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  1. #51

    Re: Feedback: New Player Tips for Burglars

    Quote Originally Posted by BaruDwarf View Post
    This should be required reading for anyone who wants to properly fulfill their role in a group:
    http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/A_Bas...or_Fellowships
    While still a nice read, this post greatly undervalues the burglar, which I suspect is because it predates some of the things we can do now.

    A modern burg can, with a variety of trait setups, have a LOT more crowd control than the 2 listed skills. It also ignores the very important roles of interrupts and corruption removal -- while burglar is not the best at CR, he is hands down the best at interruption (assuming he has a legendary item.... lower levels, champions are better at this role due to cooldowns). It ignores mischief mode, which allows the burg to reapply riddle.

    To update it is complicated though, as it depends on the level of the burglar, his chosen traits, etc, and unfortunately would take a couple of pages of burg details.

    So, let me try to keep it short while improving upon whats there.

    Before level 51:
    The link is more or less correct, and a great guide for lower level players. However note that mid level burglars get mischief mode now, which allows riddle to be reapplied every 30 seconds for 100% lockdown of one enemy.

    After level 51:
    The burglar gains the ability to reliably mez up to 7 mobs in a pull if traited for it:
    1) Aggro, then apply confound to mez 4 of the enemy (traited confound enables this).
    2) HIPS, then apply provoke (traited leafwalker enables this).
    3) riddle one enemy (always possible to do)
    4) Trick/glee one enemy (requires several gambler traits to enable)

    The above is almost always overkill, unless soloing an instance. Normally, if a player can keep 2 of his enemy locked down, that is sufficient, and 75% of the time or more, a single enemy kept on lockdown is all that is required. However it does show what the class *can* do if needed.

    After level 58:
    A feint attack traited burglar with the leafwalker trait, legenday feint attack trait, and a feint attack legendary item can provoke-mez one mob for up to 60 seconds every 15 seconds, for the ability to control 1-2 mobs very effectively using riddle as backup.

    Also note that every class now starts a number of conjunctions at random times, making it less of our job and more of a group-wide job. *Every* player should glance at the power/morale bars of the group an at what FM colors have been used so far. For example, if the champ notices that his healer is out of power, he clicks blue if he is first, or if there are 3 greens he adds a blue to encourage pure of heart, etc. Its a group effort to get what is needed from each CJ rather than the older "follow the burg" mentality. The burg, if he can, still does the "follow the burg" approach to encourage the correct FM to be played, but all too often the FM was started by someone else at random and the burg may not even be the first to click a color. Anyway, as a burg, if you can start a FM and lead the group to heal itself or power up etc, then do so as needed. If the enemy is already immune to FM starter skills, or if someone else starts one, its out of your hands, esp if someone already clicked a color.

    Other minor things wrong with the document can largely be ignored, for example RK and Hunter can be interchanged for the most part, but RK probably did not exist when it was written. Basically, read it, read my burglar specific updates, and take the data with a large grain of salt due to the age of the document ---- the history of the document speaks for itself, the ONLY change since 2008 is to add one line: Wardens are tanks too.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    311

    Re: Feedback: New Player Tips for Burglars

    Quote Originally Posted by lazjen View Post
    Lots of good points already raised.

    When it comes to CC, your riddle can be useful in situations that LMs don't handle well, e.g. undead. Also, you've got a number of "emergency" type stuns/dazes etc that can be triggered directly or with combos/traits (e.g. Startling Twist, Trip).

    In groups, you can off-tank to a limited degree, which can be useful in some situations to lock down mob(s) while the rest of the group is dealing with something else. Be aware though that you have limited ability to grab aggro from others, besides DPS and enrage (while useful, it doesn't transfer aggro specifically and so therefore may cause other issues).

    If you do your build right, you should have few power issues in most battles. If you do find yourself with power issues on a regular basis, review your will/fate/ICPR and your skill rotation (you might be using high power skills too often).

    Remember to use the tricks - mischievous glee heals nicely and now has a chance for power return as well. Throw in Clever Retort when you can - you might get heals or power or damage.

    FMs - there are a few ways to trigger them. For example, get yourself some marbles from a Weaponsmith. Remember also, that in groups, you can always do a HiPS and Trip for another FM.
    Pardon my ignorance, but I'm confused by something I'm reading in this most excellent and informative thread. I am curious what do people mean by "build"?

    I have yet to be able to raise stats based on level advancement, they seem to raise on their own against my will. Did I do something wrong at the beginning? Is the build deed based (some seem to allude to the class deed chains eg the quiet knife)?

