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  1. #1

    Arrow Conjunction Junction

    Conjunction Information (from the beta forum, and special thanks to Tadloth for lots of detailed info!):

    Here's a link to the Official Article on Conjunctions.
    And on the Lorebook:



    Conjunctions are fellowship combat maneuvers that can deal significant damage or restore power or morale. The more powerful ones can combine these, affect multiple targets, or add heal-over-time buffs on you. Some even summon creatures to help you battle!

    Conjunctions are started randomly when you're fighting signature or elite mobs. Some classes (such as burglars) have skills or items that can start (also known as opening) a conjunction.

    Once a conjunction starts, the mob is stunned, and a conjunction wheel will appear on the screen of each fellowship member who is targeting that mob. (Those not targeting it will see a bulls-eye, clicking that will allow them to switch targets to the appropriate mob, and the wheel will open.) The wheel has four colored circles: RED (which does damage), YELLOW (which does damage over time), GREEN (which restores morale), and BLUE (which restores power).

    Each player has a few seconds to select one of the colors. Once you choose a color, it will appear in the Conjunction Contribution Panel (so everyone can see what has been chosen). This freezes your character (though other mobs can still attack you). If you move, your contribution is removed. After a few seconds (whether you choose a color or not), the conjunction resolves.

    As of Book 12, the fellowship (or raid) leader can select a "preferred" FM for the group. To do so, open your Character panel, select the Skills tab (at the top), then the Fellowship Skills (at the bottom). It will show a list of all the conjunctions you know (that is, the ones you have successfully completed on this character). If you are the fellowhship (or raid) leader, you'll also see a little check-box by each one. If you select that, it will immediately show it to all members of the fellowship/raid. Also, whenever an FM is opened, it will show it again. Also note that it's for the whole raid; you can't set a different one for each fellowship in the raid. Basically, it serves as a reminder as to which FM has been selected. It doesn't help you complete the FM per se, but the reminder can make it easier to get the "right" one completed.

    Some contributions require proximity to the mob, others can be used at range. There are slightly different icons on the conjunction wheel that indicate the range; if you look closely you'll see some arrows on the RED and YELLOW circles on the Hunter's wheel, for example. BLUE and GREEN can be used at range for all classes. Hunters and Rune-keepers can also contribute RED and YELLOW from range.

    Here's a video showing three different (length-three "straight") conjunctions: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2e5p-B68Tik

    Notice the effect on the mob's health, and on the players' morale and power.

    Although every conjunction with at least one color does something, there are special combinations which are extremely powerful. These tend to work like poker hands (pairs, flushes, straights), and are described in detail below. Straights describe a sequence that goes in order (clockwise or counter-clockwise) around the conjunction wheel. (Note: At one time, the wheel for some Hunters was different; it should match other classes now.)

    For the pairs like RRYY, the reverse order is equivalent. Only one order is listed here. That is not true for full-houses though; that is XXXYY is not the same as YYXXX.

    Here I transcribed all the ones I've completed, along with the in-game text. The ones with question marks I have not yet personally completed. The names come from other posts. For "straights" (i.e., working your way around the conjunction wheel), I believe that the direction (clockwise or counter-clockwise) does not matter. I know that's true for the length-four ones, but I have not confirmed it for length-five or six.

    ONE LONG

    R - Ent's Strength 105% of Main hand weapon + 328 damage. (effects vary by level; we're working on the formulas)
    Y - Spider's Guile Does 130 common damage every 4 seconds for 20 seconds.
    B - Stallion's Spirit Adds 268 - 274 to Power.
    G - Eagle's Cry Adds 434 - 439 to Morale.

    LENGTH TWO FLUSHES

    RR - Clash of Arms You and your fellow smash your target as if caught between a hammer and anvil.
    YY - Misdirection Working together with a fellow you both are able to cause deep wounds in your target.
    BB - Planned Attack Your superior coordination with your fellow energizes you both.
    GG - Rallying Cry You and your fellow let out a piercing rallying cry invigorating yourselves and all other fellowship members around you.

    LENGTH THREE FLUSHES

    RRR - Resounding Strikes Striking together you and your fellows tear your target asunder.
    YYY - Deception Working together with your fellows you all are able to cause deep wounds in your target. The initial contributor will cause a deep wound.
    BBB - Three Pronged Assault Your superior coordination with your fellows energizes you all.
    GGG - Mustering the Troops You and your fellows let out a piercing rallying cry invigorating yourselves and all other fellowship members around you.

