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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    879

    Way to help fix the CJ issues

    Conjunction are in the game for 1 reason, and that is to perform Fellowship and Warband Maneuvers. They should not be allowed to be used as unstoppable CC effect so you can easy kill people. Fellowship and Warband Maneuver skills should require you to be in a fellowship-raid in order to use the skill. When you use the skill you and every person in your group can't use any skills while the Conjunction is in effect. All you can do is click on 1 of the 4 colors and then wait till the Conjunction is over to be able to attack again. Changing them to this would make them work as they are supposed to be used, and would greatly help with the current issues with Conjunctions.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    2,564

    Re: Way to help fix the CJ issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Patrickwg View Post
    Conjunction are in the game for 1 reason, and that is to perform Fellowship and Warband Maneuvers. They should not be allowed to be used as unstoppable CC effect so you can easy kill people. Fellowship and Warband Maneuver skills should require you to be in a fellowship-raid in order to use the skill. When you use the skill you and every person in your group can't use any skills while the Conjunction is in effect. All you can do is click on 1 of the 4 colors and then wait till the Conjunction is over to be able to attack again. Changing them to this would make them work as they are supposed to be used, and would greatly help with the current issues with Conjunctions.
    If all you can do is wait for the CJ to be over to contribute you might as well jump in the 1 shots. If you cannot attack or defend while a CJ is active then you will just get zerged. Burg pops CJ, zerg targets group that can't do anything until CJ expires. By activating a CJ you are essentially stun locking yourself instead.

    Initial idea was good, just not practical in a PvP zone.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    1,005

    Re: Way to help fix the CJ issues

    /signed because i pity you
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0a20b01000006e8f3/signature.png]Kerishnak[/charsig]
    ~Kerishnak Rank 9 Reaver!~~ ~~Vajyno Rank 5 Defiler~~ ~~Namrod Rank 8 Loremaster of Eru~~ ~~Feynor Rank 6 warden oh and a rank 4 ezmode warg

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    2,055

    Re: Way to help fix the CJ issues

    IF they actually changed cj's to work that way shouldn't they also balance freep/creep cj's? make them at least worth joining in on creepside. right now about the only time someone will join in is if they need power otherwise forcing them to root themselves in place for the time of the cj is totally worthless

  5. #5

    Re: Way to help fix the CJ issues

    Remove Cj"s From The Enttenmoors Entirely!
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/082070000000a0419/01001/signature.png]Stumplie[/charsig]

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Clinton, NJ
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    1,443

    Re: Way to help fix the CJ issues

    Quote Originally Posted by GloinBlingBling View Post
    Remove Cj"s From The Enttenmoors Entirely!
    This man is somewhat intelligent!
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/042070000000cbc65/01001/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Australia
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    3,862

    Re: Way to help fix the CJ issues

    CJ's are so op that even the finest of angmar cannot take them.



    Definately needs a nerf.
    Last edited by Untg99; Apr 26 2010 at 07:59 AM.

  8. #8

    Re: Way to help fix the CJ issues

    Best screen shot i've seen in a long long time.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/082070000000a0419/01001/signature.png]Stumplie[/charsig]

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    Morgantown, WV
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    13,373

    Re: Way to help fix the CJ issues

    Quote Originally Posted by GloinBlingBling View Post
    Remove Cj"s From The Enttenmoors Entirely!
    ^^^This^^^
    Jeffaman-Guarding Hobbit Jeffro-Burgling Hobbit Tinulaurien-Elf Lore Master Cephus-Champion of Men Lilnooblet-Hunting Hobbit Jeffrandir-Snooty Elf Rune-keeper- All of Brandywine
    Long live the halflings! Praise them with great praise!
    RIP Nidor - Brandywine's bravest warrior


  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    2,901

    Re: Way to help fix the CJ issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffor View Post
    ^^^This^^^
    Remove CJs and/or fix the Reaver's skillset.

    And again, CJs were not a problem until Turbine made them a glaring issue. Requesting/demanding/calling for a nerf to a Creep/Freep skillset because of the fault of Turbine is sort of ludicrous. While Warg's may not need much else, WBMs, in the form of TS, are part of their earned skillset and they shouldn't be nerfed because Turbine broke CJ-States by a) Allowing them to proc with Cripple+Pounce b) Allowing no pro-active measures to counter CJ-States (SoP:R/Bloodrage/Charge!) and c) Allowing no reactive measures to counter CJ-States.

    Fix any of the 3 and we'll move in a better direction. Or better yet, establish a 1m CJ-State immunity. While it may hinder the random Warg/Burg passing by, it doesn't debilitate their skillset.
    Last edited by bprorsum; Apr 26 2010 at 10:03 AM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    12,146

    Re: Way to help fix the CJ issues

    Make CJs a stun again. There. Done.
    [FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=#ffffff][COLOR=red][FONT=Tahoma][B][COLOR=darkorchid]Second Marshal[/COLOR] Luc Brandenbuck[/B][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=#a9a9a9][FONT=Tahoma] ~[B]Battlemaster[/B]~
    Stalker's Enemy*Reaver's Enemy*Blackarrow's Enemy*Warleader-Foe*Weaver's Enemy*Defiler-Foe
    [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=#ffffff][COLOR=lime][FONT=Tahoma][COLOR=#ff0000][FONT=Tahoma][B]Champion[/B][FONT=Tahoma]:[SIZE=1]'The only thing our opponents can do that we care about is die.'-Graalx2[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]
    [/FONT][/COLOR]
    [/COLOR][/FONT]

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
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    558

    Re: Way to help fix the CJ issues

    Quote Originally Posted by bprorsum View Post
    And again, CJs were not a problem until Turbine made them a glaring issue. Requesting/demanding/calling for a nerf to a Creep/Freep skillset because of the fault of Turbine is sort of ludicrous. While Warg's may not need much else, WBMs, in the form of TS, are part of their earned skillset and they shouldn't be nerfed because Turbine broke CJ-States by a) Allowing them to proc with Cripple+Pounce b) Allowing no pro-active measures to counter CJ-States (SoP:R/Bloodrage/Charge!) and c) Allowing no reactive measures to counter CJ-States.
    Well, I remember the purple freeple eater being a "glaring issue" for 2 weeks (and the same done by a _single_ hunter in MoM being a non-glaring issue for .. 2 months?). From my point of view, introducing CJs to the moors was an error. And giving it to the both stealth classes made it worse. But they have it now, and other classes have some of it, too.. one should carefully consider changing too much of it. Or you have to do a lot other changes, too.

    I like the idea of removing CJs from the moors. But if this is done without other changes, we will see burgs and loremasters becoming Gods of survival again (Find footing and SoP:R), and if loremasters find out how to protect a group, they will be able to render most of creeps CC meaningless to their group. At the moment, CJ-stun is the #1 tool of killing burgs and extremely helpful in killing loremasters. Removing it without other changes will change the overall-balance drastically in favor of the freeps.

    I agree to bprorsum that the cripple/pounce -> CJ-stun _BUG_ should be fixed. This will help the problem, but not solve it. I would really like to see the other 2 suggestions (pro-active/reactive means against these stuns) being done, but if this is done, the CC balance will shift in favor of freeps once again. Removing find footing from the moors and giving something like SoP:R to creeps might balance this again.

    Apart from all of this, wargs need a nerf. But this should be a nerf that makes the class much less attractive than it is now while leaving it generally intact. Everyone who has played a warg and a burg in the moors will agree that moving speed is a major factor, and that wargs have an exreme advantage as they can move with 110% speed _in stealth_. Limit wargs movement speed in stealth to 80-90%, and the class will be much nearer where it should be.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    130

    Re: Way to help fix the CJ issues

    Quote Originally Posted by DorianFalkenmond View Post
    Well, I remember the purple freeple eater being a "glaring issue" for 2 weeks..
    I wasnt playing around that time, what was the issue?

    [QUOTE=DorianFalkenmond;4599996]
    Quote Originally Posted by DorianFalkenmond View Post
    I like the idea of removing CJs from the moors. But if this is done without other changes, we will see burgs and loremasters becoming Gods of survival again (Find footing and SoP:R), and if loremasters find out how to protect a group, they will be able to render most of creeps CC meaningless to their group. At the moment, CJ-stun is the #1 tool of killing burgs and extremely helpful in killing loremasters. Removing it without other changes will change the overall-balance drastically in favor of the freeps..
    You have a valid point on removing CJ's just reverting FF and SoP:R being a step to closer to being a god.

    Quote Originally Posted by DorianFalkenmond View Post
    I agree to bprorsum that the cripple/pounce -> CJ-stun _BUG_ should be fixed..
    It's not a BUG. it's working as intended... but the intention was wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by DorianFalkenmond View Post
    Apart from all of this, wargs need a nerf. But this should be a nerf that makes the class much less attractive than it is now while leaving it generally intact. Everyone who has played a warg and a burg in the moors will agree that moving speed is a major factor, and that wargs have an exreme advantage as they can move with 110% speed _in stealth_. Limit wargs movement speed in stealth to 80-90%, and the class will be much nearer where it should be.
    The only nerf wargs really need is to lengthen the CD on CB+Pounce, 10sec is to short.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    558

    Re: Way to help fix the CJ issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Morihei View Post
    I wasnt playing around that time, what was the issue?
    When CJ were introduced, one CJ - 6* purple - was able to easily kill a freep. It did enouh damage (I dont remember exactly what it was, maybe 4000? It was long befor MoM).

    This CJ could be done by a warg pack, leaving 5 of them in cover. Only one of them had to come in and tendon shred. What happened? Waves of freeps entered the moors, did, what they had always done - ride from Glain to elven camp - to find themselves being CJed and killed by a warg pack within 2 seconds.

    This was fixed in 2 weeks.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Orange County, California
    Posts
    4,223

    Re: Way to help fix the CJ issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Untg99 View Post
    That pic is so epic. LOL!

    Now we just need a SS of a CJ on a Ranger of Esteldin.

    Wonder if you could CJ every one-shotter and then wipe a rez...
    Last edited by Overtone; Apr 26 2010 at 02:05 PM.
    [center]Landy: [b]Alphanova 3.0[/b] - R10 RK [b][i]Hitman for Mother Nature[/i][/b]
    Brandy: [b]Rotoreaver[/b] - R9 Reaver [b][i]Chop-N-Cleaver[/i][/b]
    Firefoot-Retired: [b]Alphazen[/b] - R9 Hunt*rd (MoM); [b]Spankdush[/b] - R6 Warg (SoA)
    [/center]

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    130

    Re: Way to help fix the CJ issues

    Quote Originally Posted by DorianFalkenmond View Post
    When CJ were introduced, one CJ - 6* purple - was able to easily kill a freep. It did enouh damage (I dont remember exactly what it was, maybe 4000? It was long befor MoM).

    This CJ could be done by a warg pack, leaving 5 of them in cover. Only one of them had to come in and tendon shred. What happened? Waves of freeps entered the moors, did, what they had always done - ride from Glain to elven camp - to find themselves being CJed and killed by a warg pack within 2 seconds.

    This was fixed in 2 weeks.
    I Dont remember that in SoA, but yeah. Back in those days 4k could 1 shot most of the freep classes. they shoulda just changed the purple to be like the green, no damage HoT.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    3,862

    Re: Way to help fix the CJ issues

    Quote Originally Posted by Overtone View Post
    That pic is so epic. LOL!

    Now we just need a SS of a CJ on a Ranger of Esteldin.

    Wonder if you could CJ every one-shotter and then wipe a rez...
    SS of one on a ranger is not possible, i had to distract all of them and turn them around so i could get closer. Unfortunately wargs cant do this. Unless you can still get inside an enemy rez circle i don't see how that is possible.

    Actually, i have been wondering if a few lm's can circle around a rez point and send their pets in and run away, and while the one-shots are still aggro'd on them, other people can zerge the rez spot...

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Morgantown, WV
    Posts
    13,373

    Re: Way to help fix the CJ issues

    Back in the early days of SOA I beleive you could mez or fear all the stone circle one-shots because I remember being killed by freeps in the creep rez circle. They fixed that before too long though.
    Jeffaman-Guarding Hobbit Jeffro-Burgling Hobbit Tinulaurien-Elf Lore Master Cephus-Champion of Men Lilnooblet-Hunting Hobbit Jeffrandir-Snooty Elf Rune-keeper- All of Brandywine
    Long live the halflings! Praise them with great praise!
    RIP Nidor - Brandywine's bravest warrior


  19. #19

    Re: Way to help fix the CJ issues

    I agree, the new CJ DR mechanic is just dumb.

    It's been said 1000 times... immunity for one minute after the first CJ!

 

 

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