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  1. #51
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    GV Steps
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    Re: Is it true ? Stars = skill ?

    Quote Originally Posted by elderlygamer View Post
    Well you don't play like a star hugger, imho.


    I'll be sure to spread the word creep side.
    By all means, do so. I did it with a minstrel, I can do it on a burg. Either way, you still can't catch me.

  2. #52

    Re: Is it true ? Stars = skill ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jennirich View Post
    By all means, do so. I did it with a minstrel, I can do it on a burg. Either way, you still can't catch me.

    Run, Forrest, run!

  3. #53

    Re: Is it true ? Stars = skill ?

    Quote Originally Posted by olagaton View Post
    ....here is where the issue lies. Freep deaths BENEFIT Creeps (this is assuming you're dying on your freep, and not caring). This is an innate mechanic of the game, and as such, a Freep death that benefits Creeps also affects other Freeps who have to face those newly strengthened Creeps. Your apathy and actions are affecting everyone elses gameplay experience. It's not a hard concept to understand, either -- opponent gets stronger when I die -- but people disregard it, and choose to play selfishly. For example, I don't see players doing Durchest, Twins or Lt dying on purpose or taking highly risky chances, and those events have penalties for players that die. It's the same concept, but people treat it differently. And furthermore, raid leaders don't allow that type of behavior on BG raids (if you play selfishly, they will boot you), but they will allow it in the 'moors. If Creeps didn't get stronger, I doubt anyone would have a problem with others dying as much as they wanted. I know I wouldn't. Unfortunately, the mechanic that is set in place does not cater very well to suicidal or experimental players, and people who play correctly to the mechanic get screwed over by these suicidal and experimental players in the long run.
    Well, here's another point where our opinions differ. I am not "dieing on purpose" that would be plain stupid and I'm not purposely feeding creeps, however, I really don't care if they get some bonus off of killing me. The creeps (in general) are good people, if they win a fight fair and square against me then good for them, they beat me and they get a reward. Its not like I'm running into the middle of 5 creeps solo and spamming ents hopeing to get a kill, I dont find that fun, I find that boring. If there are 2 creeps that I think I could take on and survive for a decent amount of time, I will do it even if they kill me. If I can take one down then I feel great, usually I don't win 2v1's over all, depending on the classes + rank + skill of the creeps, but it really doesn't matter to me that I loose or that they gain anything. I play for fun not to dominate, I really don't care if a creep gets 500 infamy off me as long as I (and hopefully them) had fun doing it.
    [CENTER][COLOR=lightblue]Iinferno - r12 LM[/COLOR][COLOR=red] IVillKillU - r8 Reaver[/COLOR][COLOR=orange] Dongramorthil - Warden[/COLOR] [COLOR=Magenta]Doalin - Hunter [/COLOR][COLOR=#696969]​Defaelearin - RK [/COLOR][COLOR=#8b4513]Dongrailin - Captain [/COLOR][COLOR=#add8e6](Officer of Preying Mantis)[/COLOR]
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  4. #54
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    Apr 2009
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    Re: Is it true ? Stars = skill ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anetheroc View Post
    Wow, you have some serious hate for people who don't play the same way you do. This thread is very entertaining!
    Yea, I do have hate for people who join my group and stand in the back and leech off the rest of us who are actually fighting. Just boot them from the group, and then no one brings them in.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    5,662

    Re: Is it true ? Stars = skill ?

    Quote Originally Posted by aad0italian View Post
    Yea, I do have hate for people who join my group and stand in the back and leech off the rest of us who are actually fighting. Just boot them from the group, and then no one brings them in.
    Perhaps they are not leeching. Perhaps you are pre-maturely attacking. It's all in perspective.
    [SIZE="2"][COLOR="Yellow"]I guarantee your level 65 r0 greenie BA will contribute more to your Creep raid than my level 2 Minstrel will contribute to my Freep raid. After all, both took about 5 seconds to create.[/COLOR][/size]
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0a20b000000085aec/signature.png]Chea[/charsig]

  6. #56
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    May 2007
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    1,005

    Re: Is it true ? Stars = skill ?

    Quote Originally Posted by olagaton View Post
    Perhaps they are not leeching. Perhaps you are pre-maturely attacking. It's all in perspective.
    hes got you there

  7. #57

    Re: Is it true ? Stars = skill ?

