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  1. #1

    Not all imbued stats are "better" at max?

    Have you noticed that Defensive Strike Armor buff is less, even at max (+4400) vs an unimproved basic LI legacy?

    This is maxed, without any unlocking of extra levels, vs the base legacy on my not yet imbued LI:

    [IMG][/IMG]

    Shouldn't the imbued one be at the minimum for the regular LI at level 28? What am I missing here? Isn't this a temporary buff anyway? What happened?

  2. #2
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    This looks like a bug... What does the legacy cap out at? Tier 35... Still lower than the 4.4k of the unimbued LI? Odd. Usually the ratings go very very high. The only thing I can think of is that the unimbued legacy was manually tweaked by a dev to allow it to start higher (and thus not be useless like most other rating legacies used to be)? Why they'd do this for this one legacy when there are/were so many other stat legacies that suuck, I do not know.

    Again though, to me just looks like a bug. I'd like to see what it caps out at, on tier 35 (or 39 or whatever the new cap is currently).
    Absolution

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Same with RK's shocking touch target resist rating.
    fire rk is just hunt clone without evade, ports and lower mits, or LM clone without CC, pets and 1 less gear slot.
    thx for destroying yellow line and the entire class with it

  4. #4
    Well I can post a comparison of tooltips:

    [IMG][/IMG]

    Not sure what to think of it.

  5. #5
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    Nicely cropped image there... A+ Paint skills. lol.

    Also yeah that's weird. I think the Tier 44 legacy is just a coincidence, really. /bug it and deal with it, I guess.
    Absolution

  6. #6
    Here's something relevant:

    https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthr...71#post7358771

    So part of this is layers of changes. Still even in that thread, a legacy seems to improve after reaching the base tier (looks like T25).

    Edit:

    Aha this is what I needed to make rational choices (thank you whoever made that page): https://lotrotools.pw/legacies.php

    Neither of the two above solves the mystery of the lowered benefit of Defensive Strike Buff though. I could comment generally, but it's just moving cheese around and some of it is quite interesting strategy like the buffs to the Battle ready and hardened state. It looks more and more like I should /bug this.

    It gave me a warning like "be sure you have the legacies you want before imbuing" but that was a canary compared to what happened, many of the ones that changed in U16 and 17 are my favorites... but it looks like they've been added to set bonuses on individual trait trees instead. Probably everyone was making their LI in the same way.
    Last edited by gripply; Nov 01 2015 at 01:40 PM.

  7. #7
    new != better

    By inspire Tank Weapon and Symbol you lose some huge benefits (Pressing Attacks max Targets, SS Armour increasement, SoD lengh, ...), but get at lease the incoming damage reducement and damage on the weapon.

    Had you read the forum before, you would no be surprised :-)

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Laubgaenger View Post
    new != better

    By inspire Tank Weapon and Symbol you lose some huge benefits (Pressing Attacks max Targets, SS Armour increasement, SoD lengh, ...), but get at lease the incoming damage reducement and damage on the weapon.

    Had you read the forum before, you would no be surprised :-)
    Yes you are right, I often assume that I can figure things out as I go because that was the case for years. The in game explanations used to be adequate. For example, few games give as much information about the effect of attributes on secondary stats (so you can figure out the conversions assuming they're linear). I will have to be more careful in the future.

    I too had the same thought... that losing max targets was a big loss (also durations seem to have taken a hit) especially in a skill that more often crits and is part of a casting chain. I like to run (even solo) as a tank now with my imbued 1H+shield. Honestly the buffs seem to make up for the loss (of crit rating) when playing solo, but it limits how useful I can be in fellowship. In a fellowship, I have to carefully time it so I have a force attack or AoE available if the mob gets unruly.

    Maybe I need to think about the IHW skill as a stopgap for that. Also using the pet to infuriate helps a little, but I have to individually target each mob and wait for him to do it if that's my only option left. The cooldown is 15 seconds though, and that's a long time in battle. If I have a mob on me, then I have few distance skills other than the pet, and I don't want to run over and get one unruly mob, dragging the 4 others with me, closer to the others where they might get an AoE or frontal on them. Just one more long distance force attack would solve this problem, at least on a one-mob at a time basis, if a group of them is lost, I have to move of course.

