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Thread: WAI?

  1. #1

    WAI?

    These are mechanics issues that I question as WAI or not. The issues consider that the tooltip says nothing of the aspect discussed and refer to game mechanics relavent to the skills in question. I'm bringing the subjects up for discussion not in an inflammatory manner but hopefully an objective one.

    Fire Arrow

    - cannot be blocked
    I as a guard can have pledge up, a shield on and be facing a BA only to have it's FA hit me. I will frequently see an evade when I see the animation of FA shot at me, but never a block. And, given pledge being +50% to both block and evade (debuffs would have no impact of this equating to over 100% additive) and both of these applying to ranged attacks from the front in game mechanics (special attacks sometimes will ignore block but seldom ranged ones), it seems that FA for some reason ignores block entirely and that this is counter to the normal for a ranged attack.

    - cannot be resisted
    A more subjective evidence on this, I've never consciously seen one on the initial impact nor any pulse. Evades occur and oddly seem to more often than my evade stat would suggest. I'm led to question whether resists are reading as evades or whether they just can't be resisted (and possibly have a higher evade chance in some way).

    Tendon Shred

    - cannot be parried (and possibly not blocked)
    Same evidence as FA with block and evade but instead considering parry and evade with no shield on. Parry and evade should both apply to melee skills in the front arc and yet tendon shred can hit (and I've never seen it parried) on the front arc of a guard using pledge.
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  2. #2
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    Re: WAI?

    How big was your sample space? How many times were those attacks evaded, how many times were they blocked, how many times were they parried, and how many times did they hit?

    What's your wound resistance? How many times did you let flaming arrow burn on you and out of those how many resisted? (Oh wait, you already said zero)
    Last edited by Brongdha; May 17 2010 at 03:57 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Re: WAI?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brongdha View Post
    How big was your sample space? How many times were those attacks evaded, how many times were they blocked, how many times were they parried, and how many times did they hit?

    What's your wound resistance? How many times did you let flaming arrow burn on you and out of those how many resisted? (Oh wait, you already said zero)
    Anyone can make up statistics
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    Re: WAI?

    I though only creeps were allowed to block ranged and parry FM openers (the ever-present parry from behind of my Trip ftl...)
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  5. #5

    Re: WAI?

    Remember, wargs can block with their ninja paws. you do not have ninja paws, thus you cannot block. hail Jalessa!
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  6. #6

    Re: WAI?

    Quote Originally Posted by snarfy View Post
    Anyone can make up statistics
    90% of statistics are made up.
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  7. #7
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    Re: WAI?

    Fire arrow can be resisted... I only really notice it when I have CBR turned on though.
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  8. #8

    Re: WAI?

    i have an idea lets have 10 BA's fire 1 fire arrow at aedred while he is in pledge facing all of them. If all 10 DoT's are applied then he is correct (then 10 BA's have roasted gaurd for dinner)
    I do it for the lulz. ~SnH~
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  9. #9
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    Re: WAI?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swiftstrike View Post
    I though only creeps were allowed to block ranged and parry FM openers (the ever-present parry from behind of my Trip ftl...)
    That's okay. Burgs evade my tendon shred from stealth, from behind, undetected, all the time. Even though NO attacks while undetected from stealth on either side are supposed to be B/P/Eable. So I guess it's even.
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  10. #10

    Re: WAI?

    Quote Originally Posted by sebo2yoface View Post
    i have an idea lets have 10 BA's fire 1 fire arrow at aedred while he is in pledge facing all of them. If all 10 DoT's are applied then he is correct (then 10 BA's have roasted gaurd for dinner)
    Except the ones evaded of course.
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  11. #11
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    Re: WAI?

    They are resistable, although the resists are rare, they are also blockable. However there are several things that can change the amount. There's puncturing arrows trait or whatever which is -1000 block chance or something, along with a skill that in exchange for 10% damage, gives -15% block and evade of the target.

    Edit: Also...I really hate to ask this but...by annyyyyy chaaaaance were you in OP when you did this and thus didn't wear/have a shield?...Just saying...Most guards do go OP nowadays....
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  12. #12
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    Re: WAI?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aurthur View Post
    Most guards do go OP nowadays....
    And why wouldn't they? There's literally no discernible downside to using it in the Moors.
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  13. #13
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    Re: WAI?

    I have tested Pounce/stun from stealth before. 100/100 attempts landed while attacking from the front, and then from the back, of a target. Testing was done while the target had 15% evade, 15% block, 15% parry, or various combinations of Block, Parry, and Evade. None of the tests included the warg having Dust in the Eyes.
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  14. #14
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    Re: WAI?