    Is it something that one can change later? Have I potentially unwittingly messed it up at level 19? I took a Hobbit Burglar and I believe when I asked I said emphasize agility and I've had no chance that I know of unless there are stored points somewhere waiting to distribute?

    Can someone please explain the basic principles of how one does a "build"? With as few acronyms as possible, or at least define them the first time you use them?

    Thanks so much this thread is fascinating and makes me more excited to play a burglar!

  3. #53
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    1,168

    Re: Feedback: New Player Tips for Burglars

    "Build" refers to the player controlled aspects of your character:
    - equipment (armour, jewellery, weapons - from quest rewards, corpse looting or auction house)
    - traits & virtues (earned from adventuring then equipped at a Bard)

    These are not locked in, so as you collect more equipment, traits and virtues you can swap things around. Equipment can pretty much be swapped around anywhere, but traits and virtues can only be changed at a Bard.

    As you change these things around, your base stats (Might, Agility, Vitality, Fate, Will) vary, which flow on to affect many other things:
    - how much damage you do when fighting
    - how much damage you take when fighting
    - your morale and power levels
    - and much more

    In my opinion, burglars should prioritise their base stats as follows:
    1. Morale and Vitality (1 Vitality gives 3 Morale)
    2. Might (increases damage dealt)
    3. Agility (slightly increase damage dealt)
    [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/duvi/"]Duvi[/URL]
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/04208000000038e43/01000/signature.png]Duvi[/charsig]
    [B][COLOR=RoyalBlue]Vastin[/COLOR][/B]: [I]"But whenever we take feedback on most game systems, such as character builds, economics, or [/I]especially[i] anything to do with PvP, then we are forced to read very carefully between the lines of any and all player feedback, as it is all inevitably skewed by self-investment, self-interest, and a deeply subjective viewpoint that increases in direct proportion to how long or successfully a player has occupied a particular role."[/I]

  4. #54
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    Dec 2010
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    311

    Re: Feedback: New Player Tips for Burglars

    Quote Originally Posted by slack_n_hash View Post
    "Build" refers to the player controlled aspects of your character:
    - equipment (armour, jewellery, weapons - from quest rewards, corpse looting or auction house)
    - traits & virtues (earned from adventuring then equipped at a Bard)

    These are not locked in, so as you collect more equipment, traits and virtues you can swap things around. Equipment can pretty much be swapped around anywhere, but traits and virtues can only be changed at a Bard.

    As you change these things around, your base stats (Might, Agility, Vitality, Fate, Will) vary, which flow on to affect many other things:
    - how much damage you do when fighting
    - how much damage you take when fighting
    - your morale and power levels
    - and much more

    In my opinion, burglars should prioritise their base stats as follows:
    1. Morale and Vitality (1 Vitality gives 3 Morale)
    2. Might (increases damage dealt)
    3. Agility (slightly increase damage dealt)
    Thank you so much for your response you allayed my fears. I'm even more excited to play this game now because it doesn't have blind alleys. You can apparently always adjust your character with traits and equipment.

  5. #55
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    Nov 2008
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    11

    Re: Feedback: New Player Tips for Burglars

    Burglars are not champions, tanks,wardens, no class is the same and it is extreamly not recommanded to play ANY class like another class. You play your class and thats what people want. People want a Burglar, not a tank.

    burglars are diffrent from ALL classes. we are misleading in our combat,i pull tricks no one would of thought of. That is a burg. Never,ever, try to to hold aggro. That is a tanks job. Do not expect to aggro a hole camp and tank on all of them like a champ.

    Our job, our dutie! Is to the art of the burglar.

    The art of the burglar is hard to master. But so much treasure is gained in the process. have a quest to get a order in a camp but dont feel like taking on the enemies inside? No problem. We are burgs will steal behind there backs and no one will ever know we where there.

    when playing a burg you must

    1: when in stealth, be carful dont to be seen, when attacking a enemy in stealth do any debuffs you can like reveal weakness that wont bring you out of stealth.

    2: Remember to put tricks/debuffs on your enemy this is vital!

    3: This applys to almost all classes, do not press/click your skills 20 times in 1 second. a burglar must use careful stratagie in his battles.

    4: burglars do more damage from behind so if you can try to get behind and attack.

  6. #56
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    Apr 2009
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    Seattle, WA
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    578

    Re: Feedback: New Player Tips for Burglars

    Read your skills when you get new ones, and give them some thought. Look into older skills, because much of what the BUR does has to do with interactions between skills.

