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  1. #1
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    Do you think captains can be main tanks?

    Simple question and by main tanks, I mean by tanking the watcher or turtle. I'm asking this because I offered to tank a turtle run where we had no tanks, and the grouped laughed in disbelief.

    Personally, I say yes.

    Opinions?

  2. #2
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    Re: Do you think captains can be main tanks?

    main tank? no but then again I am scared trying to tank on my captain.

  3. #3

    Re: Do you think captains can be main tanks?

    Capts don't have the agro getting skills akin to a guard or a warden. DPS classes would have to hold back a lot to not pull agro, and even healing agro would come into play. Most capts can take hit but can not make sure it keeps hitting em.

  4. #4
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    Re: Do you think captains can be main tanks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Volsi View Post
    Capts don't have the agro getting skills akin to a guard or a warden. DPS classes would have to hold back a lot to not pull agro, and even healing agro would come into play. Most capts can take hit but can not make sure it keeps hitting em.
    Yeah pretty much that. Also, it is very hard to keep AoE aggro if mobs are not dying frequently.
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  5. #5

    Re: Do you think captains can be main tanks?

    with stacked heals, DPS taking it easy, and maybe provoke/SL CD...sure. it'd be a slow burn.

    ^ no healing aggro wouldn't take it, unless you were really sucking lol

    turtle? sure..grave wound force pull is all you need. I've done it before w/two captains tanking. it's not like the turtle hits hard or anything. the whole point of tanking the turtle is to spread the aggro around, and if you have 2 DPS classes (...I'd hope you would) a captain and those two are just fine. turtle is so easy at 65 or even 60 it really doesn't matter anyway.
    Last edited by IGolbezI; Apr 13 2010 at 12:09 AM.
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  6. #6
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    Re: Do you think captains can be main tanks?

    If the captain is able to maintain aggro, he can main tank just fine. They made some changes with SoM, but morale pool is still more important than crit defense or avoidances
    when dealing with spike damage, and captains do fine there.

    The aggro caveat is a bit restrictive, but in your two scenarios is doesn't matter much. In the Turtle you'd only want to tank part-time anyway, so Grave Wound is plenty and actual threat gen. doesn't matter much. For the Watcher you have plenty of time to build aggro while the rest of the group is killing tentacles. Keep Noble Mark up if necessary, switching to Telling/Revealing when the group is focusing on the Watcher itself. Threatening Shout + Grave Wound + attacks and healing aggro should be plenty to keep the squid angry with you.


    Overall though, I see no reason to use a captain as main tank most of the time. Guardians, wardens, and champions tank better in general, and hunters have an easier time holding aggro. If you have none of those classes, sure, a captain tank can get by, but how often does that happen?
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  7. #7
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    Re: Do you think captains can be main tanks?

    Main tanking is possible ONLY for single target tanking over a prolonged period.

    We can tank multiple mobs fine for short periods of time, but with our limited AoEs and the fact marks can only be on 1 target at a time, we will eventually lose other targets to healers (assuming DPS isn't split).
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  8. #8
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    Re: Do you think captains can be main tanks?

    Long and short of it. No way. There is more to tanking than taking a hit. Yes, we can take it, probably the second best class in the game at mitigating damage if traited/geared for it.

    Holding aggro would be our biggest problem. Yanking aggro even worse, since our yanking aggro skills have a long CD.

    For a small fellowship, it's possible on a boss, (not a big one mind you), but as a cappy, you'd need to solo it for a long time to build up an aggro lead before everybody else gets in on the action, and even then, the healer may get the aggro.

    Survive as main tank: yes
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  9. #9
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    Re: Do you think captains can be main tanks?

    In the right situations, yes. If you have the Grave Wound force taunt slotted and use Noble Mark then there's no reason why you can't maintain aggro on a single target above the rest of the group. And generally speaking Captain survivability is good.

    There is a tradeoff though. The Captain can't use Shield brother or WoC on himself, so you lose the benefits of using those skills on the tank. The Captain is also likely not slotted for HoH if he's main tanking, so you lose the benefits of that trait-line as well. And if you're using Noble Mark to help with aggro then you lose the benefits of using Telling/Revealing Mark instead.

  10. #10
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    Re: Do you think captains can be main tanks?

    Captain could main tank watcher easily. You have so much time to build up aggro before people can attack him that our lack of aggro skills won't matter that much.

    That being said, I wouldn't ever tank a boss on my captain. Lack of good shield + Poor mits + poor b/p/e = bad tank.

  11. #11
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    Re: Do you think captains can be main tanks?

    I've tanked GS multiple times now when I was the only non-squishy and held agro with no issues. I've been a "oh ****" tanker too when the main died or something and took over with ease.

    This includes playing with RKs and pew pew pew hunters.

    It's a combo of skills and weapon use to do it, but it can be done and actually pretty easily.

    Takes practice I think mostly, just smashing buttons will not do nor standing there taking a beating. You have to keep up on all your shouts, marks, heals, etc, etc to gain and hold agro.

    In some cases where we have a tank or a say a champ I have actually stolen agro from them and had to give it back to them by stopping.

    I have no uber build or special gear that does this, just moria rad gear and a maxed out 3rd age lvl 59 weapon I really like, it mostly comes down to timing.

