We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Results 1 to 7 of 7
  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Middle Earth
    Posts
    672

    Slightly Concerned

    From the new Captain thread the devs put up, I see a good many people asking for Captains to get the DPS traitline buffed to the expense of healing/buffs, ect

    It bothers me because, for one, I like being able to trait red for groups, and be able to still offheal, offtank, buff, and generaly do a ton of things to be able to help a group out, putting in something like a fixed warspeech for our Red Traitline would hurt something that I see as an integrital part of our class.

    Course, it might just depend on implementations of improvements, the nice thing about RK attunements and Minstrel Warspech is that you can change or turn them off mid battle, however, I still like being able to damage AND heal at the exact some time.

    And yes, it is quite possible to be meleeing someone and firing off WoCs at the same time, you generaly do want to try to go for opened up rallying crys.


    Personaly, I think many of us get stuck in the "Captains are the underdogs of LOTRO" attutide, sure, we have has issues historicly in the game, but every class has had problems too, and really Captains, things arent that terrible.

    Anywhay, If I wanted to be a RK or a Minstrel, I would have rolled one.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0620500000007c780/01008/signature.png]Jadoth[/charsig]
    Captain Jadoth / Reaver Solug

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    6 Long Street, Hamglen, Breeland
    Posts
    747

    Re: Slightly Concerned

    I think the biggest problem we have is that Turbine has skewed our trait lines and legacies too much in one direction. Nine times out of ten, captains will choose HOH over LOM and LTC, simply because our healing line is so much better than the 'buffing' and dps/tanking lines.

  3. #3

    Re: Slightly Concerned

    Quote Originally Posted by myfreezr2 View Post
    I think the biggest problem we have is that Turbine has skewed our trait lines and legacies too much in one direction. Nine times out of ten, captains will choose HOH over LOM and LTC, simply because our healing line is so much better than the 'buffing' and dps/tanking lines.
    It's not that the healing line is so much better, it's that we can make ourselves so good at healing that we can be main-heal for several instances and boss fights. I consider this to be a good thing, and the only reason I like my captain so much and put so much time and energy into it. I for one don't care about dps in the slightest.

    Would I mind some buffing to our red line? Not at all, just so long as it doesn't hurt our blue line. Would I ever use it? Not really.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Landroval
    Posts
    1,166

    Re: Slightly Concerned

    Quote Originally Posted by Solarlight View Post
    From the new Captain thread the devs put up, I see a good many people asking for Captains to get the DPS traitline buffed to the expense of healing/buffs, ect

    It bothers me because, for one, I like being able to trait red for groups, and be able to still offheal, offtank, buff, and generaly do a ton of things to be able to help a group out, putting in something like a fixed warspeech for our Red Traitline would hurt something that I see as an integrital part of our class.

    Course, it might just depend on implementations of improvements, the nice thing about RK attunements and Minstrel Warspech is that you can change or turn them off mid battle, however, I still like being able to damage AND heal at the exact some time.

    And yes, it is quite possible to be meleeing someone and firing off WoCs at the same time, you generaly do want to try to go for opened up rallying crys.


    Personaly, I think many of us get stuck in the "Captains are the underdogs of LOTRO" attutide, sure, we have has issues historicly in the game, but every class has had problems too, and really Captains, things arent that terrible.

    Anywhay, If I wanted to be a RK or a Minstrel, I would have rolled one.
    I get what you're saying, and this problem of hybrid balancing has been brought up before the purge. It's a problem that's existed in any game, I think (although I don't want to think of hybrid classes as "problems" per se). Here are the separate issues as I see them.

    Captain balancing in role description vs. trinity play: I personally don't think buffs should suffer at all if "buffer" is the captain class's primary description. Separating that aspect from the trinity role aspects (tank/damage/heal) is one way to maintain our major role. Please note that this also differentiates among hybrid class design, hybrid traiting, and hybrid playstyle. I don't particularly like trait-nerfing other aspects of a hybrid class for the benefits of more specialization either, but that brings me to my next point--

    Ranking in the pack: Jack-of-all-trades hybrid classes are never supposed to be equal to their pure trinity role counterparts. Ever. But this is complicated by how many game mechanics, especially in MMOs, work. Balancing is a nightmare. Buff each trinity aspect too much, and no one will want a pure class when a captain can cover all bases well enough; nerf too much, and the captain won't be called to fill if they're seen as a gimped class. The comparative balancing against pure classes is both a moving target and narrow slice of acceptability (for both captain and other classes).

    I personally don't want too much nerfing of hybridity myself, though I do think our LtC/LoM lines could be differentiated more. I do understand how difficult hybrid classes can be to develop. Blizzard did away with the true hybrid model completely and went with straight specialization via talent trees (traits) and gear sets--even they couldn't figure out how to deal with true hybrids. Turbine may need to make a choice as well.

