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Thread: Defiler vs ?

  1. #51

    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by timmyloo22546 View Post
    If you have time to mess around with plague of flies (why would you use this skill?) vs a RK and stand there to throw gourds the RK is definately doing something incredibly wrong.

    lethargic does break defiler fear. When you put "(don't do damage so shouldn't break fear)" it really sounds like you are talking theoretically and never put your strat to the test or even have a defiler for that matter. You try n sound like you have lots of experience but you haven't even realized your debuffs will break your own fear after all those ranks you managed to achieve.
    Indeed you're correct. I was mistaken here because I was infact thinking about something else. I've been recently (like this morning) messing about on my LM and working out some chain CC rotations and testing to see what sort of skills break or don't break which sorts of CC etc and I just had that picture of applying a debuff without breaking CC in my mind whilst I was describing that case. Lethargic will break defiler fear, but apart from that, and the flies, the rest is accurate. Fear 1st, get some range, refresh HoTs, disease, gourd, melee kite, fear/heal as required.
    Wulfhram (Hunter), Boborrin (Champ), Garrth (Captain) assorted others

  2. #52
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    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by nolins12 View Post
    Burglars and guardians are the only classes that can beat a good reaver
    Not to derail but... a good shield-specced Warden will beat a reaver any time.
    Last edited by jeedai; May 19 2010 at 01:51 AM.

  3. #53
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    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by nolins12 View Post
    Burglars, wardens and guardians are the only classes that have the best chance to beat a good reaver, Champs Guardians Burgs Wardens all have a shot against a defiler

    Fixed .

  4. #54
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    Re: Defiler vs ?

    From my own experience, Champions have an okay shot at killing any class. The hardest being the reaver. In regards to fighting defilers, I have found that having traited CBR (so it costs only 10% moral instead of 20%) is extremely helpful. With it, when a defiler fears me, I lose ~600 moral in order to stop a 2.5k heal. Well worth it. From there, keeping hamstring on a defiler and clobber ready for their debuffs and fire skill in particular is critical. I have found though, the only way for me to beat a defiler of significant rank is to have CB on. A lack of avoidances otherwise is the killer every time.

    I can't say I win every time, for that would be a blatant lie. Pibob, whom has taken extreme interest in this thread I see, has only fallen to me once. I've fought him 1v1 more times then I'd like to mention. But Defilers aren't the hardest to 1v1 IMO... Reavers rank 5+, when played right obviously, always give me a run for my money.

    Spiders I personally find to be one of the easiest creep classes to 1v1. I'm not tooting some prideful horn here, just stating that as my personal experience. With CBR, CB, and 45sec sprint, I can shut all but the most prepared weavers down. There are exceptions of course. But if a fight is kept under control, I find that champs have very strong chances to down ranked weavers and defilers.

    Anyway... carry on.

  5. #55
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    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jeedai View Post
    Not to derail but... a good shield-specced Warden will beat a reaver any time.
    and lore-masters
    "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle, and quick to anger!"
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  6. #56
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    Re: Defiler vs ?

    A well played Champ.

    Spars are inconsequential.
    [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=#ffffff][COLOR=red][FONT=Tahoma][B][COLOR=darkorchid]Second Marshal[/COLOR] Luc Brandenbuck[/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=#a9a9a9][FONT=Tahoma] ~[B]Battlemaster[/B]~
    Stalker's Enemy*Reaver's Enemy*Blackarrow's Enemy*Warleader-Foe*Weaver's Enemy*Defiler-Foe
    [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#ffffff][COLOR=lime][FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=#ff0000][FONT=Tahoma][B]Champion[/B][FONT=Tahoma]:[SIZE=1]'The only thing our opponents can do that we care about is die.'-Graalx2[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]
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  7. #57
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    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Untg99 View Post
    I've watched wardens win 1v1's against spiders. You would need a set strategy, setup with what if's, and knowing what to do through those.
    I wonder how skilled the spiders were

    Quote Originally Posted by nolins12 View Post
    Burglars and guardians are the only classes that can beat a good reaver, Champs Guardians Burgs Wardens all have a shot against a defiler
    Hunters can beat reavers. Yes, it's possible via a huge amount of kiting and luck on resists. An LM can also CHEW through a reaver. Trait Bog-Lurker, get burning embers on the reaver, kite kite kite while the lurker DPS's. When cj'ed, lay into him with ents+lighting. Drop tar if possible. Wardens can beat reavers shield specced. Other classes can to, but that mainly relies on the crits of the freep and the non-crits of the reaver

  8. #58
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    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrotherGab View Post
    Hunters can beat reavers. Yes, it's possible via a huge amount of kiting and luck on resists. An LM can also CHEW through a reaver.
    The biggest factor is getting the jump on them before they use charge. Reavers blast through alot of morale on squishies before charge wears off.

