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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    3,025

    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    OK. Here is my 2c. I leveled my first Captain to 50 back in SoA and I absolutely, completely LOATHED her until about level 45. I only soloed or duo'd with her (and her duo buddy was a Hunter). Since I was heavy armor, I thought I should tank for the Hunter... didn't happen. Since I had heals, I thought I should heal the Hunter... wasn't fast enough. I had previously leveled a Minstrel and a Guardian, so I was thinking of the class as a combination between the two... and it really really isn't. At 45, I started grouping and doing instances and OMG. The Captain suddenly became my favorite class! So much fun! I felt so powerful in groups, especially in raids.

    Now I'm leveling my second Captain, who is currently level 33, and I am leveling her with a group of others. This time around, since I know how to play it as it should be and everything, I'm having loads of fun.

    It's not a solo class for me.
    Narlinde, level 100 Minstrel, Rank 11, Member of Trucido ~ Windfola

  2. #27

    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    Because they are inspired by the Captionation, and since he wont be playing for a while, they are demoralized to role a capt.
    [center][b]<Free Peoples> | <The Beorning>[/b][/center][center][color=lightgreen][b]Caption[/b] - Captionation[/color] | [color=red][b]Chaption[/b] - Ownage Champion[/color][/center]
    [center][b][color=lightgreen]Ungolianta[/color] | [color=white]Sharps[/b][/color][/center]
    [center][b][color=black]Nimrodel[/color][/center][/b]

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    1,051

    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    Quote Originally Posted by PF-Grumpy View Post
    Yeah I'm sorry I'm still not seeing it.

    • When I was leveling my burg (last month) there was nothing but RKs, Wardens and Captains running around.
    • When I stand in the 21st there are level 55 Cappys everywhere
    • When I go to OG, there are captains everywhere
    • When I joined the open raid (nandir was there, who can blame me), we had 4 Captains.
    • We have more captains than we have spots for Captains in our BG raids
    *shrug*
    Landroval is full of RP nerds.

    RPing on a captain is less weird than saying

    "I write on a rock, and lightning springs from my hands!"

    or

    "I play my drum, and light comes out of the sky to smite you!"

    Therefore, there are at minimum, an excess of people who wanted to play healers but couldn't bring themselves to sound ridiculous RPing.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000018f9c7/signature.png]Felaedor[/charsig]

  4. #29

    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    I will tell it like it is.

    Captains are the red headed gimps of LOTRO. Always have been, always will be. This game was specifically designed around classes that do one thing the best. Guardians tank the best, Minstrels heal the best, Hunters range damage the best, Champions AOE melee damage the best, Burglars debuff the best, Loremaster...uh, well ok maybe that one is not there.

    The game is pretty basic in terms of combat mechanics. It's not like EQ where you need certain classes for certain things, nor is it like EQ2 where you HAVE to be precise about when you do certain abilities.

    This game is pretty forgiving. And you dont really need a jack of all trades class. There is no need for it in this game.

    Captains do nothing better than anyone, if you want to count buffs that is fine...but show me one instance where you if you dont have a Captain you fail.

    You need a Guardian, you need a Minstrel and you need DPS. Captains are fine in groups....but do you really need one?

    And because 99% of the people solo this game, you are stuck soloing a jack of all trades class....and that is sloooooooooow and depressing.

    Watch a minstrel solo....you will get real depressed.
    Watch a Loremaster solo...you will get depressed.
    Watch a Burglar solo...depressing.
    Watch a Guardian go in his DPS mode....depressing.

    And while those classes are killing at a faster rate, you are stuck using TWO melee primary attacks. That is it. Two primary attacks.

    Sure, Captains are very good at surviving but to what end.....if the game is mostly a solo game, and combat is very basic then there is no real need to survive a big pull of three mobs when other classes do the same thing by killing them faster.

    Captains are the class that come up short on everything.

    You get heavy armor, but you cannot really tank.
    You get a taunt, but you cannot really hold aggro.
    You get a couple of heals, but you cannot be a primary group healer.
    You get a shield...but it's a light shield (I have wanted this changed since closed beta, make it a trait like Champs for heavy shields).
    You get a big weapon, but you have to rely on crits.