    I've seen people with mediocre rating who are just as skilled as people who have high rating. I vew this subject more as a personal playstyle instead of deriving it as a measure of skill.

    I did have over 1800rating on my minstrel at one point. I made a decision to work on a high rating a while back and stuck with it for a couple days. After the first three days of playtime I went from 1200 rating to over 1800. I feel pretty confident that I would have maxed out within the week, but I had already accomplished what I set out for, and decided to go back to the way I normally play.

    At least from my perspective, playing that conservative felt like I was suspending my imagination from things I could have otherwise accomplished, or at the least; to make an attempt in overcoming odds where most other 'unskilled' people would fail.

    So no, I believe apples equal oranges is just as valid as the OP's question.

    If you decide on a high rating as a guideline for your playstyle, by all means goodluck! Burgs and Wargs will be the two strongest classes, and are also the most common classes to have high rating. I guess it just means there are lots of skilled wargs and burgs!

  8. #58

    Re: Is it true ? Stars = skill ?

    I think 5 stars = you play like a wuss. Being able to avoid death often does require skill and those players who play aggressively and yet mostly have ratings around 1200 to 1500 are probably a lot more skilled than the 5 star hugger. Death is an inevitable part of playing in the moors and the only way you get to 5 stars is with cowardly play -namely camping your cooldowns, hugging 1 shotters, leeching at the back of a raid, only taking on easy kills etc.

    To olagaton who seems to be saying it's the responsibility of freeps to avoid death because dying makes creeps stronger, I think he needs to remind himself that this is a game and the main point of playing is to have fun.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/042080100000cdc34/signature.png]Caldreth[/charsig]

  9. #59
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    Apr 2007
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    4,739

    Re: Is it true ? Stars = skill ?

    Generally no.

    In fact the only way stars can measure skill is if there is a long 1v1 tourney. A player takes on all challengers and ends the day with 4+ stars. I guess you could call that skill but really 1v1's are only one part of the game and depending on the class it can be much easier then with others. (ex. Wardens will do this MUCH easier then a BA)

    During bk6 when I walked away with 4 stars on my reaver (after winning 35 of 36 fights), it was something I was proud of, but in the end it really doesnt mean ****.

    EDIT: Oh and in general different classes will sit at different ratings doing the exact same thing. Camping paths on my spider solo I generally sit between 1350-1500 (though for a time I was in the 1700-1850 range) whereas if I do the same thing on my warg, fighting the exact same fights I will sit at 1700-1800 and higher if I actually waited for CD's just cause I have a better chance of escaping the raid zergs.

    -Morrdan/Weaver/Pre
    Last edited by BIZL; May 10 2010 at 02:14 AM.
    [url=http://my.lotro.com/character/nimrodel/bizladan/]Bizladan[/url] Hunter
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  10. #60
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    May 2007
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    1,005

    Re: Is it true ? Stars = skill ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jman33 View Post
    I think 5 stars = you play like a wuss.
    So 3 stars means your a *****? 4 stars means your a leecher?

    Not sure how you can say anyone with 5 stars is a wuss

  11. #61
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    Re: Is it true ? Stars = skill ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fladrif View Post
    hes got you there
    how does he got me there?

  12. #62
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    Re: Is it true ? Stars = skill ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jman33 View Post
    To olagaton who seems to be saying it's the responsibility of freeps to avoid death because dying makes creeps stronger, I think he needs to remind himself that this is a game and the main point of playing is to have fun.
    So you're saying you can't have fun while avoiding death? Expand your expectations of what is fun. Besides, games have rules, and the rules of PvMP state that freep deaths make Creeps stronger, so common sense (which not everyone has or displays) is that Freeps would want to play as well as they can without dying. Do you have fun dying in PvE? It's the same concept.
    [SIZE="2"][COLOR="Yellow"]I guarantee your level 65 r0 greenie BA will contribute more to your Creep raid than my level 2 Minstrel will contribute to my Freep raid. After all, both took about 5 seconds to create.[/COLOR][/size]
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0a20b000000085aec/signature.png]Chea[/charsig]

  13. #63
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    Jun 2009
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    The Ettenmoors
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    204

    Re: Is it true ? Stars = skill ?

