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Thread: Defiler vs ?

  1. #26
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    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by pibob314 View Post
    Plenty of people fight me actually, mostly Wardens and Guards, and fights don't take as long as you think. You've never manned up enough to fight me so how do you know anything about it anyway? Have you ever even seen me fighting anyone 1v1? The scenario you are talking about is true pre-rank 6. I've fought plenty of sheild-traited wardens pre-rank 6 and just as you say, the fights take forever and become an endurance battle. For some people that is fun though. We're not all out there to net as much renown/infamy as possible. I always took you for someone who enjoyed a good fight rather than someone only out there looking to gain renown, maybe I was wrong.

    Bottom line is don't comment on something you have no experience about whatsoever because you're too chicken to fight me. Last Thunderdome the fights I had with Wardens were over so quick that I didn't even use a single power pot. Even against Turwe when he uses emergencies I might use ONE power pot. You have no idea about how defiler fights are (not your fault though, most defilers on Meneldor are too chicken to fight anyway or don't know how) so quit talking big unless you're actually willing to fight.
    I think most people know how defilers fight. They just fear, kite, hot, repeat while letting their reflect slowly kill their target.

    For everyone else! The best way to beat a defiler is to bring loaded dice for crits, since that is what lotro pvp is based on.
    [B][SIZE=2][COLOR=#0000ff]Thunderlipz TheUltimateMale - Rank 10 Champ[/COLOR]
    [COLOR=#ff0000]Newbsauce GoForBroke - Rank 8 Reaver[/COLOR]
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  2. #27

    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by scogmyster View Post
    I think most people know how defilers fight. They just fear, kite, hot, repeat while letting their reflect slowly kill their target.

    For everyone else! The best way to beat a defiler is to bring loaded dice for crits, since that is what lotro pvp is based on.
    I'm sorry that you don't know any decent defilers then.
    Wulfhram (Hunter), Boborrin (Champ), Garrth (Captain) assorted others

  3. #28

    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Murtanion View Post
    Sigh, blind assumptions by those who don't look around. I have watched you fight turwe, I have fought other defilers on this server, as well as other servers. I took my Guard out on Silverlode and fought quite a few 1v1s, some with defilers. Saying I don't know how Defiler fights go is like me saying you don't know how to play a champ even though I have blatantly seen you sitting outside DN with KoD.

    As for thunderdome, every single warden there but myself was traited spear for DPS. I even switched to spear traiting once we moved outside HH, which funny enough, you weren't even there. Don't pull that stuff with me, its ignorant. I have no problem with 1v1'ing you, just leave the attitude, ignorance, and backup at home.
    A few minutes ago you were flat out refusing to 1v1 me because it's not "worth your time", and now you have no problem with it. Seems to me as though it's not me with the attitude problem. I think you're just trying to troll me to be honest, good luck with that...

    Your logic is also showing your ignorance. So what if you've seen my Champ around (I've done DN with KoD? news to me...), it doesn't mean anything about whether I know how to play. I could be a terrible Champ based on your evidence. If you're interested though, maybe you should ask your kin-leader, just saying...

    As far as Thunderdome is concerned, I was there but I was late because I was killing the Mistress before. You weren't there in HH when I got there (not saying you weren't before) so again, please don't comment on things you know nothing about. I know for sure that if you WERE there, I would have come straight for you to challenge you, but you weren't. A few Wardens challenged me, I obliged and melted them quickly, and I challenged Turwe a couple of times, one win each.

    Bottom line is that until you fight me, you just don't know. I can fully appreciate that you've fought some bad 1v1 defilers in the past, but that's not me and you seem to be lumping me into the same boat as them. Shield traited, spear traited, it's up to you. Shield will take a while, spear won't, the outcome will be the same either way.

    Oh and that comment about the backup was cute considering everytime I see you, you are hugging a zerg or ganking. I know you 1v1 as well, but everytime you see me you won't engage unless you have help. Just saying...
    Wulfhram (Hunter), Boborrin (Champ), Garrth (Captain) assorted others

  4. #29
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    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by pibob314 View Post
    A few minutes ago you were flat out refusing to 1v1 me because it's not "worth your time", and now you have no problem with it. Seems to me as though it's not me with the attitude problem. I think you're just trying to troll me to be honest, good luck with that...

