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  1. #1

    Question sword / board 1h/hally

    I'm sure this has been beaten to death, but I figured I'll ask again with all SoM changes.

    My friend and I, both rolled cappies. He is in his 55s I'm still in my 30s. Recently out kin was running rift, and was looking for a cappy - I suggested his (the level is just right). The answer that I got back was to the point of "he doesn’t really know how to play cappy, he is running the toon with sword and board. Any good captain uses halberd …. if he wants to bring his 65 champ in , he is welcome..."

    So I asked why, and I don't think I got a coherent answer back as to why "all good captains" run with halberds.”
    My understanding is:
    1) cappy's job is not to do damage but to keep the party buffed up
    2) keep mobs away from the mini
    3) heal as much as possible

    Halberds will allow an easier agro pull from the mini, which makes sense. Aside from that though - why would a cappy run with 2h? A good shield will add some stats and increase survivability -- it is not cappy's job to dps, but to buff, so even if there is a minor drop in dps, no biggie. If a mini gets aggroed, then quick switch to a 2h to pull the mob might come in handy.
    What am I missing here?
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0b20c0000000eb9a8/signature.png]Lariva[/charsig]
    [IMG]http://www.speedtest.net/result/651472857.png[/IMG]

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    3,025

    Re: sword / board 1h/hally

    I am of the opinion that if a Captain is just sitting there buffing and healing, they are not fulfilling their greatest potential. A Captain has more to contribute to that, even with lower dps than most other classes. Now, that's not to say that a shield and one-hander isn't ok! It certainly is. But your assumption that a Captain shouldn't be doing any damage, just buffing and healing is (in my opinion, obviously) faulty. You can absolutely run with a sword and shield if you want to, but except for extreme cases while solo-healing some content, I don't think it's truly necessary and you can contribute more to your group getting in there and adding some damage.
    Narlinde, level 100 Minstrel, Rank 11, Member of Trucido ~ Windfola

  3. Re: sword / board 1h/hally

    Honestly, for grouping the type of weapon is far less important than the legacies. The damage difference between one handers and two handers is relatively small solo and just this side of meaningless in a group context. It is true that a captain should be in the thick of things, as Cloudie-wan suggests and, all things being equal, I'd prefer a magnificent two-handed weapon to a one-hander (personally I prefer greatsword to halberd but that is a different debate). But a top-notch one-hander with all the bells and whistles is going to give much better support to the group than a merely decent two-hander.

    As for survivability: I'm not sure that the shield is going to make a huge difference unless you are main tanking. The tank will have most of the heavy hitting aggro and between defensive strike and heavy armour and self-heals you should be self-sufficient. If you are really taking too much damage you could use withdraw but I have done that maybe 3 times in as many years. The shield will often have ICPR which is nice, but mostly this just balances out a faster rate of power consumption due to faster weapon speed. As a captain I am looking to get more aggro far far more often than I am looking to lose it.

    As to halberds: they are nice in that they have a marginal added aggro (it isn't going to make a huge difference) and their 2% damage bonus is "free," but these differences are minimal. Personally, for hard content I would prefer the greatsword for the increased "to hit" chance, but again I doubt it is going to make a noticeable difference.

    Final word: I think there may be something wrong with the culture of your kin if it is going to second-guess a standing members choices in how he plays his character. For myself, I wouldn't respond graciously to a response that was (a) judgmental and (b) wrong.
    Last edited by seyahat; Apr 29 2010 at 10:27 AM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a00000033326e/01008/signature.png]doronor[/charsig]

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Falathlorn
    Posts
    574

    Re: sword / board 1h/hally

    Captains have power issues and if your buddy uses a sword/board combo, his power issues are going to be even worse due to the higher weapon speed. A captain with no power is no help to anyone.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/042080000000012d6/01003/signature.png]Ancaliman[/charsig]

  5. #5

    Re: sword / board 1h/hally

    sounds like your raid leader was an idiot.

    while sword and board is totally viable, id much rather use a 2 hander in a group. you shouldnt be taking a ton of damage, and a light shield isnt gonna do much even if you are taking damage. the extra stats are nice, but id rather have the extra damage from a 2 hander. healing and buffing certainly shouldnt stop a captain from being in the thick of things doing damage. on top of all that, most captains will use a 2 hander solo, and levelling another LI can be a pain

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Blackshear, GA
    Posts
    3,188

    Re: sword / board 1h/hally

    My captain has a pretty decent level 65 halberd, and a 1st age one-handed sword. The sword is a glorious buffing weapon. I have it leveled to 70 and fully ranked up. I also carry the best light shield I could find. IF in a group and for some reason I find I must step in to tank, depending on circumstances I use the sword and shield. I run HoH though so I am by no means a tank! I normally use the halberd.

    In addition to healing/off healing, buffing and debuffing, I do my best to get in there and hack away at the mobs! Granted the dps is nothing compared to a burg or champ, but with the tank or main dps shield brothered I am not only damaging mobs but additionally able to heal the shield brother and the whole group through some of my attacks.
    [URL="http://www.council-of-eraidor.com"][/URL]

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Landroval
    Posts
    1,166

    Re: sword / board 1h/hally

    Further down on the front page of the captain forum: http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=327707

    The "halberd only" bit is out of date and out of touch since SoM, IMO. Either 2H/1H is fine, and can depend on the situation, and you have to adjust your playstyle to each appropriately in terms of power consumption.