  9. #59
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    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by KillGore81 View Post
    The biggest factor is getting the jump on them before they use charge. Reavers blast through alot of morale on squishies before charge wears off.
    I mean organised. Burning embers, then fire lore and sign of power command. Kite kite kite.

  10. #60

    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawk9 View Post
    In regards to fighting defilers, I have found that having traited CBR (so it costs only 10% moral instead of 20%) is extremely helpful. With it, when a defiler fears me, I lose ~600 moral in order to stop a 2.5k heal. Well worth it. From there, keeping hamstring on a defiler and clobber ready for their debuffs and fire skill in particular is critical. I have found though, the only way for me to beat a defiler of significant rank is to have CB on. A lack of avoidances otherwise is the killer every time.
    That is something I never stood in spars vs champs. Except when you first see the champ at a distance, why would a defiler even TRY to use a gourd or debuff? Auto attack + headbreaker will be superior damage/benefit over any gourd or debuff. You posted a very good way of having the best chance for a champ vs defiler, but defilers that are using gourds or inductions (that are not heals) against a champ is hindering itself. I've lost to 1 champ MoM who had the CBR traited and used man heal n dire need because he was capable of using CBR that many times after a fear pot. I haven't come across any worthy champs of even getting close anymore -- part of that is the increase in crit chance and increase in healing+damage since MoM.

    Quote Originally Posted by pibob314 View Post
    The closest a LM has come to beating me is by using his brand (no fear respites) and just spamming as much DPS as possible. The problem they have is that most of their inductions for big attacks are the same length as the induction for my big heal so it would have to be one of those stars alligning moments to stop it as easily and as often as you suggest.

    Kiting at the ~30m range with an Eagle pet is also a pretty effective strategy, but unfortunately, the LM's who have adopted this strat against me in the past were not the best geared. Perhaps a better geared LM could beat me if they went down this route, but as of yet, I can neither confirm nor deny...

    Power drain by an LM is not a good idea imo unless you begin it at max range because it is essentially a self imposed root. MoNF traited LM's don't drain all that much power anyway and a pot straight afterwards usually sorts any issues out.
    So while the LM was kiting you and dpsing you -- how did you manage to dps the LM to kill it? What was your strategy in killing the LM?

    Tinechor, please don't answer this.
    Last edited by timmyloo22546; May 19 2010 at 05:51 AM.

  11. #61
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    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daec View Post
    Crit protection reduces the chance to crit, but not the magnitude of the crit once it goes off. I do notice on my dog when i have the crit protection slotted (and a defiler one) a significant reduction in the crits i get.
    Thanks for the reminder. It's been so long since I slotted it that I'd forgotten it was a chance buff, not a crit-amount buff.

    But still... it's such a small percent of a change. So instead of getting a crit on you 10 out of 100 times, you might get it 7 out of 100 times, assuming the base chance of a freep landing a crit on you was 7%. Just doesn't seem like it *to me and the way I play* to slot it for a measly 3% boost. I understand that others might want it, however.
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  12. #62
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    Re: Defiler vs ?

    IMO, one of the biggest things a defiler has going for them is that in order to come up with a strategy you have to 1v1 them a bunch, try stuff out etc.

    The time it takes to chew through them means there is a good chance you will get zerged, one side or the other. It would take some commitment from both the freep and the defiler. I have better things to do with my time.

    Not to mention in order to fool with strats the freep would need to wait on his cooldowns. Not to mention it is pretty easy for most classes to just get away from the defiler and fight something more fun. I fight a reaver, win or lose, the fight is more interesting.

  13. #63

    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by timmyloo22546 View Post
    So while the LM was kiting you and dpsing you -- how did you manage to dps the LM to kill it? What was your strategy in killing the LM?

    Tinechor, please don't answer this.
    Just slow and steady with gourds. Takes a while but I can dps them from range faster than they can dps through my heals, which is the key. If I can get into melee range with an LM though it's pretty much game over given that they are an induction class and defiler melee > lm melee, regardless of heals.

