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  1. #1

    Captain or Burglar?

    Hello,

    I am thinking about coming back to LOTRO, again. With an early teen Burgler, and a Captain in his late 20's, I am considering playing one of them this time around. I really like the idea of being a debuffer, it's a class that you do not find in every mmo, and I get to do a good deal of dps. Very appealing.

    With the Captain tho, I have gotten compliments while playing with him. I even solo heroic Weathertop at even level. I am a multi-tasker, and can do it well.

    Either class I play will be played well, I think. I do not have any end-game plans, as I not even have the latest expansion. Tho if I reach this level cap and wish to go on, I will buy it.

    My friend wants a tank to play with, but frankly tanking is dreadfully boring in groups. Challenging, but boring. This is one reason why I do not sway towards playing my captain. I'd rather be in the background, running around doing my thing.

    Which class do you think would have a greater impact if said class was consistently played well?

    Captain? Burglar?

    Thanks.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/032020000002df585/01008/signature.png]Malasphant[/charsig]

  2. #2

    Re: Captain or Burglar?

    either class played well brings a lot to the table.

    captains bring buffs, heals and the ability to off-tank 1 or 2 mobs. i have personally never been in a group that has even attempted to let a captain tank, so that shouldnt be a big problem. you also bring the ability to rez in-cambat, one with a lond induction, the other with a brief window to use after someone dies.

    burglars bring debuffs(and a crit chance buff with counter-defence), CC, and the ability to start conjunctions(fellowship manuveurs) as a burg the biggest thing you will be specifucally asked to do is keep a mob CC'd, or to start a cj/fm to help with an emergency heal, or for power(rarely see people asking for them for damage anymore).

    as for dps;captains are basically at the bottom of the ladder, while burgs are more dependent on crits. however, even without lots of crits, burg dps is higher imo.

    in either case you will be in the backgroud, however moreso with the burg IMO
    Lugbur, R11 Reaver ./. Guthfred, R9 Captain ./. Guthblade, R9 Chamption ./. Muzluck, R9 Warg + Various other toons of different rank and class.

  3. #3

    Re: Captain or Burglar?

    well if you want to be in the background doing your own thing, I'd say cappie. I always notice if the burg isn't doing the correct thing. Reveal weakness is pretty obvious, being behind a mob DPSing is pretty obvious, as is counter defence/disable/DiTE (or lack of ). Eh maybe I am biased because I have both classes, but I think more people will notice a bad burglar than a bad captain.

    Anyway, both are fun to play at 65. I enjoy my captain more in raids, my burg more in 6man-solo stuff.

    oh and I might be confused, but just to clarify, captains aren't a tanking class. They "can" tank, but so can a burg and a RK and a LM, etc. They are an off-healing, off-DPS, buffing class.
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  4. #4

    Re: Captain or Burglar?

    Quote Originally Posted by IGolbezI View Post
    well if you want to be in the background doing your own thing, I'd say cappie. I always notice if the burg isn't doing the correct thing. Reveal weakness is pretty obvious, being behind a mob DPSing is pretty obvious, as is counter defence/disable/DiTE (or lack of ). Eh maybe I am biased because I have both classes, but I think more people will notice a bad burglar than a bad captain.

    Anyway, both are fun to play at 65. I enjoy my captain more in raids, my burg more in 6man-solo stuff.

    oh and I might be confused, but just to clarify, captains aren't a tanking class. They "can" tank, but so can a burg and a RK and a LM, etc. They are an off-healing, off-DPS, buffing class.
    in the groups i am in on my 65hunt or 63lm, when there is a burg, i will rarely see RW or a trick(only tricks on main target, not on any of the other mobs) and no one has ever asked the burg for them. this is all in pugs of course. kin groups are different.

    most people seem to notice if they arent buffed, or have the wrong buff in some cases.
    thats why i personally think burg is more in the background.

    in the end it is the OP's decision and i hope he enjoys the class he picks.
    Lugbur, R11 Reaver ./. Guthfred, R9 Captain ./. Guthblade, R9 Chamption ./. Muzluck, R9 Warg + Various other toons of different rank and class.

  5. #5
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    Re: Captain or Burglar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Replica View Post
    Hello,

    I am thinking about coming back to LOTRO, again. With an early teen Burgler, and a Captain in his late 20's, I am considering playing one of them this time around. I really like the idea of being a debuffer, it's a class that you do not find in every mmo, and I get to do a good deal of dps. Very appealing.