    LENGTH THREE STRAIGHTS

    RBY - Sinister Plan Working with your fellows you are able to slash and wound your target while also energizing your fellowship members.
    RGY - Wrath Of the Righteous Working with your fellows you are able to crush and wound your target while also rallying your fellowship members.
    GRB - Strength of the Pure Working with your fellows you are able to crush your target while also rallying and energizing your fellowship members.
    GYB - Will of the Strong Working with your fellows you are able to wound your target while also rallying and energizing your fellowship members.

    LENGTH FOUR FLUSHES

    RRRR - Hail of Blows Striking together you and your fellows tear your target asunder.
    BBBB - Power In Numbers Your superior coordination with your fellows energizes you all.
    GGGG - Call To Arms You and your fellows let out a piercing rallying cry invigorating yourselves and all other fellowship members around you.
    YYYY - Chaos in the Ranks Working together with your fellows you all are able to cause deep wounds in your target. The initial contributor will cause a particularly nasty wound.

    PAIRS

    RRYY - Pounding Echos Your fellowship's pounding blows echo in the distance and your foes new wounds are great.
    RRBB - Planned Charge With a well planned charge, your fellowship crushes the enemy while being energized.
    RRGG - Ent's Heart With an Ent's resilience and strength, your fellowship crushes your target as they rally back.
    YYBB - Deadly Whispers Your fellowship's deadly whispers herald a deep wound in your foe and an energizing triumph.
    YYGG - Silent Glory Your fellowships silent wound and worthy glory rally everyone.
    BBGG - Noble Lineage Like ancient nobles, your fellowship is able to crush your target while also rallying everyone's morale.

    LENGTH FOUR STRAIGHTS

    RGYB or RBYG - Ent's Stand Like an Ent pooling all resources, your fellowship can crush and wound your target while also rallying and energizing all.
    BRGY or BYGR - Noble's Honour With a true noble's honour your fellowship is able to crush and wound your target while also rallying and energizing all.
    YBRG or YGRB - Silent Paths Working with your fellows you are able to crush and wound your target while also rallying and energizing your fellowship members.
    GYBR or GRBY - Eagle's Eyrie The power of great eagles in their eyries is matched by your fellowship as you crush and wound your target while rallying and energizing all.

    FULL HOUSE

    GGGBB - Pure of Heart The pure of heart fear no foe and your fellowship can rally and energize in the midst of any battle.
    BBBGG - Noble Blood Like those of true noble blood, your fellowship rallies and energizes from all past loss.
    YYYRR - Whispering Leaves Working with your fellows you are able to crush and wound your target.
    RRRYY - Ent's Rage With an Ent's strength and with your fellowship's blows, crush and wound your foe.

    LENGTH FIVE STRAIGHTS

    BRGYB or BYGRB - Wrath of the Oathbreakers Your fellowship strikes with such wounding wrath as to summon an Oathbreaker to assist you even as you rally and energize all.
    RGYBR or RBYGR - Entish Justice Justice of the Ents does not rest with a single foe, all enemies feel your fellowships crushing and wounding rage even as you rally and energize each ... (unreadable)
    GYBRG or GRBYG - Valour Unashamed Your fellowship crushes and wounds your target with unashamed valour, which removes fear, restores morale and enegizes all.
    YBRGY or YGRBY - Leaves of Lothlorien Swirling like the leaves of Lothlorien, your fellowship strikes from all sides, leaving wounds that slow while rallying and energizing all.

    LENGTH SIX UNIQUE

    RRRYYY - Tramp of Doom Your fellowship tramples your foes, inflicting deep wounds.
    RRRRRG - Roll the Drum The rolling drum of your fellowships blows on your foe cause pain to nearby foes and hope to flourish in your ranks, removing fear and wounds.
    RRRRRY - Break the Door You fellowships fury cripples your foe and crushes all nearby enemies.
    RRRRRB - Hew the Stone Your fellows hew into your foes like masons on stone, energizing each other and drawing forth an Oathbreaker shade to fight for you.
    BRYYRB - Breath of Freedom Your fellowship strikes with the conviction of freedom, defeating your foes and rallying your allies.
    GYRRYG - Hope of Men Your fellowship cripples your opponent and crushes all foes, filling your hearts with hope.

    GRRRRB - March of the Ents Like the nigh unstoppable march of the Ents, your fellowship rallies and energizes as they crush your foes.
    GYYYYB - Chill of Bone Your fellowship strikes deep, bone chilling wounds on your foe, rallying and energizing each other as they fight.

    LENGTH SIX STRAIGHTS

    BRGYBR or RBYGRB - Wings of the Windlord A truly flawless display of fellowship coordination, two oathbreakers are summoned as all enemies are crushed.
    RGYBRG or GRBYGR - Thunder of the Oakenshield A truly flawless display of fellowship coordination, all fear and wounds are removed al all enemies are crushed.
    YBRGYB or BYGRBY - Dawn on the Deep A truly flawless display of fellowship coordination, two oathbreakers are summoned as your target is heavily disabled.
    YGRBYG or GYBRGY- Whispers under the Mountain A truly flawless display of fellowship coordination, all fear and wounds are removed as your target is heavily disabled.