    What would really help is a suggestion.. I like pets because they can be used to pull things to you. The "pet pull" usually involves commanding "attack, back off" if Infuriating tactics could be used to command the pet to bring the mob closer to you (in yellow trait only) as part of a set bonus or something, then I'd feel better about battle chaos management. If IT were aoe and transferred threat to me, that would be perfect, but I think now I'm dreaming. Still, it's what a tank would want their recruited squire to do in an actual battle, not fight them alone, but add a little damage and bring the baddies to me.

    Actually I'm pretty sure that's the tactic the mobs themselves use... they run away, or use archers to bring you into the awareness range of other mobs. It's becoming a cliché that you should always kill the archers first in LOTRO. I'd love to have a "taunt and run to me" skill on a herald, even if it was limited to a modified IT skill available in yellow trait.

    Another thing that would help tanking is some setting in options that shows how far away you are from a mob since some threat skills are not very long range. Maybe there is a mod out there that would fix that, but I haven't had time to look yet. I liked yellow trait when he was below level 35, then mostly switched to blue until now, but I kept using it because I've had him for years and remember all the yellow trait skills better than the new ones. Until imbuing, I'm not sure it was satisfying to use yellow trait much in pve. I'm glad about that.

  9. #9


    it was obvious from such summary... but at least now it will be closer at tier44, woooohooo /sarcasm

    but ok, i can deal with that, what i realy hate are those changes on Emblem:
    1) Last stand duration -> Last stand heal (u16, no matter if u imbue it or not) - thats making such legacy real ####, cuz the heal in t2cm is laughable anyway
    2) Shield of D. - duration-> Inc healing - i realy realy hate such pass Imb. change
    --- those durations were realy worthy for cpt. and i am still waiting with imbuing my tanking Emblem, as more tiers are out... i am missing other boost with non imbuing and it started being significant (i dislike idea to make emblem just for one skill... no slots, raids can lag... oh well)
    3) bleed pulses gone aswell with u16, but i can live without them, just not making me happier

  10. #10
    Pressing Attacks become for all a 5 Target skill.
    I liked the idea to have still 9 (of10) targets inside my attack.

    For Tanking i used a long time my old non Imbrued one, but i switched for fewer Targets on my imbrued one.
    The damage and increased attributes make it in sum easier.
    To be concret, i destroyed my former tank weapon, some days ago, because i did not use it anymore.

    I can tank the Mumakil with the adds of Stardome and also the Spawning Ghosts at the Blade are no problem anymore.
    That i do without a dedicated Tankweapon. And did it the first time with less as 40k Moral fully buffed.

    I take nearly ever the Damage Supporting Herald (of War) for my mates, set it in place and start.
    To Pull i use the yellow mark, if i want singletarget out of the group, or for more distance.
    Else i go, where the fight will start :-)
    I tank typical the with healing mark, because it supports my mates with a hughe amount of returning Moral.

    I have a swap Symbol, but often i used it only to set the increased SoD on Mates, as the Minstrel if the Poison Arrows start hurting her.

    I switched my jewels yesterday.
    2 Rings and one Earring
    I had the Ear and Ring from Osgiliath with Finesse and Crit, and the Pelagier Goldring with Tactical Mit.
    With my Swap-gear-option, i took on one Ring 2x Finesse and 1 Tactical mit (for all Setups).
    And on the other and the Earing Might.
    I own 2 Necks from Osgiliath with Might. They are sloted with Might or Moral. So i can increase my Moral if need.

    I am again down to 20K in Red.

    I use the Mitigation Buff jewels Set with 2 Brace and one Pocket for Tanking.
    As Tank i have around 45k and options to increase it, but do not see any need.
    With overcaped Mit, Crit dev, 29% incoming Heal my Healer love me :-)



    To the Osgiliath Armour.
    Twice as many OB plus one in addition are a huge amount of damage enhancement for the whole Raid, with the Banner your DD will have the chance to update the signature :-)
    The 10% more heal i use often if there is no need of more OB. The Class Essences increase this also.
    I play in Red. This creates the most benefits for my group. For that i play the Captain.
    If you want to increase my personal damage, then the OB Armour would not be the first choice.
    But in Common we, Captains have still the Options to cross the typical setups and can enhance different benefits.