    With the Captain tho, I have gotten compliments while playing with him. I even solo heroic Weathertop at even level. I am a multi-tasker, and can do it well.

    Either class I play will be played well, I think. I do not have any end-game plans, as I not even have the latest expansion. Tho if I reach this level cap and wish to go on, I will buy it.

    My friend wants a tank to play with, but frankly tanking is dreadfully boring in groups. Challenging, but boring. This is one reason why I do not sway towards playing my captain. I'd rather be in the background, running around doing my thing.

    Which class do you think would have a greater impact if said class was consistently played well?

    Captain? Burglar?

    Thanks.
    As someone who has a cpt in the mid 30, a burglar at 45 and plenty of end-game experience; I have to say that a good burg has a greater impact than a good cpt in 6 players grp. Buffs are not mandatory and a burglar can bring a lot to a group: Conjunctions, some CC, great debuff, excellent dmg. Burglar are also easier to level than a captain. The good one are rare though.

    Like Golbez, I have seen many terrible burglar and they are easy to spot ( I facepalm every time I run SG with a burglar with no mischief up), while a captain is the guy in the shadow that just make life easier for everyone. He has no real pressure other than assist his fellowship and keep the buff ready.
    Help mini with healing, can tank a little to remove agro the tank could not catch, buff, some interesting debuff, interrupt, ok damage... Alway welcome in group and fantastic for duo/trio.
    Captain is the guy nobody will thanks at the end of a good run, while everyone will say compliment to the mini or the tank. It's the class that create heroes ^^. If you want a challenge though, go with burglar, they are equally as good in duo, because of conjunction move.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0220400000011b249/01007/signature.png]Elronir[/charsig]

  6. #6
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    Re: Captain or Burglar?

    Lots of options for both classes. I would say play both until level 30, see how you feel then....and go from there. You'll definitely get a little bit more of a feel for each class....and you'll also see how skirmishes work, which will give you a better indication of how you handle other content

    Both are insanely enjoyable for me....it all depends on what mood I'm in But your mileage will vary, of course....so give them both a try and see what works the best.

    What class is your friend asking you to play a tankish type? Are they are RK or Minstrel or something else?
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  7. #7

    Re: Captain or Burglar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mykkul View Post
    Lots of options for both classes. I would say play both until level 30, see how you feel then....and go from there. You'll definitely get a little bit more of a feel for each class....and you'll also see how skirmishes work, which will give you a better indication of how you handle other content

    Both are insanely enjoyable for me....it all depends on what mood I'm in But your mileage will vary, of course....so give them both a try and see what works the best.

    What class is your friend asking you to play a tankish type? Are they are RK or Minstrel or something else?

    He has a hunter, and a mini. However I think he prefers the hunter.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/032020000002df585/01008/signature.png]Malasphant[/charsig]

  8. #8
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    Re: Captain or Burglar?

    Considering that your friend prefers the hunter, let me share my experience here.

    I have a 65 Capt and a 63 Burg. I leveled up the burglar with my wife's hunter. It is a pretty awkward combination. The hunter ranges things, and I would often find myself chasing around mobs that she aggros, just trying to get a hit in. Plus, on pulls, she would sit there and have to wait for my burg to go stealth and sneak in, try to start a big hit, etc. So, it was a bit annoying for both of us. We got used to it after a while, of course, and the conjunctions are nice on signature mobs. The main issue here is that if the hunter gets melee mobs on them, it starts interrupting their inductions (my wife absolutely HATES the craban because of this, heh) So, it's nice for the burg to keep aggro. Nice for the hunter anyway. Not so great for the burglar's positional damage. Hence, awkward duo.

    That said, I think captain/hunter is a more convenient and workable duo. It won't be frustrating since the captain has a few more things they can do at range than the burglar.


    Broogen/Hollman
    Windfola

  9. #9

    Re: Captain or Burglar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elrorhir View Post
    ...while a captain is the guy in the shadow that just make life easier for everyone. He has no real pressure other than assist his fellowship and keep the buff ready.
    Level a captain to 65, raid with it for a while...then come back and see if you still feel that statement is true.