    These combinations don't appear to have their own name or effects:

    RRRGGG - ? ?
    RRRBBB - ? ?
    BBBGGG - ? ?
    BBBYYY - ? ?
    BBBRRR - ? ?
    GGGYYY - ? ?
    GGGRRR - ? ?
    GGGBBB - ? ?
    YYYBBB - ? ?
    YYYGGG - ? ?

    YYYRRR - ? ?
    YYYYYB - ? ?
    YYYYYR - ? ?
    YYYYYG - ? ?
    BBBBBG - ? ?
    BBBBBY - ? ?
    BBBBBR - ? ?
    GGGGGY - ? ?
    GGGGGR - ? ?
    GGGGGB - ? ?

    Mosby (Human Burglar), Leader of The Palantíri kinship (Landroval)
    Last edited by Beleg; Sep 21 2009 at 04:22 PM.

  2. #2

    Re: Conjunction Junction

    After playing various burglars characters since alpha, fellowshipped with my kinship or with pick-up groups, I can offer the following advice for doing conjunctions:

    If you have only 2 people, try for pairs (GG, or BB, or whatever).

    If you have 3, try for flushes (in most cases) or simple straights (GYB is my favorite). Only try for the straight when you are using the same straight in every situation, so people get used to it. In this case you must assign an order so players know when to press. With a decent fellowship, this is not too hard with just 3.

    With 4 or more, you may want to avoid straights if you're in a casual group. Although they work well, they hard enough that someone usually fails to contribute the correct color in time. Instead, assign your fellowship into 2 groups. Each group gets assigned a color. Usually the burglar will announce the colors before he opens: "Opening, BLUE - GREEN!" (this works best if everyone has voice-chat turned on). When the wheel pops up, everyone in group 1 immediately chooses BLUE (for example). Once group 1 finishes (but not before), everyone in group 2 chooses GREEN.

    If you have 4, try flushes or pairs (like GGBB); all combos work.

    If you have 5, try for full houses (like GGGBB or YYYRR). Remember though with these that you can either do damage (RED/YELLOW), or restoration (BLUE/GREEN), not both -- so don't mix the colors.

    If you have 6, try for the 5-1 combos (like RRRRRG). These work very well (with nice AoE damage), and are not too difficult. We usually have our minstrel (if we have one) go last. Everyone else just hits the assigned color when the wheel pops up, and the minstrel can decide the kicker color, based on what the group needs. Minstrels usually know exactly what the group needs most. The GREEN kicker gives you morale, the BLUE gives you a ghost.

    With a decent group, straights can actually work quite well. Even if you only get 3, it's still a nice effect. You don't need all 6 correct to make them work pretty well. If you have one or two people who always fail to contribute the right color for some reason (sometimes bugs in the game won't even let them see the pop-up), put them at the end of the order. That way you'll still get a good effect if you get the first four.

    For all but the simplest FMs, you'll need to assign an order. There are a lot of factors to consider: class, range, individual play-style, player reliability, and others. In my experience, you want melee classes (burgs, guards, champs, and wardens) to go before the classes with ranged attacks and/or inductions (minstrels, hunters, and RKs). Captains and lore-masters are hybrids that can fit in either group pretty well; I usually order the other classes first, and then fill in the gaps with the hybrids depending on the colors I need.

    That gives those with inductions a chance to finish their heal or bow-shot, and still contribute. Also, since melee classes are typically near the target mob, they can usually contribute any color, while the ranged classes can only contribute BLUE or GREEN, without first closing on the mob. (Though hunters and rune-keepers can contribute any color at range.) One exception to this guideline: if you're relying on the the tank to maintain aggro on a boss mob, you may want him to be near the end of the order. This allows him to continue fighting until the last possible moment.

    Here's an example. Let's say you have a group with the following classes, and you want to do a RBYGRB - Wings of the Windlord straight. I would probably assign the players in this order:
    1. Burglar - Burgs are usually first; they often have the quickest reaction time since they probably opened the FM.
    2. Lore-master - Easier to contribute BLUE or GREEN.
    3. Champion - Can usually go anywhere in the order, with any color.
    4. Guardian - As far back in the order as we can put him (so he can maintain aggro), but still before hunters and minstrels. Although any color is ok for Guardians, GREEN or BLUE are usually good choices, since he'll still get morale or power even if the FM gets mixed up.
    5. Hunter - Allow time for shot-induction to finish. Hunters can contribute RED from far away.
    6. Minstrel - Allow time for heal-induction to finish. Minstrels can contribute BLUE from range. If the Minstrel is too busy healing, you still get 5.

