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  1. #1

    Why are Captains low in numbers?

    Whenever someone asks which classes have low populations, captains are most of the time the number one answer.

    Why is that?
    What is it about the class that makes us low in numbers?


    If you ask me I could not tell you. I can't decide if it's just a perfect storm of not being the primary class of anything. Other than buffing that is. Or if it's the lack luster pet, or what not. I really do not know.

    I like the class. It's gotten some what slow to level, but I was told that would be expected.

    What do you think?

  2. #2
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    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    It's a class that offers most rewarding play at endgame imo.

    A lot of people level solo, which creates these issues like the sluggish leveling and no main focus at first, and I think they just get worn out.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    It really is the fact that captains are quite slow to level solo, in a group they make everything faster, but solo at low levels its horrible.

    Most people who roll captains don't get past level 30 unfortunately (unsubstantiated by just my opinion )

  4. #4

    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    agreed. I've played 7 classes to level 30, 5 to 65, and captain was by far the worst leveling experience of them all. That said, he's quickly overtaking my champion as my favorite 65.
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  5. #5
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    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    Raid perspective? you only want 2 captains. You may have 4 hunters or whatever but you probably only want 2 captains. Same with groups, the dps of a captain doesn't justify not taking a different class in the second spot.
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  6. #6
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    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    I have actually been bringing my RK in healing mode to BG instead of my Captain as my RK is a lot better at healing, Absorbing damage from the whole group and even can use bubbles more often, even on people outside the fellowship.

  7. #7

    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Reillan View Post
    agreed. I've played 7 classes to level 30, 5 to 65, and captain was by far the worst leveling experience of them all. That said, he's quickly overtaking my champion as my favorite 65.
    I wonder what the second class you couldn't get past 30 was?

  8. #8

    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    I never said captain was gimp solo, I said it was slow. Pre OP Guard slow. That's my gripe. Pre-normalization, it didn't feel that way at all, because a couple of massive crits here and there kept my kill speed going nicely, or tore down a sig/elite that much quicker. I understand we attack faster now, with much less per-hit dps output, but the amount of skills on our hotbars hasn't really changed. We still don't have very many, and the cooldowns never changed, so all that extra attack speed doesn't really make a whole lot of difference in making up for the dps we lost over our former burst damage capability.

    Summoning the archer herald post 56 sped things up a little, but not to the point I'd be happy with. Keep in mind, as I've said many, many times, I have three characters in the 57-62 range: a full tank spec guard, a KoA traited LM, and a 57 captain. Neither the guard or the LM are traited for dps..I expect the kill speed I get with the guard, which tbh sits about the same as the captain. The LM far and away exceeds the captains solo speed. Therein lies my issue.

    I feel the captain is a slow soloer. I feel that this wasn't always the case. I do not feel that the captain is "gimped". I feel that a captain's solo capability could be improved upon, as it once was. For me, having started my captain at launch, it peaked back before pre normalization. Launch captains were gimp, they were improved greatly, and then kicked back down a couple notches with normalization. Imo.
    Last edited by vandyr; Mar 30 2010 at 01:41 PM.

  9. #9
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    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    My only qq about captain is that their best dps skills are gated behind crits.
    The amount of tweaking it takes to get crit percentage to a mere 15% is staggering - and for only 15%!
    guards have similar, though smaller, problem with skill gated behind successful block.
    what's wrong with implementing a system similar to fervour, or attunement, or gambits etc?

    Anyway, the buffer "role" is what throws ppl off i guess.
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  10. #10
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    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beastnas View Post
    It's a class that offers most rewarding play at endgame imo.

    A lot of people level solo, which creates these issues like the sluggish leveling and no main focus at first, and I think they just get worn out.
    How anyone could level sluggishly on this game is beyond me. This is by far the most easiest and quickest game to level up on I have ever played. I have to restrain my captain to keep from leveling up too fast in fact.

    The captain does how ever mature slowly, and feels weak until you start hitting the legendary scene, then it becomes good. That's the main reason I feel captains aren't overly played. Lot of players probably lose interest before the class starts getting good, but leveing up shouldn't ever be a problem.

