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Thread: LT Guide

  1. #1

    LT Guide

    I didn't have the ability to post as many screenshots as I wanted in my BG Factual Information section so for those who are interested and don't really have a plan for the LT fight I hope these simple pictures and definitions will help more groups have a good shot at this.

    Understand that although you won't always tank at the gate, or will the puddles be in these exact locations you may use the exactly same setup along any wall.

    Phase 1: (The bird):


    The beast as I'll call him hits hard. If you are melee on the bird you must have life insurance (stun immunity). Have stun immunity at all times if you are within melee range of the bird or he can turn stun you and no power on earth will save you. I used to laugh at this until my 11k morale guard got killed before I could hit turn the tables. There is only one eye in phase 1 the yellow eye. If you have the yellow eye that means the bird is attempting to catch you, pounce you and feed on your flesh for a 10k heal. You must kite the bird if you have the yellow eye and watch your debuff on your bar it starts out at about 30 seconds and ticks down to 0, when it hits 0 the bird will stop moving and perform an attack, at about 3 seconds call out new yellow eye and the melee will get away from the bird. Each time the takes off and lands he will reset all your marks so ensure to reset them when he turns red after landing for maximum DPS. The beast will fly up and land in a random location placing a purple fear puddle on the ground, the idea for phase one as you will be running around the entire room for phase 3 is to burn the bird so there is only 2 puddles on the map.

    Black in the path the raid will take if you should get a yellow eye
    Red is the path the bird will take


    As shown above the bird will be kited in a circle that does not fill up the whole room. The reason I chose this path is for maximum DPS and control. When the player with yellow eye has 2 seconds left he will call out "New yellow eye." At this time players will watch melee, move more inside the red circle towards the raid. After the yellow eye is fixated they will take the red line and melee will fill in behind following along the red line.


    Phase 2: (The transition):

    Introduction to the purple eye: This is the most deadly eye in BG Anyone who comes within a 10M (2 sqrs) radius of you will be hit hard enough depending on health for a 1 shot. If you have the purple eye and you are with the group at tank location you need to move immediatley and position yourself in a safe location avoiding 1) the main group and 2) the bird kiter. (Note: If a pet of any sort has a purple eye indenify it and don't worry about it, it will damage nobody just call out when the eye is gone and a new one is inbound).

    The purple eye.
    Black is the middle line of death that you should avoid
    Purple line is the route a player will take with the purple eye
    Purple cloud is the location of a fear deposit
    Yellow line is the route a person will take when they have yellow eye.


    As shown above the purple eye the second he is identified will run to the purple cloud along the upper path. The reason I chose this path is because it is farther angle to the wall and standing by a fear puddle makes the odds higher of the person with the yellow or anyone running around there to be aware of the player with purple eye. When his fear is gone the player will run along the wall the avoid the next incomming purple eye should there be one more fast then usual or if he is slightly slow in waiting after the purple eye is gone. When your purple eye is gone say: "New purple eye." At this time the raid will prepare whos next.

    Introduction to the fear: Any person may randomly be stunned and feared, the only exception (as of April 26 2010) is neither the yellow eye carrier or the tank will get this or the purple eye. There is a chance while you are feared you will run in any random direction, if you have the purple eye you may charge towards the group.

    Dealing with the fear: To avoid being feared with the purple eye right into the main group when safely off to the side, ensure you are standing more then far enough away that either the fear wont put you all the way over there or you are at least far enough away to call out you are incoming with death. If you get feared with the purple eye right inside the group, it is the raids responsibility to move on your call and their alertness, death at a failure to do so if the person calls this out immediatley is not the eye carriers fault.

    Dealing with with multiple eyes: It is possible to get the yellow and purple eye, if this happens you will simply kite the bird normally and have everyone know you have the eye. It is imperative the entire raid knows who has the purple eye and where it is. Failure to do so will result in people walking randomly into a purple eye and dying.