    With that order, and a decent group, you would almost always get at least 4 contributed in the right order. Getting 5 or 6 would be a nice bonus. If we're trying for a straight, and if I know the players well, I will usually put the most reliable contributors first (regardless of class), to give us the best chance of getting the longest straight. If we're trying a more difficult FM such as Hope of Men (GYRRYG - where all 6 are required to complete it), then I'll usually arrange people by what class can most easily contribute the necessary color.

    Book 12 added the ability to select a "preferred" FM, which is displayed whenever an FM is opened. The fellowship leader can set the preferred FM using the Skills Panel on his Character Panel. There's a Fellowship tab (at the bottom); simply select the FM you want to use. Note that you can only select FMs you have "learned" (that is, you must have completed it at least once before).

    Our kinship uses this, but we don't rely on it too much. There are too many different circumstances for a single FM to be the best choice in all cases. Early in the battle, you may want YYYYYY. Late in the battle, you may want BBB-GG for example. Normally, we allow the burglar to choose the first color, and then we follow suite. This allows us to have four "pre-selected" FMs - usually RRRRR-B/G (minstrel chooses the last color), YYYYYY, GGG-BB, or BBB-GG.

    One last important tip: under the Key Mapping Options, you can bind the four wheel options (up, down, left, and right) to keys -- I use the arrow keys. For me, it's a lot easier to hit the key, than to try and find my mouse cursor, and click on the right color. You can also bind a key to change your target to the right mob when the bulls-eye indicator pops-up.
    Last edited by Beleg; May 06 2009 at 05:22 PM.

  3. #3

    Re: Conjunction Junction

    nice .. i still have it from the CB too lol thanks for posting .. was going to post later .. um.. did someone post the songs.. i have that one too ..??

  4. #4

    Re: Conjunction Junction

    Thanks, Beleg! One old link re-added to my signature, two to go!

    Oh, the numbers on the one long ones are probably level dependent, if not more than just level dependent. Never really examined it.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/04208000000109e8d/01006/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  5. #5

    Re: Conjunction Junction

    I need those other two, also! I hope their authors saved them for us
    [CENTER] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/landroval/mosby/"][COLOR=cyan]Mosby[/COLOR][/URL], Founder of [URL="http://www.thepalantiri.net"][COLOR=gold]The Palantíri[/COLOR][/URL] kinship (Landroval) - [URL="http://lotro-charts.tumblr.com/"]LotRO Charts Tumblr[/URL] - [URL="https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Category:Translations"]Runes & Translations[/URL]

    [COLOR=Silver][I]As glides in seas the shark, Rides Mosby through green dark.[/I] -Melville[/COLOR]
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  6. #6
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    Re: Conjunction Junction

    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg View Post
    I need those other two, also! I hope their authors saved them for us
    I have the combat primer saved, but I'd rather the original poster would re-post it as it's not my creative work and I don't want the credit. Except that I don't know if the OP is still around...

  7. #7
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    Re: Conjunction Junction

    I'm glad someone saved this list. With a burglar as my main I'm going to have to memorize it.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/06205000000002846/01004/signature.png]Oleandra[/charsig]

  8. #8
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    Re: Conjunction Junction

    Awesome info, I never go to see a few of those...Thanks for the post!
    [color=darkorange]Leader of[url=http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=32580] [color=darkorange]The Lorien Alliance[/color][/url][/color]
    [color=orangered]An Emperor of [url=http://theira.100webspace.net/ira/news.php][color=orangered]The Imperial Republic of Argos, Multi-Game Guild[/color][/url][/color]
    [color=red]Beliehn, Elf Champion ~ Ahnatar, Elf Guardian ~ Killy, Elf Hunter[/color]

  9. #9
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    Re: Conjunction Junction

    It looks like terrific work, but for the life of me I don't have a clue what it is.

    Would someone mind explaining what the heck a conjunction is, and what this application is all about ?

  10. #10

    Re: Conjunction Junction

    A conjunction is a "Fellowship Manuver" you'll hear that phrase out of the Devs mouths before you'll hear the word Conjuction.


    A fellowship manuver is a specail attack that only fellowships can do..
    1 person in the fellowship wil start, then each player(in random or pre-emptive) chooses a skill colour.
    This in turn gives the fellowship at that time, a chace to win the battle.

    It's confusing isn't it?