    It just feels like you never do anything great and because you can do everything so-so....you pay the price by being eternally gimp.

    Yes, I realize that if you get great gear and slot everything right you can get pretty good at a lot of things....but that takes forever.

    The Captain class does not even get playable until the mid 30s. Most people will just delete it. As soon as you start a hunter, you know its a great class. As soon as you start a guardian, you know exactly what your role is. Minstrels...same thing.

    The real kick in the nuts was the introduction of the Warden and the Runekeeper. They put in a GREAT tank class...but gave him medium armor as sort of a penalty. Well, it turns out it's not that big a penalty.

    The Runekeeper? They are the class that broke the game in terms of class design. They can trait for first tier DPS or they can trait for primary healing. Why cant a Captain trait for primary tanking, or primary healing. Second rate is all you get.

    It's also very, very slow and time consuming to play a Captain. Everything slows down to a crawl and that is just not very fun.

    Once you get great gear, and great LIs (not good, but great) and have all your deeds and such...then you begin to be on equal level with the other classes. But it takes sooooo long to get there by the time you arrive, you are burnt out.

    I guarantee you that EVERY Captain has a Hunter alt. That is just the way it is. You get jealous of the classes that do one thing great.

    If I could magically switch my Captain's traits, deeds, gear and LIs over to another class I would probably be a burglar. But I put so much work into this Captain it would be a shame to not play it as a main.

    I enjoy the class at level 65 with all the bells and whistles...but a lot of the time it still feels clunky.

  5. #30
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    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Koboldfodder View Post
    Yes, I realize that if you get great gear and slot everything right you can get pretty good at a lot of things....but that takes forever.

    This game is all about grind...

    The Captain class does not even get playable until the mid 30s. Most people will just delete it. As soon as you start a hunter, you know its a great class. As soon as you start a guardian, you know exactly what your role is. Minstrels...same thing.

    But I've seen a lot of people playing one at low-mid-high level areas

    It's also very, very slow and time consuming to play a Captain. Everything slows down to a crawl and that is just not very fun.

    Its a question of perspective, i thought the guardian was slower, but that's just me.

    Once you get great gear, and great LIs (not good, but great) and have all your deeds and such...then you begin to be on equal level with the other classes. But it takes sooooo long to get there by the time you arrive, you are burnt out.

    (i'll skip on this)

    I guarantee you that EVERY Captain has a Hunter alt. That is just the way it is. You get jealous of the classes that do one thing great.

    I've one, i've also a minstrel, a guardian, a champs, a burgle a LM, a RK and a Warden too but it isn't because i'm jealous of the other classes

    If I could magically switch my Captain's traits, deeds, gear and LIs over to another class I would probably be a burglar. But I put so much work into this Captain it would be a shame to not play it as a main.

    Nothing prevent you to reroll a burgle, i know another completionist who rolled a second character what a shame for a completionnist, grinding all the stuff again...

    I enjoy the class at level 65 with all the bells and whistles...but a lot of the time it still feels clunky.

    No one keep you playing a character, if you don't like it just reroll
    stuff stuff stuff
    [COLOR=#008080]If it isn't about FlameThrower, Grenade and Rocket Launcher, you're playing the wrong classes, race and game..
    [/COLOR]

  6. Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Koboldfodder View Post
    I will tell it like it is.

    Captains are the red headed gimps of LOTRO. Always have been, always will be. This game was specifically designed around classes that do one thing the best. Guardians tank the best, Minstrels heal the best, Hunters range damage the best, Champions AOE melee damage the best, Burglars debuff the best, Loremaster...uh, well ok maybe that one is not there.

    The game is pretty basic in terms of combat mechanics. It's not like EQ where you need certain classes for certain things, nor is it like EQ2 where you HAVE to be precise about when you do certain abilities.

    This game is pretty forgiving. And you dont really need a jack of all trades class. There is no need for it in this game.

    Captains do nothing better than anyone, if you want to count buffs that is fine...but show me one instance where you if you dont have a Captain you fail.

    You need a Guardian, you need a Minstrel and you need DPS. Captains are fine in groups....but do you really need one?