    At the OP: either burglar or captain with a hunter will be annoying until mid levels. The hunter gets most of their staple skills early on, and those skills are about dps for the most part. Both burglars and captains are multi-taskers, and they get a few skills for each of their areas over the course of many levels. They don't feel like they can do any of their jobs well until mid levels.

    Once minstrels get war-speech, they can also put out a lot of dps.

    Whether with burglar or captain, either a hunter or minstrel will end up tanking sometimes. Having duoed with both hunter and minstrel on my captain, I'd recommend the burglar, otherwise you'll probably end up feeling like the other person's herald for about 40 levels.
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  10. #10
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    Thumbs down Re: Captain or Burglar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Replica View Post
    He has a hunter, and a mini. However I think he prefers the hunter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Holman View Post
    Considering that your friend prefers the hunter, let me share my experience here.

    I have a 65 Capt and a 63 Burg. I leveled up the burglar with my wife's hunter. It is a pretty awkward combination. The hunter ranges things, and I would often find myself chasing around mobs that she aggros, just trying to get a hit in. Plus, on pulls, she would sit there and have to wait for my burg to go stealth and sneak in, try to start a big hit, etc. So, it was a bit annoying for both of us. We got used to it after a while, of course, and the conjunctions are nice on signature mobs. The main issue here is that if the hunter gets melee mobs on them, it starts interrupting their inductions (my wife absolutely HATES the craban because of this, heh) So, it's nice for the burg to keep aggro. Nice for the hunter anyway. Not so great for the burglar's positional damage. Hence, awkward duo.

    That said, I think captain/hunter is a more convenient and workable duo. It won't be frustrating since the captain has a few more things they can do at range than the burglar.


    Broogen/Hollman
    Windfola
    Quote Originally Posted by Lupini View Post
    ....

    Whether with burglar or captain, either a hunter or minstrel will end up tanking sometimes. Having duoed with both hunter and minstrel on my captain, I'd recommend the burglar, otherwise you'll probably end up feeling like the other person's herald for about 40 levels.
    I'm with Lupini on this one.

    My Capt. is level 65 and my burg is 46 at the moment. As a Captain I duoed with a hunter and it was not a lot of fun. I'd get an occasional hit in. I could off-tank for the hunter but I couldn't self heal when doing it, so taking on elites was not feasible.

    On a burg, when duoing with a hunter the key is to recognize the realities of the situation. I would stealth and wait about 2 paces in front of the hunter. When the mob rushed the hunter I'd use Surprise Strike for a fast kill or Trip to start a conjunction. It worked great. Also, in mischief a burg can keep a mob more or less permanently mezed. That let me duo Mountain Raiders (Trollshaws giants quest) with a hunter.


    Now if that doesn't sound like fun to you and you really are going to be duoing with a hunter most of the time, I might recommend Lore Master, Rune Keeper, or Minstrel. Or better yet, convince him to roll a burg. Duoing with 2 burgs is whole heaping spoonfulls of fun.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/03202000000003071/01008/signature.png]Kalbarad[/charsig]

  11. #11

    Re: Captain or Burglar?

    I do not think we will be grouping that much, my friend and I. He wants me to level to 30, or whatever level he might be. This way we can skirmish together.

    I think I might have to go with Burglar. I like being able to solo when I want to, and all though HoH is appealing, stealth beats it.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/032020000002df585/01008/signature.png]Malasphant[/charsig]

  12. #12
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    Re: Captain or Burglar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Holman View Post

    That said, I think captain/hunter is a more convenient and workable duo. It won't be frustrating since the captain has a few more things they can do at range than the burglar.
    LOL - like what?

    Burg is lots of fun solo and at 65, not well geared I can do almost the dps of a champ. Almost. The crits are fun

    Skirmishes are more fun on the captain though. Mighty Captain AoE ftw.
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  13. #13

    Re: Captain or Burglar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurkerinthemist View Post
    LOL - like what?

    Burg is lots of fun solo and at 65, not well geared I can do almost the dps of a champ. Almost. The crits are fun

    Skirmishes are more fun on the captain though. Mighty Captain AoE ftw.
    Like heal for starters.

    Battle shout, markss, oathbreakers at higher (45) levels ..... MUCH more to do at range than a burg. And if you are soloing you aren't even coming CLOSE to a champs dps.
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  14. #14
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    Re: Captain or Burglar?

    I know this may be late and the OP may have already chosen the class. But anyhow my thoughts.