    I go Blue, if there is no Healer in Group. Sometimes in Skirmishes and it works well.

    As long the Red Captain increase Crit (2k), Mastery (4k), and Outgoing Heal (+5%) with the Sure Strike Buff, i can not see an alternative for Grouplay.
    (except you have a second one, or need of Tank / Dedicated Healer)

  11. #11
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    This has been brought up time and time again ever since the imbuement system was introduced. It just looks like Turbine doesn't have any intention of fixing it.
    Former resident of Withywindle now settling in on Laurelin :D

  12. #12
    I just returned to the game after being away since before the imbuement system was there. Where did you see it discussed before? Everything just copies everything else and says pretty much the same thing about imbuing. Until i saw the charts I posted, I didn't question that it would be always better to imbue. Well that may be true, but no messages are given for "changes" made to legacies. There is no confirmation beyond "make sure you have the legacies you want before imbuing" - which is meaningless if they're going to change. If someone is in-game and not doing research ahead of time (probably 90% of players), they're going to wonder "where did this muster thing come from? " etc...

    I ended up keeping the legacy. 3000 is 3000, but I hope it is fixed for pve tanking. Our morale can never be high enough to handle it otherwise. not without sacrificing mit caps and finesse for morale, which would make us a useless tank, so nobody's seriously considering that for captains. I can see why guards are doing it, though.

    I thought maybe it was nerfed on purpose because theoretically in pvp you could sacrifice all other skills and do a one-two button click... well a few of them. But then just nerf it or disable it in pvp and problem solved.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by gripply View Post
    I ended up keeping the legacy. 3000 is 3000, but I hope it is fixed for pve tanking. Our morale can never be high enough to handle it otherwise. not without sacrificing mit caps and finesse for morale, which would make us a useless tank, so nobody's seriously considering that for captains. I can see why guards are doing it, though.

    I thought maybe it was nerfed on purpose because theoretically in pvp you could sacrifice all other skills and do a one-two button click... well a few of them. But then just nerf it or disable it in pvp and problem solved.
    We have many ways to come to the Goal.
    3000 Armour, will be 3000 Armour. Thats also 3000 Phy. Mit. - a bit more as a Phy. Mit. Essence.
    If you have an additional Tanking Weapon then this will be quiet ok, because you have not many smart legacies to pick up.
    Some have mixed Weapons for Tanking & Healing and an other one for Damage.

    After i spend the Scrolls of Empowerment and Cristalls on my one for everything weapon for me it becomes clear that there will be no other weapon beside it.
    With the newest increasment you need 42 Scrolls in addition to max your weapons and 4 Cristalls on top of the other 6.
    For the Symbol the same.

    My resources are not endless and if i would see a huge benefit for having more dedicated weapon then i would do it, but with this little increasment i will not do it.

    Keep in Mind that in osgiliath inis you get % damage depending on you max moral. Much is not ever much. Get a stable buildup and i will work much better for the group.

  14. #14
    You make a lot of good points that I will have to think over. Thank you also for mentioning the %damage in Osgiliath. I didn't know since I wasn't playing it, though it sounds interesting because it is definitely not a faceroll, a kind of return to the old days. I welcome a return to being forced into fellowship and fear of the mobs. I'm not yet joining fellowships until I have time to read the new strategies. I consider my current armor to be "starter" and do a lot of balancing... so that nothing is neglected, but may not be stellar. Physical mit is the only thing I have overcapped for the orc-craft damage, everything else merely approaches caps. Still, I have the experience in the Pelennor fields that I'm behaving as a tank should, I kill a little more slowly solo, but I'm in little danger of dying unless I pull two groups or a mounted scout shows up. In red and even blue trait, I had trouble with either the speed I was killing (giving them a good long chance to dot me to death), or my morale radically bouncing up and down. That's one reason I went back to the familiar tank setup. I think I may wander into Osgiliath just to see how I fare.

