LotRD?

    Personally, I think this idea is cool (and in line with the small skill upgrades they have been giving out lately), however, I can't see why vines would deal fire damage. I would say common or, if we want to stretch things, light (they are plants right, like solar-beam) damage.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0420800000001dbab/01001/signature.png]Fettorin[/charsig]
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  11. #11
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    Re: New Lore-master Skill!

    To me it's still a skill with too many advantages for no risk. If it does a sizable piece of damage to many enemies without having to get close or worry about being interrupted, why wouldn't you use it to start every single fight?

    Our other medium to hard hitting skills (ents, lightning storm) have inductions that require a small amount of strategy to use them without getting interrupted, and stick gourd does damage and a dot, but you had better be ready to deal with the angry mobs headed your way after it goes off.

  12. #12

    Re: New Lore-master Skill!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilantuk View Post
    For those couple of you posting about storm lore after you apply cracked earth it doesn't work like that when you stun a mob after the cracked earth even if the root has not connected yet, it gets rid of the cracked earth root or ability to root. This is basic stuff please know this before you bash someone elses ideas.


    Wilantuk
    It actually depends on if you have the three AM set bonus. The cracked earth delayed root will not kick in if the victim is in the stunned or recovery CC states. Storm Lore takes 1 second or so to animate, stuns for 3 seconds, and puts them in recovery for 1 second. If your CE has a 5 second delay, following that up with SL, even if it is directly after the CE, will prevent the root from occurring. If your CE has a 10 second delay, you've got about 3 or so seconds to use SL before you'll prevent the root.

    (Must. Resist. Urge. To quote. Last sentence. (okay, that failed horribly.))

  13. #13

    Re: New Lore-master Skill!

    Quote Originally Posted by ButrosButros View Post
    To me it's still a skill with too many advantages for no risk. If it does a sizable piece of damage to many enemies without having to get close or worry about being interrupted, why wouldn't you use it to start every single fight?
    Exactly! That's the very point. If Loremasters were to have a skill like that they'd argue to Fellowships that they wanna CC the pulls instead of bash and AE. And if they're gonna CC, they may as well trait for debuffs. In other words, it'll make Loremasters and Fellowships reconsider this AE DPS race in instances. Well, sorta. Until LMs start parsing data, the skill can trick them into thinking CC is a viable option again.

    Devs, the AE DPS:
    1. Gets boring and grindy
    2. Is too easy to master
    2. Lets us beat the content quickly, therefore shortening the life of said content.

    If you want something to last, you do it slow and steady.

    Quote Originally Posted by ButrosButros View Post
    Our other medium to hard hitting skills (ents, lightning storm) have inductions that require a small amount of strategy to use them without getting interrupted, and stick gourd does damage and a dot, but you had better be ready to deal with the angry mobs headed your way after it goes off.
    Meh, it's just DPS. Nothing hard to it at all. DPS rotations, DPS is King. DPS is LotrO's 42. And DPS is easy. Endgame Healers and Tanks are quite fine with LMs that take aggro with Sticky Gourd. They can work through it. That's what the AE DPS race is all about.

    Why not give the other classes a similar skill, to support CC play? They could do that as well, you know. There's so much potential there -- if you think about it -- it's hard to ignore.


    Quote Originally Posted by speaksoftly View Post
    ...I can't see why vines would deal fire damage. I would say common or, if we want to stretch things, light (they are plants right, like solar-beam) damage.
    I can't see why they'd deal fire damage either, to be honest. I thought LMs would shudder if I placed it as Common. And I saw Cracked Earth deals Fire damage so I sorta picked it up from that. But you're right. Could be anything. In retrospect I can see Acid damage (poison) as the most logical.
    Last edited by tolkien_fanatic03; Aug 16 2010 at 05:09 PM.

  14. #14
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    Re: New Lore-master Skill!

    How is this not AoE DPS? If anything, it just makes it easier to keep everything in the Sticky Gourd blender...
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  15. #15

    Re: New Lore-master Skill!