    Consequences of a death: During phase 1 nothing will happen when a player dies. But during phase 2 or 3 if a person dies a enhanced wight will spawn out of the boss, this has a nasty aura of about 600 frost damage every 2 seconds and a deadly slow to anyone in its aura. These are also enraged but may be CC'd in any fassion. Yes it is possible to kill these mobs but it takes a while and they will run around everywhere with their aura inviting death, to CC them is risky, takes up the raids time and is a large distraction and no-walk zone on the map. (This is just one death, 2 deaths is rediculous). In other words don't plan on dying after phase 1 if you want to finish the fight efficiently. (Note: Our raid has successfully survived this, if you mez the add and change locations it will desapawn on the same timer as after your raid dies.)

    The art of the hunter/kiter: During the entire phase 2 and 3 the hunter or whoever has agro of the bird will have to kite nearly half the fight yellow eye or not. How do you deal with this? When does the bird switch to me? If the bird has you selected as in you are highest on the agro list you will need to perform this gruesome duty. Relativley everytime the yellow eye changes you will need to kite the bird and call out when its off you and runs after the player with the yellow eye. In turn the player with yellow will call out before he loses his eye and you will be ready to take over.


    When the birds hits 147-150k health he will turn green and walk to the center of the room. At this point the screen will flash completley white as the LT dismounts the tank will have time to select him before the LT becomes active. Your tank should have stun immunity and be within a few feet of the LT to do whatever skills are needed to grab him and move him to final tanking location which should be pre-selected during the end (last puddle placement of phase 1). Several things will occur the second the LT becomes active. 1) The tank will grab agro and move to location. 2) The person who has the yellow eye will begin to kite the bird 3) The person with the purple eye will move to a safe location.


    Phase 3: (Control):

    I know all of the above is alot to swallow, all the rules of how to deal with the bird and all of the eyes but that is only the beggining.

    The yellow eye.
    Yellow is the path the player with yellow eye will take
    Purple line is the path the player with purple eye will take
    Red is the path the kiter will take when a yellow eye ends
    Purple is a fear cloud


    As shown above the player with the yellow eye will take the exact opposite direction as the purple eye. The reason I chose this path is because obviously they will be nowhere near the purple eye and they need a large circle to get rid of their eye. As illustrated they will go around a large circle avoiding puddles and at about 90% of their path the yellow eye will be gone and the bird will switch to the bird kiter for a limited time. During this short time the kiter will do a shorter circle and bring the bird in line for the next yellow eye.


    Introduction to corruptions: These must be managed very, very carefuly. The second phase 2 begins the LT will start off with the blue corruption.

    Corruptions:


    Blue: Ranged damage, attack duration, incoming healing

    Red: Movement speed, melee damage, fear

    Yellow: Power cost, induction speed, tactical damage


    Understanding the corruptions: Obviously you need to cycle through these as each one can be deadly if it goes to 100%. Each corruption will tier up by 10% every few seconds and after it is removed will linger for 15 seconds before it completley disappears. It is imperative that you never leave the corruption on red for more then a couple seconds of the run speed will be -20% and the bird will catch its target and kill them, -10% it is still possible to outrun the bird. Normal corruptions of yellow and blue shouldnt go higher then 60% as it will suck all your power or all your health. When you are in the power cost try to use few few skills unless you are a hunter in which case use all your skills. When you are in the blue high hunters draw power and do less DPS, people like guard do more skills. The idea of the corruption rotation is to skip the most deadly the red, so we go from blue to yellow to blue to yellow never staying on red for more then literally a couple seonds (pretty much just do a 2 hit corruption switch).

    Note: You cant switch through these repetitivley as they linger for 15 seconds which is why communication in removal is very importand, if 1 extra captain uses his blade of el by accident you could whipe the raid, its really quite serious, dont use stuff like sting or merciful shot shot that you might use in a normal skill rotation, move them to a a new place on your bar so you have to think to apply them.


    The loremaster power pump and rules: When you are in the blue corruption/red go ahead and pump power between your 2 loremasters, make sure you have tac healing upgraded on your book and 10% legacy share the power on staff. NEVER pump in yellow or you will lose power. We have done this fight without 2 LM's in a 10 man and we had full power when the LT was half health so it is a question if you really need 2 LM's and some are beggining to ask if you really need a LM at all.