  15. #15
    [QUOTE=Laubgaenger;7476111]3000 Armour, will be 3000 Armour. Thats also 3000 Phy. Mit. - a bit more as a Phy. Mit. Essence.
    If you have an additional Tanking Weapon then this will be quiet ok, because you have not many smart legacies to pick up.
    Some have mixed Weapons for Tanking & Healing and an other one for Damage.

    3k whatever, i dont count those for my t2cm build tbh, as sometimes i cant keep it up... its just bonus - same i believe that many dpsers are maxed without such buff anyway for easier going
    about swaps - i dont go even those as i am somehow lazy and my 4 bar lines are completly full and its only more messy and pass u17, not needed anyway imho
    u probably can check new OP meals - lot of stats, resistances... so ie i dont care about Muster courage legacy and so on

    Quote Originally Posted by Laubgaenger View Post
    After i spend the Scrolls of Empowerment and Cristalls on my one for everything weapon for me it becomes clear that there will be no other weapon beside it.
    With the newest increasment you need 42 Scrolls in addition to max your weapons and 4 Cristalls on top of the other 6.
    For the Symbol the same.
    cba with that... honestly as cpt, u dont need Crystals (starlits), its just fancy as supreme morale vs greater ones... i am about t2cm mainly. our dps will be still same #### and i believe Starlits are worthy only for DPS LIs at all
    i maxed it on my red sword, no point at all... emblem is much more meaningless... and if u go healing and so on, u can ignore Starlits completly and better focus on better swap gear (morale/mits... tomes)


    --- basicaly its pretty easy to focus on Main stats, defenses, fill holes with Meal, virtues and ignore things with minor income, or so situational imho

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by NickSlaughter View Post
    3k whatever, i dont count those for my t2cm build tbh, as sometimes i cant keep it up... its just bonus - same i believe that many dpsers are maxed without such buff anyway for easier going
    about swaps - i dont go even those as i am somehow lazy and my 4 bar lines are completly full and its only more messy and pass u17, not needed anyway imho
    u probably can check new OP meals - lot of stats, resistances... so ie i dont care about Muster courage legacy and so on
    To be direct: why you then took this legacy, if you do not count it in?
    Then something like pure Might would be more benefit you.
    Why you cant keep it up? If you want to use that legacy, you need to be in Yellow. Then you are typical the tank and we Captains are very bad missle tanks.
    My Trowing knifes do very low damage :-)


    Quote Originally Posted by NickSlaughter View Post
    cba with that... honestly as cpt, u dont need Crystals (starlits), its just fancy as supreme morale vs greater ones... i am about t2cm mainly. our dps will be still same #### and i believe Starlits are worthy only for DPS LIs at all
    i maxed it on my red sword, no point at all... emblem is much more meaningless... and if u go healing and so on, u can ignore Starlits completly and better focus on better swap gear (morale/mits... tomes)

    --- basicaly its pretty easy to focus on Main stats, defenses, fill holes with Meal, virtues and ignore things with minor income, or so situational imho
    Basical i do not need it - right, But that would max it. It is finished, that is more a thinking problem of me.
    If i would still play active my other classes, then they had get more benefit out of it (and had got the Cristalls).
    A classic DPS would get a bigger increasment of benefits as a captain do, but i am a captain :-)

    I am not the "OR"-Typ of player, i am the "AND"-Typ.
    But is had not include the new bufffood in my math :-)

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Laubgaenger View Post
    To be direct: why you then took this legacy, if you do not count it in?
    Then something like pure Might would be more benefit you.
    Why you cant keep it up? If you want to use that legacy, you need to be in Yellow. Then you are typical the tank and we Captains are very bad missle tanks.
    My Trowing knifes do very low damage :-)
    sure i have it on my yellow 1hnd-er - not sure why i took it, i was maybe big noob 3-4months back as tanking cpt and its going for whole fs, such bluff... but as its +xxx buff and not +x% - u are probably right and i can toss it out (woohoo more replacements from crashy u17)
    about why not using it, sometimes i spam just other things and cant use BuffBar anymore (RC or wang pens are comming with some lag and i can crash, so unloading those plugins...)