    Quote Originally Posted by MysterX View Post
    How is this not AoE DPS? If anything, it just makes it easier to keep everything in the Sticky Gourd blender...
    Very true. It is DPS. But it's also CC. And I never made clear on just how the DoTs would work, in my mind. The improved Herb-lore, or Vine-lore, would use a separate damaging system, much like the Merrevail's root/drain. That way the Herb-lore's innate damage wouldn't break the root. However, other DPS would break the root, just as it normally would.

    So sticky gourd would release them. As well as any stuns or other damage types.

    Another line of thought was that this AE DPS Herb-lore would only be available if you traited decently deep (I'm thinking 3 deep) in the debuff line. Which would mean you couldn't do the Sticky Gourd DoT.

    It's my hope that the added DPS would trick LMs into considering CC once again (especially if it was only made available to the debuffing line)

  16. #16

    Re: New Lore-master Skill!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wilantuk View Post
    For those couple of you posting about storm lore after you apply cracked earth it doesn't work like that when you stun a mob after the cracked earth even if the root has not connected yet, it gets rid of the cracked earth root or ability to root. This is basic stuff please know this before you bash someone elses ideas.


    Wilantuk
    it most definitely does apply after CC, a cracked earth can not break a target out of a daze to a root, or overlap immunity of said daze or stun, but if you time it right, and the target doesnt have immunity, you most certainly can place CC between the application and expiration of cracked earth, and still get the desired root. please play a LM a bit before making a post about someone bashing someone elses post, when you are wrong.
    Manbeorpig 100 Beorning, Brandywine.

  17. #17
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    Re: New Lore-master Skill!

    Anyone else wonder why vines are doing fire damage?
    [CENTER][URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/128390/144959613006110488/"][COLOR="Red"]Drarin[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/128390/144959613006117013/"][COLOR="Green"]Ingbor[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/128390/144959613006293883/"][COLOR="DarkOrange"]Flarin[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/128390/144959613006451468/"][COLOR="RoyalBlue"]Ambrosaius[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/128390/144959613006662914/"][COLOR="Gray"]Artharir[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/128390/144959613007176192/"][COLOR="Yellow"]Perethain[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/128390/144959613007176051/"][COLOR="Purple"]Artharod[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/128390/144959613006765999/"][COLOR="Sienna"]Segatarius[/COLOR][/URL] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/home/character/128390/144959613006764593/"][COLOR="White"]Ranskalaiset[/COLOR][/URL]
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  18. #18
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    Re: New Lore-master Skill!

    Quote Originally Posted by tolkien_fanatic03 View Post
    Righteo. Just a small idea of mine that I figured I'd share with the LMs. Some LMs like-a-duh DPS. Some LMs cry for the olden days where they were support. I say -- add a new skill that'll satisfy both sides of the coin.

    Introducing.....

    Vine-lore!
    ....or...some probably way cooler name you guys can come up with.

    Here's the gist of it



    -It's an upgraded version of Herb-Lore
    -It retains Herb-lore's current details (2 minute cooldown, 40m range, 30 second root, etc)
    -Adds damage over time that will not break the root

    The idea behind it is that the Loremaster, instead of calling on roots to root, calls on vines with spikies and spinies that'll stabbie the enemy and hold 'em in place. In other words, it'll give LMs more reason to use roots as both a CC and a DPS choice. It's a win-win!



    Just another something to consider for upcoming level cap raises.
    Great idea.
    One thing that my wife mentioned is that there are times when you, as CC don't want to do damage to a target, like the Devoted in GS or the ghosts that you need to avoid killing in SG.

    Quote Originally Posted by ButrosButros View Post
    To me it's still a skill with too many advantages for no risk. If it does a sizable piece of damage to many enemies without having to get close or worry about being interrupted, why wouldn't you use it to start every single fight?