    I should probably point out, though it has been mentioned in this thread, that my main is a Champ so I am quite capable of fighting and strafing effectively in melee, which is part of the reason I have such a high success rate vs Guards and Wardens compared to perhaps what the average defiler experiences. As such, getting into melee vs induction classes such as LM's or Hunters pretty much settles the fight outright. The problem that these classes face is that even if they succesfully kite me and keep me out of melee, I can still slowly burn them down with ranged gourds and reflects and stay alive with HoTs and big heals if necessary, which is part of the reason why defilers are so insanely overpowered in 1v1's.

    As others have mentioned though, if my opponent wants to get away from the 1v1, there's not much I can do to stop them. My dps is not bad, but it's certainly not good and cc is limited at best. The fights I participate in do not usually take nearly as long as people like to make out defiler fights go on for, however, there is usually enough time for any freep to realise that they aren't going to win and hence will eventually lose and as such, if they choose to bail, that's usually what happens. As a result, I tend to gimp myself in most 1v1's intentionally to ensure they remain "close". I'm always in control but I have to at least make it seem as though my opponent might actually win in order to make them stick around. It's a dangerous game though since a lucky crit or proc will usually finish me off, but it's what seems to be necessary these days for this solo defiler to get his share of infamy...
    Wulfhram (Hunter), Boborrin (Champ), Garrth (Captain) assorted others

  14. #64

    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by pibob314 View Post
    .........
    So you let the pet live this whole time and the LM still doesn't win? Any defiler that lets the LM pet live should get smoked every time. I don't care how good you play your defiler, if you win it was cuz the LM doesn't know how to 1vs1 a defiler. If you could fight Tinechor and you use your strat i'd put 20G on Tinechor, only cuz thats all I can afford

  15. #65

    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by timmyloo22546 View Post
    So you let the pet live this whole time and the LM still doesn't win? Any defiler that lets the LM pet live should get smoked every time. I don't care how good you play your defiler, if you win it was cuz the LM doesn't know how to 1vs1 a defiler. If you could fight Tinechor and you use your strat i'd put 20G on Tinechor, only cuz thats all I can afford
    It depends on the pet really. They are mostly inconsequential to be honest apart from the Eagle coupled with a kiting strat. They don't really do all that much dps, well nothing to worry about anyway if I'm loading the HoT's on. The only thing they provide which is a nuisance are flank-heals and induction knockbacks/interrupts (in the case of the Eagle pet). If it's clear that the LM will competently kite me, hence leaving me reliant on induction based dps, this renders my fear useless vs. the LM. Therefore I can pretty much spam it on the pet (15s fear + 5s to come back (unless bog-lurker) so 20s of incapacity for the pet every 30s because CC on the pet does not suffer from DR).

    Would you care to elaborate on how proper use of an LM pet should mean that the defiler gets "smoked every time"? It's one thing to just say that without justifying it, but you'll need to be a bit more specific to make it sound a bit more credible. I don't see it personally and it's not for lacking of fighting good LM's. There are some very good and highly experienced LM's on Meneldor. I'm sure Tinechor is good too though. I'm not having a go, just can't see what you're describing to be honest...
    Wulfhram (Hunter), Boborrin (Champ), Garrth (Captain) assorted others

  16. #66

    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by pibob314 View Post
    Would you care to elaborate on how proper use of an LM pet should mean that the defiler gets "smoked every time"? It's one thing to just say that without justifying it, but you'll need to be a bit more specific to make it sound a bit more credible. I don't see it personally and it's not for lacking of fighting good LM's. There are some very good and highly experienced LM's on Meneldor. I'm sure Tinechor is good too though. I'm not having a go, just can't see what you're describing to be honest...
    At the start of the fight he'd tar + burning embers, gain distance and power drain. Once I'm out of power I can choose to use a power pot and then heal or dps. You can't do both if you are out of power because the regen isn't fast enough for it. If I'd DPS, i'd simply not have enough power to do any HoT which means he'd burn me down no matter what. The pet delays inductions long enough for a mez/stun to always interrupt it. He'd save all his damage stun skills + mez specifically for interrupts. And because power pot will be on cooldown he can drain again if need be. But with the pet alive he could dps thru the HoTs I do get up after initial ones wear off.

    Quote Originally Posted by pibob314 View Post
    Power drain by an LM is not a good idea imo unless you begin it at max range because it is essentially a self imposed root. MoNF traited LM's don't drain all that much power anyway and a pot straight afterwards usually sorts any issues out.
    Power drain is amazing vs a defiler. You telling them not to power drain is giving them bad strat info, only to help you win imo.

