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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    LA
    Posts
    437

    Why do we have to pay upkeep?

    This is a serious question.

    We pay a pretty hefty fee upfront when it comes to major in-game upgrades: first real mount is 4g+, third through sixth extra bank bags are 4 and 5g each, tier 6 crafting guild recipes are through the roof. But once we jump the hurdle, it's done and over with. The benefits are ours virtually forever.

    But not so with houses.

    We shell out 7g+ for a deluxe house, double that for a kin, yet we're still expected to pay a substantial weekly fine just to retain access to what we've already bought. If you started charging upkeep every week for people to keep using the bank and their mounts, I think you would successfully anger every single player you have.

    In all honesty, I don't mind paying upkeep. I really don't. I think of it as rent -- a necessary regular money sink just like irl. But in real life, I didn't have to pay for the house before I started renting a room in it. And in real life, if I stop paying rent, I get evicted, plain and simple.

    So what it all boils down to is one of two options:

    A) Don't charge people to "buy" their house, and stop locking non-payers out and start evicting them

    or

    B) Stop making us pay upkeep

    Either one's fine by me.

    Thanks for reading.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    2,912

    Re: Why do we have to pay upkeep?

    It's a standard MMO money-sink. A way to remove money from the game.

    From a lore viewpoint, I look at it as a "neighborhood upkeep" fee. Someone has get paid to mow the lawn and trim the bushes.
    [COLOR=gray][SIZE=1][/SIZE][/COLOR]

  3. #3

    Re: Why do we have to pay upkeep?

    There are very few ways in games to destroy silver. Housing upkeep is one such example. Housing upkeep especially if you got a standard is so small you will never notice it. It is 50 silvers a week. I spend more on stable rides in a week than I do for my standard and deluxe house upkeep.
    Unless stated otherwise, all content in this post is My Personal Opinion.

  4. #4

    Re: Why do we have to pay upkeep?

    Instead of rent, think of it as Taxes. It would be just like that in the real world. You bought the house, then you pay taxes on it forever.

    The money you pay in taxes pays for all the services around the town, such as road upkeep, the guards to keep you safe, even the street lamps to see at night are paid for out of your taxes.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    126

    Re: Why do we have to pay upkeep?

    It's most likely so that people who are no longer playing the game will lose their homes through lack of upkeep payments.

    If you can pick out those who are no longer playing and foreclose their home, then you don't have to open up more server space for neighborhoods as often. Or at least I would assume this is so. Because I think you do eventually get evicted from the home, it just takes a while.
    Last edited by msbunglexx; Jul 13 2010 at 06:30 PM.

  6. #6

    Re: Why do we have to pay upkeep?

    I stopped playing the game for 7 months. My house was still there when I came back. I should have lost my house, had everything thrown in the Escrow and have been forced to rebuy a new one... instead I just pay a 4.2g 'fee'. What is the point if you get to keep the house forever? My neighborhood has so MANY awol player's houses just sitting there, I dont see the point of them still being allowed to keep a house they arent paying for.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Edmonton AB Canada
    Posts
    333

    Re: Why do we have to pay upkeep?

    Every house I have owned in RL required upkeep. Otherwise it falls down eventually.
    Repairs, taxes, etc.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a0000000bc65f/01001/signature.png]Shumgrin[/charsig]
    Shumgrin Guard/explorer Bookman, LM/Scholar; Phetchit, Gelt, and others:
    All that is required for evil to succeed is for good man to do nothing.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    The Shire
    Posts
    144

    Re: Why do we have to pay upkeep?

    Quote Originally Posted by msbunglexx View Post
    It's most likely so that people who are no longer playing the game will lose their homes through lack of upkeep payments.

    If you can pick out those who are no longer playing and foreclose their home, then you don't have to open up more server space for neighborhoods as often. Or at least I would assume this is so. Because I think you do eventually get evicted from the home, it just takes a while.
    Not to be rude, but this is false. I forget why rent was instituted specifically, but I do know that too many people were complaining of losing their homes after an extended leave from LotRO.

    The system we have now, however, punishes everyone; our housing neighborhoods are dismal from lack of player attention (less player attention puts it lower on the list of To Do items for the Devs), and it eats up Turbine's server space.

    I for one would vote to keep the current upkeep fee system, but reinstate the loss of a house (and items moved to escrow) after failing to pay upkeep (or x weeks after the last payment was made). Either way, it would add a sense of fluidity to the housing environments and give some meaning to that upkeep: if you don't pay it, you lose your house!

    Regardless, housing needs some help before it will become more popular.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/04208000000190717/01001/signature.png]Thrarain[/charsig]

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    308

    Re: Why do we have to pay upkeep?

    This is standard mmo procedure. I'm used to it and couldn't care less so long as I don't get gauged.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    7

    Re: Why do we have to pay upkeep?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mircea12345 View Post
    This is standard mmo procedure. I'm used to it and couldn't care less so long as I don't get gauged.
    Actually coming from multiple MMOs that have housing systems I can only think of one that had an upkeep fee. (SWG) but there the fees were so low they simply didn't matter at all A system was in place as well to insure that even if you forgot to pay your fees you still wouldn't loose your home but instead have the option available for the payment to come out of your bank. The thing with that system is with these moderate fees you got a much more involved system of housing that wasn't a money sink and had 100 units of storage right off, up to 250 If I remember right with the basic home. (including furniture)

    In another game off the top of my head (FF11) Housing was free If I remember correctly. Or there was a one time fee. But in your home you could again decorate, get loads of storage space and even grow and cultivate crystal flowers not only to decorate your home but you make crafting Items that you could use later.