    When you stun an enemy, get behind it quickly by running through it and doing a 180 with your mouse-look (right-click and hold while you drag). This is infinitely faster than using keys to turn. With practise, you can get your stun off as you are running through them, turn and attack without missing a beat. I like to do Counter Defence after the Startling Twist stuns, then either Surprise Strike or Well-placed Strike, depending on what's up. Especially traited, Counter Defence is a no-brainer when you are getting positional modifiers and looking to crit. Well-placed Strike has a little more than just enough time to execute in this circumstance if you do nothing else but add a Trick when you first rotate. If you get very very good at this, you can get away with Aim, as well.

    If you are expecting to be up against one or two enemies, a Stealth-based approach seems faster, if riskier, as unexpected adds can be more difficult to manage. If you are expecting to fight multiples (not counting rinky-dink swarms like the Moria-keeper's bats, which fall easily to Knives Out), back off and find a safe place to break Stealth, then enter Mischief.

    Mez-pulling is a great tool solo or in groups. Basically you mez whatever you want mezzed, and everything else comes for you. Ranged attackers who will not politely come into melee range can be forced to oblige with a yellow line trait that causes them to be extremely likely to engage you in melee when you use Enrage.

    As far as "emergency" skills that feed trait deed progress, I suggest that whenever you login to your BUR, you pop those skills and go on about your administrative business, like moving inventory, crafting, etc. This is the same way my CHN painlessly got the Controlled Burn trait.

  7. #57

    Re: Feedback: New Player Tips for Burglars

    I'm loving my Burglar more and more as I hit level 22 last night. Anyone have more tips to add to this? I know it's an old thread, and maybe it's run it's course. But I'm eager for more nuggets of knowledge that I can pilfer from my fellow burglars.

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    1

    Thumbs up Re: Feedback: New Player Tips for Burglars

    I have made it to 35 and I am loving it, Sure your burg is much different from others, but they have a skill all there own. Who needs to kill trash? sure you may get loot, but thats only going to kick you in the butt later.

    As was said many times, you got to think ahead, look at the mobs, figure whos your target and choose your combo. and reading else where Burgs are the handy man.

    I figure it more affective using trip then beat the heck out of them from behind, riddle the more threatening foe when they approached, and if you got more then you expect, I find if you hit tap and use each of your tricks on each so they would deal less damage too you then they would normally do, while this touch and go would fit in nicely . But after all this is done, you have all your cool downs going. guess what! just go stealth and hide in a corner. This promotes PIPE-WEED! but the moral of this story is, Its much more difficult to handle big groups, so take your time, its only a game. (for those who think its only a game. ) if you can't take your time then this burg business is not your business

    Gamble : I personally enjoy this but it is kinda difficult to pull off on weak/trash mobs, by the time you Get one off, they are dead! I personally like info on when is the best time to use this.. Big bosses is the only one I can think of, but other then this little set back it is cool seeing a dice above the monsters head, tell you, you got a 6.

    Quiet knives :seems to be more of the poplar choice, but I run out of power often with this. Too many Critical-hits, if only Crits did more like heal!... then we would be invincible .
    and Finally
    mischief maker: Great for groups stuff. mass dust in the eyes, will save a Protectors life :P more time to Riddle does not hurt. turning 8% in to 10% reveal weakens and many other nifty features.

    if you wishing for a world of hurting, DO Burg and Historian.... Don't recommend this, takes too long to Farm relics But those pots Are vary handy.
    Last edited by Kayis; Mar 02 2011 at 04:11 AM.

  9. #59

    Re: Feedback: New Player Tips for Burglars

    It seems strange to me that no one has mentioned diversion in this thread yet. I found it to be absolutely necessary skil to have when you do a lot of sneaking on to mobs.

    Everyone knows this annoying situation when you're sneaking in to hit the mob but when you're half-way there the creature just takes off walking away from you and you have to chase it around which is not easy while in sneak.

    And that's where diversion really shines! When you use diversion the enemy stops for a few seconds aven if it was going somewhere before. This just gives you enough time to get to attack range and unleash your best hit!

    Personally whenever I'm fighting lots of beasts or creatures of nature I tend to use Diversion on every mob even if its stationary because you never know when it decides to start walking away. Plus this skill's animation can be performed while moving so i see absolutely no reason not to use it. It definitely saved me a lot of nerves.

    And another thing that I wanted to add to this great thread is that as burglar in most cases you can do higher level quests (yellow, orange, even red sometimes) and do use this opportunity especially when it comes to Epic quests. They usually offer some nice rewards and quests' rewarded items are dirrefent to, say, crafted ones because they are BoA and usually have no lvl restrictions. So by doing high-level content early you can make your life so much easier just by getting equipped with nice gear well ahead of your level.

