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Thread: Bow Decision

  1. #1
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    Bow Decision

    Can you tell me what you guys suggest? I only do PVE


    3rd age 65

    Focus Crit
    induction crit
    quick shot crit
    barbed arrow bleed
    agility


    2nd age 65

    induction crit
    Induction Power savings
    merciful shot cooldown
    quick shot SLOW
    barbed arrow bleed
    agility

    So I am basically giving up focus crit and quick shot crit on my 3rd age in exchange for higher DPS, merciful shot cooldown, induction power savings, and quick shot slow. Any opinions? I am totally torn. I could also careless if I do or dont have a 2nd age bow, I just want the one that overall will do more damage.

  2. #2
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    Re: Bow Decision

    I might not be speaking for everyone but if all you care about is more damage I think the 2nd age is going to get you there.

    Induction power savings is also a nice thing to have.
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  3. #3

    Re: Bow Decision

    The increased base damage on the 2nd Age will more than outpace Focus Crit Magnitude and QS Crit. You also get more points to spend. I also love MS Cool Down in a group, and QS Snare% when solo.
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  4. #4
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    Re: Bow Decision

    I read that quick shot crit is useless if you are already at a 15% crit chance... is this true?

  5. #5

    Re: Bow Decision

    It's a +Rating bonus, not +Percent. Ratings don't break the caps, so yeah it's not going to do much for you if you're already at the crit cap. It will still apply a partial bonus to you chance to devastate with QS, like all other +Rating bonuses when you're already at the cap, but that's all.
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  6. #6
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    Re: Bow Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by NameAlreadyTaken View Post
    The increased base damage on the 2nd Age will more than outpace Focus Crit Magnitude and QS Crit.
    Disagree.

    Parse both and see what happens.
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  7. #7
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    Re: Bow Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigtuna00 View Post
    Disagree.

    Parse both and see what happens.
    I would very much like to see that.
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  8. #8
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    Re: Bow Decision

    For PVE, I'd pick the 2nd Ager. That power down is very nice in the longer boss fights. And I think the 2nd age Bleed might cap out slightly higher than the 3rd age (Have to check that).

    For PvP, the 3 crit bonuses are very nice. Power is not usually an issue in fast/furious moors fights. So I'd probably swing to the 3rd age for those fights.

    Both are good.

    Edit add: 2nd age can also get faster merciful shot CD = faster corruption removal cycle. And as a previous poster noted: more points to spend. More points is good.
    Last edited by Viniel; May 20 2010 at 08:00 PM.
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  9. #9
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    Re: Bow Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigtuna00 View Post
    Disagree.

    Parse both and see what happens.

    You can disagree all you want, but a large portion of damage, especially in long boss fights, is actually attributed to auto-attacks, in which the crit multipliers have absolutely no effect. Not to mention the fact that you actually have to crit in order for the multiplier to take effect, whereas the higher DPS figure on the 2nd shot effects every shot. EDIT: not to mention that MS cooldown and -induction power have their own secondary effects on DPS. -focus bow power would have been the t!t$.
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  10. #10
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    Re: Bow Decision

    I would like to see what the comparison is regardless of what anyone thinks. I am putting my money on the second age for all the reasons listed above, but I would be nice to see what the gap is in general.
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  11. #11
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    Re: Bow Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by Earedhel View Post
    You can disagree all you want, but a large portion of damage, especially in long boss fights, is actually attributed to auto-attacks, in which the crit multipliers have absolutely no effect. Not to mention the fact that you actually have to crit in order for the multiplier to take effect, whereas the higher DPS figure on the 2nd shot effects every shot. EDIT: not to mention that MS cooldown and -induction power have their own secondary effects on DPS. -focus bow power would have been the t!t$.
    Actually, I can disagree because I actually effing parsed the two bows (my own of course). Thanks for the tangent theoretical explanation that really has nothing to do with my point.

    You can theorize all you want but for the OP you have both bows: parse them and make the decision yourself.
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  12. #12
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    Re: Bow Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigtuna00 View Post
    Actually, I can disagree because I actually effing parsed the two bows (my own of course). Thanks for the tangent theoretical explanation that really has nothing to do with my point.
    So..... let's see it?
    Last edited by brasswire12; May 21 2010 at 06:20 PM.

