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  1. #1
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    What build is this? :)

    I keep hearing captains have bad DPS, everyone should trait HoH, blah blah.

    I'm not one to read the "how you should play" threads and go off and respec my characters. I tend to come away with one or two tidbits that I remember long enough to test. So I don't really know what my build is...but I like it.

    It's interesting...my "main" is a Hunter. I'm not finding that my captain DPS is "gimped" at all. Maybe my Hunter totally sucks

    But for solo work I've been running 5 HoH with the 2 pet buffs (Loyalty and...Precise Ally?) and the archer. I find I'm killing trash nearly as easily as the Hunter and obviously able to handle multi-MOB pulls WAY easier.

    Between a ~12% melee crit and the archer's damage...I dunno, things seem to be going fine. And there's so much utility to this build.

    It's a nice option for flake droppers...for me at least. I let the archer attack first and heal him only. Once healing pulls aggro, I tank and spank for a while. Once I get low enough to be scared, I just kite and let the archer finish them off.

    Pulling from Range: the archer is so great for this.

    Off tanking: the archer is the only Herald who can actually pull aggro off me even after Pressing Attacks and heals.

    AE damage: my 4 target Pressing Attack is SWEET for multi-MOB pulls. Almost a guaranteed battle-ready state. I haven't gone above 4 targets yet because, well, I shouldn't be pulling more than 4

    Now, for group work I definitely swap out the pet buffs for Defiance and the attack speed buff (sorry, forgot name) and usually traited Hope. I know my expected role in a group, I think.

    But for Solo and only needing to swap 2 traits (sometimes 3) it just seems to work great to me. And my Captain is by no means "maxed out".

    What do you all think?

    http://my.lotro.com/character/landroval/lorond/

  2. #2
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    Re: What build is this? :)

    I'm...not sure what your question is, actually.

    If you've found a build that works for you, then that's all there is to it. Period. There's no need to attach an "accepted" label to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigtuna00 View Post
    I keep hearing captains have bad DPS, everyone should trait HoH, blah blah.

    I'm not one to read the "how you should play" threads and go off and respec my characters. I tend to come away with one or two tidbits that I remember long enough to test. So I don't really know what my build is...but I like it.
    Yeah, don't listen to the "you must trait this way" bull floating around. Build information can help for the truly clueless, but I'm also of the belief that anyone relying too much on that sort of thing won't be able to get a good feel for their class intricacies.

    But for solo work I've been running 5 HoH with the 2 pet buffs (Loyalty and...Precise Ally?) and the archer.
    This general 5/2 setup has been mentioned elsewhere that I remember as being very viable. Unless you're serious about min-max, our traits are fluid enough to be forgiving in a variety of configurations so long as you keep in mind your primary group role (don't go in with all LtC if you're main-healing ). There is, of course, the argument that LtC/LoM, depending on your point of view, needs drastic upgrading; but at this point, I don't believe it's anything to worry about in terms of "accepted" "cookie cutter" trait builds.

  3. #3
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    Re: What build is this? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigtuna00 View Post
    I keep hearing captains have bad DPS, everyone should trait HoH, blah blah.

    I'm not one to read the "how you should play" threads and go off and respec my characters. I tend to come away with one or two tidbits that I remember long enough to test. So I don't really know what my build is...but I like it.

    It's interesting...my "main" is a Hunter. I'm not finding that my captain DPS is "gimped" at all. Maybe my Hunter totally sucks

    But for solo work I've been running 5 HoH with the 2 pet buffs (Loyalty and...Precise Ally?) and the archer. I find I'm killing trash nearly as easily as the Hunter and obviously able to handle multi-MOB pulls WAY easier.

    Between a ~12% melee crit and the archer's damage...I dunno, things seem to be going fine. And there's so much utility to this build.

    It's a nice option for flake droppers...for me at least. I let the archer attack first and heal him only. Once healing pulls aggro, I tank and spank for a while. Once I get low enough to be scared, I just kite and let the archer finish them off.