    Power managment: There is 0 ICPR in this fight thus use pots everytime they are up and health pots, eat 10 minute food before the fight starts as well. Try to avoid using alot of skills in the yellow corruption.
    Last edited by YesMaam; Apr 28 2010 at 01:42 PM.

  2. #2

    Re: LT Guide

    The bird Kiter:

    This is the last thing to understand but one of the most vital roles of this fight. As the kiter of the bird (the person who has real agro of it), you will need to kite the bird avoiding puddles, the purple eye and putting the bird into a good position of the yellow eye. This role requires a lag free player, who can think about his angles so the bird won't catch him and so he can benefit the group by manipluating the birds location.

    Purple line is the path the player with purple eye will take
    Green is the path the bird will take
    White is the path the bird kiter will take
    Yellow is the path the player with the yellow eye will take




    A shown above the bird kiter will avoid the purple eye, be prepared the recieve the bird upon expiration of yellow and end his path so the bird is 1) in line with yellow eye and 2) away from the group. It is imperative that this kite or yellow eye kite ends a decent distant away from the raid. This gives the raid time to react and for the bird not to perform any amazing acts like stunning the whole raid and doing a tail swipe.

    I wish you all the best of luck out their, its a mad fight.




    This will take some time to edit and add the remaining screen shots. Forgive the paint but I believe even the most childish illustrations if done correctly are more effective than words alone.

    Vent communication:

    This is what should be said in vent.
    "X and/or Y change corruption."
    "Done" Or "resist, Z go."
    "New purple eye."
    "___ has purple eye."
    "New yellow eye."
    "___ has yellow eye."
    "___ is feared."
    "___ could use a heal, going through a few extra puddles."

    Talking about marks, oathis, power, heals, giving a story about how the bird is following you, whatever will screw up corruptions or something else that is vital to be communicated, don't be silly be professional, there really is no other way to down this fight.
    Last edited by YesMaam; Apr 28 2010 at 01:47 PM.

  3. #3
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    Re: LT Guide

    well described. gives people a very good idea of the level of execution that is required to win.
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  4. #4
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    Re: LT Guide

    Thanks for sharing the strat! Very nicely written, plus rep for you sir.

    My only complaint would be l2mspaint circle, nub
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  5. #5

    Re: LT Guide

    LoL, hopefully nobody else notices People should get the general idea.

  6. #6
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    Re: LT Guide

    I think my head just exploded....

    Good visuals though. thanks
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  7. #7
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    Re: LT Guide

    Send this routine to Dancing with the Stars and you might have a winner.

  8. #8

    Re: LT Guide

    Nicely done.
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  9. #9
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    Re: LT Guide

    Nice guide. Thanks for posting it.

    A question for you though. I do not see anything covering the tanking aspects of the fight. Are you just using a single tank to lock down the Lieutenant (after he dismounts), or are you using two tanks to trade off? I've not seen a guide since the original version of the Lieutenant fight cover this area, so was curious what groups are doing now.

  10. #10

    Re: LT Guide

    With the changes to the fight there is only 1 LT tank now and the most of the raid will be in melee range of the LT. Its quite a different fight.

  11. #11

    Re: LT Guide

    For some extra info before LT check out http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=324659

  12. #12
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    Re: LT Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by YesMaam View Post
    so it is a question if you really need 2 LM's and some are beggining to ask if you really need a LM at all.
    We always use 1 LM so you definitely do not need 2. I think 1 is good to have for debuffs, shadow-mitigation of the raven, occasional power to a healer if they're low, and SI for phase 1, but I have no doubt that the fight can be done without one.
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  13. #13

    Re: LT Guide

    Yep, that's the nuts and bolts of the fight as we perform it. Here's a few other suggestions/opinions on how we do things. A lot of these things have been said in other threads, but I thought I'd try to compile things a bit for the ease of newer raiders, in a bit of an addendum to the very well done original post.


