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  1. #1
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    Jun 2007
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    a little question about Strength from Within

    Hi, I wanted to know if the trait "Strength from Within" (the muster courage self heal) is worth slotting. I noticed that it says in the description that I can't use heralds with this and the stickied guides say that heralds are best for leveling. I don't mind using a standard, but they provide less buffs for groups at my level. Does the (more) frequent self heal balance out the herald's ability to tank one mob/buff the group?

  2. #2
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    Jun 2008
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    Re: a little question about Strength from Within

    Firstly, what level are you at?

    The effectiveness of the banner vs the herald isn't as much as it once was, having said that nearly all end game captains use a banner when grouping. Don't forget the passives that just having the banner equiped gives you either. The herald is much more useful for soloing, especially with the archer (even though this doesn't give buffs).

    Generally for situations where I am off tanking or expecting to take some damage I will slot Strength from Within. It isn't really a crucial trait to slot however, and really depends on your playstyle. Have a play and see what you think.

    Hope it helps a little
    [URL="http://catalyst.guildlaunch.com"][/URL][SIZE=1] [/SIZE][SIZE=1]Votan | Xeyila | Grisburnakh
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  3. #3
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    Jun 2007
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    209

    Re: a little question about Strength from Within

    Thanks. I was confused because many captains talked like it was a must trait.

    I'm lvl 55, so the lvl 50 critted standard gives less of a group buff for me than the herald. I mostly play in small groups, but sometimes I go solo. I noticed that when I go solo (because I don't have the shield brother skills), I often have to wait for the autoattack even if I'm spamming defensive strike every other skill because I don't have the last slot open for renewed voice (it opens up at lvl 57).

    I ran with the trait for about 15 minutes, and I can't tell if it's better than the herald at my level. I haven't taken four even to yellow mobs at a time yet because I'm waiting to get more used to this playstyle before I try more difficult things.

    My concern is, the closer I get to 60, the worse the standard will become and again after lvl 63. Does anyone trait this at 65? Should I keep practicing with the herald for later use?

  4. #4
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    Jun 2008
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    Re: a little question about Strength from Within

    Quote Originally Posted by Harc View Post
    Thanks. I was confused because many captains talked like it was a must trait.

    I'm lvl 55, so the lvl 50 critted standard gives less of a group buff for me than the herald. I mostly play in small groups, but sometimes I go solo. I noticed that when I go solo (because I don't have the shield brother skills), I often have to wait for the autoattack even if I'm spamming defensive strike every other skill because I don't have the last slot open for renewed voice (it opens up at lvl 57).

    I ran with the trait for about 15 minutes, and I can't tell if it's better than the herald at my level. I haven't taken four even to yellow mobs at a time yet because I'm waiting to get more used to this playstyle before I try more difficult things.

    My concern is, the closer I get to 60, the worse the standard will become and again after lvl 63. Does anyone trait this at 65? Should I keep practicing with the herald for later use?
    Pretty much no-one uses the herald during instance runs at later levels. Alot of the problems come from pathing and hte fact you can't resummon a herald in combat so when they die (and they will in boss fights) you lose the buff, whereas banners can be replanted quickly.

    Also I don't believe the buff is that different between the herald and the banners, are you sure you have the top teir critted banner? (lvl 60 banner is identical to the lvl 50 iirc).
    [URL="http://catalyst.guildlaunch.com"][/URL][SIZE=1] [/SIZE][SIZE=1]Votan | Xeyila | Grisburnakh
    Retired - Thanks for the fun and the fights[/SIZE]

  5. #5
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    Feb 2008
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    Re: a little question about Strength from Within

    Banner of hope gives +20% max morale buff that the herald of hope does not. If the question is banner of hope with SfW vs herald of hope, to me it's a clear choice to go with the banner. If you're talking about victory/war with SfW vs Lend Will, it isn't as clear to me...except that I'm not a fan of heralds at all.
    Last edited by Lurkerinthemist; Apr 21 2010 at 12:32 AM.
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  6. #6
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    Apr 2008
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    Re: a little question about Strength from Within

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocatequil View Post
    Pretty much no-one uses the herald during instance runs at later levels. Alot of the problems come from pathing and hte fact you can't resummon a herald in combat so when they die (and they will in boss fights) you lose the buff, whereas banners can be replanted quickly.