    Pulling from Range: the archer is so great for this.

    Off tanking: the archer is the only Herald who can actually pull aggro off me even after Pressing Attacks and heals.

    AE damage: my 4 target Pressing Attack is SWEET for multi-MOB pulls. Almost a guaranteed battle-ready state. I haven't gone above 4 targets yet because, well, I shouldn't be pulling more than 4

    Now, for group work I definitely swap out the pet buffs for Defiance and the attack speed buff (sorry, forgot name) and usually traited Hope. I know my expected role in a group, I think.

    But for Solo and only needing to swap 2 traits (sometimes 3) it just seems to work great to me. And my Captain is by no means "maxed out".

    What do you all think?

    http://my.lotro.com/character/landroval/lorond/
    Pretty much 5LtC 2LoM is the higherst DPS available to a captain.

    The HoH statements come from fellowship/raiding persepctives where you have alot of other DPS contribution so yours as a percentage is alot lower. In that case, to arms/captain of war are better traits to use for dps.

    The great thing about a captain is there is no *right* way to play a captain. Play how you enjoy, its just true in general you get more out of the class in a off healing role rather than DPS.

  4. #4
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    Re: What build is this? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocatequil View Post
    Pretty much 5LtC 2LoM is the higherst DPS available to a captain.

    The HoH statements come from fellowship/raiding persepctives where you have alot of other DPS contribution so yours as a percentage is alot lower. In that case, to arms/captain of war are better traits to use for dps.

    The great thing about a captain is there is no *right* way to play a captain. Play how you enjoy, its just true in general you get more out of the class in a off healing role rather than DPS.
    As long as you use your banners, buff your group and use words of courage in groups, I'm happy.

    I've played with sooo many captains that rarely ever use WoC..... This never made sense to me, because they get the skill before Lvl 10 I think, and using a few WoC here and there can definitely make the difference between your group succeeding and failing.
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  5. #5
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    Re: What build is this? :)

    It depends on the group and the instance.

    I love healing SG, just pop a ghost and let champions kill skeletons in the middle of everything else and you dont need WoC you have RC up virtually the whole time .

    IDK, alot of captain's i've pugged with lately are scared to Strength of Will, Inspire and WoC. The reason for your observations is that captains are the most group centric class of everyone (with the possible exception of LMs) and when soloing WoC is never needed. Alot of newer levelled captains still are learning alot of how to play their class in groups.

  6. #6
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    Re: What build is this? :)

    Thanks for the comments all. I guess my point was two-fold:

    • To point out the build seems to work great, if others are interested in trying it.
    • To confirm that I'm not completely nuts


    In groups I find that if I'm not pressing every button I can, I'm doing something wrong, or afk

    I keep Inspire and WoC up all the time. I usually don't have aggro anyway, so I'm free to give the healers a little boost.

  7. #7
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    Re: What build is this? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigtuna00 View Post
    I keep hearing captains have bad DPS, everyone should trait HoH, blah blah.

    I'm not one to read the "how you should play" threads and go off and respec my characters. I tend to come away with one or two tidbits that I remember long enough to test. So I don't really know what my build is...but I like it.

    It's interesting...my "main" is a Hunter. I'm not finding that my captain DPS is "gimped" at all. Maybe my Hunter totally sucks

    But for solo work I've been running 5 HoH with the 2 pet buffs (Loyalty and...Precise Ally?) and the archer. I find I'm killing trash nearly as easily as the Hunter and obviously able to handle multi-MOB pulls WAY easier.

    Between a ~12% melee crit and the archer's damage...I dunno, things seem to be going fine. And there's so much utility to this build.

    It's a nice option for flake droppers...for me at least. I let the archer attack first and heal him only. Once healing pulls aggro, I tank and spank for a while. Once I get low enough to be scared, I just kite and let the archer finish them off.

    Pulling from Range: the archer is so great for this.

    Off tanking: the archer is the only Herald who can actually pull aggro off me even after Pressing Attacks and heals.