  11. #11
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    Re: Conjunction Junction

    Most of the 6 slotted conjunctions are very difficult to pull off unless you play with a team of 5 others CONSISTENTLY. So if anyone is going to Brandywine and has good experience with this, and you have been to angmar PM me.
    Fellowship of the Fourth Age
    Jackron - Elf Minstrel
    Jackus - Orc Reaver

  12. #12
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    Re: Conjunction Junction

    Conjunction junction...
    What's your function?

    Great post! If anyone needs any more information click here.

    This thread deserves to be stickied? /call dev
    Last edited by rfodish; Mar 30 2007 at 10:44 AM.

  13. #13

    Re: Conjunction Junction

    Updated the OP to explain what conjunctions are, and to add a link to a video I made showing a few.

    Normally I would add a soundtrack, but I thought you might want to hear how I (as the burglar) tried to organize the fellowship (of 3 players) to select a particular conjunction.
    [CENTER] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/landroval/mosby/"][COLOR=cyan]Mosby[/COLOR][/URL], Founder of [URL="http://www.thepalantiri.net"][COLOR=gold]The Palantíri[/COLOR][/URL] kinship (Landroval) - [URL="http://lotro-charts.tumblr.com/"]LotRO Charts Tumblr[/URL] - [URL="https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Category:Translations"]Runes & Translations[/URL]

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  14. #14
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    Re: Conjunction Junction

    here are the proper six straights:
    BRGYBR = Wings of the Windlord
    RGYBRG = Thunder of the Oakenshield

  15. #15

    Re: Conjunction Junction

    Could we get this thread stickied as well? To make it easy to access.

  16. #16

    Re: Conjunction Junction

    Patience,

    Thanks for the sticky.

  17. #17
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    Re: Conjunction Junction

    Great post, and thanks for the sticky.

    Beleg, at what level were the stats for the four fellowship skills? For a lvl 15 hobbit burglar, my stats are:
    yellow: Main hand + 20; then 58 damage ever 4 seconds
    red: main hand + 141
    green: 186-191 (note: does not change when max morale or vitality changes by +-20, seems to depend on level only)
    blue: 119-124

    I also played a bit with the shorter green conjunctions:

    Healing combos:
    Length two: Heal over time of 123 morale every 5 seconds for 15 seconds (369 total). Not sure if this is over and above the immediate heal you normally get from your green, or instead of it. Will try to watch my health bar more closely next time. Switching same (or +-1) level hobbit burglar and a hobbit minstrel in the connjunction had no impact on the combo HoT (for me - not sure if they were getting the same stats, will check later).

    Length Three: Heal over time 105 morale every 5 seconds for 35 seconds (735 total, or almost double the length two flush).

    Length three straights with a green (brG and rGy): Heal over time 88 morale every 5 seconds for 35 secodns (616 total). Not sure about the other components, was doing it on normal mobs and they died too quickly for me to notice the direct or DoT damage.

    Anyone figured out yet what the combo bonus stats depend on?
    "Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life"
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  18. #18

    Re: Conjunction Junction

    Quote Originally Posted by Tadloth View Post
    Great post, and thanks for the sticky.

    Beleg, at what level were the stats for the four fellowship skills? For a lvl 15 hobbit burglar, my stats are:
    yellow: Main hand + 20; then 58 damage ever 4 seconds
    red: main hand + 141
    green: 186-191 (note: does not change when max morale or vitality changes by +-20, seems to depend on level only)
    blue: 119-124
    Good info, thanks. I believe my stats were from when I was level 36ish.
    [CENTER] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/landroval/mosby/"][COLOR=cyan]Mosby[/COLOR][/URL], Founder of [URL="http://www.thepalantiri.net"][COLOR=gold]The Palantíri[/COLOR][/URL] kinship (Landroval) - [URL="http://lotro-charts.tumblr.com/"]LotRO Charts Tumblr[/URL] - [URL="https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Category:Translations"]Runes & Translations[/URL]

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  19. #19
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    Re: Conjunction Junction

    Ok, a bit more from some time spent in angerwood tonight:

    1) In green flushes, the heal over time is over and above the immediate individual heal you will get from your own contribution (kinda obvious, but was not sure).

    2) The heal over time bonus seems to depend on the level of the persons hitting the green buttons. Not 100% sure, but it seems to me it is based on the highest level person hitting green. (With 6 people in group with only 2 participating, on a 2 green, 2 lvl 15 burgs gave 130 HoT, Lvl 15 and Lvl12 burg gave 130 HoT also, but lvl 12burg and lvl12 LM only gave ~110. Since earlier a change of burg to minstrel in the pair did not make a difference, i dont think class mix has anything to do with it).

    3) the heal over time bonus in the length 3 and four staights depends on the level of the person hitting green. BRG gives from 77 at level 12 to 105 at level 15.