    Also I don't believe the buff is that different between the herald and the banners, are you sure you have the top teir critted banner? (lvl 60 banner is identical to the lvl 50 iirc).
    Banner is indicated level (except war, where 60=50 due to "feature"). Herald is two levels below player level. So at level cap you can have a level 63 herald (bigger buff) or level 60 banner. But most (including me) go with a banner when grouping, due to pathing issues, herald pulling unwanted aggro issues, and herald dying against bosses/AOE if not watched.

    Muster courage self heal is great. And if you get the legacy on an LI for it, you can do it quite often, even without it is a nice blip of morale.
    Last edited by DelgonTheWise; Apr 21 2010 at 08:42 AM.

  7. #7

    Re: a little question about Strength from Within

    If you have finished all the deeds for using shieldbrother skills, I'd go ahead and use a banner and muster courage. Using the banner solo will train your muscles to plant it at the start of every fight. The self heal just adds to a captains ability to solo, and is handy if you're somewhere that everyone is getting fears for you to remove while you are taking moderate to high damage.

  8. #8
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    Apr 2007
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    1,161

    Re: a little question about Strength from Within

    Once I traited it I never took it off. I didn't even complete the "summon archer" deed because I don't care enough since the heal is so nice.
    Really though, when you are spamming words of courage this heal makes up for the moral loss and then some. With the legacy on an LI it gets even better.
    \\ Galidin \\ Unpossible \\ Rawlor \\
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  9. #9
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    Dec 2007
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    Re: a little question about Strength from Within

    I find it can be useful for surviving a little longer in certain situations. Banners are ideal for captains at the moment, unless you are traited for the oathbreaker heralds, they aren't really worth it imo.

    In pvp i find its ideal for an extra HoT, tied in with the emblem legacy it can prove to be very helpful.

    When healing i may use it to refill my health a little, whether it is down some, or to top it off. In a sense it can take off the morale requirement for words of courage for a short time.

    Sometimes i use it, sometimes i don't, i like throwing out my heralds every once in awhile, but i generally keep it traited.

    Mainly it all comes down to, what you are going to do or aiming to do, being long-term or short term, and opinion.
    Last edited by Untg99; Apr 21 2010 at 09:54 AM.

  10. #10
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    Jul 2008
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    Re: a little question about Strength from Within

    Soloing with Herald is good for early to mid level, once you reach higher levels the difference is so minimal that you might as well get the Banner and not look back for most content and soloing.

    This is especially true when you obtain legendaries.

    The only time I un slot this trait is if i go full LoM and mess around in skirmishes. Other then that the heal and the HoT it gives is very nice. Find your self an emblem with the CD legacy and you can keep a HoT on you for 12 out of the 20 seconds of the CD.

    One word of warning, when you are in a group or raiding use this as an emergency or when you know 100% there will be no fears around. You do not want to be caught with your pants down when everyone gets hit be a large Fear and MC is on CD.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000015b084/01008/signature.png]Dropofhoney[/charsig]

  11. #11

    Re: a little question about Strength from Within

    its very useful solo, and if youre gonna be tanking.

  12. Re: a little question about Strength from Within

    The returns from strength from within increase as you develop your legendaries and increase healing power, unlike the heralds. For grouping and tough content, I *always, always, always* use a banner and strength from within. For easy content (and once you are buffed out, pretty much all solo content will be easy), I prefer to go archer herald, since I already have enough survival tools and I prefer being able to burn through mobs a little faster.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a00000033326e/01008/signature.png]doronor[/charsig]

  13. #13

    Re: a little question about Strength from Within

    In groups I use the Strength from Within trait, but not because of the self heal...it's a bonus. I use Muster Courage for fear removal. If I get a heal out of something I am going to use anyway that's great, but I'm not going to use Muster Courage as if it were an extra potion and then have it on cool down when I need it for removing fear.

    I like my herald for some content, so I switch the trait often. It's a toss up given your play style. Some people use heralds with skill, and having a herald off tank something so it's not hitting on you *and* give you a heal can often be more useful than the heal you get from Strength from Within plus the banner buffs.