    -Pick a spot! Obviously, the positioning of the tank will vary largely because of the random position of the puddles. We usually try to establish it when the bird is at like 175-200k, before the LT dismounts, but after all the puddles are dropped. If you're not in position when he does dismount, it adds a lot of confusion to the purple eye in particular, so have your leader pick a decently open spot with some running lanes for both eyes, and set it for the group.


    -Listen close! "I sense a seed of doubt in your heart" is the trigger for purple eyes. The LT will turn toward someone, say the line, and there will then be a purple eye that needs to get away from the group. It's useful to watch your bars during this fight, but Turbine doesn't help you out too much with purple eyes..as it's the same debuff as the fear and the puddle.


    -Be aware of other eyes! Multiple purple eyes can be called out randomly. The earlier purple eye should simply move further down the wall away from the group, and the new purple eye should move into the original designated locale.


    -Throwing axes/daggers are actually useful in this game! They allow the group to get a little ICPR in the fight, because ANY damage on the bird gives you a power over time buff for 150 power. The less power it costs the better, making 30m throwing weapons pretty ideal. Obviously any bowed classes can simply auto attack the birds direction every once in a while. Some groups are able to get enough power simply through that process, but we typically go with 2 LMs.


    -Auto-attacks are win! If you've ever parsed any dps, you'll quickly learn how valuable auto-attacks are, sometimes nearing 50% of your total damage. It's much the same in the LT fight, and when power is a precious commodity, I encourage all your raid -- healers, LMs, and all -- to partake. This may make distinguishing the eyes in the clutter difficult, but the extra dps will be quite helpful.


    - Whack the bird! In phase 1, melee don't be afraid to get in there and hit the bird. It's technically not too bad if melee dies in phase 1, but just have a LM keep SI on whoever is going in to melee. If you leave it up to the ranged dps, you're going to be stuck with a lot of puddles, and they simply add more randomness to an already random fight.


    - Remark! LT wipes marks a ton...so just save a little power on burg/cappy so you can keep em up. I think our raid (with one cappy typically) runs revealing mark for the extra heal help...


    - Don't Die! For new groups, the unfortunate truth is this...if anyone dies in phase 2 after the LT dismounts, you WILL WIPE. The adds spawns on top of the LT, and unless you have a good plan for the add, there's not much hope of recovery....leading to my next bullet point...


    -Have a plan for noobs including yourself that die! For somewhat more experienced groups looking for one last edge in the fight, set up a plan in case someone does die. If you lose more than one person, you're probably not gonna make it...but in the case of one death, it IS possible to recoup. Our group typically calls it out, and we run to the exact opposite spot of the room. A burg can mez the add and KEEP it mezzed, fears can help sometimes with positioning. If you keep the add away from the group, you can have a chance at recovery. He will go away eventually, just like in wipes, he lasts a certain amount of time, which is usually faster or at least less dangerous than trying to kill it. Above all though, once you get him locked down, you have to plan ahead when kiting to avoid his slow aura. If you kite the bird through his aura, you're assuredly gonna get caught.


    -Pets are friends! If you are a group of the 2 LM persuasion (or not), keep those pets alive! The auto-attacks are helpful, but they are also a fantastic purple eye sponge. They will get purple eyes from the LT, as well as fears, but they won't harm the group with them, even if they're right within the group. Just be careful in phase 1 that they don't stay in melee of the bird too long, and in p2 don't make them chase you while you have an eye. Raven defense is nice, but I like the bear just in case the heal corruption gets too high, he can jump in and save a death in a pinch.


    -Loot is fail! lol, just throwing that one in for fun...but it's largely the truth apart from finishing your sets off....
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  14. #14
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    Re: LT Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by YesMaam View Post
    With the changes to the fight there is only 1 LT tank now and the most of the raid will be in melee range of the LT. Its quite a different fight.
    And that tank is a hunter
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  15. #15

    Re: LT Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Tartare View Post
    And that tank is a hunter
    Lies! That would never happen
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  16. #16
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    Re: LT Guide

    Excellent guide.