  13. #13
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    Re: Bow Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by brasswire12 View Post
    So..... let's see it?
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  14. #14
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    Re: Bow Decision

    Even if the parse shows higher DPS for the 3rd age in some circumstances, I would still say level up that 2nd age and use it in groups. Merciful Shot Cool-down is a HUGE benefit to the group in instances like BG, where clearing corruptions helps all.
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  15. #15

    Re: Bow Decision

    for moors only bow i'd pick the 2nd age
    but keep hunting for a new 2nd age.

    why i'd suggest it barbed bleed, qs, ms, and the slow are going to be improved and in the moors that can mean a kill vs a mob getting away.

    overall dps in a long fight i'd guess you'll parse about the same you lose on focus shots (ps) but gain on everything else... moors isn't about long fights though its very short with burst dmg, bleeds, and slows/stuns leading to kills.
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  16. #16
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    Re: Bow Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigtuna00 View Post
    Actually, I can disagree because I actually effing parsed the two bows (my own of course). Thanks for the tangent theoretical explanation that really has nothing to do with my point.

    You can theorize all you want but for the OP you have both bows: parse them and make the decision yourself.
    Well congratulations on effing parsing something...you could have mentioned that in your original post, which made absolutely no point at all, just a curt and unfounded statement. As for my post being tangental, it actually was pretty relevant given that...you know what, nevermind...the OP got his answer...parsing multiple skirmish runs or other solo content (or group content if thats your dish) with both bows will provide the OP with his/her answre
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  17. #17
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    Re: Bow Decision

    RL response:

    TEAL bow is TEAL. a second age, woot, you got one, you just didn't win lucky lotto #569823xv2. My second age has focus crit, MS CD, QS slow, -enemy block, and DS resistance. And two whatever I turned into AGI and VIT. It's OK. It's not what I wanted, but w/e. I stopped rolling on symbols (literally, I do SG, just don't /roll) and just keep churning 3A's for relics, developing hopefuls for actual raid play that have both crits, bleed, and both powers, and 1 slot for a stat. That bow (which I've tried to get 58 times thus far, yes I've tracked that!), even as a 3A, will probably out-parse the first 12+ 2A's that I'd win or ID, b/c power costs + both crits + bleed are just that awesome.

    My advice: keep the second age for that bit of accomplishment, slap a delving on it, level the bas****, pat yourself on the back, and give up on another 2A b/c the odds are against you. Go enjoy life, drink a beer, smoke a cigar, smooch a girl w/ big hooters (if that's your thing), and forget about 2A's. Turbine will release another expansion, or add 1As, or add ways to get 2As. When that happens, it will either be easier to get 2As (cost on AH, rewards in game, whatever - point is - easier to get means more IDs means better chance at what you want... OR 1A's are the new oooohs & ahs, so go getcha some Orange Crush. Grind a bunch of 3A's instead, they'll probably be just as good as the 2A you have, never as good as the 2A you MIGHT could get, but they'll never be as good as some tigols in your face.





    Math response:
    The math basterds (of which I still consider myself, even though I stopped posting parses) have stopped posting parses w/ SoM, b/c they (mostly) are of the opinion that this game is of such limited fun that bothering to SCIENTIFICALLY parse a provable point no longer has the 'anima' it once did. Anima is french, btw, for "Turbine, your LI system smells like swampy crotch."

    Even if they never change the system (unlikely, see TtC threads revealing discontent) they'll add more ways for 2As & 1As at some point. Also inevitable is a level increase, w/ unknown responses. All these things mean we'll have to work to get an item to parse to prove a point we're pretty sure is still true, but don't feel like doing b/c Turbine's lucky if I login to pay maintenance on my kin-house and kill **** for Mercy 12-2, no less actually grind a LI to the point of scientifically testing it.

    Things we know:
    - BA Bleed legacy knock your parse up (and your parses wife).
    - Crit legacies parse up.
    - Power cost legacies parse up.
    - MS CD legacy is great for corruption removal.
    - (- target) Range evade is great b/c re: of position it works
    - QS slow makes your snare snarier.

    Things w also know:
    - rating legacies a subject to cap and therefore suck if you have a friend w/ a captain, or are lucky enough to have a captain on your second account to buff yourself.
    - You can swap a LI w/ another for your bleed or MS. (which I do, btw.) That'll buy you from 'having to have' these things all the time, which means crits/powers are really where you put your package out on the proverbial barrel head.
    - (- target) block is great in PvMP b/c creeps are blocky bastages that are often in front of you.