    /whatever
    [url="https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?506048-Talent-trees-class-roles-and-player-choice"]Talent trees, class roles, and player choice[/url]
    Crafting crit chance analysis: [URL="https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?410893-Sample-size-THREE-THOUSAND"]3000 sample size[/URL], [URL="https://www.lotro.com/forums/showthread.php?420198-Sample-size-ONE-THOUSAND"]1000 sample size[/URL]

  8. #8

    Re: sword / board 1h/hally

    Pre-Mirkwood, the halberd was the ultimate captain weapon. Heavy crits and low power consumption thanks to slower attack speed. Thanks to the new "let's make all weapons cosmetic" combat changes in Mirkwood, you can get the same damage with a 2H great sword with the 2% racial sword bonus. Heck, I'd run with a 2H club if they'd give us a 2% racial damage bonus for it just so I could beat mobs to death with a baseball bat.

    2H weapons are still good for off-tanking and even for DPSing if you build your attributes like a champion (might and agility over will and fate).
    Thanks,

    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d0000000b138e/01007/signature.png]Malranphor[/charsig]

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
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    Posts
    3,188

    Re: sword / board 1h/hally

    I use the halberd because to me it just seems so "captainy".... I prefer daggers for my burg and hunter just because it "feels" right... I would prefer a sword or dagger for my minstrel, but the best lvl 65 I came across ended up being a stooopid club, which I hate the look of, but oh well.
    [URL="http://www.council-of-eraidor.com"][/URL]

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    457

    Re: sword / board 1h/hally

    Bad captains have power issues at 65.
    Good captains know how to control them selves and run properly in terms of gear and traits/legacies.

    I run with 3200 power and 1k ICPR. With full buffs i go up 3.5k power and 1.1k ICPR
    I have yet to run below 1k power in most fight and when i do i use a blue put and i am good to go.

    Sword and Board is very viable now. Yes you loose some DPS but in the end the loss of your personal DPS is not going to be felt. If you have a good 1h LI and a decent shield you will be as effective as you with a 2h.

    It is all dependent on Legacies then the DPS now.
    I would go with a 2h most of the time but in some fights i can see my self going with s/b.
    Also halberd is nice but i prefer swords. That native 2% extra damamge is not going to really make a night and day difference
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000015b084/01008/signature.png]Dropofhoney[/charsig]

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    7,600

    Re: sword / board 1h/hally

    Really, it's up to whatever LI you can get that's the best. Sure you can get an extra 2% damage using a sword or halberd, but since the LI system is ruled by the Random Number Generator, you might as well NOT limit yourself to any weapon type, and level up ALL of the 2handed ones.... That 2 handed hammer that you've been mocking might turn out to be the best LI you've ever seen.

    On the subject of sword and boarding.... I've been using a one handed first age buff weapon loaded with Will legacies (hopefully getting the telling mark and -cost legacies), and paired with a good caster shield, to aid with healing while raiding. Otherwise... why sacrifice the damage.

    Yeah, we aren't known for our DPS, but helping stuff die faster is NEVER a bad thing. Playing like you're in the Blind One fight (stand back and spam Words of Courage with Rallying Cry thrown in whenever something dies) is a poor way to heal, because you aren't using 2 of heals, Valiant Strike and Inspire, both of which are melee attacks. In addition, each time you use Battle Shout, followed by Pressing Attack or Devastating Blow, you are also getting a chance to get a rallying cry off. This is one of the reasons why I like having the +crit and +melee offence relics in LIs over the heal one.

    A bad captain will ONLY do damage or ONLY heal, while a good captain should be able to weave in Words of Courage, Valiant Strike, and Inspire into their attacks, so that they can do BOTH DPS and healing. There are some exceptions, like the Blind One, but you should be able to use most of our skills (save our panic buttons) all the time. An exceptional captain knows how to use the panic buttons appropriately.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    457

    Re: sword / board 1h/hally

    Agreed, captains are front line healers, 3 of our heals are related to on being in melee range.
    Inspire and VS and RC via PA/DB.
    Then you have RC, WoC as your ranged heals

    Yeah RC is in both groups since it is effected by both melee range and standing back and waiting on on defeat responses.

    When i said sword I would use it for its extra to hit since you will not have super high agility, but it is not an essential thing. In the end they sword and halberd win out due to their 2% bonus but it is not something you may even notice, and the sword will be on top for its to hit over extra threat.

    In the end it does not matter if you have a 2h or a s/b setup. As long as your legacies are there so that you can contribute to the fight, ie telling mark being at 10% via legacy you are doing your job and unless you are in a very low DPS group the lower damage output from s/b is not going to be really felt by the group.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000015b084/01008/signature.png]Dropofhoney[/charsig]

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    264

    Re: sword / board 1h/hally

    Nothing beats the extra ICPR from a Legendary Sword w/ relics for + ICPR or Fate replacements & a Shield w/ ICPR - keeping your Fate & Power Regen (1200+) high, enabling you to do a better job healing, especially if you're HoH - you cannot get the same ICPR with a Halberd.

    Now, that being said, this is very situational. In boss fights, long DPS races, a halberd is more important. In some of the boss fights with more moving fights you may end up doing more healing and support - in which case switch off to sword & board. The blind one and some stages of Durchest HM comes to mind where you may need the ICPR.

    Still and all, you can't always stand off - you're have two attacks, one group one SB-targetted, that are heals - which means you have to get in close.

    So, I would say - it's all situational.

    As for the Halberd +threat/Grave Wound meaning anything for tanking - not that I've seen yet.

    But, that's my opinion
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/07206000000010b0e/01003/signature.png]Samthelion[/charsig]

 

 

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