    And because 99% of the people solo this game, you are stuck soloing a jack of all trades class....and that is sloooooooooow and depressing.

    Watch a minstrel solo....you will get real depressed.
    Watch a Loremaster solo...you will get depressed.
    Watch a Burglar solo...depressing.
    Watch a Guardian go in his DPS mode....depressing.

    And while those classes are killing at a faster rate, you are stuck using TWO melee primary attacks. That is it. Two primary attacks.

    Sure, Captains are very good at surviving but to what end.....if the game is mostly a solo game, and combat is very basic then there is no real need to survive a big pull of three mobs when other classes do the same thing by killing them faster.

    Captains are the class that come up short on everything.

    You get heavy armor, but you cannot really tank.
    You get a taunt, but you cannot really hold aggro.
    You get a couple of heals, but you cannot be a primary group healer.
    You get a shield...but it's a light shield (I have wanted this changed since closed beta, make it a trait like Champs for heavy shields).
    You get a big weapon, but you have to rely on crits.

    It just feels like you never do anything great and because you can do everything so-so....you pay the price by being eternally gimp.

    Yes, I realize that if you get great gear and slot everything right you can get pretty good at a lot of things....but that takes forever.

    The Captain class does not even get playable until the mid 30s. Most people will just delete it. As soon as you start a hunter, you know its a great class. As soon as you start a guardian, you know exactly what your role is. Minstrels...same thing.

    The real kick in the nuts was the introduction of the Warden and the Runekeeper. They put in a GREAT tank class...but gave him medium armor as sort of a penalty. Well, it turns out it's not that big a penalty.

    The Runekeeper? They are the class that broke the game in terms of class design. They can trait for first tier DPS or they can trait for primary healing. Why cant a Captain trait for primary tanking, or primary healing. Second rate is all you get.

    It's also very, very slow and time consuming to play a Captain. Everything slows down to a crawl and that is just not very fun.

    Once you get great gear, and great LIs (not good, but great) and have all your deeds and such...then you begin to be on equal level with the other classes. But it takes sooooo long to get there by the time you arrive, you are burnt out.

    I guarantee you that EVERY Captain has a Hunter alt. That is just the way it is. You get jealous of the classes that do one thing great.

    If I could magically switch my Captain's traits, deeds, gear and LIs over to another class I would probably be a burglar. But I put so much work into this Captain it would be a shame to not play it as a main.

    I enjoy the class at level 65 with all the bells and whistles...but a lot of the time it still feels clunky.

    Really sorry you feel that way: I really try to play an alt, but it is hard for me to give up the tremendous survivability and flexibility of my cappie. I do in fact have a hunter alt, but he is in Esteldin tailoring for my kin. I just find him a little.... dull. So, no I don't agree: we aren't the best at anything: but we can do virtually everything at once. This is a tremendous boon to the fellowship and - speaking personally - a great advantage to my gameplay experience.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a00000033326e/01008/signature.png]doronor[/charsig]

  7. #32
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    1,816

    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    Most people start a captain and never see 40+ on them, they burn out before they get REALLY good. Our level progression and access to skills are backwards versus the other classes.

    What I mean by that is all the other classes get most, if not all their ahhh "cool skills" by 10 or 20 where we get a few little things, and are "gimped" versus these other classes until we hit the 40s. Most starting captains don't get past the 20 -35 "wall" and why you see a ton of lowbie ones and only like 10% - 20% of those at high level.

    Captain is/was my first class to fully level to max, leveling other toons seems a cake walk versus my captain, my other high level toon is a hunter that was leveled insanely fast due to all the dps and travel ports.

    If you can get past the "mid-level wall", get the skills, the gear, etc, etc. You will become like myself and other high level captains (Really Fing good and always in demand for raids).

    We pretty much "suck" until we get to the high level ranges (45+) and for most players this is too much and burn out, that's why there is a perceived lack of captains, because you don't see many in their 60s.

  8. #33
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    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Koboldfodder View Post
    I will tell it like it is.