    Quote Originally Posted by olagaton View Post
    I have tested Pounce/stun from stealth before. 100/100 attempts landed while attacking from the front, and then from the back, of a target. Testing was done while the target had 15% evade, 15% block, 15% parry, or various combinations of Block, Parry, and Evade. None of the tests included the warg having Dust in the Eyes.
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  15. #15
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    Re: WAI?

    Quote Originally Posted by olagaton View Post
    I have tested Pounce/stun from stealth before. 100/100 attempts landed while attacking from the front, and then from the back, of a target. Testing was done while the target had 15% evade, 15% block, 15% parry, or various combinations of Block, Parry, and Evade. None of the tests included the warg having Dust in the Eyes.
    While you were testing did you let them see you before you pounced?
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  16. #16
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    Re: WAI?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brongdha View Post
    While you were testing did you let them see you before you pounced?
    No, each pounce was from full stealth.
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  17. #17
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    Re: WAI?

    Test it again with letting them see you before you pounce. I think the results will be different (less than 100%).
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  18. #18
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    Re: WAI?

    Quote Originally Posted by Brongdha View Post
    Test it again with letting them see you before you pounce. I think the results will be different (less than 100%).
    I have tested burglar attacks from stealth as well. Many of a burgs attacks, without being detected, still miss due to BPE/misses. This leads me to believe that either Pounce is broken (or has an extra effect that prevents it from being BPE'd/missed), or that Burg stealth attacks are broken (or not broken and are supposed to be able to be BPE'd/miss). Either way, it's not the same for both sides stealth classes.
    [SIZE="2"][COLOR="Yellow"]I guarantee your level 65 r0 greenie BA will contribute more to your Creep raid than my level 2 Minstrel will contribute to my Freep raid. After all, both took about 5 seconds to create.[/COLOR][/size]
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  19. #19
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    Re: WAI?

    Yes, it IS the same for both sides. Tendon Shred is easily evadable from stealth, as I have already mentioned.

    It's broken on both sides. No attacks while undetected in stealth are supposed to be avoided.
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  20. #20
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    Re: WAI?

    Quote Originally Posted by AroJay View Post
    Yes, it IS the same for both sides.
    Except that evidence shows otherwise.
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  21. #21

    Re: WAI?

    Quote Originally Posted by olagaton View Post
    Except that evidence shows otherwise.
    Usually evidence is presented in such a way that it can be reviewed and verified by impartial others. Without some form of review process, "evidence" loses credibility and any conclusions drawn from it can quite easily be dismissed as "made up".
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  22. #22
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    Re: WAI?

    Quote Originally Posted by pibob314 View Post
    Usually evidence is presented in such a way that it can be reviewed and verified by impartial others. Without some form of review process, "evidence" loses credibility and any conclusions drawn from it can quite easily be dismissed as "made up".
    The key word being usually. I suppose we'll have to categorize this outside of the "usual" situation. However, in this particular case, there is obvious evidence that you have no clue how to debate on a forum or get your point across, especially since you can't get past the basics.

    But I will indulge you. The evidence, although not publicly accessible, has still happened, regardless of whether you believe it was made up or not. The testing procedure was flawless (and very easy to administer), and the results I obtained illustrated what I have now posted. Sure, I could post my test publicly, but what good would it do? I know the results, and the actual gameplay content reinforces the result. I'm not looking for your approval, or anyone elses approval on the topic, anyways. Especially not of the approval from the caliber of forum poster typically found on these forums. Now if Turbine wants me to give them my test results, because they feel it is a broken aspect of the game, then I would be happy to give it to them. As of now, i have yet to be contacted by Turbine regarding the matter of Pounce/Stealth hit rate.

    Remember, evidence, whether public or not, is still evidence.
    Last edited by olagaton; May 21 2010 at 01:43 PM.
    [SIZE="2"][COLOR="Yellow"]I guarantee your level 65 r0 greenie BA will contribute more to your Creep raid than my level 2 Minstrel will contribute to my Freep raid. After all, both took about 5 seconds to create.[/COLOR][/size]
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  23. #23
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    Re: WAI?

    This kind of thing is all over the place in the code, especially between creeps/freeps. This is just another place where the creeps have the upper hand and I doubt Turbine will ever do jack about it. Wargs will deny it, while evidence shows it to be true. Such is the way of things.

    Thanks for doing the research, though. I have seen the same thing, but haven't taken the time to actually test it quantifiably.
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  24. #24
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    Re: WAI?

    Deny what, exactly?
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  25. #25
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    Re: WAI?

    Any evidence you "obtained" yourself Olagaton is immediately held in doubt cause everyone knows your reputation for holding your opinion as the only correct one and how you'd argue forever that you are right and that the other conflicting opinion is wrong regardless of how much information could be available disproving you.

    Don't mean it so much as a personal attack but just the reality as I and many have come to experience it.
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