    --

    All else being what it is, the math basterds are crotchety old men that talk about the glory days of parsing when you could easily ID and ding a bunch of **** to prove a point. It's too much time now. I'm not running 50 daily quests/skirms/whatevers on a LI that *might* have 1 legacy different, just to prove a point anymore. And get the hell offa my lawn, you pesky kids.



    --

    @ Tuna: I believe you had a bow that outparsed your other bow. We don't have both bows posted, but there's more to 2 bows than 2 legacies, so I'll buy your point w/o proof. I'm glad someone is still parsing.


    --

    @ Peanut Gallery: I love you guys, too, and am inclined to agree w/ you, but there's multiple other legacies that interfere w/ a parse, which make it hard to be so scientific these days. Hopefully w/ a "LI v3.0" we'll get an option to SWAP legacies, which will renew our ability to easily scientifically compare 1 legacy at a time on a parse, and return us to the Golden Age of Parsing where we can dust off Cstats and tinker w/ our own bows and see what makes a parsier parse.

    Until then, you're welcome on my deck and we can throw empties @ the new kids.
    Last edited by kerryak; May 24 2010 at 04:47 PM.
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  18. #18
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    Re: Bow Decision

    I'll drink to that.

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  19. #19
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    Re: Bow Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by SaintBass View Post
    I'll drink to that.

    champagne o brews!!!! /cheers
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  20. #20
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    Re: Bow Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by kerryak View Post
    developing hopefuls for actual raid play that have both crits, bleed, and both powers, and 1 slot for a stat. That bow (which I've tried to get 58 times thus far, yes I've tracked that!), even as a 3A, will probably out-parse the first 12+ 2A's that I'd win or ID, b/c power costs + both crits + bleed are just that awesome.
    What's with the hype on the crit legacies? Even in the best case you're looking at less than 2% dps increase with both of them. A third age with them won't beat a 2nd age without for dps if they're otherwise the same.

  21. #21
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    Re: Bow Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by VmirTehPwn View Post
    What's with the hype on the crit legacies? Even in the best case you're looking at less than 2% dps increase with both of them. A third age with them won't beat a 2nd age without for dps if they're otherwise the same.
    Totally.

    But I don't have a 2A w/ both or BA bleed or a single power cost. I got a promising ID, but @ reforges I got the delicious choices(tm) of induction or focus threat @ 10, took focus (and made it AGI), and then got to look @ induction threat @ 20 & 30 b/c Choices(tm) isn't about choice w/ the current LI system.

    I have a 2A w/ focus crit only, and I consider myself lucky to have gotten something so marginal. But my theory3A (which I still don't have) will outperform my current (and only) 2A b/c my 2A only has 1 of the 5. Sure, a 3A w/ only one crit and no BA and no power will get smoked by my 2A. No denying that. But, my 2A isn't a raid bow, but it's a great MS swap and solo/moors bow, so I'll keep it while shooting for a 4/5 or 5/5 3A, which will parse about as well (TBH, I'm more interested in both powers and BA on that 3A than the crits, although I'd like it to have induction crit if I use it for moors BA swaps.)

    Rather than grind more 2As for more 'insert olive fork into eye' fun, I'll just get it on a 3A while grinding LI slot #6 to 31 for iXP/relics, and spend the rest of my time eating cheerios while reading Dr. McNinja webcomics. (LI slot #4 is for < 60's for raid drop decons, LI slot #5 is for 65s that ID like **** going to level 11 and decon'ing, btw.)

    It's not math, it's b/c I have a second age and I'm done, b/c the system is un-fun, un-enjoyable, annoyingly grindy, and illusory. And smells like a dirty hobo.
    Last edited by kerryak; May 24 2010 at 07:46 PM.
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  22. #22
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    Re: Bow Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by kerryak View Post
    while shooting for a 4/5 or 5/5 3A
    Good luck with a 5/5 3A. You'd need two of the reforges to give you not only an A pool legacy, but the right one. I think your chances of getting a 5/5 SA reforging one a week might actually be better than getting a 5/5 TA even if you level a TA to 30 every day ;\

  23. #23
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    Re: Bow Decision

    Quote Originally Posted by VmirTehPwn View Post
    Good luck with a 5/5 3A. You'd need two of the reforges to give you not only an A pool legacy, but the right one. I think your chances of getting a 5/5 SA reforging one a week might actually be better than getting a 5/5 TA even if you level a TA to 30 every day ;\

    yep yep

    but I grind 1 to 31 every week anyway, might as well try.
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