    Captains are the red headed gimps of LOTRO. Always have been, always will be. This game was specifically designed around classes that do one thing the best. Guardians tank the best, Minstrels heal the best, Hunters range damage the best, Champions AOE melee damage the best, Burglars debuff the best, Loremaster...uh, well ok maybe that one is not there.

    The game is pretty basic in terms of combat mechanics. It's not like EQ where you need certain classes for certain things, nor is it like EQ2 where you HAVE to be precise about when you do certain abilities.

    This game is pretty forgiving. And you dont really need a jack of all trades class. There is no need for it in this game.

    Captains do nothing better than anyone, if you want to count buffs that is fine...but show me one instance where you if you dont have a Captain you fail.

    You need a Guardian, you need a Minstrel and you need DPS. Captains are fine in groups....but do you really need one?

    And because 99% of the people solo this game, you are stuck soloing a jack of all trades class....and that is sloooooooooow and depressing.

    Watch a minstrel solo....you will get real depressed.
    Watch a Loremaster solo...you will get depressed.
    Watch a Burglar solo...depressing.
    Watch a Guardian go in his DPS mode....depressing.

    And while those classes are killing at a faster rate, you are stuck using TWO melee primary attacks. That is it. Two primary attacks.

    Sure, Captains are very good at surviving but to what end.....if the game is mostly a solo game, and combat is very basic then there is no real need to survive a big pull of three mobs when other classes do the same thing by killing them faster.

    Captains are the class that come up short on everything.

    You get heavy armor, but you cannot really tank.
    You get a taunt, but you cannot really hold aggro.
    You get a couple of heals, but you cannot be a primary group healer.
    You get a shield...but it's a light shield (I have wanted this changed since closed beta, make it a trait like Champs for heavy shields).
    You get a big weapon, but you have to rely on crits.

    It just feels like you never do anything great and because you can do everything so-so....you pay the price by being eternally gimp.

    Yes, I realize that if you get great gear and slot everything right you can get pretty good at a lot of things....but that takes forever.

    The Captain class does not even get playable until the mid 30s. Most people will just delete it. As soon as you start a hunter, you know its a great class. As soon as you start a guardian, you know exactly what your role is. Minstrels...same thing.

    The real kick in the nuts was the introduction of the Warden and the Runekeeper. They put in a GREAT tank class...but gave him medium armor as sort of a penalty. Well, it turns out it's not that big a penalty.

    The Runekeeper? They are the class that broke the game in terms of class design. They can trait for first tier DPS or they can trait for primary healing. Why cant a Captain trait for primary tanking, or primary healing. Second rate is all you get.

    It's also very, very slow and time consuming to play a Captain. Everything slows down to a crawl and that is just not very fun.

    Once you get great gear, and great LIs (not good, but great) and have all your deeds and such...then you begin to be on equal level with the other classes. But it takes sooooo long to get there by the time you arrive, you are burnt out.

    I guarantee you that EVERY Captain has a Hunter alt. That is just the way it is. You get jealous of the classes that do one thing great.

    If I could magically switch my Captain's traits, deeds, gear and LIs over to another class I would probably be a burglar. But I put so much work into this Captain it would be a shame to not play it as a main.

    I enjoy the class at level 65 with all the bells and whistles...but a lot of the time it still feels clunky.
    I hear all these complaints about how slow they are to level.... what is everyone's obsession with burning through levels in MMOs these days? This game has epic content, gear, quest at all level ranges so it's not like we have to get to 65 the fastest way possible to enjoy the game....

    You do lay out the issues that do burn out people from the class, but if they can "survive" these issues to the end game, they are rewarded with an awesome toon.

    I have a Mini friend who I did Duo Skirmishes with yesterday and at one point he asked me if I was un-killable (watching me tank a boss and a couple of goons by myself) He died I think at least twice where I never died at all and at one point he almost stopped fighting because he said he was amazed that I could not only survive the boss onslaughts, I was killing them and keeping aggro away from his Warrior NPC, healing the group, and watching my own NPCs (giving them orders). He kept telling me how hard the Skirmish we did was soo hard, etc, etc. Afterwards he tells me it's never been that easy before and it has to be because of me.

    That's the reward WE get if you get to the end levels, and it's awesome. I get those same comments all the time or "damn larce your healing is insane" stuff like that.