  11. #11
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    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    How anyone could level sluggishly on this game is beyond me. This is by far the most easiest and quickest game to level up on I have ever played. I have to restrain my captain to keep from leveling up too fast in fact.

    The captain does how ever mature slowly, and feels weak until you start hitting the legendary scene, then it becomes good. That's the main reason I feel captains aren't overly played. Lot of players probably lose interest before the class starts getting good, but leveing up shouldn't ever be a problem.
    Yeah and compared to leveling pre-moria versus post, it's insane.

    With these skirmishes they added and the restructured content around to be a bit more friendly, to adding in waypoints or glowy areas where quest are, etc, etc. They have speed the leveling to warp speeds now compared to the launch days.

  12. #12
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    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Replica View Post
    Whenever someone asks which classes have low populations, captains are most of the time the number one answer.

    Depend on the server - mine is full of captain and i was impress to see how many there was at each expansion...

    Why is that?

    Why people would not want to play the classes is usually because they don't know how to play it.

    What is it about the class that makes us low in numbers?

    Nothing, its awesome - though a lot of people doesn't have a clue about how to play it. Though i prefer to let dust fall on mine and see people sucking at it. I would have other grief like what people expecting about you in end-game : Idome and Oathbreaker. Other then that your kinda useless.... I'm totally mind numbed



    If you ask me I could not tell you. I can't decide if it's just a perfect storm of not being the primary class of anything. Other than buffing that is. Or if it's the lack luster pet, or what not. I really do not know.

    Your opinion, mine is in orange

    I like the class. It's gotten some what slow to level, but I was told that would be expected.

    Well i jumped back on my champ and guardian a few weeks ago and i may understand why people would rather play the these two - its the lack of "shling" *sword noise* and teh feel of having uber dps or uber survivability (depend on which one) though captain is a good mix between plus the healing

    What do you think?

    Already all answered

    stuff stuff stuff
    Last edited by MorningStarSE; Mar 22 2010 at 08:13 AM.
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  13. #13
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    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    My main alt is a captain, and I'm thinking it's because they're so horribly, horribly boring to solo with. I may be spoiled in having arguably the most fun solo class as my main (warden), but I'm STILL working on getting my captain through Mirkwood because solo questing is SO FREAKING BORING. I suspect a lot of people give up by the time they reach their 30s or so.

    Although skirmishing helps a bit with the horribleness of soloing, I've found. Being your own little three man group is kind of fun (you, herald, soldier).
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  14. #14

    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    Because they are inspired by the Captionation, and since he wont be playing for a while, they are demoralized to role a capt.
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  15. #15
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    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    Our kin is also historically short on captains.

    I think the statement that they "aren't primary anything" is probably a good assumption. I also agree that they are a bore to level - I luckily leveled mine with a kinmate, so it wasn't as bad as it could have been.

    I've play all the classes pretty thoroughly (except Warden) and have to say that playing a good captain is one of the busiest roles in the game. My main is a burg and second is the captain. Both are busy classes when played to full potential. In Moria, cappies often made the difference between struggle and dominate in 6-man content...

    But part of it may also be the lack of respect. I can't count how many times after a smooth run people will call out the mins (or RK) regarding the great heals. Yeah.....um......huh? I was guilty of the same until I started playing a captain and saw how much they can contribute to the state of the green bars.

    It's arguably the least "wow" class around, but I'd rather have one along than not - every time.
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  16. #16
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    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    I love playing with my captain and have no bad times soloing. I will usually run around and gather up about 5 or so on same level mobs and fight them at one time for fun. I don't use a herald or a soldier in skirmishes, nor do I use a herald in regular play. I just use a banner and HoH build with self heal rather than a herald.
    I found it way more fun to play that way rather than with a herald or pet soldier.
    Running around on Windfola I see tons of captains so I assume others are having a good time playing one as well.
    Last edited by adamantiumdragon; Mar 24 2010 at 04:14 PM.
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  17. #17
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    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    Not sure if Captains are the smallest group on Windfola. (Ellendor above says she sees "lots". Do not disagree.) Anecdotally wonder if it is Loremasters maybe Burglars. Could be wrong. Anyways.

    I have friends who play their non-Captain class very well who try out a Captain alt and quit. Similar to what everyone else says. Slow. Boring. Or so it may seem at lower levels. I switched from Hunter main to Captain because I saw a level 30(?) Captain in action and thought "wow".