    The thing I don't understand is you seem to throw enough gourds (costing power) while keeping 3 HoTs up (costing power), while you should have little to no power to use. It just doesn't quite add up. I say 3 HoTs because the LM + pet can out dps 2 HoTs. If the LM drains me completely out of power, 1 icpr regen tick does not return enough power to do the smallest power cost heal (big heal), which is less than a gourd power wise.
    Last edited by timmyloo22546; May 20 2010 at 08:01 PM.

  17. #67
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    Re: Defiler vs ?

    The thing is both lore-masters and defilers have incredible survivability. The only difference is that a lore-master's is dependent on his pet. So there's no way a defiler is going to be able to kill a lore-master while his eagle is still up IMO. Defiler's just can't put out that much damage. But defilers can keep themselves alive like no other. Once the eagle dies, the lore-master has no sustainable self heals.
    "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle, and quick to anger!"
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  18. #68

    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by timmyloo22546 View Post
    Power drain is amazing vs a defiler. You telling them not to power drain is giving them bad strat info, only to help you win imo.

    The thing I don't understand is you seem to throw enough gourds (costing power) while keeping 3 HoTs up (costing power), while you should have little to no power to use. It just doesn't quite add up. I say 3 HoTs because the LM + pet can out dps 2 HoTs. If the LM drains me completely out of power, 1 icpr regen tick does not return enough power to do the smallest power cost heal (big heal), which is less than a gourd power wise.
    I'm afraid not. Frankly I don't care what people use in 1v1's against me. My theory is if it's there to be used, then use it. However, whenever an LM has used power drain against me, it always ends up as an easy victory for me. The main reason for this is that 95% of LM's in the moors are traited MoNF and so the potency of their power drain is not as high as perhaps you are assuming. Secondly, the skill is channeled, meaning that regardless of tar or burning embers slow, I can be within melee range of the LM within a number of seconds. From there, I can fear to interrupt the power drain and load on DoTs. Once the fear breaks, the LM will find it much harder to maintain distance from me due to DR on CC by this point. And then frankly an induction class being harried in melee by someone moreorless immune to CC is always going to be a foregone conclusion.

    As far as defiler power consumption is concerned I think you're probably basing your opinion on this on some experience with some very bad defilers. Unless you're being zerged, there is no reason for a defiler to spam heals. Defilers need to learn to trust the HoT's they have on and only refresh them when it is absolutely necessary. Managing power is what makes a difference between an average 1v1 defiler, and a good 1v1 defiler. Simply by being sensible with the skills I use and when I use them, I have been able to beat Guards who have popped all of their cooldowns/resets whilst only popping ONE power pot. LM's and their pets are reliant on burst DPS. After they get through their big skills such as Ents or Lightning, 2 HoTs is plenty to keep oneself up, and given that most LM's like to use those skills early, in my experience it is rarely ever necessary to even refresh all 3 of them. After starting with 3 HoTs on (could start with 4 if I was really concerned about big crits on Ents/Lightning), I'll only keep two on and big heal if it gets close.

    In terms of my DPS, each one of my gourds can do ~1.2k damage with the DoT if it hits. Most LM's run at the ~5k morale range meaning that disregarding flank heals/WotC/Man Heal, it only really takes 4 or 5 attacks for me to burn an LM's morale. Again, this means being smart and not refreshing DoTs until they have run their course to maximise power efficiency. Even if you put the total morale that I need to burn as say 12k, that's still really only 10 attacks or ~1000 power. Not that much in a long fight when icpr and DR kicks in.

    Draining power is a good idea, in theory, but in practise it disadvantages the LM more than it does me because of the self imposed root. Spider or Warg power drains, which are "uncurable" and far more potent, completely neuter defilers and so as I said, the idea is sound. If the defiler you are fighting is good with power, then there is pretty much no strategy you can use to beat them, as a freep class. If there is, I've yet to experience it. Admittedly, when a defiler runs out of power, they are a sitting duck, but this basically does not happen to me (I'm very frugal and hate spending coin/stones on pots) unless I am fighting a shield traited warden, and even then, it's no big deal because they don't hit very hard.
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  19. #69

    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by pibob314 View Post
    Once the fear breaks, the LM will find it much harder to maintain distance from me due to DR on CC by this point. And then frankly an induction class being harried in melee by someone moreorless immune to CC is always going to be a foregone conclusion.
    I stopped reading after that. A LM finds it hard to gain distance from a defiler? Do they play with their eyes shut? Anyways im done here.

  20. #70

    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bedelian View Post
    So from what I've seen so far it seems like Defilers are pretty much top of the food chain for spars and 1v1's because of their high mitigations and morale on top of their ability to self heal.