    Your logic is also showing your ignorance. So what if you've seen my Champ around (I've done DN with KoD? news to me...), it doesn't mean anything about whether I know how to play. I could be a terrible Champ based on your evidence. If you're interested though, maybe you should ask your kin-leader, just saying...

    As far as Thunderdome is concerned, I was there but I was late because I was killing the Mistress before. You weren't there in HH when I got there (not saying you weren't before) so again, please don't comment on things you know nothing about. I know for sure that if you WERE there, I would have come straight for you to challenge you, but you weren't. A few Wardens challenged me, I obliged and melted them quickly, and I challenged Turwe a couple of times, one win each.

    Bottom line is that until you fight me, you just don't know. I can fully appreciate that you've fought some bad 1v1 defilers in the past, but that's not me and you seem to be lumping me into the same boat as them. Shield traited, spear traited, it's up to you. Shield will take a while, spear won't, the outcome will be the same either way.

    Oh and that comment about the backup was cute considering everytime I see you, you are hugging a zerg or ganking. I know you 1v1 as well, but everytime you see me you won't engage unless you have help. Just saying...
    Cute story.

    I bow down to the best Defiler in existence.

    Seriously.

    Get off your High Horse. No one cares to read your rantings and ridiculous circuitous posts that have little to nothing to with with comprehending and responding to what a previous poster had written. Until I see you out there without a spider or reaver right behind you I won't believe your word is true. I don't hug zergs because I don't get renown in zergs, if I had huge tactical damage or 40m range I would, until then, cry me a river.

  5. #30
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    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by WKking View Post
    I rarely ever lose to shield traited wardens. It is easy to power drain them/kite them. I don't use Venemous haze on them either. And with hatchlings, you just watch the warden hitting em then after a few sec just dismiss so they have an aoe heal gambit useable on 1 target lol. Same goes for champs and capt who try to get a defeat response
    I very rarely lose a spar to a weaver, It might be because most of them travel in groups, or the ones I have sparred are not very good..but I do not find them that hard to beat as a champ
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/042070000000cbc65/01001/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  6. #31

    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Murtanion View Post
    Cute story.

    I bow down to the best Defiler in existence.

    Seriously.

    Get off your High Horse. No one cares to read your rantings and ridiculous circuitous posts that have little to nothing to with with comprehending and responding to what a previous poster had written. Until I see you out there without a spider or reaver right behind you I won't believe your word is true. I don't hug zergs because I don't get renown in zergs, if I had huge tactical damage or 40m range I would, until then, cry me a river.
    You care, obviously. That's enough for me. And I respond exactly and directly to the posts I quote. Not my problem if people decide to edit afterwards. If you can't be bothered to read my posts and then assume that I've said or meant something that I haven't, then again, that's not my problem. If you can be bothered to read my posts and you still assume that I have said or meant something that I haven't, again, not my problem.

    Whilst it is amusing for me to see you get so emotional, I do believe that this conversation has run its course, at least in this thread. If you have anything further to say then please take it to PM's. Otherwise I look forwards to finding you alone and correcting some of your assumptions, that is of course, if you ever leave the zerg....
    Wulfhram (Hunter), Boborrin (Champ), Garrth (Captain) assorted others

  7. #32
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    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Congratulations you guys play a video game.
    Jeffaman-Guarding Hobbit Jeffro-Burgling Hobbit Tinulaurien-Elf Lore Master Cephus-Champion of Men Lilnooblet-Hunting Hobbit Jeffrandir-Snooty Elf Rune-keeper- All of Brandywine
    Long live the halflings! Praise them with great praise!
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  8. #33
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    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffor View Post
    Congratulations you guys play a video game.

    Haha.

    + Rep.

    And............+ 1 for me!

  9. #34

    Re: Defiler vs ?