    AE damage: my 4 target Pressing Attack is SWEET for multi-MOB pulls. Almost a guaranteed battle-ready state. I haven't gone above 4 targets yet because, well, I shouldn't be pulling more than 4

    Now, for group work I definitely swap out the pet buffs for Defiance and the attack speed buff (sorry, forgot name) and usually traited Hope. I know my expected role in a group, I think.

    But for Solo and only needing to swap 2 traits (sometimes 3) it just seems to work great to me. And my Captain is by no means "maxed out".

    What do you all think?

    http://my.lotro.com/character/landroval/lorond/
    I think pretty much same as you. These captains who complain endlessly about their dps really don't have much ground to stand on, especially when you factor in the damage our archer is capable of on top of our regular damage. It's certainly good enough to kill things at a reasonable pace, and I wish this topic would die out.

    If you want to do huge dps you should have played a dps class. That's what they are there for. The captain is not the class for you.
    Last edited by Jeremi; Apr 07 2010 at 04:15 AM.

  8. #8
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    Re: What build is this? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by ZeppelinCobalt View Post
    I've played with sooo many captains that rarely ever use WoC..... This never made sense to me, because they get the skill before Lvl 10 I think, and using a few WoC here and there can definitely make the difference between your group succeeding and failing.
    Really? Captains not using WoC? This just seems crazy to me. It's probably my most used skill BY FAR when grouped. If a mins has a few ballads up it can crit heal for ~1300 or more. <3 WoC.

  9. #9
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    Re: What build is this? :)

    solo-build

  10. #10
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    Re: What build is this? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by DreagonMK View Post
    Really? Captains not using WoC? This just seems crazy to me. It's probably my most used skill BY FAR when grouped. If a mins has a few ballads up it can crit heal for ~1300 or more. <3 WoC.
    Yeah, man, idk. There's a few in specific but I won't call names.

    Quote Originally Posted by Apocatequil View Post
    It depends on the group and the instance.

    I love healing SG, just pop a ghost and let champions kill skeletons in the middle of everything else and you dont need WoC you have RC up virtually the whole time .

    IDK, alot of captain's i've pugged with lately are scared to Strength of Will, Inspire and WoC. The reason for your observations is that captains are the most group centric class of everyone (with the possible exception of LMs) and when soloing WoC is never needed. Alot of newer levelled captains still are learning alot of how to play their class in groups.
    ^ Above I said there's atleast one or two I've had to group with them quite a bit.
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  11. #11
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    Re: What build is this? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by SapienChavez View Post
    solo-build
    Fair enough. I'll add to that a little:

    Solo build that does not require you to swap all traits out for a group.

    I suppose that's the strange part for me: I'm traiting HoH and still getting plenty good kill rates.

    I might try swapping for the LoM, LtC DPS build just for comparison but it would be too expensive to do on a regular basis for me.

  12. #12
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    Re: What build is this? :)

    My solo and group build is the same. (5 HoH with self heal rather than being able to summon a herald and 2 Lead the charge)
    It holds up well with killing flake dropper level 65 elites solo (over 1/2 morale left at end of fight with 1/3 power left if unlucky and almost full morale if normal fight)
    It hold up well with fighting 5-8 level 65 normal mobs at once (1/4 morale left at end of fight against 8 with no power at end, but still alive with no last stand/strength of morale used though have used healing pot and power pot)
    and does well when in a group. (off healing with Shield Brother on tank and targeting on the champ for healing with Words of Courage while attacking what the champ is attacking)(Rally cry when enemy is defeated or get a crit to heal the group some and restore group power a bit)
    It is different from the other captains I have played with but works well for me and their build works well for them. It is all a matter of what you are used to and play style.
    Many I know focus more on healing and some on DPS. I just have a balanced build.
    Last edited by adamantiumdragon; Apr 12 2010 at 01:56 PM.
    [url=http://my.lotro.com/character/windfola/Ellandor][charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0720600000000c4fc/01002/signature.png]Ellandor[/charsig][/url]
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  13. #13

    Re: What build is this? :)

    Right on. And to all those that say cappy doesnt do enough dps... well.. anyone wants to try 6-8 mobs on RK or a Hunter?