    Another example City of heroes. When your base was large enough (and by large I mean insanely Huge as you could make a free base with absolutely everything you could ever need / use in it for free) You have to pay an upkeep fee. failure to pay simply made the object in the base, (teleporters, enhancement tables and so forth) stop working. but you could still go in and enjoy the decor and use your base as you wished.

    My issue with the current system is not that it's simply a lot of money, As it is by far the most expensive (relative to the game economy) player housing I have ever seen in an MMO but it also gives very little reward. The decorating leaves very much to be desired and is by far the worst I have seen with the vast limitations to what a person can do with their home. And the bonus storage space is so little, for what will end up being the most expensive storage box you purchase.

    At 16.7 gold your last 4 bank slots will cost a good amount but they are yours forever and that's it but at 7.6 gold just to buy the house (and chests) and a heafty .15 gold per week you are looking at a fee of 15.4 gold in a year. and then 23.2 gold in two As the time wears on so does the cost of those slots... and that's if you never default on the payments. it just goes up from there. As a person who played WoW for near 6 years CoH for 5 or so and many other not so famous MMOs like Guild wars and such for many years I can see myself playing lotro for a very long time. for people who have had a house for 2, or 3 years (assuming the same rules applied back then) then they have paid out the nose for the system and I feel for them, and don't want to do that myself.

    I have to say as a new player to lotro (loving the game) I was very disappointed at the housing system and hope they give it more thought and love soon
    Last edited by Kinata; Jul 19 2010 at 09:57 AM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    308

    Re: Why do we have to pay upkeep?

    ... EQ2 has an upkeep fee. So what.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Sydney,Australia
    Posts
    89

    Re: Why do we have to pay upkeep?

    Think of it as land tax if anything they need to improve the housing like giving us a option to sell back to the broker when we want to move house instead of abandoning it.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/042080000002b2c1b/01003/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Arkansas, USA
    Posts
    80

    Re: Why do we have to pay upkeep?

    My only issue with it is and always has been the fact that it can not be automated. It does not happen often but there are times when a person is not around to log into the game for a few months straight.

    Well that and housing items being BoA to characters and not accounts. By the time you have half a dozen level-capped characters it is a pain to try to keep up with what belongs to who.

  14. #14

    Re: Why do we have to pay upkeep?

    Quote Originally Posted by Volsi View Post
    Instead of rent, think of it as Taxes. It would be just like that in the real world. You bought the house, then you pay taxes on it forever.

    The money you pay in taxes pays for all the services around the town, such as road upkeep, the guards to keep you safe, even the street lamps to see at night are paid for out of your taxes.
    The flaw with that analogy is that the millage rate used in-game is ridiculously out of proportion with reality.

    The current system would be comparable to paying $1 million per year in HOA fees on a $385,000 home. You get NOTHING for your money except restrictive decorating options and neverending depletion of your hard earned cash.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Canberra, Australia (Asylum for the Cynically Insane)
    Posts
    401
    Quote Originally Posted by cedwin View Post
    From a lore viewpoint, I look at it as a "neighborhood upkeep" fee. Someone has get paid to mow the lawn and trim the bushes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Volsi View Post
    Instead of rent, think of it as Taxes. It would be just like that in the real world. You bought the house, then you pay taxes on it forever.

    The money you pay in taxes pays for all the services around the town, such as road upkeep, the guards to keep you safe, even the street lamps to see at night are paid for out of your taxes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Apot View Post
    Every house I have owned in RL required upkeep. Otherwise it falls down eventually. Repairs, taxes, etc.
    And all of these make a game ... FUN? I'm sorry, but I play games to get away from real life and have fun. Paying taxes and mindless maintenance of property is not fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mircea12345 View Post
    This is standard mmo procedure. I'm used to it and couldn't care less so long as I don't get gauged.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mircea12345 View Post
    ... EQ2 has an upkeep fee. So what.
    Following the crowd makes an MMO stand out? Stand out games break the rules.

    .

    Lets take a step back from staunchly defending the game and think objectively about it.

    Now .... the rent thing was put into the game so that people wouldn't hold onto properties. Those properties would become available again and active players would buy them ... in the hope that those neighbourhoods became more vibrant with active players. I'm all for a system that makes neighbourhoods more populated, but the way the system works now, it's failed. It simply DOESN'T WORK. The fact is that lots of people drop in an out of games and a 'one player, one property' solution will never cut it for a long tern sustainable vibrant housing area. But at this point it just seems that Turbine has just thrown up their hands in despair and have just given up trying to make the system work. I don't think they need to give up at all. There is a simple rework that, while it has some downsides (some would say significant) that would take neighbourhood and make them LIVE:

    1) Merge all neighbourhoods into one. This would mean a population in one place and neighbourhoods would zing!

    2) People own the house, but not the yard. This part people would hate as it takes away yard customisation ... but for the benefit of having living neighbourhoods.

    3] Instance the house interior for each person. So you own still can customise your own home. You can still invite people into it.

    4) STOP FORCING PEOPLE TO PAY RENT. IT'S NOT FUN! And as a money sink it doesn't hurt the people who have hundreds of gp. It only hurts the people who are levelling or who have been taking a break from the game. (Turbine ... if you REALLY want to force people to pay rent, then let them do it with TP).

    Ok. My solution is not perfect. Some people will hate it. But some also hated no "no tagging" rule. Some also hated F2P. People generally hate change. But those changes have worked out for the better despite the naysayers and critics (who are incidentally probably enjoying the changes now).

    And if you don't like these suggestions, rather than just rag on them how about making some positive suggestions for change! The situation as it stands in not fun .... and games should be about FUN!
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0420800000002289f/01003/signature.png]Degoras[/charsig]

 

 

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