    How does a weaver beat a defiler in a spar? Defilers will literally have 4 HoTs stacked on them given the 10s duration before the spar begins. And before the defiler is out of power it should be able to put 2-3 of them back up at least. Then when the defiler is out of power and the HoTs are bout to wear off, it can just use a power pot. It is likely to always end in a draw, but the spar simply doesn't last long enough for a spider to win. I thought people spoke of being a good defiler or knowing them but then claim they lose to spiders in spars, sounds like a hoax.

    Same with wargs, cramer. Warg's have the disadvantage because their powerdrain is 30s duration, 45s cd I believe. So the defiler will be better with power against warg than a spider.

    If spars lasted 1-2 minutes longer a warg could definately win every time, but not how it is currently set up.

  10. #35
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    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by pibob314 View Post
    I'm sorry that you don't know any decent defilers then.
    What would a decent defiler do?
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  11. #36
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    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by timmyloo22546 View Post
    How does a weaver beat a defiler in a spar? Defilers will literally have 4 HoTs stacked on them given the 10s duration before the spar begins.
    I normally don't hot up before a prearranged spar begins because I consider that to be "cheating". So I often don't get a chance to do one of the big hots unless I fear the opponent or have gathered enough distance to allow the induction to finish.

    If I were sparring a minstrel, I'd not want them to use fellowship's heart before the spar begins. Buffs are one thing, but I think heals should wait until the fight actually starts.
    Ijustpassedgas Excuseme
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  12. #37
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    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by pibob314 View Post
    Most RK's I can just melt with melee kiting and HoT'ing on the run, fear/big heal if they get any big crits. The best RK's, with the best gear though, require more precision and purpose. Start every fight with a full complement of HoT's on. Get to melee whilst the rk is zapping you, trust the HoT's that you have on, don't waste power on refreshing them if you don't have to. Fear. Before you do anything, fear. Don't hit him. Now get some range, load on your -vit curse and plague of flies (don't do damage so shouldn't break fear), fire gourd him/her up. Back to melee, whack him a couple of times, (I sometimes refrain from using Tenderise at all vs. some classes because the random chance to stun really messes up my timing with regards to diminshing returns), refresh your HoT's, you should be still more-or-less full whilst the RK is at ~2k.
    RKs don't ever slow you? The slow makes getting out of range far enough for a gourd pretty much impossible.

    I don't bother with tenderize in spars. Fear I often use but with some freeps they either resist it or pot out of it.

    I do have a problem with spamming the hots on myself when they're not needed, usually as measure of desperation. It's pointless to do that, but habits are hard to break.

    I often get hit for 3k crits by RKs, sometimes 4k. I don't spec for crit defense as I didn't notice a change before and after the trait was slotted. Regardless of whether the trait was slotted, the huge crits still occurred. Have any of you actually noticed a difference when that trait was slotted?

    Thanks for the tips.
    Ijustpassedgas Excuseme
    Yeasty Infection

  13. #38

    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by KillGore81 View Post
    Defilers are insane to kill 1v1 but, I wouldn't say top of the food chain. Unless it's a fight club, defilers take ages to kill anyone through slowly dwindling them down. In that time whatever they're fighting can either call in reinforcements or vice versa... hence not making it a 1v1 anymore.

    Part of what makes a strong 1v1 class is one that can kill quickly before interuptions. So, I'd give the 'top of the food chain" for 1v1 honors to wargs and reavers.
    top of the food chain generally means you don't get beat are very rarely do...since your top dog no one will want to fight you. Defilers are the top of the food chain since people have to call in help when its 1 on 1 since theres a good chance the defilers gonna beat them. Reavers and wargs on the other hand have a far greater chance to be beaten by any class then a defiler ever will. So the OP's title of top of the food chain is correctly placed on a high rank defiler.
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  14. #39
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    Re: Defiler vs ?

    pibob314, have you ever lost to a lore-master?
    "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle, and quick to anger!"
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  15. #40

    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by elderlygamer View Post
    I normally don't hot up before a prearranged spar begins because I consider that to be "cheating". So I often don't get a chance to do one of the big hots unless I fear the opponent or have gathered enough distance to allow the induction to finish.