    4) A few combos:
    GG gives 110-130 heal (levels 12-15) every 5 seconds for 15 seconds
    BRG gives around 70-100 heal (levels 12-15) every 5 seconds for 35 seconds
    BRGY gives ~100 (level 12) every 5 seconds, but for only 25 seconds. (Also gives 44 DoT every 3 seconds for 36 seconds = ~530 damage - this seems to replace,rather then add on the person's individual yellow contribution (tbc); and some direct damage and power restore I did not notice exactly)
    RRGG/GGRR gives ~110-120 (but definitely less then just pure GG) (level 12-15) every 5 seconds for ?? seconds (forgot to check duration)
    Roll of Drum (5R1G) gives 77 heal (lvl 12) every 5 seconds for 55 seconds ( and also about 1500-2000 direct and 250 AoE damage)

    3R3Y AoE effect seems to be rather short ranged - did not cover roots around a tree in the old forrest. However, 5R1G did catch a root that was only marginally closer. This would suggest either that 5R1G has longer range, or that the AoE range is very limited (<5m or so).

    And a couple of general comments:
    1) it seems you need to be attacking a mob to be able to participate in conjunction (red ring) rather then just have it targeted (orange ring).
    2) can we stress somewhere in the manual that green and blue are ranged (for all classes? if not, for which)? And that hunter can also do red and yellow ranged (how about LM? Red ranged I thought, but not sure)?

    Thanks are due to the brave souls who fought (and unfortunatelly died) with me, but the idiot that I am, I did not write down your names... pst me if you were helping angouleme tonight and I'll edit... Also, if I forgot something/messed up, please correct
    Last edited by Tadloth; Apr 06 2007 at 01:52 AM.
    "Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life"
    -- Terry Pratchett, Small Gods

  20. #20

    Re: Conjunction Junction

    Great testing, Tadloth! I know how hard it is to get that sort of information; it must have taken you hours! A few more like this, and we'll be able to figure out the formulas used. Are you getting the numbers from your Combat tab, or from the floating numbers?

    As for the range issue: there are different icons on the conjunction wheel for ranged vs melee contributions. I'm pretty sure all of the hunter one are ranged. For minstrel, G/B are ranged, R/Y are not. For burglar, I thought they were all melee only, but since I'm usually the one opening, I have not tested if G/B are ranged. I'll add a section in the OP so we can start confirm this.
    Last edited by Beleg; Apr 06 2007 at 10:58 AM.
    [CENTER] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/landroval/mosby/"][COLOR=cyan]Mosby[/COLOR][/URL], Founder of [URL="http://www.thepalantiri.net"][COLOR=gold]The Palantíri[/COLOR][/URL] kinship (Landroval) - [URL="http://lotro-charts.tumblr.com/"]LotRO Charts Tumblr[/URL] - [URL="https://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Category:Translations"]Runes & Translations[/URL]

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  21. #21
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    Re: Conjunction Junction

    ok, a few more things:
    1) the individual (one person) stats depend only on level: a lvl 15 human captain and a lvl 15 hobbit burglar have exactly the same stats.

    2) I've edited http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Conjunctions a bit, will post stuff there too since it seems to me a bit easier to edit/follow.

    3) Here are the yellow length six straights:
    Dawn on the deep: YBRGYB - Heal over time (5 sec tick,45 sec duration, 88dmg at level 15), DoT (every 3 for 45, 49dmg at level 15), slows down (maybe stuns, not sure) the target, summons Noble spirit. Description claims 2 Noble spirits, but only spotted one when we got it off.

    Whispers under the Mountain: YGRBYG -HoT (every 5 for 45, 93 dmg at lvl 15), DoT (every 3 for 45,49 dmg at level 15), slows down (or maybe stuns), summons one Noble spirit. Description claims removes fear and wounds, could not really see in Rath. Any suggestion for a place with lvl 15-18 undead elites to check this?

    4) Some DoT stats, all at level 15. All DoT conjunction bonuses have a 3 second tick and duration between 21 and 45 seconds:
    YY:two wounds, 46 and 41 for 21 and 30 seconds respectively
    YYY: two wounds, 48 and 44 for 21 and 36 seconds respectively
    YYYY: two wounds, 48 and 49 for 21 and 45 seconds respectively
    GGYY / BBYY: two wounds, 48 and 47 for 21 and 36 seconds respectively
    YGRB through YGRBYG: one wound, 49 for 45 seconds

    5) RRRRRX conjunctions:
    All of these are AoE conjunctions. It seems each red player at level 15 does 238 damage to target and to all mobs in range (i.e. conjunction does ~1200 damage to every mob in range).