  10. #60
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    Re: Feedback: New Player Tips for Burglars

    Diversion is also great if you want to sneak past mobs. They are much less likely to see you if you can face them away.
    [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/duvi/"]Duvi[/URL]
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/04208000000038e43/01000/signature.png]Duvi[/charsig]
    [B][COLOR=RoyalBlue]Vastin[/COLOR][/B]: [I]"But whenever we take feedback on most game systems, such as character builds, economics, or [/I]especially[i] anything to do with PvP, then we are forced to read very carefully between the lines of any and all player feedback, as it is all inevitably skewed by self-investment, self-interest, and a deeply subjective viewpoint that increases in direct proportion to how long or successfully a player has occupied a particular role."[/I]

  11. #61

    Re: Feedback: New Player Tips for Burglars

    Oh and if you ever find yourself going for all-burglar instance (which happens sometimes) then that's where Enrage really shines as you don't have a proper tank. This way you can spread the damage among all six of you which is enough for most cases.

  12. #62
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    Apr 2011
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    Thumbs up Re: Feedback: New Player Tips for Burglars

    Very great tips for new players like myself Currently a level 22 Human-Burg

    Would like to add as well:

    1. Know your cooldowns - if you do, you can go non stop killing mobs without even topping up using a potion. I literally went straight from 0% to 50% with 1 run just going around this spot filled with those orcs north of bree. stopping only because I need to run to get more mobs...and because my hands were tired hehe.

    2. Get a rotation down. Same as #1. Plus get a comfortable layout for your skills, so you dont need to look at your skillbar all the time while fighting.

    3. Know your skills - like what they have mentioned read it, practice it.

    4. And lastly...do not panic!

    I did #1 with the mishief stance. So mischief+riddle was a big part of my CC. And yeah keep using that evade skill and not just on emergency situations. I also tend to head into a mob of 2 to 3 just to put myself in the worst situation possible to practice my burglar skills, but I guess that's how i play solo (of course in raids playstyle should be different).

  13. #63
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    Dec 2010
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    2

    Question Re: Feedback: New Player Tips for Burglars

    Should a burglar use two daggers or a sword? i have both options so i could use some help.

  14. #64
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    Apr 2007
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    3,638

    Re: Feedback: New Player Tips for Burglars

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexo2cool View Post
    Should a burglar use two daggers or a sword? i have both options so i could use some help.
    Whatever gives you the best stats while leveling up.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0c2140000000006e1/01004/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

    "...damn you burglars with your endless bag of tricks and utility belts." -Orion

  15. #65
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    Re: Feedback: New Player Tips for Burglars

    The top of the spire in the middle of the giants in misty mountains is too far for safe fall to save you.

  16. #66
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    May 2007
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    NJ
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    Cool Re: Feedback: New Player Tips for Burglars

    Tip: Kill as many creeps as you can... B)

  17. #67

    Smile Re: Feedback: New Player Tips for Burglars

    To all new burglars from lvl 20-65 do not think that qk is always the way to go . Try experiementing with pure mischief maker traits.Though people say dont treat i burglar like a champion i use it like one in many diferent ways.For starters 3 of one type of any human/orc/goblin type mob can by any burglar easily be dealt with.Riddle the first,drop disable on the second then use startling twist.Now at this point u have about 7 seconds to kill the 3rd enemy apart of the mob which u should be able to rap up quick.Now the second one comes back drop a second disable on him and u mischevious glee which heals u up to max about, then finish him.Then the one u riddle comes back and sense u have mischief activated it takes 30 seconds cool down for riddle and riddle last 30 seconds so its up to u if u want to riddle the last one or finish him easy.So for me i dont know if other burgs do this but like any other tanking class i run in there and can take down 3-4 guys with much ease.Unlike qk where u want to finish fights fast as possible time is on your side with mischief activated.Anyways if anything goes wrong and the mob get some really lucky stuns u can touch and go and finish mob with that or u can use Hips and get outa there.=] Just wanted to bring to all burglars attention that slinking in shadows and backstabbing enemies[as fun as that is] isnt the only option. i have played through 4 burgs to about lvl 30 then started over until now i have my lvl 37 burg who im going to get lvl 65 with.In all my years of lotro i have only died once on all my burgs....and that was because i didnt use practice fall in time=] So my last thing trust in your burgs on your abilities to make it out of every fight alive ud be surpised how long a burglar can last in any fight=] anyways hopes this help=] mischeif for the win.Also[last thing] clever retort which comes when u have mischief activated opens up so many possibilities a sigificant self-heal.a pure damage,and an over time damage and a i dont know about the last one for shure but an evade self buff.All for only 34 power this itself makes me love mischeif even more.
    Last edited by 16tiger16; Sep 04 2011 at 07:09 PM.