    I think Captains are the bomb. They are deliciously heroic. Make everything easier. Sometimes save the day.

    Bad pull in 16th Hall... the whole dang room comes after us... people going down fast... oh no we're gonna wipe... throwing out heals... trip LS/IHM... and when the dust clears we have triumphed. Someone types in chat "we are officially b@d@ss". Take no credit because hey it's what we do.

    It is true that generally speaking we are jacks-of-all-trades and masters-of-almost-none. I like supporting the group. I like making everyone beefy. I like helping the healer. I like helping with dps. I like providing what the group needs depending on the situation.

    No I do not have a Hunter alt. Well okay I do but seldom use him. Admit that for a change of pace like to take my Champion out for a spin. Shing shing! Lots of fun. But the Captain is most satisfying.

  18. #18

    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    I started my Captain in closed Beta and took the character over with everything maxed at level 15 with max tradeskills. In other words, I put a lot of work into the character. I knew this game was a grind fest, all of use did. I just dont want to run the same deeds, grinds, quests for other characters. To me that is not fun.

    So I stuck with the Captain. I like the character, dont love it. Every other class is superior in certain aspects, Captain's can do a little bit of everything.

    Here is what I think. Most of the people who play Captains played Paladins or Knights in other games. They want to be the big guy in armor protecting the squishes. That is what I thought about when I first read about the Captain class wayyyyy back in the day.

    The class did not turn out the way I and others envisioned it. Many people made similar posts on Beta boards and once the game went live. I decided to stick it out because I put a lot of work into the character AND we did get better.

    But the class is not what you think a Captain should be when you read the books. In retrospect, I probably should have played a Guardian...I guess I can rry a Warden but I really dont feel like deed grinding, quest grinding, LI grinding, level grinding, IXP grinding, rep grinding.....yea, not fun.

    Captains are gimps. They were not designed correctly for the mechanics of this game. They do not function as well as other classes when it comes to combat management. They feel clunky and slow and no matter what you do there is one class (sometimes two) that do it better than you.

    I love playing my Captain in a full group with a Guardian and a Minstrel. But I am just utility and fill in the gap healing. I wanted this class to be the Leader of Men it sounded like. I wanted it to be a Paladin like class that could tank and heal.

    Didnt turn out that way.

  19. #19
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    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    Took me forever to level my captain on brandywine, but imo it was totaly worth it.

  20. #20
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    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    I leveled my Cappy in a duo with a hunter. Makes a good combo. End game Cappys are great fun and very useful.

  21. #21

    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    Well on Landy we have plenty of Captain, the other day I saw 12 Captains in 21st hall out of the 30 or so people around the Mile Marker
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  22. #22
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    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    i see a few reasons:


    race. many people do not like to play the Human race in video games. i have one good friend who refuses on the grounds that he likes to roleplay what he isnt.


    we lack the big number. gamers like big numbers. like the big crits, the big heals, the big mitigation. even gamers that claim to be all about the challenge will still use the best equipment when possible and try to maximize output. this keeps us from being as glamorous as other classes.


    you need to be (more of) a leader to play this class. you HAVE to talk to your group.


    reactive play. captains usually have to react to what is happening. we control the flow of the fight by dealing with what is presented.


    there are some of my guesses. for me, this is the best class in any MMO i have played.

  23. #23
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    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    I have always been under the impression that anyone can level a captain to 65. That being said if you don't have a full understanding of situations, the class mechanics, the group you are working with, and what to use when then you will fail.

    Anyone can be a captain. Not everyone can be a good captain.
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  24. #24
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    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    Agreed-- being a GOOD captain is a whole 'nother ball of wax!!

    I suspect it is because leveling up a captain solo is S L O W and somewhat frustrating... I think folks give up somewhere between 30 and 50. I struggled with it all the way to 40 and then steadily started to enjoy it more and more.

    I LOVE it now and am told I am one of the better captains around.. (hope it is true!)
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  25. #25
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    Re: Why are Captains low in numbers?

    If you have seen the complaints by many hunters that they can't get groups, etc., having fewer numbers to compete with is actually preferable .
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