    I really see them as sort of a wash--let the content help you decide.
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  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    Re: a little question about Strength from Within

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocatequil View Post
    ...
    Also I don't believe the buff is that different between the herald and the banners, are you sure you have the top teir critted banner? (lvl 60 banner is identical to the lvl 50 iirc).
    Not quite correct. Yes, the personal buffs on the level 50 banners is identical to the buff on the level 60's. However, the aura buff on the Banners of Hope and Victory are improved on the level 60 banners. The Banner of War is an exception. Its aura buff has not scaled.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/03202000000003071/01008/signature.png]Kalbarad[/charsig]

  15. #15

    Re: a little question about Strength from Within

    Quote Originally Posted by Pillager101 View Post

    One word of warning, when you are in a group or raiding use this as an emergency or when you know 100% there will be no fears around. You do not want to be caught with your pants down when everyone gets hit be a large Fear and MC is on CD.
    This is excellent advice. I've taken to unslotting this in Raids because of this. When soloing I got in the habit of robotically hitting MC whenever I needed my morale topped off. In DN/BG thats a Bad Thing to do.
    "Argle-bargle morble whoosh?"

    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a000000099a14/01003/signature.png]Yvain[/charsig]

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    457

    Re: a little question about Strength from Within

    Quote Originally Posted by YvainBlakhart View Post
    This is excellent advice. I've taken to unslotting this in Raids because of this. When soloing I got in the habit of robotically hitting MC whenever I needed my morale topped off. In DN/BG thats a Bad Thing to do.
    This is very true, but this now comes down to play style and your relationship with the healers.
    I tend to keep it slotted and when i know i won't have to worry about fears use it in time to top my self off and keep my self off the healers radar. I figure it will make it a bit easier for them to look at one less green bar and focus on other areas.

    The great thing about captains is our self reliance and now with this heal and our group heals we can keep our selfs well into the green so the healers don't have to bother with us as well as helping the healers heal.

    Again this is down to personal preference and i can see the value of unsloting this to make sure that you do not come to a time when you need it and its on CD
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000015b084/01008/signature.png]Dropofhoney[/charsig]

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    300

    Re: a little question about Strength from Within

    The healing amout seems to scale with character level. It is also greatly affected by the legacy that increases incoming healing.

    Morale potions have a cool down of 2 minutes. My Muster Courage heals for a similar amount (over time) and I can use it every 30 seconds. That makes it a winner.
    [COLOR=darkorchid]Marhkam, Captain 65[/COLOR], Supreme Metalsmith, Arkenstone

  18. #18
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    Dec 2007
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    Re: a little question about Strength from Within

    As far as SfW goes.... I slot it when I'm running HoH for grouping....

    When skirmishing or soloing, I'm LtC, and that trait is not slotted because I like microing my herald to OT, or just having my herald out on skirmishes. I really don't like the frequency i need to plant a banner when I'm soloing or skirmishing, in instances it's not quite so bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise View Post
    But most (including me) go with a banner when grouping, due to pathing issues, herald pulling unwanted aggro issues....
    Set herald to passive with assist turned on, and be mindful that the herald will run out when you attack.... agro issues dealt with.

    For pathing... be mindful that you either need to mount up, or dismiss/resummon the herald if there's any question that you might loose them, such as when you jump off of a cliff, etc. If you're too lazy to do that... then it's your own fault.... LMs have the exact same pet AI that we do... and most ACTUALLY have learned how to use them correctly.

    If you can learn how to control the herald with it set to passive with assist turned off, that's solves a large part of the mentioned issues.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

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  19. #19
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    Jan 2007
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    Re: a little question about Strength from Within

    Quote Originally Posted by Irnaetha View Post
    The healing amout seems to scale with character level. It is also greatly affected by the legacy that increases incoming healing.

    Morale potions have a cool down of 2 minutes. My Muster Courage heals for a similar amount (over time) and I can use it every 30 seconds. That makes it a winner.
    SfW healing also scales with the +Vocal Healing legacy and any tactical healing improvements.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/03202000000003071/01008/signature.png]Kalbarad[/charsig]

 

 

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