    The only thing we do (maybe) a little a different is with the corruptions. If everything is under control, the tank (Guardian in our case) does 2/3's of the corruption removals (Blue->Red, Yellow->Blue) using Sting. This has the advantage of being predictable (usually). The other removers (LMs, RKs) are responsible for the Red->Yellow transition, which must be instantaneous. By using Sting (or Reversal) when you can, you have a lot of redundancy for dealing with resists, somebody kiting, feared, etc. when in the critical Red phase.

    Getting the right "rhythm" of corruption removal is really important, so you don't let Blue or Yellow get too high by waiting too long, or get back into a corruption too soon before it has expired (which will make it continue to stack higher instead of resetting).

    A number of things can go wrong: the Lt sometimes wipes Sting while it is ticking down, it can resist, and your tank or one of the other removers may have to kite. Someone has to be designated to call for burst (non-tank) removal when for whatever reason the normal rotation driven by the tank breaks down (for us, the tank usually handles this), and you need a clear order of responsibility so you do not over-remove, and the next person is ready to go when you get a resist.

    We have had success with using a Champion to kite the Fail-Beast; since 0 ICPR really gimps Champ DPS, we find it good to keep any Hunter(s) on the Lt. If you have a second champ, he can help by taunting the Lt off the tank if the tank gets a yellow eye and has to kite.

    We have not had a Burglar recently, but have managed to recover from people dying. LM tosses Bane Flare immediately, and the group shifts (we generally move one wall in the "Yellow Eye" direction, which should always be safe, and allows enough room for someone with a purple eyeball to avoid the aura). After that, Minstrels can mez with Song of the Dead and LMs can root/chain-root if for any reason the add wakes up. I would not recommend ever fearing the add. We have had runs fail because the add was feared through the (closed) gate at the entrance, causing the whole fight to reset. Note that LMs can drain power from these adds too (although it will break any CC).

  17. #17
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    Re: LT Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by LagunaD View Post
    the Lt sometimes wipes Sting while it is ticking down, it can resist

    Speaking as a tank, you have no idea how annoying it is when he wipes bleeds & the sting removal along with it. However, as long as Sting hits initially, I don't believe the corruption removal component can be resisted, which makes it much more predictable & easier to manage.
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  18. #18
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    Re: LT Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Aestis25 View Post
    However, as long as Sting hits initially, I don't believe the corruption removal component can be resisted, which makes it much more predictable & easier to manage.
    I have been told otherwise by people who have tested, but I admit I haven't played my Guardian enough to know first-hand.

  19. #19
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    Re: LT Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Aestis25 View Post
    . However, as long as Sting hits initially, I don't believe the corruption removal component can be resisted, which makes it much more predictable & easier to manage.
    I'll second this - as long as sting hits initially (and doesn't get wiped), it WILL cycle a corruption.
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  20. #20
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    Re: LT Guide

    The only times I've seen Sting hit, put on the Imminent Cleansing debuff, and fail to clear a corruption has been on the Gathburz Marauders when they were bugged prior to V3B1. Their corruptions didn't appear to be tiering down because there were multiple copies of the Tier-3 corruption on them due to being run off & reset by passersby. I believe this has since been corrected.

    Obviously the other case would be bosses who love to reset their debuffs.
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  21. #21

    Re: LT Guide

    Yeah, with a typical group setup, you should have plenty of corruption removals to go around, so it's really about confidence in the fight and in your class. If your guard is pretty new, you may be more apt to have your LMs/RKs/whatever handle the removals. I've called out corruptions on my LM and mini, the latter being sneakily nice in that you can remove again if you miss, or change it twice yourself if lots is going on. LMs/RKs have nice built in timers that help regulate your usages as well, ie on my LM, whenever my skill is back up, it's time to change again, and every other time (going from blue-> red -> yellow) you just call an associate to hit the second change. An experienced guardian is are able to give you a very good removal, though we have largely settled to champ tank our main raids. With the guard you need fewer backups, as they are able to largely able to manage things without too much risk, but it's all about your members and their ability to watch the details.