  9. #34
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    Wink Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Koboldfodder View Post
    I will tell it like it is.
    Captains are the red headed gimps of LOTRO.
    (snip)
    Well I think you shouldn't play a captain if you feel that way, unless you are a masochist.

    Captains aren't for everyone. Playing a captain is not being about YOU, it's being about THE GROUP.

    If you care about "the best dps", "the best tanking", "the best healing", captaining is not for you.

    If you care about "the best group", then you can be a good captain, because that's what a good captain brings to a group.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/022040000001307b6/01003/signature.png]Turimborn[/charsig]
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  10. #35
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    Jun 2008
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    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turimbar View Post
    Well I think you shouldn't play a captain if you feel that way, unless you are a masochist.

    Captains aren't for everyone. Playing a captain is not being about YOU, it's being about THE GROUP.

    If you care about "the best dps", "the best tanking", "the best healing", captaining is not for you.

    If you care about "the best group", then you can be a good captain, because that's what a good captain brings to a group.
    dunno bout you but i like to be able to solo with decent speed
    this isn't me complaining
    just thought i'd point that out
    [CENTER][charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0b20c0000000b36d8/signature.png]Slartibart[/charsig]
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  11. #36
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    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    Quote Originally Posted by flyingcircus View Post
    dunno bout you but i like to be able to solo with decent speed
    this isn't me complaining
    just thought i'd point that out
    Yes, captains aren't that great @ solo play.

    But hey, the class name gives a hint about that huh?

    As I said, captains aren't for everyone. I even consider the slower leveling a good thing for the class, it helps filtering away people who wouldn't be good captains and end just giving the class a bad name.

    The "sacrifice" of a decent solo speed helps screening people who are ready to sacrifice being the "best" something for the group's greater good.
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  12. #37
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    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Larce View Post
    I have a Mini friend who I did Duo Skirmishes with yesterday and at one point he asked me if I was un-killable (watching me tank a boss and a couple of goons by myself) He died I think at least twice where I never died at all and at one point he almost stopped fighting because he said he was amazed that I could not only survive the boss onslaughts, I was killing them and keeping aggro away from his Warrior NPC, healing the group, and watching my own NPCs (giving them orders). He kept telling me how hard the Skirmish we did was soo hard, etc, etc. Afterwards he tells me it's never been that easy before and it has to be because of me.
    That would explain what a captain is perfectly. Well put sir.
    [COLOR=#008080]If it isn't about FlameThrower, Grenade and Rocket Launcher, you're playing the wrong classes, race and game..
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  13. #38
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    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Turimbar View Post
    Yes, captains aren't that great @ solo play.

    But hey, the class name gives a hint about that huh?

    As I said, captains aren't for everyone. I even consider the slower leveling a good thing for the class, it helps filtering away people who wouldn't be good captains and end just giving the class a bad name.

    The "sacrifice" of a decent solo speed helps screening people who are ready to sacrifice being the "best" something for the group's greater good.
    Exactly, sacrifices to level the class up are rewarded at the end in soo many ways is what to me makes the class soo damned good.

    It's for sure not a class for the impatient or folks who simply want to kill stuff, but a class for those who have to think, lay out their skills right, and use them in them correct manner, while babysitting folks in their group and sometimes NPCs as well.

    A multi-tasking class you could say, some folks just can't hack that and why it seems the class sucks. Furthest thing from the truth if you know what you are doing though. Not trying to toot my own horn but there must be some reason I am in high demand or people compliment me when I am in a raid or a group, I have to be doing something right.

  14. #39
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    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    FWIW, my lower level Captain is now unable to do one of the epic quests, a red quest which doesn't present much of a problem for my other toons.

    It doesn't have heavy armour yet. It has level-appropriate armour pieces, the big ones critical craft results, plus level-fit critical shield and crit main hand weapon. No go. I cannot hold back mobs since I have no ranged attack. The cooldown on all hitting skills I have is too high to grind down mobs in time. I get one heal after killing the first mob but that's it. The moment I lose my herald I'm going down. Normally you can use "Make Haste" to run away, recover and go back before mobs respan but this quest is an instance in a closed space.

