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  1. #1
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    Suggestion: Small creep nerf

    Remove block from all creep classes except WLs as no others have shields.
    Drop Reavers health to about 8k-My guardian has 7.6k with 640+ vit with less dps than reavers and less with about 10% parry and 4% evade.
    Drop Wargs morale to about 6.5k after all they have great dps and good get away skills and their closest freep counterpart the burg can only reach about 6k without making big sacrifices to get there.

    I personally have no problem with the other classes as i dont have a freep counterpart to them any other suggestions/flames welcomed
    [center][charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/042080000000abd01/signature.png]Stubi[/charsig]
    [b]BA-[/b][color=green]Ventspy(r6)[/color][/center]

  2. #2
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    Re: Suggestion: Small creep nerf

    ./signed

    ..or give the perma-radiance back to the freeps.

  3. #3
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    Re: Suggestion: Small creep nerf

    Quote Originally Posted by Assassin12 View Post
    Remove block from all creep classes except WLs as no others have shields.
    Drop Reavers health to about 8k-My guardian has 7.6k with 640+ vit with less dps than reavers and less with about 10% parry and 4% evade.
    Drop Wargs morale to about 6.5k after all they have great dps and good get away skills and their closest freep counterpart the burg can only reach about 6k without making big sacrifices to get there.

    I personally have no problem with the other classes as i dont have a freep counterpart to them any other suggestions/flames welcomed
    The Block Evade Parry thing is actually benefitial to Freeps. If it was all turned to Evade (Spider and Warg) Creeps would loose some skilltriggers on Block and Parry, while we get an even better evade in return.

    Dont talk about Guardians DPS! Its sick for being tank class!

    You dont think Creeps makes sacrifices between their health and damage too? I agree that Wargs could be tuned down somewhat tho, especially the CJ percentages, but then again, Burgs aint the least better in that area. I usually loose between 3-5k health in most Burglars opening attack. Thats actually more than wargs usually manage to do in the CJ on my light wearing Mini.

    If you take a good look at the overall Freeps extreme DPS compared to Creeps, you start to understand why Creeps have the health and Mitigations they have or maybe you wont be happy until we start to have onehit kills regularly again?

    Thumbs up for ideas, thumbs down for the actual ideas

    /Silkdawn
    [url=http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=301899]Silkdawn's movie collection[/url]

  4. #4

    Re: Suggestion: Small creep nerf

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfectlotus View Post
    The Block Evade Parry thing is actually benefitial to Freeps. If it was all turned to Evade (Spider and Warg) Creeps would loose some skilltriggers on Block and Parry, while we get an even better evade in return.

    Dont talk about Guardians DPS! Its sick for being tank class!

    You dont think Creeps makes sacrifices between their health and damage too? I agree that Wargs could be tuned down somewhat tho, especially the CJ percentages, but then again, Burgs aint the least better in that area. I usually loose between 3-5k health in most Burglars opening attack. Thats actually more than wargs usually manage to do in the CJ on my light wearing Mini.

    If you take a good look at the overall Freeps extreme DPS compared to Creeps, you start to understand why Creeps have the health and Mitigations they have or maybe you wont be happy until we start to have onehit kills regularly again?

    Thumbs up for ideas, thumbs down for the actual ideas

    /Silkdawn
    Good thing stuff is not balanced for 1 versus 1 though, heh?
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  5. #5
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    Re: Suggestion: Small creep nerf

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestialdemons View Post
    Good thing stuff is not balanced for 1 versus 1 though, heh?
    Its not a singleplayer game, its a MMO and trust me even if Spiders are considered 1vs1 gods out there I still get my @ss handed to me by certain Freep classes, while others I take with ease. Its more rock, paper, scissor then unbalance in 1vs1s imo.

    EDIT on my previous post: I had some skills in mind such as the Agile Rejoinder for example for Hunters, which triggers on Parry. However in my haste I forgot its actually triggering on the Hunters parry and not the opposite. There might be other classes with such triggers tho, but evade still beats parry and block, so I would still welcome such a shuffle to Evade as a Spider at least.

    /Silkdawn
    [url=http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=301899]Silkdawn's movie collection[/url]

  6. #6
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    Re: Suggestion: Small creep nerf

    Quote Originally Posted by Perfectlotus View Post
    Its not a singleplayer game, its a MMO and trust me even if Spiders are considered 1vs1 gods out there I still get my @ss handed to me by certain Freep classes, while others I take with ease. Its more rock, paper, scissor then unbalance in 1vs1s imo.