    If I were sparring a minstrel, I'd not want them to use fellowship's heart before the spar begins. Buffs are one thing, but I think heals should wait until the fight actually starts.
    How a defiler can lose to a spider that way makes sense; I wouldn't agree with starting the fight without HoTs on tho. Against a freep I could see that. I'd prefer to start them how you'd randomly encounter them on the battlefield without always expecting them to occur. But sparring creep vs creep is different imo

    Quote Originally Posted by elderlygamer View Post
    I often get hit for 3k crits by RKs, sometimes 4k. I don't spec for crit defense as I didn't notice a change before and after the trait was slotted. Regardless of whether the trait was slotted, the huge crits still occurred. Have any of you actually noticed a difference when that trait was slotted?

    Thanks for the tips.
    If you have slick flesh only: 7.4% crit and 2.3% dev
    Slick Flesh + R2 crit protect: 9.1% and 2.9%
    Slick Flesh + R1&R2 crit protection: 9.9% and 3.2%

    That is including R3 armour passives.
    Last edited by timmyloo22546; May 18 2010 at 06:17 PM.

  16. #41
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    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by elderlygamer View Post
    RKs don't ever slow you? The slow makes getting out of range far enough for a gourd pretty much impossible.

    I don't bother with tenderize in spars. Fear I often use but with some freeps they either resist it or pot out of it.

    I do have a problem with spamming the hots on myself when they're not needed, usually as measure of desperation. It's pointless to do that, but habits are hard to break.

    I often get hit for 3k crits by RKs, sometimes 4k. I don't spec for crit defense as I didn't notice a change before and after the trait was slotted. Regardless of whether the trait was slotted, the huge crits still occurred. Have any of you actually noticed a difference when that trait was slotted?

    Thanks for the tips.
    Crit protection reduces the chance to crit, but not the magnitude of the crit once it goes off. I do notice on my dog when i have the crit protection slotted (and a defiler one) a significant reduction in the crits i get.
    Rank 14 Minstrel, Rank 10 Rune-keeper, Rank 7 Champion
    Rank 11 Weaver, Rank 11 Blackarrow, Rank 10 Reaver, Rank 10 Stalker, Rank 9 Defiler, Rank 7 Warleader

  17. #42

    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by pibob314 View Post
    Most RK's I can just melt with melee kiting and HoT'ing on the run, fear/big heal if they get any big crits. The best RK's, with the best gear though, require more precision and purpose. Start every fight with a full complement of HoT's on. Get to melee whilst the rk is zapping you, trust the HoT's that you have on, don't waste power on refreshing them if you don't have to. Fear. Before you do anything, fear. Don't hit him. Now get some range, load on your -vit curse and plague of flies (don't do damage so shouldn't break fear), fire gourd him/her up. Back to melee, whack him a couple of times, (I sometimes refrain from using Tenderise at all vs. some classes because the random chance to stun really messes up my timing with regards to diminshing returns), refresh your HoT's, you should be still more-or-less full whilst the RK is at ~2k. Don't be afraid to stand still and try to get off fire gourd. The pay-off of the DoT when the RK is at low health is worth the induction set back and time it takes to load the skill. If you get it on, you know the RK is going to get slowly drained down so you can spend the remainder of the fight melee kiting and HoT'ing to protect yourself from the big crits.
    If you have time to mess around with plague of flies (why would you use this skill?) vs a RK and stand there to throw gourds the RK is definately doing something incredibly wrong.

    lethargic does break defiler fear. When you put "(don't do damage so shouldn't break fear)" it really sounds like you are talking theoretically and never put your strat to the test or even have a defiler for that matter. You try n sound like you have lots of experience but you haven't even realized your debuffs will break your own fear after all those ranks you managed to achieve.
    Last edited by timmyloo22546; May 18 2010 at 06:08 PM.

  18. #43
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    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by bedelian View Post
    lol So Says Cramer
    ?