    Quote Originally Posted by adamantiumdragon View Post
    My solo and group build is the same. (5 HoH with self heal rather than being able to summon a herald and 2 Lead the charge)
    It holds up well with killing flake dropper level 65 elites solo (over 1/2 morale left at end of fight with 1/3 power left if unlucky and almost full morale if normal fight)
    It hold up well with fighting 5-8 level 65 normal mobs at once (1/4 morale left at end of fight against 8 with no power at end, but still alive with no last stand/strength of morale used though have used healing pot and power pot)
    and does well when in a group. (off healing with Shield Brother on tank and targeting on the champ for healing with Words of Courage while attacking what the champ is attacking)(Rally cry when enemy is defeated or get a crit to heal the group some and restore group power a bit)
    It is different from the other captains I have played with but works well for me and their build works well for them. It is all a matter of what you are used to and play style.
    Many I know focus more on healing and some on DPS. I just have a balanced build.

  14. #14
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    Re: What build is this? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    These captains who complain endlessly about their dps really don't have much ground to stand on...
    I think the majority of those who complain about dps are ones that started their Captain in MoM and never played one back in SoA.

    On topic, if a build works, it works. Screw what some random guy who inspected you has to say.

  15. #15
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    Re: What build is this? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by adamantiumdragon View Post
    My solo and group build is the same. (5 HoH with self heal rather than being able to summon a herald and 2 Lead the charge)
    Just curious, what do you use in LtC and what is your thinking on it vs LoM? Renewed voice and expert attacks possibly (to get opportunities to crit more often on PA)? LoM traits (and bonus) seem slightly more group friendly, with Captain of War and Tactical Prowess being nice DPS helpers. And Defiance can be good solo or group, though situational. But in particular the mark cooldown bonus makes LoM very nice, as you otherwise have stretches with no mark on anything. But I guess the argument for LtC is it helps get your rallying cry up more often, particularly against single big bosses where things aren't dying.

  16. #16
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    Smile Re: What build is this? :)

    It helps with getting Rally Cry off more often. Can usually get one off every 30 seconds or so with group kills and my crits on Pressing Attack and Devastating Blow which are at 4500+ with buffs and traits.
    Last edited by adamantiumdragon; Apr 12 2010 at 05:02 PM.
    [url=http://my.lotro.com/character/windfola/Ellandor][charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0720600000000c4fc/01002/signature.png]Ellandor[/charsig][/url]
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  17. #17

    Re: What build is this? :)

    At the OP, if it works, great for you!

    I'm too attached to "Mark Dancing" (vs. stance dancing). The crafted relic for damage seems to be doing well by me for upping the crits, and I really like instantly swapping marks to fit the situation. The ability to go back and forth between Revealing and Telling has gotten me through too many solo battles where the differences in morale were so great I should have just died.
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  18. #18
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    Re: What build is this? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by DelgonTheWise View Post
    Just curious, what do you use in LtC and what is your thinking on it vs LoM? Renewed voice and expert attacks possibly (to get opportunities to crit more often on PA)? LoM traits (and bonus) seem slightly more group friendly, with Captain of War and Tactical Prowess being nice DPS helpers. And Defiance can be good solo or group, though situational. But in particular the mark cooldown bonus makes LoM very nice, as you otherwise have stretches with no mark on anything. But I guess the argument for LtC is it helps get your rallying cry up more often, particularly against single big bosses where things aren't dying.
    I know it wasn't directed at me, but you described my build exactly. I use Renewed Voice and Expert to pop of Rallies non stop.