    EDIT on my previous post: I had some skills in mind such as the Agile Rejoinder for example for Hunters, which triggers on Parry. However in my haste I forgot its actually triggering on the Hunters parry and not the opposite. There might be other classes with such triggers tho, but evade still beats parry and block, so I would still welcome such a shuffle to Evade as a Spider at least.

    /Silkdawn
    I could be wrong, but I don't think that Stubi is advocating removing block and adding the same number back to parry and/or evade - I think he's advocating removing block entirely with no recompense.

    And it's not just a creep issue. I know this is the Monster Play forum, but I've always found it silly when PvE mobs that don't have a shield block my attacks. Freeps actually have to use a shield to get any blocks, why not apply that code across the board?

  7. #7
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    Re: Suggestion: Small creep nerf

    Quote Originally Posted by Lestache View Post
    I could be wrong, but I don't think that Stubi is advocating removing block and adding the same number back to parry and/or evade - I think he's advocating removing block entirely with no recompense.

    And it's not just a creep issue. I know this is the Monster Play forum, but I've always found it silly when PvE mobs that don't have a shield block my attacks. Freeps actually have to use a shield to get any blocks, why not apply that code across the board?
    You are correct. How is it that i as a guardian when in dps mode have about 10% parry and less than 5% evade yet my r5 reaver has 9.9% parry 5.7% block and 7.3% evade.
    I also have pretty decent gear(check my.lotro page) and 640ish vit unbuffed and i have 7.6k morale. My r5 reaver has health for power rank 1 and has 6.7k morale.
    [center][charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/042080000000abd01/signature.png]Stubi[/charsig]
    [b]BA-[/b][color=green]Ventspy(r6)[/color][/center]

  8. #8
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    Re: Suggestion: Small creep nerf

    Quote Originally Posted by Assassin12 View Post
    You are correct. How is it that i as a guardian when in dps mode have about 10% parry and less than 5% evade yet my r5 reaver has 9.9% parry 5.7% block and 7.3% evade.
    I also have pretty decent gear(check my.lotro page) and 640ish vit unbuffed and i have 7.6k morale. My r5 reaver has health for power rank 1 and has 6.7k morale.
    Freeps =/= Creeps.


    Our morale/mits are higher for the same reason our max damage attacks are lower, we are built to be your counterparts not your statistical matches. If we had freep health pools and did freep damage across the board, pvp would have a much higher and blatantly over the top pacing. So we're a bit tougher, but in general hit for less.

    As for block, this is because we were designed in the beginning using pve templates. Block makes no sense on a reaver... but then parry doesn't make sense on a warg either. Are you suggesting that wargs should only be able to evade? Because that's the natural extension of this argument.

    At some point, you have to choose realism or game mechanics. You can make, and perhaps should make, an argument that certain creep classes may have higher avoidances than they should. And perhaps from an aesthetic point of view there's a reason to think about converting block creeps have into a mix of evade/parry. The thing to keep in mind is that the only difference between a block and a parry is that one stops an arrow, while the other does not. So while only some of the freep classes can block, both sides are realistically only facing one class where this matters.

    TLDR version: Are creep avoidances too high? Maybe! (reavers IMO are a bit too much cannon and not enough glass) Is it a huge deal that creeps can block without shields? Not really.

    Just get the avoidance percentage in the right place, and it's a non-factor.


    Even my Signature is trolling!

  9. #9

    Re: Suggestion: Small creep nerf

    Quote Originally Posted by Assassin12 View Post
    You are correct. How is it that i as a guardian when in dps mode have about 10% parry and less than 5% evade yet my r5 reaver has 9.9% parry 5.7% block and 7.3% evade.
    I also have pretty decent gear(check my.lotro page) and 640ish vit unbuffed and i have 7.6k morale. My r5 reaver has health for power rank 1 and has 6.7k morale.
    Freep/Creep are not meant to be mirrors of each other....sure the base stats on your reaver may be a bit higher then your guard in OP stance...but your Guard has pledge, ward, heart, sprint, catch a breath, and has a chance to stun or conj an opponent etc. People seem to always look at this skill/stat versus this isolated skill stat (ie web the earth vs tar) but you need to look at the whole package imo.
    GRUSM - REAVER, DUSKPAW - WARG, STIXM - WEAVER, GRUZGASH - BA

  10. #10
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    Re: Suggestion: Small creep nerf

    i would not have any problem with turbine exchanging a creeps block rating for parry, but they would need to reduce the number added to parry (maybe by half). i would have a problem if they exchanged a creeps block rating for evade, however.
    [SIZE="2"][COLOR="Yellow"]I guarantee your level 65 r0 greenie BA will contribute more to your Creep raid than my level 2 Minstrel will contribute to my Freep raid. After all, both took about 5 seconds to create.[/COLOR][/size]
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  11. #11
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    Re: Suggestion: Small creep nerf