  18. #68
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    Florida
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    Re: Feedback: New Player Tips for Burglars

    Great thread, it has a ton of useful info. Thanks! Can't wait to learn a few tricks of my own to share here.

  19. #69
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    Jun 2011
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    1st cave near lug1
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    Re: Feedback: New Player Tips for Burglars

    Try to always have your evade rating high.You will notice great difference in pvp especially if u cap it (->25%).It means that in 4 attacks u take u evade the one and in combination with T&G u are untouchable.
    Parry rating is important too btw.

  20. #70
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    Jun 2011
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    4

    Re: Feedback: New Player Tips for Burglars

    Quote Originally Posted by 16tiger16 View Post
    For starters 3 of one type of any human/orc/goblin type mob can by any burglar easily be dealt with.Riddle the first,drop disable on the second then use startling twist.Now at this point u have about 7 seconds to kill the 3rd enemy apart of the mob which u should be able to rap up quick.Now the second one comes back drop a second disable on him and u mischevious glee which heals u up to max about, then finish him.Then the one u riddle comes back and sense u have mischief activated it takes 30 seconds cool down for riddle and riddle last 30 seconds so its up to u if u want to riddle the last one or finish him easy
    Worth pointing out that your Riddle now affects any creature type not just human/orc/goblin. Which is rather lovely

    An alternate way of dealing with 3 mobs that you can't separate, particularly if you are QK and more bleed traited, is open with Well Placed Strike, maybe top up with a Cunning Attack then pop a Disable on it. Riddle the next. Reveal Weakness (do it before, if you can) + Dust on the third. Startling Twist and Counter Defence. Get behind and go for it ! Replace Twist with Exploit Opening. Touch and Go if needed, and this is particularly nice as if you have Stick and Move, as you should be able to keep your Crit Chain up evading the bleeding mob whilst stabbing his mate in the back.

    Takes a bit of planning, but when it works you finish off one mob, just as the 2nd drops dead from his wounds, and the 3rd wakes up. Just make sure you have enough bleed damage !

  21. #71
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    Oct 2010
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    Re: Feedback: New Player Tips for Burglars

    Remember you have many tools! utilize them! all the tricks you have are great reducing damage can be good anywhere and also increasing your enemies miss chance. Also you can use a trick and then use mischevious glee or startling twist to turn the battle tides.

    mischevious glee can be activated after preforming a succesful trick, this skill adds a heal and a small HoT or heal over time

    Startling twist can be used after preforming a succesful trick and depending on what grade of startling swist you have will have this effect
    Stun a single target for 8 seconds regardless of taking damage
    Stun a single target for 8 seconds regardless of taking damage and removes corruption
    Stun up to three targets for 8 seconds regardless of taking damage and removes corruption

    tricks are important to combat. Remeber bend the guidelines of skills get creative. use skills for new uses!

  22. #72
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    Re: Feedback: New Player Tips for Burglars

    play a range DPS class if you want to play in the moors. turbine has taken away every unique class skill or made it useless in the moors. Run from this class if pvp is your end point.

  23. #73
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    Re: Feedback: New Player Tips for Burglars

    Quote Originally Posted by ifreborn1 View Post
    play a range DPS class if you want to play in the moors. turbine has taken away every unique class skill or made it useless in the moors. Run from this class if pvp is your end point.
    Not true despite the many nerfs thrown at burgs we still can survive. tracking has long cooldown and you need to pay commendations for the trait to track stealth. We still have auto crit at level 70 3 survival cooldowns 2 damage cooldowns and 2 cooldown resets. A great tip STACK AGILITY. I can't stress this enough agilit gives evade and you can survive beeter when playing in the moors. You need to just adapt to the changes when they come. We will get class love in the future.
    Wardens minstrels... We will in time.

  24. #74
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    May 2008
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    If you are being asked to keep a mob mezzed, 'on lockdown' w/e by your group while they pummel other mobs, hover over the mob you are to mezz and click 'h'. Will bring up a box with the mobs name. Makes it very easy to retarget the mob when your riddle needs to be reapplied.

  25. #75

    Burglar is nice dps character, heres proof


 

 
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