    Quote Originally Posted by Laubgaenger View Post
    If i would still play active my other classes, then they had get more benefit out of it (and had got the Cristalls).
    A classic DPS would get a bigger increasment of benefits as a captain do, but i am a captain :-)
    thats what i am saying... but in fs/raid as red, my dps is meaningless anyway (ok i am cpt too, i have maxed starlits there... but its just waste of materials after lightly observation and more like bragging purpose, if we can ever shift our imb. LIs into chat )
    btw after last SG, i counted it, +107% dmg, +15%aspd, some morale and aura - i realy feel insulted when some healing mini is then saying nice Dps - and not: nice buffs, cpt! cuz basicaly its healer+tank combo, cpt and 3dpsers - first 2 dont do dmg, i do #### dmg (and dont care) and those 3 other guys do 2x dmg (not all the times, but still pretty much more)

    - so why bother with starlits? i mean, if cpt is your main and only 100/t2cm char, u wanna do it, i feel the same... but for returning or casual players... startlits are overpriced/overrated ####

    Quote Originally Posted by Laubgaenger View Post
    I am not the "OR"-Typ of player, i am the "AND"-Typ.
    But is had not include the new bufffood in my math :-)
    cba with math anymore... i am running with one empty slot and without Gold cloak, as i am getting only crashes around MT and its so dumb, but wouldnt change anything anymore
    u know... contest is still same ####, mobs are mix of u16/17 - we dont need any boosting at all, as there isnt any higher challenge anymore...
    and yeah, i am slacking with my cook (should master westfold, but that farming... facepalm)

    p.s. i like talking with u, as u bring some other ideas (i cant figure out everything), but most cpts are grumpy, lame, not mains or anonymous

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by NickSlaughter View Post
    cba with math anymore... i am running with one empty slot and without Gold cloak, as i am getting only crashes around MT and its so dumb, but wouldnt change anything anymore
    u know... contest is still same ####, mobs are mix of u16/17 - we dont need any boosting at all, as there isnt any higher challenge anymore...
    and yeah, i am slacking with my cook (should master westfold, but that farming... facepalm)
    It is a good invest to do the job.
    My 2nd Captain is my new Maincook and has to do the Work :-)
    I finished the Crafting tier, but my reputation isnt finished. I use reputation Increasement from the Skirmishcamp.

    The New Tier is very nice !!!
    You farm "something" and you can chose if you want to have taters or beans out of the basket. Nice space reducement and very easy to work with.
    2 Kinds of food, both are even in normal state very nice.
    Bufffood (2nd IDOM), with Vita in addition for the Crit. The normal is still very powerful.
    The other is the Resistance one. Percents on all, and a big value too.


    Quote Originally Posted by NickSlaughter View Post
    p.s. i like talking with u, as u bring some other ideas (i cant figure out everything), but most cpts are grumpy, lame, not mains or anonymous
    Thanks, ./bow
    There are not many Captains, but many player that have also a captain.
    This i have to say and see often.

    Captains could still chose how support the group, but it becomes more complex.
    But in General with some actions we get 80% of the buffs for the group, but many do not even do this.

    We had a discussion how many skills we use in a common fight (not BoD) and come on more as 20.
    Counts high, but have a look on you rotations and what you do else while fighting. Now 20 are not so much more :-)

    ATM i think the Captain is not far away from the Complex work of Wardens.
    And this could be an addition point, why there are also not many Captains.


    btw i am never anonymous, but i do not play in Etten Moors active anymore.
    I had no problems to talk with other Captains. I get also asked, so we can improve the community on this way too.
    The Ettenplayers are anonymous because of the Moors, the others have often something to hide AND do not want Tips or Information for improvement.
    The good Ettenplayers will uncheck anonymous for some Moments, if you want a special information, even if they are in the Moors, so you can get the Information.
    The Badperformer will do that not. To know, that you can not expect much of them, is the information you need.

    This is my perception, but i am also the nice guy :-)
    I am still the nice guy, even if the reality catch me atm. This also depends on the Servermerges, that draws near the time to say goodby to many people that become friends.

 

 

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