    123456789

  19. #44
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    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by pibob314 View Post
    Good Guards will almost always beat Weavers if they use their emergencies and resets. Shield-specced Wardens should always win too since they can outlast the Weaver, especially if they use hatchlings (aoe drains), UNLESS, the Weaver uses the debuff that reduces all skill range by 10m (can't remember its name, sorry). I'm sure it's a bug at the moment but that effect Warden's Taunt (the yellow gambit builder) and reduces it's range to 0m and effectively neuters the Warden for the most part. Expect this to change though.
    Weavers destroy wardens regardless of whether or not VH is used... (power drain>using power to heal) And pledge doesn't defend against any weaver skills except for PA.
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  20. #45
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    Re: Defiler vs ?

    I've watched wardens win 1v1's against spiders. You would need a set strategy, setup with what if's, and knowing what to do through those.

  21. #46

    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bedelian View Post
    pibob314, have you ever lost to a lore-master?
    Negative....
    Wulfhram (Hunter), Boborrin (Champ), Garrth (Captain) assorted others

  22. #47
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    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Notaforumguy007 View Post
    top of the food chain generally means you don't get beat are very rarely do...since your top dog no one will want to fight you. Defilers are the top of the food chain since people have to call in help when its 1 on 1 since theres a good chance the defilers gonna beat them. Reavers and wargs on the other hand have a far greater chance to be beaten by any class then a defiler ever will. So the OP's title of top of the food chain is correctly placed on a high rank defiler.
    Burglars and guardians are the only classes that can beat a good reaver, Champs Guardians Burgs Wardens all have a shot against a defiler
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  23. #48
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    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by pibob314 View Post
    Negative....
    There must be some strategy a lore-master can use to drain the defiler's power, burn him down till he has about 4-3k morale left, stop him from using his big heal, use ents/lightning, and then stop him from using his big heal again and finish him off.

    It would have to be executed perfectly on the first time though because every time I 1v1 a defiler, once I run out of power there's no way I can kill him.
    "Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle, and quick to anger!"
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  24. #49
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    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Notaforumguy007 View Post
    top of the food chain generally means you don't get beat are very rarely do...
    Wargs and reavers fit that bill and have the ability to do it before help arrives. I'd say that makes them a stronger 1v1 class.

    Quote Originally Posted by Notaforumguy007 View Post
    since your top dog no one will want to fight you. Defilers are the top of the food chain since people have to call in help when its 1 on 1 since theres a good chance the defilers gonna beat them.
    No one wants to fight them because they take for friggin ever to kill even for 2 or 3 people. In that time help has been called in since you're more than likely standing on any given map point. Not to mention what's a defiler going to do to stop someone from running away? Again, that's where I say wargs and reavers are better.



    Quote Originally Posted by Notaforumguy007 View Post
    Reavers and wargs on the other hand have a far greater chance to be beaten by any class then a defiler ever will.
    They also have a far greater chance to beat any class since they can do it faster and before helps arrives (do I sound like a broken record yet?).

  25. #50

    Re: Defiler vs ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bedelian View Post
    There must be some strategy a lore-master can use to drain the defiler's power, burn him down till he has about 4-3k morale left, stop him from using his big heal, use ents/lightning, and then stop him from using his big heal again and finish him off.

    It would have to be executed perfectly on the first time though because every time I 1v1 a defiler, once I run out of power there's no way I can kill him.
    The closest a LM has come to beating me is by using his brand (no fear respites) and just spamming as much DPS as possible. The problem they have is that most of their inductions for big attacks are the same length as the induction for my big heal so it would have to be one of those stars alligning moments to stop it as easily and as often as you suggest.

    Kiting at the ~30m range with an Eagle pet is also a pretty effective strategy, but unfortunately, the LM's who have adopted this strat against me in the past were not the best geared. Perhaps a better geared LM could beat me if they went down this route, but as of yet, I can neither confirm nor deny...

    Power drain by an LM is not a good idea imo unless you begin it at max range because it is essentially a self imposed root. MoNF traited LM's don't drain all that much power anyway and a pot straight afterwards usually sorts any issues out.
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