    Quote Originally Posted by Assassin12 View Post
    You are correct. How is it that i as a guardian when in dps mode have about 10% parry and less than 5% evade yet my r5 reaver has 9.9% parry 5.7% block and 7.3% evade.
    I also have pretty decent gear(check my.lotro page) and 640ish vit unbuffed and i have 7.6k morale. My r5 reaver has health for power rank 1 and has 6.7k morale.
    I can not B/P/E if i want to do any kind of DPS. Oh and if I want to do even more DPS I lose 60 morale a second and have -90% incoming healing. And I have 6.1k morale.
    Edelbrock

  12. #12
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    Re: Suggestion: Small creep nerf

    Quote Originally Posted by Orlandu View Post
    I can not B/P/E if i want to do any kind of DPS. Oh and if I want to do even more DPS I lose 60 morale a second and have -90% incoming healing. And I have 6.1k morale.
    Yes but Turbine hates you.

  13. #13
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    Re: Suggestion: Small creep nerf

    Quote Originally Posted by Assassin12 View Post
    Remove block from all creep classes except WLs as no others have shields.
    Drop Reavers health to about 8k-My guardian has 7.6k with 640+ vit with less dps than reavers and less with about 10% parry and 4% evade.
    Drop Wargs morale to about 6.5k after all they have great dps and good get away skills and their closest freep counterpart the burg can only reach about 6k without making big sacrifices to get there.

    I personally have no problem with the other classes as i dont have a freep counterpart to them any other suggestions/flames welcomed
    sorry stubi, but guards should not be complainging about the current moors. I assume this is from a 1v1 standpoint. Champs and hunters have it alot worse...especially hunters.

  14. #14
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    Re: Suggestion: Small creep nerf

    Quote Originally Posted by Assassin12 View Post
    Remove block from all creep classes except WLs as no others have shields.
    Drop Reavers health to about 8k-My guardian has 7.6k with 640+ vit with less dps than reavers and less with about 10% parry and 4% evade.
    Drop Wargs morale to about 6.5k after all they have great dps and good get away skills and their closest freep counterpart the burg can only reach about 6k without making big sacrifices to get there.

    I personally have no problem with the other classes as i dont have a freep counterpart to them any other suggestions/flames welcomed
    My reaver has 8,493 morale and 1,480 power. My warg has 6,789 morale and 1,754 power. Your numbers are not making sense if you want my morale down to 7k, the way I trait (and morale spec to 8k). Maybe the majority of people trait morale, but I don't and I don't want my morale penalized so badly that I'm forced to trait morale just because other people want to trait it or an unneeded nerf came. Increase dps contribution for traiting dps, but decrease it even more for traiting morale. If I trait all dps, I want to see some huge numbers because I'm sacrificing some morale. If I trait all morale, I want to see small numbers because I'm trading off dps for morale. That's all that needs to be fixed, besides making all dots curable and fixing warg cjs.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/012030100000db067/signature.png]Krillinun[/charsig]
    Crusada Reaver R10*Hawkfood LM R10*Grandhustla Blackarrow R8*Belarnun Weaver R7*

  15. #15
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    Re: Suggestion: Small creep nerf

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisCML View Post
    Freep/Creep are not meant to be mirrors of each other....sure the base stats on your reaver may be a bit higher then your guard in OP stance...but your Guard has pledge, ward, heart, sprint, catch a breath, and has a chance to stun or conj an opponent etc. People seem to always look at this skill/stat versus this isolated skill stat (ie web the earth vs tar) but you need to look at the whole package imo.
    Although a few creep classes are over the top in some areas, I agree with this post. It's annoying when people compare creeps to freeps without realizing that there is no way to do it. Creeps and freeps are completely different. Even if say, LMs and weavers had the same mits, morale, dps, etc, they would not have the same skillsets. But giving them the same skillsets would just give us boring pvp, and people would start complaining about that. Comparing two different classes never works and it never will, especially if you're comparing a freep class to a creep class.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/012030100000db067/signature.png]Krillinun[/charsig]
    Crusada Reaver R10*Hawkfood LM R10*Grandhustla Blackarrow R8*Belarnun Weaver R7*

  16. #16
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    Re: Suggestion: Small creep nerf

    LOL at the same old weaver names that jump in to cry out against anything that would take away their easymode. Some things will never change.

  17. #17
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    Re: Suggestion: Small creep nerf

    Creeps *do* need a nerf. There is no doubt about it. Reavers are insanely difficult to kill across the board. Over the top, indeed. I'll not go into the call out of each creep class and how overall, creeps are bit over.