    I know there are solid traits in LoM, but here's why I don't use them ( and what I consider what might be valid replacements. )

    *Cap of Victory: I've always used Victory Banner, but I use all three frequently ( even grouped ) enough to not use a trait. I don't even slot hope.
    *Numenor: I prefer to trait so I never need to "Oh ****!" and not make an "Oh ****!" better.
    *Defiance: It's situational. And with new IHW, we can easily survive without the longer LS. Also, see above.
    *Tac Prowess: I would definately use this, but then I'd only have 1 LoM slotted. Luckily I have TA as a legacy.

    And yes, no Mark CD is extremely nice, but I can justify it as time to let the tank get more aggro before the Hunts and Champs open up. And anyway, the 10 sec CD on Marks is annoying, but not really a must.

    I think my build works. Lotta people tell me it doesn't, but they aren't playing Planet; I am. There's great synergy between my LIs, my traits, and my gear.

  19. #19
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    Re: What build is this? :)

    You can read the how to play your captain threads and guides, but that is what they are guides, for you to read and decide what works for you. They are there to introduce different ideas.
    Once you start to learn the class you will adopt those to what works for you and you will enjoy the class a lot more.
    You will then most likely move on to the Min/Max crowd

    As to the people who want you to spam WoC, then i would say to relax a bit. WoC spam is highly inefficient. It has a nice HoT, so let it run.
    Also if you need to use it all the time, then your main healer is not doing their job or the group is overextending them selves.
    WoC is a great heal to top people off and help stabilize the situation but Rally Cry is your bread and butter if you are not main healing.

  20. #20
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    Re: What build is this? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizalot View Post
    I know it wasn't directed at me, but you described my build exactly. I use Renewed Voice and Expert to pop of Rallies non stop.

    I know there are solid traits in LoM, but here's why I don't use them ( and what I consider what might be valid replacements. )

    *Cap of Victory: I've always used Victory Banner, but I use all three frequently ( even grouped ) enough to not use a trait. I don't even slot hope.
    *Numenor: I prefer to trait so I never need to "Oh ****!" and not make an "Oh ****!" better.
    *Defiance: It's situational. And with new IHW, we can easily survive without the longer LS. Also, see above.
    *Tac Prowess: I would definately use this, but then I'd only have 1 LoM slotted. Luckily I have TA as a legacy.

    And yes, no Mark CD is extremely nice, but I can justify it as time to let the tank get more aggro before the Hunts and Champs open up. And anyway, the 10 sec CD on Marks is annoying, but not really a must.

    I think my build works. Lotta people tell me it doesn't, but they aren't playing Planet; I am. There's great synergy between my LIs, my traits, and my gear.
    I think the mark depends on the situation. For example in SG, moving your mark from the Guards to the Brutes when their shield is down can add a lot of damage dealt. Having to wait 10 seconds can start to add up and kill time and in my opinion the longer the fight takes the more time for things to go bad.
    It is not essential but i like knowing that i can instantly switch targets or even marks if necessary. In solo it becomes less of an issue though.

  21. #21
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    Re: What build is this? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigtuna00 View Post
    I keep hearing captains have bad DPS, everyone should trait HoH, blah blah.

    I'm not one to read the "how you should play" threads and go off and respec my characters. I tend to come away with one or two tidbits that I remember long enough to test. So I don't really know what my build is...but I like it.

    It's interesting...my "main" is a Hunter. I'm not finding that my captain DPS is "gimped" at all. Maybe my Hunter totally sucks

    But for solo work I've been running 5 HoH with the 2 pet buffs (Loyalty and...Precise Ally?) and the archer. I find I'm killing trash nearly as easily as the Hunter and obviously able to handle multi-MOB pulls WAY easier.

    Between a ~12% melee crit and the archer's damage...I dunno, things seem to be going fine. And there's so much utility to this build.

    It's a nice option for flake droppers...for me at least. I let the archer attack first and heal him only. Once healing pulls aggro, I tank and spank for a while. Once I get low enough to be scared, I just kite and let the archer finish them off.

    Pulling from Range: the archer is so great for this.