    6) the following do not lead to any combo:
    YYYRRR
    YYYYYX
    GGGGGX
    BBBBBX

    Many many thanks to Illmengel, Jed, Masoj, Staark, and Vomet for the time they put into helping me get this info.
    Last edited by Tadloth; Apr 07 2007 at 04:52 AM. Reason: added info from tonight
    "Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life"
    -- Terry Pratchett, Small Gods

  22. #22

    Re: Conjunction Junction

    This is amazing! Thanks for posting this!

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    639

    Re: Conjunction Junction

    Just a quick update, the YBRGTB only summons one noble spirit at the moment. Tested again yesterday, only the first blue player gets an oathbreaker pet. Either the description is outdated, or the conjunction is bugged.

    Also, this time round we got 93 HoT from this conjunction too, so it seems the heal for both is the same and depends on level or class. Will try to check more if I find a group tonight.
    "Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life"
    -- Terry Pratchett, Small Gods

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    372

    Re: Conjunction Junction

    I am, unfortunately, one of those clueless players who is likely to mess this conjunction thing up for everyone else -- and not on purpose. I have a couple of questions, and I only hope that I can get some of this information hammered into my suddenly thick skull. I have no problems with almost every other aspect of the game, but this... just goes right over my head.

    How and why does a conjunction wheel pop on your screen? Is it random, or can it only be put there by certain players? I read in another thread that only Burglars and (I think) Champions can make these wheels pop up. Is that correct?

    How do you know where you are in the wheel sequence? I saw the video, and the line of icons above the wheel, but does that appear on everyone's screen? What if I click an icon out of sequence? Is that even possible?

    How can you pre-plan conjunctions when you don't know how a battle is going to go until you're in it? For battles you have to try again, I understand, but for first-time encounters, how do you know which of the dozens of combinations will work best at a specific point in the fight?

    So far, I've only seen one of these in game, with the announcement, "You can create a conjunction!" (Huh? A what? *mouse-over the colors*... No idea what the Eagle or the other colors mean... Oops, it's gone, wonder what that was about...), and I have no idea if I was supposed to click a color first, or if I was supposed to wait for the other player to do it. I believe the other in our fellowship was a Champion. I didn't ask, he didn't mention, and I admit now, I was too embarrassed to pursue the issue.

    I'm worried that the next time I see one of these, I'm going to freeze again, not click a thing, wondering what the very best combination move would be at that particular moment, and whether the rest of the fellowship would want the same thing I think is the right move, and which icon I should click to achieve it since I haven't memorized all the combinations, and when I should click it... I just really, seriously, don't understand this.

    I've seen a lot of comments along the lines of, "When in doubt, click red." Even that doesn't make sense to me. In my mind, "When in doubt, click green," because there's nothing wrong with a little extra healing. Further proof, though, that I don't understand conjunctions.

    The overall concept of a move that involves all the players in the fellowship at the same time, I kinda understand. In practice, I'm completely lost. I'm thinking, perhaps I should roll a Burglar. Might make me the worst Burglar in the game, but... at least I'll have tried to figure this out.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    639

    Re: Conjunction Junction

    Quote Originally Posted by Tessek_Barrowden View Post
    How and why does a conjunction wheel pop on your screen? Is it random, or can it only be put there by certain players? I read in another thread that only Burglars and (I think) Champions can make these wheels pop up. Is that correct?
    When fighting signature and above monsters (red portrait), a conjunction wheel may appear randomly. In addition, burglars get abilities at levels 12 and 27 to start a conjunction on any mob. High level guardians used to get a conjunction starter too, but it was a reactive skill and bugged in closed beta.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tessek_Barrowden View Post
    How do you know where you are in the wheel sequence? I saw the video, and the line of icons above the wheel, but does that appear on everyone's screen? What if I click an icon out of sequence? Is that even possible?
    The wheel (or the bullseye if you are on the wrong mob) appears on everyone's screen at the same time. In addition, up top you can see which colors are already in the conjunction, and the players who used them will freeze in the conjunction pose with their color icon above their heads.

    Therefore whenever you click a color, it will fill in the first empty circle in the row at the top of your screen.
    For example: your group is trying to do Whisper under the Mountain (Yellow straight) and you are told to do "red, third." This means that when the conjunciton starts, you need to get in melee range of the mob, and wait for the first two colors to light up on your screen (yellow and blue). Once you see those two circles light up, you need to hit your red button. (note: assigning arrow keys to the conjunction buttons in options->key mapping helps a lot).