    Is there any class that a high ranked defiler has a disadvantage against?
    A warden should win against a defiler once the defiler runs out of power pots.
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  21. #71

    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by timmyloo22546 View Post
    I stopped reading after that. A LM finds it hard to gain distance from a defiler? Do they play with their eyes shut? Anyways im done here.
    Obviously you don't play an LM and have a fantasy idea about what LM's can do nowadays. Most LM's tend to spam CC/DPS at the start of a fight, so I have to heal and use power, LM thinks "good time to draw power", I run in, fear, hit power pot, LM thinks "time to gain distance", what's this, immune to CC? trying to kite enough to get induction skills off? The only thing that can help the LM is tar, but even then, this is how it would work: LM runs across tar, I throw gourd, LM stops to turn around and use skill, I close distance, load on another DoT, LM runs across tar, I throw gourd.... This is the perfect fight for me, it's nice and slow and ensures maximum power efficiency w.r.t. refreshing DoTs.

    The only other option, which you weren't very specific about but I suppose it's possible is what you meant, would be if the LM decides to drain power from the beginning of the fight, before applying CC and initiating DR on me. In this case, I basically don't have to heal, so don't have to waste power on that, so I'm not sure I'd even interrupt the LM if they decide to do that (no-one has before), since untraited their power drain is not very potent and I can just load on debuffs/DoTs from range, or close distance to mess with their inductions after the drain.

    And you think you're done here? Lol. You never got started here my friend. You never offered a single credible example to support any of your claims or assertions. No skill sequence, tactical sequence, nothing. Just rather general and unspecific "ideas". It just leads me to think you know nothing about the classes you are talking about apart from some theoretical idea you have in your mind about what they can do.
    Wulfhram (Hunter), Boborrin (Champ), Garrth (Captain) assorted others

  22. #72

    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by polishexpress View Post
    A warden should win against a defiler once the defiler runs out of power pots.
    What rank defiler and how is the Warden traited? Shield traited, maybe. Depends how efficient the defiler is with power use w.r.t. pot cooldown (no 1v1 defiler should EVER run out of power pots, only perhaps get caught out by cooldowns if they do not use power efficiently).

    In theory, it is possible for a shield traited warden vs. a decent defiler fight to continue indefinitely without conclusion. It's equally possible for one of the players to simply be better than the other, or, one player to get lazy or tired, and an outcome reached as a result. But it can go either way depending on who wants it more and has the most patience.

    Spear traited Wardens are usually fairly straightforward to take care of, bit like a Burg tbh, more annoying than challenging....
    Wulfhram (Hunter), Boborrin (Champ), Garrth (Captain) assorted others

  23. #73

    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by pibob314 View Post
    Obviously you don't play an LM and have a fantasy idea about what LM's can do nowadays. Most LM's tend to spam CC/DPS at the start of a fight
    You are generalizing: MOST. I'm talking top notch LMs, sorry if that isn't in the same category of people you play with/against.

    I actually sparred a LM about 15+ times during SoM. He tried different strats with different traits and different pets. I even told him everything I did and how to "counter it" or when a better time to use certain skills were. Any time I tried throwing gourds or catching up to his kiting he would dps me quite a bit. So then I had to kill the pet because my HoTs weren't keeping up. Granite I won every time, but I would of never won with your method against this LM. The moment i tried that he started droppin my morale faster than I could drop his. (rank 10 defiler btw..so I likely have better icpr and/or tact crit than you do). He isn't like most LMs vs defilers, he is better than the rest, at least what you play against.

    Quote Originally Posted by pibob314 View Post
    And you think you're done here? Lol. You never got started here my friend. You never offered a single credible example to support any of your claims or assertions. No skill sequence, tactical sequence, nothing. Just rather general and unspecific "ideas". It just leads me to think you know nothing about the classes you are talking about apart from some theoretical idea you have in your mind about what they can do.
    I didn't know I had to give specific examples. But if you look above I let ya in on some first hand experience I had and how this LM came to be as good as he is vs defilers. I'd say that is much better than going the theoretical example debate. What you consider a "good" LM, i'd prolly consider mediocre at best.

    Quote Originally Posted by pibob314 View Post
    Therefore I can pretty much spam it on the pet (15s fear + 5s to come back (unless bog-lurker) so 20s of incapacity for the pet every 30s because CC on the pet does not suffer from DR)
    You still haven't learned the basics of defiler skills? Defiler fear lasts 10s. ROFL at not knowing that.
    Last edited by timmyloo22546; May 23 2010 at 04:10 PM.