    I['m just lucky I won't need any of this gear in a couple of levels

    I have another higher level Captain that I use only for fellowshipping around and that one is doing fine, at least it does since I switched to 1H+shield.

  15. #40
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    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    people too often confuse speed-of-leveling with ease-of-leveling.

    captains may be slow, but we can handle many situations, solo, others cant.


    if you need some proof, on the main forum there is a long thread about people not being able to rescue the dwarf from the dungeons in book 9 and how hard that quest is... note, none of them are captains complaining, but lots of RKs, the super-solo class, according to most (in these kinds of threads)
    "I am always serious; I am never serious." -Me
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  16. #41
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    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    Our kin is also historically short on captains.

    I think the statement that they "aren't primary anything" is probably a good assumption. I also agree that they are a bore to level - I luckily leveled mine with a kinmate, so it wasn't as bad as it could have been.

    I've play all the classes pretty thoroughly (except Warden) and have to say that playing a good captain is one of the busiest roles in the game. My main is a burg and second is the captain. Both are busy classes when played to full potential. In Moria, cappies often made the difference between struggle and dominate in 6-man content...

    But part of it may also be the lack of respect. I can't count how many times after a smooth run people will call out the mins (or RK) regarding the great heals. Yeah.....um......huh? I was guilty of the same until I started playing a captain and saw how much they can contribute to the state of the green bars.

    It's arguably the least "wow" class around, but I'd rather have one along than not - every time.
    [CENTER]
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  17. #42
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    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    To anyone that says that Captains are too slow to level, my reply is "you're doin' it wrong!". I had an argument with a kinnie once before who wanted to tell me that fighting 2-3 mobs on my CPT just wasn't efficient and that I should work mobs one at a time in PvE. I'm guessing he was one of the babies who thinks leveling Captains is too slow.


    I love my CPT. He off heals (and can main most three-mans), he gives super-hawt buffz to my groups, he lets eveyrone do 10% more dmg on a mob, lets them attack faster and do it with better morale and more hope.


    It's true. A captain may not be the right class for a solo-artista, but every group is far better off having one.

  18. #43
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    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    I've never played a Captain, but every time I've grouped with one things were....better.
    A captain totally healed 3 man sword halls easy mode. A captain got me through SH hard mode.
    I grouped with a captain with my lvl 30 burg alt, and we were unstoppable between the captains buffs and my debuffs, nothing could survive.
    Captains are a force multiplier that should not be scoffed at.
    An engine needs oil for all the parts to work smoothly together, and every fellowship should have a captain.
    85 RK | 85 CHMP | 75 BRG | many others

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Southern USA
    Posts
    378

    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    I love playing with my captain and have no bad times soloing. I will usually run around and gather up about 5 or so on same level mobs and fight them at one time for fun. I don't use a herald or a soldier in skirmishes, nor do I use a herald in regular play. I just use a banner and HoH build with self heal rather than a herald.
    I found it way more fun to play that way rather than with a herald or pet soldier.
    Running around on Windfola I see tons of captains so I assume others are having a good time playing one as well.
    Last edited by adamantiumdragon; Mar 24 2010 at 05:14 PM.
    [url=http://my.lotro.com/character/windfola/Ellandor][charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0720600000000c4fc/01002/signature.png]Ellandor[/charsig][/url]
    [url=http://dawningeclipse.shivtr.com]Dawning Eclipse[/url]
    “I can avoid being seen if I wish, but to disappear entirely, that is a rare gift.”

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    487

    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    Not sure if Captains are the smallest group on Windfola. (Ellendor above says she sees "lots". Do not disagree.) Anecdotally wonder if it is Loremasters maybe Burglars. Could be wrong. Anyways.

    I have friends who play their non-Captain class very well who try out a Captain alt and quit. Similar to what everyone else says. Slow. Boring. Or so it may seem at lower levels. I switched from Hunter main to Captain because I saw a level 30(?) Captain in action and thought "wow".

    I think Captains are the bomb. They are deliciously heroic. Make everything easier. Sometimes save the day.