    It's critical that players understand the difference between "DPS role" (trinity play) and "DPS mode" (esp. solo play). These are different and may not overlap in actual execution (e.g. traiting for "DPS mode" but not being called to be DPS in a group); the practical difference here among captains who talk about DPS fixes is leveling/solo DPS versus viable group roles. The real question is whether overlap is appropriate. Because the comparisons happen a lot, I'll add--buffs to minstrel WS and guardian OP were, from what I understand, to help solo work. Are these modes also being regularly brought into group play? Should they be? If they are, then one argument is that captains should be competitive with the same mode flexibility. But if minstrels and guardians are to be held to their original trinity roles regardless of traiting, then we have to assume that there shouldn't be overlap between role/mode.

    Well, there's a fair bit of other reading that's appropriate for this discussion:
    Captain DPS. Are you *feeling* gimped?
    Guardian's have Overpower, Minstrels have Warspeech, Captains have?????

    This is still the truth as I see it
    Quote Originally Posted by Trilwych View Post
    A true hybrid class is essentially an ongoing identity crisis wrapped in mechanics-balance angst and served on a plate of conflicting expectation. There aren't many other ways one can design a class that's overpowered in skill type+number and underpowered in skill cross-comparison.
    [url="https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?506048-Talent-trees-class-roles-and-player-choice"]Talent trees, class roles, and player choice[/url]
    Crafting crit chance analysis: [URL="https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?410893-Sample-size-THREE-THOUSAND"]3000 sample size[/URL], [URL="https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?420198-Sample-size-ONE-THOUSAND"]1000 sample size[/URL]

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    2,244

    Re: Slightly Concerned

    My concern is that they are asking us for more legacies, when IMHO we have too many already. I'd rather they add skills or fix/update/upgrade/add traits for the skills we already have. I really feel like the last year and a half has been about patching class skills through legacies.
    Clarrow PeopleEater - R12 (resting) BA
    Clarysta
    - Lvl 105 Captain - Wannabe Freep R4
    Twitter - @clarystainsun

  6. #6

    Re: Slightly Concerned

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurkerinthemist View Post
    My concern is that they are asking us for more legacies, when IMHO we have too many already. I'd rather they add skills or fix/update/upgrade/add traits for the skills we already have. I really feel like the last year and a half has been about patching class skills through legacies.
    yeah really. Get rid of all the ones that no one ever uses.

    Pool A

    •To Arms Duration
    •Kick Cooldown (Meh I personally say remove but whatever)
    •Telling Mark Damage
    •Devastating Blow Critical Rating (Remove)
    •Pressing Attack Critical Rating (Remove)
    •Melee Skill Power Cost
    •Maximum Targets for Pressing Attack (new)
    •Morale from Motivating Speech (new)

    Pool B

    •Cry Power Cost (cheaper)
    •Tactics: On Guard Parry Rating Buff
    •Tactics: Relentless Attack' Critical Rating Buff
    •Routing Cry Damage (increased) (Remove)
    •Blade of Elendil Damage (increased)
    •Cutting Attack Bleed Damage (cheaper) (Remove)
    •Defensive Strike Armour Buff (increased) (Remove)
    •Increased Duration of Make Haste (new)

    Pool A

    •Tactics: Focus in-Combat Power Regen Buff
    •Healing from Rallying Cry
    •Rallying Cry Cooldown
    •Valiant Strike Morale Return (new)
    •Healing from Strength of Will
    •Vocal Skills Healing
    •Melee Skills Healing
    •Words of Courage Power and Morale Cost (increased cost) (Remove)

    I would also say remove for VS just for the fact that it is not a very big increase in terms of actual morale returned.

    Pool B

    •Duration of In Defence of Middle-earth (new) (Remove because it's not a cooldown)
    •Time of Need Cooldown
    •Captain's Escape from Darkness Cooldown
    •Muster Courage Cooldown (new)
    •Time of Need Morale Cost (Remove)
    •Grave Wound Cooldown (Remove)
    •Shield of Dúnedain Cooldown (new)
    •Shadow's Lament Cooldown (Remove)

    I read yours C and if I remember correctly I think we both wanted new buffing skills. I've wanted that since SoA I always felt like the minstrel war ballads and such belonged to us!!
    Kraken, Thesungodra

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    3,667

    Re: Slightly Concerned

    [banner|herald] of war - needs +dmg output buff.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0420800000001dbab/01001/signature.png]Fettorin[/charsig]
    Courage is of no value unless accompanied by justice; yet if all men became just, there would be no need for courage. [B]- Agesilaus the Second[/B]

 

 

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload