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  1. #1
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    Yet Another Virtue Thread...(solo)

    I've read and read about Captain builds but almost all of them have to do with builds for grouping. Now I know cappies are a support class and they are awesome at that, but I'm really horrible at raids and group stuff so I just putter around soloing my way through Middle Earth.

    Unlike any other class I've played so far, my captain is just burning through Power like mad - after 2 mobs I'm out or almost out. Is that normal or am I doing something wrong? I don't know if this is a virtue problem or what. What's the best virtue group for a solo? I have Empathy, Confidence, Loyalty, Wisdom, and Idealism slotted now but it doesn't seem right.

  2. #2

    Re: Yet Another Virtue Thread...(solo)

    well confidence doesn't really have much place solo or otherwise, I'd go with innocence if you're soloing a lot.

    as far as power goes, do you have ICPR bracelets? what is your fate at?
    Kraken, Thesungodra

  3. #3
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    Re: Yet Another Virtue Thread...(solo)

    I don't have ICPR bracelets...just ones that give some fate, vit, morale, and power. I'll look for some, thanks.

    Fate's at 255 now. I've no idea what it ought to be at level 50. Yes, I'm level 50 and still don't know this stuff ...

  4. #4
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    Re: Yet Another Virtue Thread...(solo)

    What I'm using now, and really like:
    Discipline, Wisdom, Loyalty, Fidelity, Innocence

    While you may not have as much life as many maximum morale builds, you have some pretty good mitigations, and the virtues are a good, all around build for most anything you can do - from solo to Watcher and DN to 3 and 6 man instances to Skirmishes to the Moors.
    Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

    Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

  5. #5
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    Re: Yet Another Virtue Thread...(solo)

    I never even thought of fidelity as an option, but it has that nice vitality and power combo. As you said it doesn't have a ton of morale built in but I haven't found that to be a problem anyway. It's mostly been power problems for me. My morale strategy is to use every morale heal/boost I have except the big one, then leave my herald to die while I run like a little girl

  6. #6
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    Re: Yet Another Virtue Thread...(solo)

    You should definitely find some ICPR gear if you're having power problems, though Fate may be easier to find. You can even use the Tactic:Focus if you need to. Also watch your actual skill rotations--that's the key, I think. Get a reasonable routine down. Due to the way combat mechanics were changed in SoM, it's much easier to burn down power on the captain if you're not watching your rotation. You could try getting Defensive Strike in between every other skill, for example.

    I tend to think of virtues as being buffers against gear/stats/traits--depending on the gear you have along with playstyle requirements, choose virtues that make up for areas in which you lack. And here's another thing: builds are holistic. Without knowing your gear and traits, just looking at virtues may not be a big help. It may be easier to switch a piece of gear or a class trait, for example, than doing a kill deed. If you haven't, you should seriously consider traiting Now for Wrath; Strong Voice can help too with lowering power usage.

    I think my virtues are currently Determination/Innocence/Justice/Loyalty/Tolerance (can't check at the moment) because I favor regen, morale, and melee/tact defense with the stuff I have; this would not be the set for you if you need more of both power and ICPR. Self-buffed without food or Tactics, I get around 1200 ICMR and 1100 ICPR. The only time I've ever run out of power was running 1H-shield and smacking things liberally without care.

  7. #7
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    Re: Yet Another Virtue Thread...(solo)

    Thanks Trilwych...I think you may have solved my problem...I mostly run 1H-shield and smack things liberally without care! Having played squishy classes for the most part and soloing most of the time, I feel vulnerable without the shield. Guess I'll get crazy and get myself a halberd. Thanks too for the advice about gear and traits. Hopefully I'll be able to kill some stuff now w/o constant pots.

  8. #8
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    Re: Yet Another Virtue Thread...(solo)

    Quote Originally Posted by Theowa View Post
    Thanks Trilwych...I think you may have solved my problem...I mostly run 1H-shield and smack things liberally without care! Having played squishy classes for the most part and soloing most of the time, I feel vulnerable without the shield. Guess I'll get crazy and get myself a halberd. Thanks too for the advice about gear and traits. Hopefully I'll be able to kill some stuff now w/o constant pots.
    Well, that was easy enough.
    And it's understandable about feeling that you need a shield; just be sure that your heavy armour is close enough to your level, and you might then consider virtues that give +armour or melee mitigations. Given the captain's overall survivability, second only to warden some might argue, I wouldn't worry too much. Also, don't feel limited to the halberd--with SoM's weapon changes, you can look more closely at the actual stats on any 2H. I personally always picked weapons with ICPR, for example, and slot my legendaries with ICPR relics.

  9. #9

    Re: Yet Another Virtue Thread...(solo)

    Hi Trilwych,

    You refered to using the watching skill rotations in your first post in this thread. I was wondering if you could give an example of a good skill rotation to use.

    As I'm new to the class I want to make sure that I don't get into any bad habits :-).

    Regards,

    Raven

  10. #10
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    Re: Yet Another Virtue Thread...(solo)

    Quote Originally Posted by Raven_SB View Post
    Hi Trilwych,

    You refered to using the watching skill rotations in your first post in this thread. I was wondering if you could give an example of a good skill rotation to use.

    As I'm new to the class I want to make sure that I don't get into any bad habits :-).

    Regards,

    Raven
    Hi, and welcome to captainhood. We rock.

    The gist is that if you pop every skill the moment they come off cooldown, you're going to burn through power faster. Before SoM, captains relied on both auto-attack queue and weapon speed to slow down power consumption. These days, you'd look at our skill ticks (duration) and cooldowns.

    (I guess I made a mistake in my Defensive Strike comment up there. Given the way the queueing works now, I think if you spam that you'll run even lower on power since it has a very short cooldown, even if it's cheap. I never got into the habit of click-every-skill-off-cooldown, so I haven't paid that close attention to my actual rotation.)

    I would keep two basic things in mind: Battle-shout is our real skill bottleneck (gate) at a 20-sec cooldown untraited, and Defensive Strike ticks to 10 seconds despite having a 3-second cooldown. You are always auto-attacking. There isn't really a hard and fast rotation rule, though the nature of our cooldowns tends to limit variety.

    For example, I might run through a combat rotation of: Mark, Battle (initial damage pull) > Defensive > Pressing (PA always does more damage than noncrit DB, AFAIR) > Elendil > Cutting > Inspire if I'm healing my Shield Brother (some people use Inspire regularly as an extra DPS attack, but that sucks up more power). Then I'll wait until the moment Defensive ticks off before reapplying and then starting the combat rotation again (DS>BS>PA, etc.). This allows time for auto-attacking and power regen.

    Be aware that popping every DPS skill off cooldown does increase your overall DPS--for a little while ("burst"), but the trade-off is certainly power consumption. There are situations where you will want to burst despite burning power, such as killing mobs that do high tactical damage or that heal. If you're responsible for healing to some extent in a group scenario, then you have to be even more careful about your DPS skill+heal rotation--try not to overwrite heal ticks, allowing more time between DPS skills to allow for more auto-attacks/power regen, etc.

    Basically, your rotation decisions will be based on a balance of power consumption and DPS (or heal). That's all I can think of at the moment, and I'm sure other captains will have more advice.

  11. #11
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    Re: Yet Another Virtue Thread...(solo)

    Don't know where I found this:
    http://taugrim.com/2009/06/29/guide-...###-mechanics/
    but I printed it out! Along with your sage advice, Trilwych.

    As much as I think I've learned about this great class.. I have so much more to learn.
    Last edited by Nardian; Apr 19 2010 at 02:50 PM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0b20c00000012e209/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    [I]"He knows not to what end he rides; yet if he knew, he would still go on."[/I]

  12. #12
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    Re: Yet Another Virtue Thread...(solo)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nardian View Post
    Don't know where I found this:
    http://taugrim.com/2009/06/29/guide-...###-mechanics/
    but I printed it out! Along with your sage advice, Trilwych.

    As much as I think I've learned about this great class.. I have so much more to learn.
    There are quite a few decent captain guides out there, yes, but when it comes to captain DPS specifically, I will suggest that you should ignore all advice that pre-dates December 2009.

    This is because both weapon and combat mechanics changes in Siege of Mirkwood (early Dec.2009) negated a lot of that advice. Halberds are not the absolute be-all and end-all weapon for captains anymore, even with the class passive +damage. If you reeeaaally want to min-max (in which case you would not be playing a captain, IMO ), you can opt to use only halberds or slot the racial +sword damage trait and use only swords. But the low percent doesn't make a big difference, really.



    Edit: Oh, and healing changes. SoM introduced the different heal rating system with Will and something, but I haven't paid that close attention. Basically, a whole lot changed in December 2009...
    Last edited by Trilwych; Apr 19 2010 at 03:07 PM.

  13. #13

    Re: Yet Another Virtue Thread...(solo)

    I differ my approach with a lot of people, when I hear that someone can't solo something my first thought is always....are they using in-combat food? Even before I would reach for in-combat regen bracelets I would reach for food.

    I do understand that many people just hate spending the money on food, but even with food there are deals to be had.

    If you're just cruising around and prey is just a bit beyond your in-combat power regen then Blackberry Tarts are often cheap. Further, the price on the non-crit food is often fairly cheap since many cooks dump the non-crit and keep the crit food for either their own use or to sell at a premium. The normal food for level 50 are Racks of Lamb.

    With the recent changes to food, in-combat food is really nice for cutting downtime, since the out of combat aspect almost always lasts longer then it did in the past.

    On top of power regen food there is also stat increasing food. If morale is an issue (you've said it usually isn't) at level 50 there's red tea. There are other food for other stats, search on the AH under Trail Food.

    You're level 50 now and if you're in moria you'll you'll start having quests where you can pick power potions for rewards and the level 45 power pots will drop fairly often. You can keep the level 51+ ones you'll get for more risky uses and chug the level 45 ones.

    When people look at the price of consumables like food and potions they would be well advised to look at the whole picture. If a person dies because they're trying to save money on consumables they still wind up with a repair bill. If they're doing quests significantly slower then they're paying an opportunity cost (lost xp/advancement/etcetera).

    No one has brought up that you might consider finishing your level 50 class quest (which you can start at level 45). The reward is a legendary skill that will give you +50 to each stat. This alone will give you more power, more morale, more in-combat power regen, a bit more damage output, higher crit rate, a few less misses, and on and on. In addition, this is a buff everyone in your group, so you'd help a group simply by following around.

    This quest isn't easy, at level 50 you can try to get into runs for the items, the other options are to buy the items, or do many many skirmishes and buy the items. Likely, you'll wind up doing skirmishes for some and buying other items. For the lower items outside the group content, try to get those items yourself or maybe you can find someone to help you. Unfortunately, items like the Slime of Helchgam tend to be very expensive12-15ish gold or 2600 marks. If you're in a good size kin and they're willing to run Carn Dum it would be a great spot for you to learn some grouping skills, though you might have others who want to roll on the Slime for themselves. It is a bad idea to buy items like Corroded Neekerbreeker Horns, Grisly Bat Talons, Coiled Spider Spinnerets, Hateful Worm Eyes, and Rotted Barghest Paws with skirmish marks since they're costely. You can with a bit of luck get all those yourself (though the Rotted Barghest Paws might be a bit beyond you to solo). Also, the single Teeth of the Gorthorog you'll need is usually very cheap on the AH. If you see one for a few hundred silver of less I would buy it on the AH.

    Here's a nice list of items needed by class: http://lotro-wiki.com/index.php/Class_Quest_Drops

    If you're unsure about grouping, I think a captain is the best class to actually group with. Not that great captains don't require a ton of skills, but in the sense that simply being an aware captain can contribute considerably to a group. Still if you're in a kin you might ask someone duo a bit with you and if you're not in a kin you could look for others to duo with. Duoing with another captain would possibly teach you some tricks. Failing that, duoing with any of the tank classes might be a way to start, since you could let the guardian, warden, captain, or champion tank and then you're less likely to have to worry about tanking on top of everything else.

    If your pet gets you in trouble with grouping use a banner instead (in many groups it is the better choice often). Since Moria isn't for the most part end-game much of the harder content isn't as hard as it once was. Grand Stairs (six-man) is not very difficult with a competent group. Again if you're in a kin they should be willing to walk you though a couple of times to learn the ropes.

    Lastly, voice might be the best tool to help you to learn how to group. Even if you don't have a mic (and you shoudl get one) just being able to listen to others would help considerably.

  14. #14
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    Re: Yet Another Virtue Thread...(solo)

    Thanks Palpolo for your well-thought out and detailed reply. I've considered doing the class quests but as you say, getting the slime is impossible w/o a group and I'm not sure I want to shell out the money for it. I'll probably end up getting it because I've coveted that trait for awhile now!

    I think your advice about grouping is really helpful, especially the part about starting with duos and using voice. I'll probably stick with solo, although I play some with my kids, because my life has enough tension already without worrying that I'll cause my group to wipe and everyone will hate and mock me!

  15. #15
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    Re: Yet Another Virtue Thread...(solo)

    Quote Originally Posted by Theowa View Post
    Thanks Palpolo for your well-thought out and detailed reply. I've considered doing the class quests but as you say, getting the slime is impossible w/o a group and I'm not sure I want to shell out the money for it. I'll probably end up getting it because I've coveted that trait for awhile now!
    If you don't want to pay/group, then certainly skirmishes are a viable alternative to getting the needed class quest items. It will take a while, though. And if you hate skirmishing, that's a whole other issue.

    I'll probably stick with solo, although I play some with my kids, because my life has enough tension already without worrying that I'll cause my group to wipe and everyone will hate and mock me!
    I've actually been writing a solo-captain-skirmish guide for people like you in terms of group practice. I wouldn't worry too much, though, especially if you find a kinship that's forgiving of newbies--recommended route. Relax. Have fun. Eat pie...

 

 

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