    Now there are three ways thigns can go wrong:
    1) you mess up and hit your color too early (before the first two circles light up). Simply move (w,s,a,d) - this will cancel your contribution. Then wait and try to ge back in at the proper time.
    2) somebody messes up and hits their color before you (so the third circle gets filled up). There is not much you can do in such a situation, just hit your color anyway and hope they will clear out their erroneous entry.
    3) The first two colors are in, but in the wrong order (blue, then yellow). There are two ways a group can respond,and you should agree what to do up front about it (when agreening what conjunction to do and assigning order). You can either
    - wait until the people before you cancel and restart (but risk that the combo will time out)
    - try to complete another named combo - in this example you would hit green to get the blue straight instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tessek_Barrowden View Post
    How can you pre-plan conjunctions when you don't know how a battle is going to go until you're in it? For battles you have to try again, I understand, but for first-time encounters, how do you know which of the dozens of combinations will work best at a specific point in the fight?
    Well, that depends on the group you are in, the type of mobs you are fighting, etc... There are several ways to address this:
    1) just hit whatever you personally need at the time. Combos are nice,but not worth dying for.
    2) Use a straight conjunction. These are fairly universal, give damage, healing and power restore. However, they take a little more coordination.
    3) Agree up front on 2 or 3 conjunctions you will be using, and assign order for all of them. Then, the burglar in your group will call one of them based on the situation. For example, with a full group, you could do this:
    - when we are fighting many adds, everybody hits red, and the minstrel chooses the kicker based on whether we need more power (blue) or healing (green). This will give us a lot of AoE damage.
    - when fighting a boss, we will do the dawn yellow straight: joe has first yellow, pete second blue,... - this will slow, damage and DoT the boss and give us heals, power, and pets.
    - if we really need heals and power, we'll do the 3G2B full house - fighters get green, minstrel and LM blue.

    note that you need to have the order for all options assigned before you even start questing, the burg then only calls which option to use, but not who should hit what.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tessek_Barrowden View Post
    So far, I've only seen one of these in game, with the announcement, "You can create a conjunction!" (Huh? A what? *mouse-over the colors*... No idea what the Eagle or the other colors mean... Oops, it's gone, wonder what that was about...), and I have no idea if I was supposed to click a color first, or if I was supposed to wait for the other player to do it. I believe the other in our fellowship was a Champion. I didn't ask, he didn't mention, and I admit now, I was too embarrassed to pursue the issue.
    ok, you guys just got a random conjunction there. The tutorial message messes things up a bit,it shold not appear next time. Generally, if your group did not discuss conjunctin strategy, just hit watever you need at the moment the wheel comes up. But if you expect to do tougher quests with a group and stay together longer, agree what you gonna do should a conjunctioon open up.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tessek_Barrowden View Post
    I'm worried that the next time I see one of these, I'm going to freeze again, not click a thing, wondering what the very best combination move would be at that particular moment, and whether the rest of the fellowship would want the same thing I think is the right move, and which icon I should click to achieve it since I haven't memorized all the combinations, and when I should click it... I just really, seriously, don't understand this.
    Do not worry about it. If there is a burglar in your group and knows what she is doing, she'll tell you what she wants you to do before she starts one. If you did not agree up front what to do, its tough to get a combo going since the chances are, at least half the group have never seen a conjunction before. Just hit whatever you need at the moment, or, if there is a beginning of a combo there (a flush or a straight), just try to extend it (e.g. if you see red,green and yellow, hit blue. If you see two reds and a green, hit a green for 2 pairs. If you see 3 reds, hit a red for 4red, or a yellow for 3r2y). As a rule of the thumb what works are poker type combos: 2,3,4 of a kind, 2 pairs, full houses, and around-the-wheel straights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tessek_Barrowden View Post
    I've seen a lot of comments along the lines of, "When in doubt, click red." Even that doesn't make sense to me. In my mind, "When in doubt, click green," because there's nothing wrong with a little extra healing. Further proof, though, that I don't understand conjunctions.
    Well, that depends on the situation. Your green may break up a 4-of a kind red which will deal massive damage and most likely will kill the mob. And if no one else hits green, then only you will be healed, but no one else in the group. So result is, mob is alive, most people in your group may still be hurting and about to die, and you healed and can run away...

    In general, when fighting many small mobs, green flush is better then red flush cause you will need the heals more then the damage. When fighting a an elite boss, the red combo may be better because it will finish the boss, while if you heal up, you only make the fight longer but still die at the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tessek_Barrowden View Post
    The overall concept of a move that involves all the players in the fellowship at the same time, I kinda understand. In practice, I'm completely lost. I'm thinking, perhaps I should roll a Burglar. Might make me the worst Burglar in the game, but... at least I'll have tried to figure this out.
    Or you can find an experienced burglar to show you how it all works. If you are on Silverlode, give Angouleme a shout.
    Last edited by Tadloth; Apr 10 2007 at 06:30 PM.
    "Give a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life"
    -- Terry Pratchett, Small Gods

 

 
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