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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
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    13

    Cool Why no female dwarves??

    I have been plying for quite awhile and have seen females of every other race but dwarf. Why is this?In the loading pic for festival when logging in I see hobbits , elves and man but no dwarfs.
    Why are dwarfs being excluded.?

    On a different note I think that bound objects should be useable by all toons a person has created, not just the 1 that obtains it.
    That way if 1 of his/her toons can use it then they just have to put it in the shared bank account for their other toon to obtain and use it.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    296

    Re: Why no female dwarves??

    I am sure someone will post the passage out of the books, but according to Tolkien there is no male/female distinction with the appearance of dwarves.

    So females dwarves look the same as males, with the beards and everything.

    I really like the fact that you are just a dwarf, one of the great little bits of attention to detail that are so prevalent in this game.

    But on this note, I have wondered why it always refers to the character as a "he" in the chat box. It's quite easy to sub out "his" for "their" or "he" for "they" which would be much more appropriate, as only dwarves can tell the difference between dwarves. One of my friends is adamant she is playing a girl dwarf.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/042080000001aad21/01004/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Moscow, Russia
    Posts
    468

    Re: Why no female dwarves??

    Quote Originally Posted by hamle View Post
    So females dwarves look the same as males, with the beards and everything...

    But on this note, I have wondered why it always refers to the character as a "he" in the chat box. It's quite easy to sub out "his" for "their" or "he" for "they" which would be much more appropriate...
    Yes, there are quite a few female dwarves in the game.

    The reason for the pronoun choice is that in their native tongue, there is only a single pronoun. So dwarves speaking common only use "he/him/his".

    "They/their" might be common to use today when gender is uncertain, but it's not really grammatically correct to use in the case of a single subject.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    Texas
    Posts
    1,076

    Re: Why no female dwarves??

    Take a dwarf character; dress "him" in a cosmetic dress; give "him" a female name. Voila! Female dwarf. Role play the lady appropriately.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Moscow, Russia
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    468

    Re: Why no female dwarves??

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreegan View Post
    Take a dwarf character; dress "him" in a cosmetic dress; give "him" a female name. Voila! Female dwarf. Role play the lady appropriately.
    Or without taking it to that extreme of obviousness, there are plenty of different and very Dwarvish looks in the game. With the right gear, the right colours, the right accessories, and the right hair and beard styles you could have a much more "feminine" looking dwarf than the other extreme of excessively hirsute and stocky "masculine" Dwarves.

    The various light armour sets, medium armour shoulders and gauntlets (and perhaps boots), a good cape, and perhaps the Dwarven Circlet, all colour-coordinated courtesy of your chosen dyes and you could have a good looking Dwarf lass regardless of your class.

    Or just run right past subtle and go for a Dwarvish dress and the flowered head-band.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Iowa
    Posts
    513

    Re: Why no female dwarves??

    What?? There are no female dwarves??

    I'll have to tell Elsbetha...perhaps she needs to check her "parts".


    But yeah, as other people have mentioned, a dwarf is a dwarf and you can play them as whichever gender you please. My dwarf wears a dress and a turquoise circlet, and has some less grizzly looking hair and beard. She looks like quite a delicate flower for a dwarf!

    The only drawback is that the game still considers you a "he" in some of the dialogue and the occasional title. On the other hand, that's fitting with lore...so it's not bad. Besides, it's better to be called a "he" than a "they"....that's been driving me nuts lately. "Durchest has broken Sonsy of their fear!" Ugh...I am NOT a THEY! :P I'm as bad about saying and writing that as anyone, but not it published text.
    [COLOR="#FF0000"]Sonsy 85 Hunter[/COLOR];[COLOR="#008000"] Lodellee 85 Minstrel[/COLOR]; [COLOR="#B22222"]Bellamee 85 Guardian[/COLOR]; [COLOR="#006400"]Tennac 84 Champion[/COLOR]; [COLOR="#DAA520"]Sunnwyn 78 Captain[/COLOR]; [COLOR="#cccccc"]Missgrey 76 Lore-master[/COLOR]; [COLOR="#0000FF"]Pwnie 55 Burglar[/COLOR]; [COLOR="#996633"]Meowzen 48 Warden[/COLOR];[COLOR="#EE82EE"] Elsbetha 12 Rune-keeper[/COLOR]
    [B]Leader[/B] - Protectors of the Free [I]and [/I]Free of the Protectors - Firefoot

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Moria
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    Re: Why no female dwarves??

    There are female dwarves, but female dwarves see no reason to bring attention to it.