  24. #74

    Re: Defiler vs ?

    I thought you were done? Oh well...

    See now you're delving deeper and deeper into the hypothetical. If an LM was coming out to 1v1 a defiler and nothing else, then sure, they could probably come up with an effective strategy by adjusting traits/gear/skill rotation/tactics. Certainly, if it was me, I would definitely NOT be traited full MoNF. I'm not going to broadcast what I would do to have the best chance of beating a defiler, that's for other people to figure out for themselves. There are in fact many other classes who could in theory put up a very good challenge to defilers if they re-thought the way they are going to approach the fights, but again, that's not my business or in my advantage to drop hints about it.

    The issue is, 99% of LM's who come out to the moors are traited MoNF. In those fights, the things I have been saying are perfectly valid and work more-or-less the way I have been describing, regardless of the LM's ability. What YOU have been talking about is something completely different. YOU have been talking about an LM breaking from their normal, "standard" build in order to increase the potency of certain skills or effects vs a defiler. This is fine, but you have never once, even upto now, specified anything about said alterations. You haven't said, for example, which traits the LM needs to do certain things. Is that trait "standard", or is it something slotted specifically for the task. What task? What is it hoping to achieve? Anything?

    As you yourself have freely admitted, to every one of these alterations an LM might undertake, the defiler has an adequate counter (seeing as you are so succesful). So really, you're not arguing that defilers can or can't beat LM's, you're arguing semantics (a most pointless pastime, even if I do indulge in it myself from time to time). You take issue with my choice of tactic vs. the term "most LM's", because, and I quote, "they are mediocre at best" (never mind that some of the best and most experienced PvP LM's in the game are on Meneldor, and yes, I've PvP'd on quite a few servers, including yours...). What I mean when I say the term "most LM's" is the way that most LM's are set up in the moors. It's not an issue of player quality, which you seem to want to make it. Anyone can change their traits etc. to become more of a challenge, that's not a sign of skill as you seem to be implying, it's a sign of common sense. But ultimately, is it worth it? Is changing traits to eventually lose to a well played defiler worth it? Most LM's I have come across do not seem to think so, if you know one who thinks it is, then that's great, it doesn't make them any good though....

    The bottom line is that everything I have said is perfectly valid in the context I have written in. You are asserting it is wrong in some other context which you don't care to share with anyone else, which could well be true, but could equally be false, I just can't tell...

    This back and forth has probably expired its usefulness. If you want to carry on then I suggest you PM me with your thoughts.

    P.S. Is your defiler Oskir? If so, why are you traited the way you are currently? Is that your 1v1 build? If so, no wonder you think so poorly of defiler performance....
    Wulfhram (Hunter), Boborrin (Champ), Garrth (Captain) assorted others

  25. #75

    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by pibob314 View Post
    See now you're delving deeper and deeper into the hypothetical.
    So by saying results of actual situations that have happened is delving deeper into hypothetical? I must not know what hypothetical means then...

    Quote Originally Posted by pibob314 View Post
    You haven't said, for example, which traits the LM needs to do certain things. Is that trait "standard", or is it something slotted specifically for the task. What task? What is it hoping to achieve? Anything?
    That depends on the person's playstyle. There are certain people who like to 1vs1 specifically so will trait to whatever means gets them the best results. Btw: the solid strat to beating a supreme LM is to kill the pet first every time. Worked on all the builds, not just some.

    Quote Originally Posted by pibob314 View Post
    The bottom line is that everything I have said is perfectly valid in the context I have written in. You are asserting it is wrong in some other context which you don't care to share with anyone else, which could well be true, but could equally be false, I just can't tell...
    You are saying the false information about skills you posted is perfectly valid in the context you written? I don't see how false information = perfectly valid.

    Quote Originally Posted by pibob314 View Post
    Is your defiler Oskir? If so, why are you traited the way you are currently? Is that your 1v1 build? If so, no wonder you think so poorly of defiler performance....
    Umm yes. What is bad about my defiler build? I have high morale; therefore will take longer to burst dps down (allowing healers to react to get me healed up). Good crit protection preventing the spike crits which cause burst dps. Good healing output (HoTs heal for more-->less healing needed). The only thing the build lacks is a high power pool: but being a good defiler can manage power pretty well, that shouldn't be an issue according to you. So where would the poor performance from defiler come into play based on how I trait? I'd love to hear more of your false information responses from fantasy land. I enjoy a good laugh.

 

 
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