    Look, the view of having 5 stars meaning that you have skill is not always true. The view of having no stars meaning that the player sucks is not always true either. Its a balance. One side (the 5star elite side) says if you have 5 stars your a great player. And if you have none you suck. While the other side (the people who have fun and die a lot) say you don't necessarily suck because you don't have stars, your just having fun, and if you do have stars, your not having fun and your an elitist who only cares about stars. Neither of those are completely true. As I said before, it is a mix between the two. Both sides have points and when mixed, imo, you see whether a player is truly skilled or not.

  14. #64
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    Apr 2007
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    4,739

    Re: Is it true ? Stars = skill ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Celindel View Post
    Look, the view of having 5 stars meaning that you have skill is not always true. The view of having no stars meaning that the player sucks is not always true either. Its a balance. One side (the 5star elite side) says if you have 5 stars your a great player. And if you have none you suck. While the other side (the people who have fun and die a lot) say you don't necessarily suck because you don't have stars, your just having fun, and if you do have stars, your not having fun and your an elitist who only cares about stars. Neither of those are completely true. As I said before, it is a mix between the two. Both sides have points and when mixed, imo, you see whether a player is truly skilled or not.
    Use common sense one more time and you're banned from these forums!

    -Morrdan/Weaver/Pre
    [url=http://my.lotro.com/character/nimrodel/bizladan/]Bizladan[/url] Hunter
    [url=http://my.lotro.com/character/nimrodel/bizldore/]Bizldore[/url] Burglar
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  15. #65
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    Re: Is it true ? Stars = skill ?

    Better yet:

    Stars = more efficient killer.
    [SIZE="2"][COLOR="Yellow"]I guarantee your level 65 r0 greenie BA will contribute more to your Creep raid than my level 2 Minstrel will contribute to my Freep raid. After all, both took about 5 seconds to create.[/COLOR][/size]
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0a20b000000085aec/signature.png]Chea[/charsig]

  16. #66
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
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    Florida
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    779

    Re: Is it true ? Stars = skill ?

    If you see a player with 5 stars in the Moors, they are probably a burg and you'll probably find them hanging around the greenie questing areas...a lot.

    So, to answer your question, no.

    Technically this game takes no skill at all, it's all just a roll of the dice when you boil it down.

  17. #67

    Re: Is it true ? Stars = skill ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Celindel View Post
    Look, the view of having 5 stars meaning that you have skill is not always true. The view of having no stars meaning that the player sucks is not always true either. Its a balance. One side (the 5star elite side) says if you have 5 stars your a great player. And if you have none you suck. While the other side (the people who have fun and die a lot) say you don't necessarily suck because you don't have stars, your just having fun, and if you do have stars, your not having fun and your an elitist who only cares about stars. Neither of those are completely true. As I said before, it is a mix between the two. Both sides have points and when mixed, imo, you see whether a player is truly skilled or not.
    I agree with this. The 5 star burgs on Landroval are pretty skill-less (unless you call standing in stealth while the rest of the group gets the kills, or hit the HIPS button after 500 points of damage "skill") but having five stars doesn't necessarily mean a person has no "skill" in-and-of itself.
    [CENTER][charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a01000008caad/signature.png]Tarbosh[/charsig]
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  18. #68
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    Dec 2007
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    Santa Barbara, CA
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    Re: Is it true ? Stars = skill ?

    Quote Originally Posted by olagaton View Post
    Better yet:

    Stars = more efficient escape artist or just plain lucky.
    Fixed that for you

  19. #69
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    Apr 2007
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    5,662

    Re: Is it true ? Stars = skill ?

    Quote Originally Posted by scogmyster View Post
    Fixed that for you
    No you didn't.
    [SIZE="2"][COLOR="Yellow"]I guarantee your level 65 r0 greenie BA will contribute more to your Creep raid than my level 2 Minstrel will contribute to my Freep raid. After all, both took about 5 seconds to create.[/COLOR][/size]
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0a20b000000085aec/signature.png]Chea[/charsig]

  20. #70
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    Apr 2007
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    Melbourne, Australia
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    Re: Is it true ? Stars = skill ?

    They're usually among the most skilled players in the PvP community on your server, they just happen to be after stars.

  21. #71

    Re: Is it true ? Stars = skill ?

    Quote Originally Posted by olagaton View Post
    Up until this point, I have no problem with your playstyle. You come to the 'moors to have fun, and are looking for certain aspects of PvMP to provide that fun. Fair enough. But....