    I personally think that Gimli was female.
    [CENTER][SIZE=4][FONT=Palatino Linotype]Carpe Jugulum[/FONT][/SIZE]
    [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/silverlode/bo/"][COLOR=#00ffff][I][B][SIZE=4] B[/SIZE]o[/B][/I][/COLOR][/URL] [COLOR=yellow]- Dwarf Champion[/COLOR][SIZE=1][COLOR=white],[/COLOR][/SIZE] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/silverlode/quasicrystoberylspar/"][COLOR=#00ffff][I][B][SIZE=4]Q[/SIZE]uasicrystoberylspar [/B][/I][/COLOR][/URL][COLOR=yellow] - Hobbit Burglar[/COLOR] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/silverlode/deadeye/"][COLOR=#00ffff][I][B][SIZE=1],[/SIZE] [SIZE=4]D[/SIZE]eadeye[/B][/I][/COLOR][/URL] [COLOR=yellow]- Human Archer[/COLOR] [SIZE=1][COLOR=plum]and[/COLOR] [/SIZE][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/silverlode/slowhand/"][B][I][COLOR=#00ffff][SIZE=4] S[/SIZE]lowhand[/COLOR][/I][/B][/URL][COLOR=yellow]- Elf Minstrel[/COLOR][/CENTER]
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    NYC
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    Re: Why no female dwarves??



    OH,. they are out there,...

  9. #9

    Re: Why no female dwarves??

    Quote Originally Posted by notallthere View Post
    On a different note I think that bound objects should be useable by all toons a person has created, not just the 1 that obtains it.
    That way if 1 of his/her toons can use it then they just have to put it in the shared bank account for their other toon to obtain and use it.
    Bound to account items are coming with the next update (a few anyway)

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    1,555

    Re: Why no female dwarves??

    Pretty sure dorfs are just dorfs.
    [LEFT][charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/04208000000038004/01005/signature.png]undefined[/charsig][/LEFT]

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    Baton Rouge, La
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    80

    Re: Why no female dwarves??

    It lookah likah man!






    *ahem* male dwarf *ahem*
    Last edited by Winnfield; Aug 26 2010 at 11:39 AM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    426

    Re: Why no female dwarves??

    There are, it is just that you cant tell the difference.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Killing a Boogan somm'ers, 'cause they remind me of Bogarts.
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    Re: Why no female dwarves??

    Personally I've never bought into the all female dwarves have beards theory.
    To me, it's like saying all Amish have beards.

  14. #14
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    Jan 2007
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    actual join date: Oct '06
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    Re: Why no female dwarves??

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascus View Post
    There are female dwarves, but female dwarves see no reason to bring attention to it.

    I personally think that Gimli was female.
    how else would you explain Gimli's attraction to Legolas.......



  15. #15

    Re: Why no female dwarves??

    Talk to a few of the dwarven NPC's in the 21st Hall, it's pretty clear that Turbine at least believes there are female dwarves. With dreadful voice acting as a racial trait.

    Sorry, Turbine, it had to be said.


  16. #16
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    actual join date: Oct '06
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    Re: Why no female dwarves??

    Quote Originally Posted by Toranoga View Post
    Personally I've never bought into the all female dwarves have beards theory.
    To me, it's like saying all Amish have beards.
    im sorry but as someone from Pennsylvania i dont see the correlation...Amish is not a race but a religious based life-style.


    dorfs are more like SNL's Pat then anything else.

    there is no clear definition of male female dorfs to outsiders because dorfs are an androgynous race.


  17. #17

    Re: Why no female dwarves??

    This Thread

    http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=350705

    Will answer your question.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Killing a Boogan somm'ers, 'cause they remind me of Bogarts.
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    Re: Why no female dwarves??

    Quote Originally Posted by Darej View Post
    im sorry but as someone from Pennsylvania i dont see the correlation...Amish is not a race but a religious based life-style.
    All Amish have beards right? This is what most people would say. Even though the females don't and neither do the unmarried males.

    Plus if the Amish closeted all their females so no one other than an Amish saw them, then they were to dress one as a male and you saw her in passing you would think her male.

    This is what Tolkien was saying. Her never stated female dwarves have beards.

    Quote Originally Posted by Darej View Post
    dorfs are more like SNL's Pat then anything else.

    there is no clear definition of male female dorfs to outsiders because dorfs are an androgynous race.

    Where did Tolkien say that? He just said that females are so rarely seen and they dress like males when outside, so non-dwarves wouldn't know they were looking at a female.

    Let's say this is a picture of a female dwarf and a male.

    They both look male don't they?
    Of course in this case the are. It's Rankin Bass' Ori and Nori, but you can't see the ones beard and can only assume his gender. Get my point.
    Last edited by Toranoga; Aug 27 2010 at 08:41 AM.

  19. #19
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    Feb 2007
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    12,677

    Re: Why no female dwarves??