    Off tanking: the archer is the only Herald who can actually pull aggro off me even after Pressing Attacks and heals.

    AE damage: my 4 target Pressing Attack is SWEET for multi-MOB pulls. Almost a guaranteed battle-ready state. I haven't gone above 4 targets yet because, well, I shouldn't be pulling more than 4

    Now, for group work I definitely swap out the pet buffs for Defiance and the attack speed buff (sorry, forgot name) and usually traited Hope. I know my expected role in a group, I think.

    But for Solo and only needing to swap 2 traits (sometimes 3) it just seems to work great to me. And my Captain is by no means "maxed out".

    What do you all think?

    http://my.lotro.com/character/landroval/lorond/
    To the OP, It is good that you are happy with the dps you have killing trash mobs, but among all the classes I've played, trash mobs have never being a problem and have died quickly.

    Now in my experience, comparing the speed for killing between my hunter and my captain, hunter with the DPS build I use is about 5 times faster than my captain.

  22. #22
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    Re: What build is this? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pillager101 View Post
    I think the mark depends on the situation. For example in SG, moving your mark from the Guards to the Brutes when their shield is down can add a lot of damage dealt. Having to wait 10 seconds can start to add up and kill time and in my opinion the longer the fight takes the more time for things to go bad.
    Swap the mark before the shield goes down, or keep it on the brute.

    And the part of the fight going bad is valid, but in my experience, it doesn't happen enough to warrant the trait.

  23. #23
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    Re: What build is this? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizalot View Post
    ....
    And yes, no Mark CD is extremely nice, but I can justify it as time to let the tank get more aggro before the Hunts and Champs open up. And anyway, the 10 sec CD on Marks is annoying, but not really a must.
    ....
    The only time I feel this really matters is in a raid or when main healing.

    I slot 2 yellows for raids so that when the mob dies and the raid assist switches targets, I can get that mark up NOW. I learned that lesson in Vile Maw. Not having that mark up in time for the hunters' Heart Seeker really stinks. When running the gauntlet in BG, not having that cooldown reduction means 10 seconds of no free healing or 10 seconds of 10% less damage every few moments. In that fight in particular, the trash dies fast. Without that cooldown you may spend more time NOT having a marked target as you do with a marked target. Having run the gauntlet with captains with or without the mark cooldown, I have noticed the runs go significantly smoother if both captains can throw up those marks instantly.

    If I'm main healing, it's just a no-brainier. 10 seconds of free healing can not be squandered.
    Last edited by SGWB; Apr 13 2010 at 04:25 PM.

  24. #24
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    Re: What build is this? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Wizalot View Post
    Swap the mark before the shield goes down, or keep it on the brute.

    And the part of the fight going bad is valid, but in my experience, it doesn't happen enough to warrant the trait.
    This is true but also i find that having To Arms is very good to have in there. That trait plus the Legacy give my hunter or champ 30 seconds of 25% extra damage.

    I just do not see anything in LtC that would off set that in raid or grouping environment.

    As the 2nd in the LoM line you can decide between Victory Banner, or War Cry attack speed boost increase, all are valid. I usually run with Improved War Cry.
    I know champs and hunters love that extra 15% attack speed.

    LtC is just not very raid/fellowship friendly. Even solo its meh in my opinion but other swear by it and i can see how it could be good, just not for me.

  25. #25
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    Re: What build is this? :)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pillager101 View Post
    For example in SG, moving your mark from the Guards to the Brutes when their shield is down can add a lot of damage dealt. Having to wait 10 seconds can start to add up and kill time and in my opinion the longer the fight takes the more time for things to go bad.
    Telling mark on the brute all the time. It increases incoming damage, including damage absorbed from the other mobs afaik. At least that's what I understand from the tooltip: "increases incoming damage to a marked foe", not "increases damage directly applied to a marked foe".

    Much better to bring a burglar for cj and no shield on the brute, though... burglars are so OP, I must roll one :-D

 

 
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