    Our other medium to hard hitting skills (ents, lightning storm) have inductions that require a small amount of strategy to use them without getting interrupted, and stick gourd does damage and a dot, but you had better be ready to deal with the angry mobs headed your way after it goes off.
    I have played a game with a root that has a DoT that won't break its own root, WoW's Druid's skill Entangling Roots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Drarin View Post
    Anyone else wonder why vines are doing fire damage?
    The OP answered that already.
    Quote Originally Posted by tolkien_fanatic03 View Post
    I can't see why they'd deal fire damage either, to be honest. I thought LMs would shudder if I placed it as Common. And I saw Cracked Earth deals Fire damage so I sorta picked it up from that. But you're right. Could be anything. In retrospect I can see Acid damage (poison) as the most logical.
    Personally I would think frost would be nice since Lore-masters have so few frost skills.
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  19. #19
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    Re: New Lore-master Skill!

    I really like the OP's idea!
    But as I said before:
    One thing that my wife mentioned is that there are times when you, as CC don't want to do damage to a target, like the Devoted in GS or the ghosts that you need to avoid killing in SG.
    So I would guest a separate skill that roots and DoTs:

    Garden-Lore- Roots 3 targets for 10 seconds and applies a Frost DoT for the duration of the root.
    Now its frost damage cause Lore-master's have so little frost skills. I guess if the text said that the skill: Holds foes in place with icy vines, frost damage would make more sense.
    EDIT Note: Garden -Lore is a referance a phrase in the Lord of the Rings.

    Since the OP was thinking of an improved skill how about: Improved [skill]Test of Will[/skill]
    Test of Wills-The skill has a max of 3-5 targets. Its not a normal AoE in that like the first boss's splash damage skill in SG, the damage is divided amongst the targets.
    So if [skill]Test of Will[/skill] would normally do 600 damage and there is only one target it does 600 damage but if there are 3 it would do 200 to each mob. A nice AoE that improves a skill with an already long cooldown. The stun I would imagine would only effect the target not the splash mobs.
    Last edited by Drakkonus; Aug 23 2010 at 04:23 PM.
    [color=blue][b][i]Drakkonus[/i][/b][/color] Elf LRM [color=orange][B]Leonnidus[/B][/color] Man CPT [color=red][B]Cappricornus[/B][/color] Dwarf RNK [color=jade][b]Taurrus[/b][/color] Hobbit WRD [color=aqua][B]Aquarrius[/B][/color] Dwarf CHM [color=silver]
    [B]Peggasus[/B][/color] Dwarf MNS [color=yellow][B]Scorppius[/B][/color] Hobbit BUR [color=fuchsia][B]Saggittarius[/B][/color] Elf HNT [color=purple][B]Centaurrus[/B][/color] Man GRD [color=brown][B]Ursaemajjorus[/B][/color] Beornling
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  20. #20
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    Re: New Lore-master Skill!

    The Devoted in Grand Stair is immune to roots and other crowd control anyway.
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  21. #21
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    Re: New Lore-master Skill!

    Quote Originally Posted by MysterX View Post
    The Devoted in Grand Stair is immune to roots and other crowd control anyway.
    I don't know if it's changed but, my strat for that fight used to be to root the Devoted and archers at the entrence or root the Devoted away from the archers and chain daze the archers, this is a great strat with 2 LRM or a LRM and a BUR.
    [color=blue][b][i]Drakkonus[/i][/b][/color] Elf LRM [color=orange][B]Leonnidus[/B][/color] Man CPT [color=red][B]Cappricornus[/B][/color] Dwarf RNK [color=jade][b]Taurrus[/b][/color] Hobbit WRD [color=aqua][B]Aquarrius[/B][/color] Dwarf CHM [color=silver]
    [B]Peggasus[/B][/color] Dwarf MNS [color=yellow][B]Scorppius[/B][/color] Hobbit BUR [color=fuchsia][B]Saggittarius[/B][/color] Elf HNT [color=purple][B]Centaurrus[/B][/color] Man GRD [color=brown][B]Ursaemajjorus[/B][/color] Beornling
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