    Quote Originally Posted by Toranoga View Post
    Personally I've never bought into the all female dwarves have beards theory.
    The books say quite explicitly that outsiders cannot tell male and female dwarves apart because they're so similar in looks, voice, and dress (when travelling abroad). In The Hobbit, Bilbo says that he's glad he can never be mistaken for a dwarf because he has no beard. And in both books, not a single dwarf is ever described without a beard. Indeed, they have sayings in their culture like "may your beard never grow thin!". Beards are their pride and joy.

    Given all of that, it's no great surprise that they just don't let people pick an explicit gender for dwarves (although it would be nice if they allowed other dwarves to be able to tell on Inspect as a racial perk). You just decide for yourself what you are, and play that way. If males and females cannot be told apart by outsiders, that means the female dwarves have beards, have voices like the males, and either don't have dramatic physical differences - or else are good at covering them up.

    Khafar

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    808

    Re: Why no female dwarves??

    Yeah, lore states other races cannot tell them apart. WE are the race of man and therefore can't see the subtle distinction while playing the game. I'm sure it's there, though. j/k

    Anyhow, anyone roleplaying a female dwarf needs to be aware that females rarely come "outside" and go adventuring. If you're going to roleplay a female dwarf, you should be sure to have a convincing backstory to support leaving your home. Granted only the more hardcore roleplayers will find fault with you if you don't have a convincing backstory, but if you care about roleplaying, you should put in the effort to follow the lore. Otherwise, why are you roleplaying?

  21. #21

    Re: Why no female dwarves??

    Hmm...given what we've covered in this discussion, I wonder how many women play as dwarves? I myself have never created a dwarf, but that's because of the running animation, not the beards.

    I suppose no one knows except Turbine, and like the dwarves, they're not talking.


  22. #22
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Killing a Boogan somm'ers, 'cause they remind me of Bogarts.
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    Re: Why no female dwarves??

    Quote Originally Posted by Khafar View Post
    The books say quite explicitly that outsiders cannot tell male and female dwarves apart because they're so similar in looks, voice, and dress (when travelling abroad). In The Hobbit, Bilbo says that he's glad he can never be mistaken for a dwarf because he has no beard. And in both books, not a single dwarf is ever described without a beard. Indeed, they have sayings in their culture like "may your beard never grow thin!". Beards are their pride and joy.

    Given all of that, it's no great surprise that they just don't let people pick an explicit gender for dwarves (although it would be nice if they allowed other dwarves to be able to tell on Inspect as a racial perk). You just decide for yourself what you are, and play that way. If males and females cannot be told apart by outsiders, that means the female dwarves have beards, have voices like the males, and either don't have dramatic physical differences - or else are good at covering them up.

    Khafar
    I've seen a few females in real life that when dressed as a male you would not be able to tell the difference. I've even seen some with beards. And we are all humans.

    Tolkien never said female dwarves have beards. It is conjuncture on others part.

    Quote Originally Posted by Riamus View Post
    Yeah, lore states other races cannot tell them apart. WE are the race of man and therefore can't see the subtle distinction while playing the game. I'm sure it's there, though. j/k

    Anyhow, anyone roleplaying a female dwarf needs to be aware that females rarely come "outside" and go adventuring. If you're going to roleplay a female dwarf, you should be sure to have a convincing backstory to support leaving your home. Granted only the more hardcore roleplayers will find fault with you if you don't have a convincing backstory, but if you care about roleplaying, you should put in the effort to follow the lore. Otherwise, why are you roleplaying?
    The lore also would not allow Hobbits to be played.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    601

    Re: Why no female dwarves??

    Has anyone noticed the difference in voices of 2 of the dwarfs in the crafting hall in the 21st hall? They sound as if they could be female. The voice is not quite as guttural and a bit quieter. Check it out....never know.

  24. #24

    Re: Why no female dwarves??

    Quote Originally Posted by hamle View Post
    ..But on this note, I have wondered why it always refers to the character as a "he" in the chat box. It's quite easy to sub out "his" for "their" or "he" for "they" which would be much more appropriate, as only dwarves can tell the difference between dwarves. One of my friends is adamant she is playing a girl dwarf.
    Especially in light of JRRT's linguistic background, that would be a HIDEOUS error to put in the game since you're asking them to mismatch quantities with "he/she/they." "They" & "their" would be totally wrong grammatically.. Just sayin'
    [I][COLOR=#daa520][FONT=comic sans ms]~ Occasional Taunter of Masked Badgers[/FONT][FONT=comic sans ms] ~[/FONT][/COLOR][/I]

  25. #25

    Re: Why no female dwarves??

    Quote Originally Posted by Alfrodul View Post
    .."They/their" might be common to use today when gender is uncertain, but it's not really grammatically correct to use in the case of a single subject.
    I KNEW I should have read all the posts before responding..
    [I][COLOR=#daa520][FONT=comic sans ms]~ Occasional Taunter of Masked Badgers[/FONT][FONT=comic sans ms] ~[/FONT][/COLOR][/I]

 

 
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