    I have a 65 captain and a 37 Burglar. This is coming from someone who has always played a buff/low DPS class in MMOs.

    From my experience, a good captain can keep a group from failing. Captains can fill almost any role, just not as good as the class that is meant for that role. (Healer - Mini/RK, Tank - Guard/Warden) Captains can heal, but unless you are geared very well, you can't beat a minstrel's or rune-keeper's heals. (Right now my legendary items are terrible which restricts me from healing above 1,000 with crits) Captains can tank, however most captains will not attempt this. Captains are good at keeping agro on a single target, but with multiple targets, they struggle. I have tanked a few instances on my captain before, such as Turtle, GS, and SG. Turtle and GS I did not have much trouble, SG was much more of a challenge for me. We still got the job done however.

    In groups, captains mainly give out buffs and do some off-healing, mark the target with Telling Mark, and pull mobs off of the healer. A captain makes other people's job easier through buffs, increased damage, and a little extra heals. Most groups really let you do whatever you want as long as you don't go and pull this group of mobs over here or start the boss before the group is ready, etc. What I mean is if you want you can sit in the back and just heal or you can be up front and try to slowly chip away at your enemy's health.


    Now for the Burglar.

    I have never been a fan of the stealth classes in MMOs, however a burglar does interest me. I always like to have a burglar in my group as a captain because if our healer dies and we really need emergency heals, a burglar can use a conjunction (Fellowship Maneuvers) and we can heal up all our morale. They can debuff targets. making them miss more, do less damage, take longer to attack us, and increase the chance of getting hit by crits. Burglars can make enemy inductions take longer and even interrupt them.

    Most of a burglar's DPS comes from crits, as said by others in this post. Captains are pretty much the bottom of the DPS ladder, so if DPS is your thing you might prefer a burglar to a captain. Burglars do more damage when attacking from stealth and when attack the enemy's back. This is good to know when soloing, you can sneak up behind your target in stealth, use surprise strike, and instantly chip away half or maybe even all of your target's health. You can bring them down before they even know what hit them.

    In groups, burglars tend to do CC (Crowd Control) and mez, stun, daze, etc. targets. If your group pulls one too many, let your group know you are going to riddle one of these mobs, if the group is smart, they will move the main group of mobs away from the riddled one and continue on. What I think frustrates burglars is when people break those mezes and stuns. Another things burglars do is debuff, as mentioned before. Your leader may ask you to keep _______ (trick) on this target.


    Overall I think a bad burglar is more noticeable than a bad captain.


    Hopefully this gives you an idea of what class you would like to play. Both classes are needed in every group and make the instance or raid much easier.
    Last edited by King_Numenorean; May 30 2010 at 10:13 AM.

  15. #15
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    Re: Captain or Burglar?

    A captain is a defensive burglar. A burglar is an offensive captain. Choose wisely.

  16. #16
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    Re: Captain or Burglar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyropax View Post
    A captain is a defensive burglar. A burglar is an offensive captain. Choose wisely.

    Interesting view
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  17. #17
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    Re: Captain or Burglar?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pyropax View Post
    A captain is a defensive burglar. A burglar is an offensive captain. Choose wisely.
    My burg is 53 now.

    Levling up the burg I definitely feel the lack of self healing and armor. However, with CC, stealth, debuffs, and stuns galore, if I'm taking damage on my burg I know I did something wrong.

    The lack of AoE damage is not a trouble for me since I leveled my captain to 50 without meaningful AoE. I use bleeds and Knives Out as my poor-mans AoE.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/03202000000003071/01008/signature.png]Kalbarad[/charsig]

  18. #18
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    Re: Captain or Burglar?

    Quote Originally Posted by SGWB View Post
    My burg is 53 now.

    Levling up the burg I definitely feel the lack of self healing and armor. However, with CC, stealth, debuffs, and stuns galore, if I'm taking damage on my burg I know I did something wrong.

    The lack of AoE damage is not a trouble for me since I leveled my captain to 50 without meaningful AoE. I use bleeds and Knives Out as my poor-mans AoE.

    I haven't touched my 37-8 something burgle. It was fun to level..

    Though i've too much toon :-\..
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  19. #19

    Re: Captain or Burglar?

    I don't play my burglar much, too many characters, so little time. However, it is the only class that I started one-shot killing things as a level 15. Set it up right, and wam!
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