    Bad pull in 16th Hall... the whole dang room comes after us... people going down fast... oh no we're gonna wipe... throwing out heals... trip LS/IHM... and when the dust clears we have triumphed. Someone types in chat "we are officially b@d@ss". Take no credit because hey it's what we do.

    It is true that generally speaking we are jacks-of-all-trades and masters-of-almost-none. I like supporting the group. I like making everyone beefy. I like helping the healer. I like helping with dps. I like providing what the group needs depending on the situation.

    No I do not have a Hunter alt. Well okay I do but seldom use him. Admit that for a change of pace like to take my Champion out for a spin. Shing shing! Lots of fun. But the Captain is most satisfying.
    Ngaemond 105 Cpt | Ngeowyn 105 Wrd | Ngamarie 100 Cpt(!?!) | Ngorbadoc 105 Hnt | Ngurin 100 Grd | Ngollwydha 105 Brg | Darkest Hour - Arkenstone (formerly Windfola)

    Stop Crying about awesomeness... Captain was, is, and will be awesome. -MorningStarSE

  21. #46

    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    I started my Captain in closed Beta and took the character over with everything maxed at level 15 with max tradeskills. In other words, I put a lot of work into the character. I knew this game was a grind fest, all of use did. I just dont want to run the same deeds, grinds, quests for other characters. To me that is not fun.

    So I stuck with the Captain. I like the character, dont love it. Every other class is superior in certain aspects, Captain's can do a little bit of everything.

    Here is what I think. Most of the people who play Captains played Paladins or Knights in other games. They want to be the big guy in armor protecting the squishes. That is what I thought about when I first read about the Captain class wayyyyy back in the day.

    The class did not turn out the way I and others envisioned it. Many people made similar posts on Beta boards and once the game went live. I decided to stick it out because I put a lot of work into the character AND we did get better.

    But the class is not what you think a Captain should be when you read the books. In retrospect, I probably should have played a Guardian...I guess I can rry a Warden but I really dont feel like deed grinding, quest grinding, LI grinding, level grinding, IXP grinding, rep grinding.....yea, not fun.

    Captains are gimps. They were not designed correctly for the mechanics of this game. They do not function as well as other classes when it comes to combat management. They feel clunky and slow and no matter what you do there is one class (sometimes two) that do it better than you.

    I love playing my Captain in a full group with a Guardian and a Minstrel. But I am just utility and fill in the gap healing. I wanted this class to be the Leader of Men it sounded like. I wanted it to be a Paladin like class that could tank and heal.

    Didnt turn out that way.

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    1,816

    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Koboldfodder View Post
    I started my Captain in closed Beta and took the character over with everything maxed at level 15 with max tradeskills. In other words, I put a lot of work into the character. I knew this game was a grind fest, all of use did. I just dont want to run the same deeds, grinds, quests for other characters. To me that is not fun.

    So I stuck with the Captain. I like the character, dont love it. Every other class is superior in certain aspects, Captain's can do a little bit of everything.

    Here is what I think. Most of the people who play Captains played Paladins or Knights in other games. They want to be the big guy in armor protecting the squishes. That is what I thought about when I first read about the Captain class wayyyyy back in the day.

    The class did not turn out the way I and others envisioned it. Many people made similar posts on Beta boards and once the game went live. I decided to stick it out because I put a lot of work into the character AND we did get better.

    But the class is not what you think a Captain should be when you read the books. In retrospect, I probably should have played a Guardian...I guess I can rry a Warden but I really dont feel like deed grinding, quest grinding, LI grinding, level grinding, IXP grinding, rep grinding.....yea, not fun.

    Captains are gimps. They were not designed correctly for the mechanics of this game. They do not function as well as other classes when it comes to combat management. They feel clunky and slow and no matter what you do there is one class (sometimes two) that do it better than you.

    I love playing my Captain in a full group with a Guardian and a Minstrel. But I am just utility and fill in the gap healing. I wanted this class to be the Leader of Men it sounded like. I wanted it to be a Paladin like class that could tank and heal.

    Didnt turn out that way.
    With this mentality I am surprised you even stuck it out, envisioning what a class is and expecting it to play out the way you want can be 2 different things sometimes. Maybe a bit different for you since it seems it was a mistake of information in the early days, but at the same time Guardians are not only named correctly, reading a little information about them would have told you where you really needed to be.