    ....here is where the issue lies. Freep deaths BENEFIT Creeps (this is assuming you're dying on your freep, and not caring). This is an innate mechanic of the game, and as such, a Freep death that benefits Creeps also affects other Freeps who have to face those newly strengthened Creeps. Your apathy and actions are affecting everyone elses gameplay experience. It's not a hard concept to understand, either -- opponent gets stronger when I die -- but people disregard it, and choose to play selfishly. For example, I don't see players doing Durchest, Twins or Lt dying on purpose or taking highly risky chances, and those events have penalties for players that die. It's the same concept, but people treat it differently. And furthermore, raid leaders don't allow that type of behavior on BG raids (if you play selfishly, they will boot you), but they will allow it in the 'moors. If Creeps didn't get stronger, I doubt anyone would have a problem with others dying as much as they wanted. I know I wouldn't. Unfortunately, the mechanic that is set in place does not cater very well to suicidal or experimental players, and people who play correctly to the mechanic get screwed over by these suicidal and experimental players in the long run.


    That's fine too, but given the turning point in the fight, I would hope you would concede the victory and hightail it out to deny the infamy gain for the opponent.
    I didn't realise this game was entirely open PvP and creeps were able to travel beyond the moors and curtail the attempts of freeps to progress and advance their characters. Maybe there is a special server that I don't know about where creeps can stop freeps from levelling their toons, or grinding deeds, or obtaining armour, or stopping them from crafting or generally doing anything to stop freeps from developing their characters.

    Oh wait, my mistake, creeps can't do that all.

    So what is all this business about stopping the creeps from experiencing any form of character progression? Does one side pay less to play than the other? Are they for some reason less deserving of this luxury? I know there are people who take the lore and role-playing somewhat seriously, but this is, fundamentally, a GAME, which people pay to play and play to have fun. People invest A LOT of time playing games such as these and a basic desire of almost everyone who plays is that over time, they want their characters to get better at whatever it is they like doing.

    Actively, and philosophically, setting out to deny other HUMAN BEINGS (forget about freep or creep), the opportunity to enjoy something they pay for is really rather low. In my opinion, and it's only my opinion, it takes a very sick and twisted individual to derive pleasure from this sort of activity. Buddhists believe that true happiness is gained through selflessly helping others. I wonder about the opposite scenario.

    So your opponents in a game advance and get better. So what? All that means is that you will have to improve and get better yourself. Be that through grinding better gear (which incidentally creeps can do nothing to prevent), or simply becoming more skilled and experienced with reacting to different situations (which creeps can HELP you with). If you want the game to remain easy and all of your opponents to remain at the same difficulty level for all eternity, then I humbly suggest that MMO's are not for you.

    Just my 2c.

  22. #72
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    Oct 2007
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    2,901

    Re: Is it true ? Stars = skill ?

    Yes, it's true.

    You can lock this thread, now.

  23. #73
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    Re: Is it true ? Stars = skill ?

    "the opportunity to enjoy something they pay for" - olagaton

    No one has a right to pleasure. You can buy an account for the game; whether you enjoy the game is largely incidental because you pay for access either-way until you decide otherwise.

    No player is obliged to maximise other player's pleasure. Even kin officers and leaders, only to ensure an fair environment of social inclusion.

  24. #74
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    Re: Is it true ? Stars = skill ?

    Quote Originally Posted by olagaton View Post
    No you didn't.
    Yes, I did.

  25. #75
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    Mar 2008
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    Tirith Rhaw
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    Re: Is it true ? Stars = skill ?

    Everyone has some reason to go to the Moors if they're out there. Some people go out to have fun. Some people go out to rank up and see progression. Some people go out to socialize and have fun with tribe/kinmates. Some people enjoy achieving challenging objectives. Having 5 stars is challenging regardless of class, but its just another reason to go out to the Moors. I'd rather up my KB total than hug stars. Its hard atm for freeps other than burgs.


    This idea that having 5 stars means you're a better player is non-sense. There are exceptions. Just because you have stars doesn't mean you're a good player, it just means you play conservatively and don't stick your neck out every now and then to get a kill. Not having stars just means you're more aggressive and go for kills. The idea that having alot of stars means you're more efficient is clearly from someone who doesn't PvP right now.

 

 
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