    Don't stick a guard on the job if they don't know how or just can't do it
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  22. #22
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    Re: LT Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by LagunaD View Post
    I have been told otherwise by people who have tested, but I admit I haven't played my Guardian enough to know first-hand.
    This is news to me. In all my time tanking every instance & raid since Moria's release (the majority of which, Guard was my main), I've never, ever, ever seen Sting proc Imminent Cleansing but not remove/cycle the corruption when it ticks down. Sting itself can miss or be blocked/parried/evaded, and maybe the Imminent Cleansing component of Sting can be resisted on the front end (though I can't necessarily remember this happening off-hand, either). And any boss/mob who wipes bleeds/debuffs will wipe the Imminent Cleansing debuff along with them, thus preventing the corruption removal (the LT, of course, being among this group). But I've never once seen a resist. Would be very curious to know if I'm wrong on this one.
    Last edited by Aestis25; May 12 2010 at 05:14 PM.
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  23. #23

    Re: LT Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by LagunaD View Post
    Excellent guide.

    The only thing we do (maybe) a little a different is with the corruptions. If everything is under control, the tank (Guardian in our case) does 2/3's of the corruption removals (Blue->Red, Yellow->Blue) using Sting. This has the advantage of being predictable (usually). The other removers (LMs, RKs) are responsible for the Red->Yellow transition, which must be instantaneous. By using Sting (or Reversal) when you can, you have a lot of redundancy for dealing with resists, somebody kiting, feared, etc. when in the critical Red phase.

    Getting the right "rhythm" of corruption removal is really important, so you don't let Blue or Yellow get too high by waiting too long, or get back into a corruption too soon before it has expired (which will make it continue to stack higher instead of resetting).

    A number of things can go wrong: the Lt sometimes wipes Sting while it is ticking down, it can resist, and your tank or one of the other removers may have to kite. Someone has to be designated to call for burst (non-tank) removal when for whatever reason the normal rotation driven by the tank breaks down (for us, the tank usually handles this), and you need a clear order of responsibility so you do not over-remove, and the next person is ready to go when you get a resist.

    We have had success with using a Champion to kite the Fail-Beast; since 0 ICPR really gimps Champ DPS, we find it good to keep any Hunter(s) on the Lt. If you have a second champ, he can help by taunting the Lt off the tank if the tank gets a yellow eye and has to kite.

    We have not had a Burglar recently, but have managed to recover from people dying. LM tosses Bane Flare immediately, and the group shifts (we generally move one wall in the "Yellow Eye" direction, which should always be safe, and allows enough room for someone with a purple eyeball to avoid the aura). After that, Minstrels can mez with Song of the Dead and LMs can root/chain-root if for any reason the add wakes up. I would not recommend ever fearing the add. We have had runs fail because the add was feared through the (closed) gate at the entrance, causing the whole fight to reset. Note that LMs can drain power from these adds too (although it will break any CC).
    Yes I've done that on my guard, though unless like skel said the guard is experienced its just one more thing to stress about, easy to insta remove by one of your many classes.

    I don't know why the champ would challange off the guard? When guard gets yellow eye he kites, the LT doesnt hit him, nor does the bird. If needed he can hit sprint and when he gets back to the group corruptions will be handled accordingly.

    Taking a burg makes the adds easy, and they are useful on the trash up as well as the fight. (Though the idea is to get no adds). Champ tanking the bird has worked for us as well but it seems a great pain unless hunters try to quick shot in endurance, but once again if you can get it to work it will raise DPS on the LT making the fight quicker.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    292

    Re: LT Guide

    Just curious do you have more of a definitive number on how much time between tier ups on corruptions, not looking for an exact amount of 5.9687sec, just looking for a guestimate.

    We're going after the Lt again this weekend, took a few weeks break from him, hoping this guide will help us.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    1,287

    Re: LT Guide

    Quote Originally Posted by Eavis View Post
    Just curious do you have more of a definitive number on how much time between tier ups on corruptions, not looking for an exact amount of 5.9687sec, just looking for a guestimate.

    We're going after the Lt again this weekend, took a few weeks break from him, hoping this guide will help us.
    7 Seconds.
    Eomin 75 Hunter
    Leader of Preying Mantis
    [Jeweled Bell] goes *Jingle Jangle*

 

 
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