    Nonetheless, it is important to note that the DPS hit a creep receives when they go to a full morale build is far smaller than it should be considering the survability gained by that build. There is a reason so many creeps go full morale, and it is because the DPS hardly suffers overall, and they are still significantly effective with bloated morale.
    [color=yellow] [b] "Dear Devs, Please nerf Rock. Paper is okay. Sincerely, Scissors." [/b] [/color]

    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a000000065efe/01008/signature.png]Mistake[/charsig]

  18. #18

    Re: Suggestion: Small creep nerf

    Quote Originally Posted by Zzyn View Post
    Nonetheless, it is important to note that the DPS hit a creep receives when they go to a full morale build is far smaller than it should be considering the survability gained by that build. There is a reason so many creeps go full morale, and it is because the DPS hardly suffers overall, and they are still significantly effective with bloated morale.
    Agreed; however, would it really be better if they reciprocally gained a great deal of DPS by going damage build? So much 'moors frustration is due to the already excessively-fast pace of combat.
    [font=Palatino Linotype][color=#66CCFF]Graf[/color][color=#FFD52A] | [/color][color=#FF3300]Musta[/color][/font]

  19. #19
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    Re: Suggestion: Small creep nerf

    Reavers: too much cannon and not enough glass, pretty much sums up my opinion about reavers

    Defilers: too much healing for how non-squishy they are

    Wargs: http://forums.lotro.com/showpost.php...40&postcount=1

    Blackarrows: dot dot dot ... dot dot dot

    Spiders: MOM book 8 made you easy mode, you have too much dps
    Spam deleted by Administrators

  20. #20
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    Re: Suggestion: Small creep nerf

    Quote Originally Posted by Assassin12 View Post
    Drop Reavers health to about 8k-My guardian has 7.6k with 640+ vit with less dps than reavers and less with about 10% parry and 4% evade.
    Your block is probably 20%+ and your mits are better than mine. I die plenty, thanks.

    Leave us poor Reavers alone!
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  21. #21
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    Re: Suggestion: Small creep nerf

    TK just needs it's initial removed, spamming a DoT skill for the initial is the heights of stupidity.
    There may come a time for valor without renown, for those without swords may surely still die upon them.


  22. #22

    Re: Suggestion: Small creep nerf

    People have got to stop complaining and asking for nerfs. We need to stop the nerfs. What needs to happen is freeps need a small buff. How about we start with introducing first age weapons and then go from there? The only thing that really needs to be changed in the moors is the way CJ's work.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/06205000000002f5c/signature.png]Bambam[/charsig]

  23. #23
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    Re: Suggestion: Small creep nerf

    Quote Originally Posted by FajaSailors View Post
    LOL at the same old weaver names that jump in to cry out against anything that would take away their easymode. Some things will never change.
    LOL at the same old Freep names that jump in to cry out to nerf creeps so they can have total easymode back. Some things never change.

    pretty easy to turn that around. Go back to farming greenies for your easymode and dont QQ when you get zerged for doing it. (anyone camping Grams/GV deserves to get zerged)

  24. #24
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    Re: Suggestion: Small creep nerf

    Quote Originally Posted by oopsies View Post

    Blackarrows: dot dot dot ... dot dot dot
    and freeps should be: Cure cure cure...cure cure cure. An LM traiting cure all ills can pretty much make several BA's near useless, near because they still have hinder. It's not like LMs also don't have a skill that lasts 30s on a 30s cd that's aoe and halves our damage or anything. Oh wait...

    Yes, I know I can cure the wind-lore, however I'm spending enough money on morale pots, stun pots, root pots, power pots, and trackers. Like I need to farm for another 10minutes for pots that will last me less than a day.

    Edit: Heck, I know it's just my bad luck, but with a freep having a pot, I can to apply fire dot an average of 3times before it stays for more than 3seconds (one misses, is blocked, evaded, or resisted, then another potted) and that's if they don't have the RK prevention buff or an LM wound curing. Yeah, ba's have it so nice, especially with our common damage.
    Last edited by Aurthur; Apr 27 2010 at 07:36 PM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320201000000a8f6/signature.png]Blackstar[/charsig]

  25. #25
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    Re: Suggestion: Small creep nerf

    Quote Originally Posted by Aurthur View Post
    and freeps should be: Cure cure cure...cure cure cure. An LM traiting cure all ills can pretty much make several BA's near useless, near because they still have hinder.
    In their group...

    Stupidest change ever. Soon they'll make healing grp only...

    Like I need to farm for another 10minutes for pots that will last me less than a day.
    I'll remember this when a Freep makes note of the endless grind for Hope pots, Scrolls, Pots, Wound/Poison/Fear/Disease Pots, etc. etc. etc.

 

 
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