    I hear captain gimp this, captain gimp that, blah blah blah all the damn Fing time. If YOU think it's gimped that's your build or play style mentality that's gimped not the class and what it is designed to do. I find this the as the largest major divide between good captains and ones that either quit them trying to level up or suck at high level (Not many of those though).

    I hear we can't tank, or can't dps, or can't heal as good, etc, etc. At lower levels this is very true, we are only truly gimped when we are leveling up.

    We may not have "uber dps" like other classes, and some think we cannot tank (I'd be an example of one who can and does quite often) but we can survive and heal up in nasty battles either in groups or in solo play that other classes (even guards) just can't. I take on fights while in solo play I know my Hunter who is fully decked out would have gotten his *** kicked in if I was on him, I pretty much have little to no fear while traveling in Moria or other lands because I know I am a captain.

    What the difference is between a "gimp" captain and a "great" captain is your build, gear, and mentality. If these are all in sync you shine (and so does the class), if they aren't, well maybe this is where the poor attitude some captains have or why people quit, they just are not "built" to play it.
    Last edited by Larce; Mar 25 2010 at 08:05 PM.

  23. #48

    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Larce View Post
    W
    I hear captain gimp this, captain gimp that, blah blah blah all the damn Fing time.
    There's probably a reason for that.

    On a side note, once I hit 56 and slotted the archer herald my personal dps went up a good bit, as well as my survivability dropping a bit less.

  24. #49
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    1,647

    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    Quote Originally Posted by PF-Grumpy View Post
    To anyone that says that Captains are too slow to level, my reply is "you're doin' it wrong!". I had an argument with a kinnie once before who wanted to tell me that fighting 2-3 mobs on my CPT just wasn't efficient and that I should work mobs one at a time in PvE. I'm guessing he was one of the babies who thinks leveling Captains is too slow.
    Well gee...I've leveled just about every class. I guess I don't know what I'm talking about then. I'd rather use my burg, RK, champ, mins, hunter or even tank in OP over my captain for solo things. P.S. - anyone who tells you to take one mob at a time on any class isn't an efficient leveler period. It would be safe to say I'd never take anything they said seriously ever again.


    Quote Originally Posted by PF-Grumpy View Post
    I love my CPT. He off heals (and can main most three-mans), he gives super-hawt buffz to my groups, he lets eveyrone do 10% more dmg on a mob, lets them attack faster and do it with better morale and more hope.
    That wasn't the point. The point of contention was slow leveling, not end-game uberosity. And they do level slowly relative to most other classes.

    No one who knows what they're talking about ever questioned whether they're good to bring along or not.
    [CENTER]
    [SIZE=1][COLOR=White]The [/COLOR][/SIZE][URL="http://thenoldor.guildlaunch.com"][SIZE=3][B]NOLDOR[/B][/SIZE][/URL][SIZE=1][COLOR=White] of Arkenstone[/COLOR][/SIZE]
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  25. #50
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    1,816

    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    Has anyone considered the "trials" we have to go through due to slower leveling, being sorta gimp while leveling is for the "price of admission" at the end?

    To be honest I like it that way, it filters out most of the **** players who are not suited for that type of play style and you normally end up with "uber" high end captains that actually have a clue with what they are doing.

    It pays off when all you have to do in announce you are available for RAD runs, turtle etc, and get an invite in 3 seconds.

    I did Turtle, GS, and FT last night, in all cases it was a "3 second" thing.

    Announce I was available for any run, BAM turtle invite, that was literally 3 seconds.

    Saw a FT group needing a cap, sent a tell, BAM invite.

    We had such a good little group we ran GS right afterwards.

    This happens all the time to me, announce or see an announcement/need for cap and boom, in the group and off I am going to kill X baddy or do Y raid or Z instance. I pretty much get a choice of any raid and when i want to do them, it's quite nice.

    If leveling slowly is the price I had to pay to get invites like that and be in such high demand, then is was worth every second longer I had to spend to level versus the other classes.

 

 
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