  12. #12
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    Re: Do you think captains can be main tanks?

    we can be... but we are still the 3-4 choice, depending on the situation.
    situations that need two tanks to pass aggro back and forth are ideal for two captain

    i tanked every moria instance at lvl 60.

    i have tanked every 3 and 6 man in the game besides SG.
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  13. #13

    Re: Do you think captains can be main tanks?

    2nd best at mitigating damage?? Hardly even close lol, but yes it is possible as far as the two raids that the OP mentioned. obviously your DPS classes have to hold off during the watcher, that goes without saying. but there isn't any reason you shouldn't be able to as long as you hold aggro. if you aren't, you're just not getting good enough heals.
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  14. #14
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    Re: Do you think captains can be main tanks?

    Honestly I think this question is missing the point: if it's a choice between the Captain tanking, or the Hunter tanking, for example, I pick Hunter.

    Last night I did 6 SH runs with me (Captain), a Minstrel, and a Hunter. At first I tried tanking. I was able to hold aggro just fine with the Hunter in S:E but the first boss fight was a bit "unstable". We swapped with the HNT in S:S and things went VERY smooth. With my HoTs ticking on the HNT the MIN was able to contribute to some DPSing.

    I'd previously done SH with 2 CPTs and a RK. Similar situation: I tried to tank at first because I knew I could hold the aggro and the other CPT had not played in a while. But she was not healing spec'd so we swapped. Again with the RK and myself healing (for bosses obviously, not trash) things went very smooth.

    Now, it's not fair of me to say all CPTs should spec HoH. You should play what you enjoy. But back to the original question: in a group situation I think asking "can captains be main tanks?" is missing the point. Why would you want to when any other class can probably do it with you contributing to the healing.
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  15. #15

    Re: Do you think captains can be main tanks?

    Captains can main tank single boss targets fairly well. I've main tanked all the moria and mirkwood 3 and 6man instance bosses on my captain. The problem arises, I feel when there are additional enemies in a fight that your group is ill-equipped to deal with. A good example of this would be if you were the only heavy in your group in 16th Hall or SG and your group lacked proper debuffs or cc. The elites in some of the pulls would quickly go for the healer. The captain may not be an ideal tank, but can hold its own in 3 and 6man instances. Smart groups with a captain tanking can accomplish quite a bit.

  16. #16
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    Re: Do you think captains can be main tanks?

    Ran into a Hunter in the intro instance for Mirkwood (finally got expansion), she sent me a tell when I came up to the orc gate for the wooden fortress telling me how hard it was....

    I kinda LOLed IRL over that as I was tanking and trashing the mobs, we ended up grouping and ran all the quest together. She was VERY glad she bumped into me because of how rough the place was for her. I pretty much tanked the entire way there. She would pull a mob to her while I would take care of any adds (3-5 sometimes). She was 64 while I am 60 too...

    Funny thing is she has a Captain toon as well lol. So yeah tanking can be done even in small fellows if played right, she wasn't holding back either, she was letting loose all the pew pew pew she could drop on the mobs, I just know how to get their attentions I guess.

  17. #17

    Re: Do you think captains can be main tanks?

    Quote Originally Posted by King_Numenorean View Post
    Simple question and by main tanks, I mean by tanking the watcher or turtle. I'm asking this because I offered to tank a turtle run where we had no tanks, and the grouped laughed in disbelief.

    Personally, I say yes.

    Opinions?
    I am not sure. In my 3 years as captain I have not ever completely traited for tanking, so I couldn't tell you.

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  18. #18

    Re: Do you think captains can be main tanks?

    I think Captain's can tank in a duo taking on one or two mobs well enough. Beyond that captain's don't have enough skill to maintain AoE aggro. But in larger groups this isn't what the captain's are necessarily built to do so its ok.

  19. #19

    Re: Do you think captains can be main tanks?

    Holding aggro != tanking.

    A Captain MT would need another Captain with a maxed Strength of Will, a very nice 2a 1h with a shield(crit protection), an emblem with maxed SL/GW legacies, stacked melee defense and incoming healing, 5/2 LtC, a proper skill rotation, ires, provokes, complete set of debuffs and power sharing from an LM, proper tanking jewelry, radiance armour with the appropriate set bonus mitigations, and a good head start.

    That's for Watcher. I tried tanking it in a 6man attempt without most of that, and failed pretty quickly. I held aggro, sure, but I couldn't be kept up while the rest of the group died to AoEs.

    So just like for Captain main-healing, Captain main-tanking can work if the group plays around it. The question is: does the group think it's worth trying to make it work?...
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  20. #20

    Re: Do you think captains can be main tanks?

    I have tanked SH on my Captain, traited 5 in Lead the Charge (Renewed Voice, Expert Attacks, Battle-master, Intimidation, and Focused Strikes) and 2 in Leader of Men (Captain of War, Captain's Victory). I don't have Lead the charge legendary though, and that obviously would have helped. I gained agro from sight and a Threatening Shout and used Noble Mark on the mob I wanted to focus on. The team of 2 Runekeepers had to go light on dps, but we made it though without any real problem.

    The key seems to be having a couple of seconds to establish agro before the group joins in. Keep grave wound in reserve for when you need to force taunt. Also, make sure that your team builds up to their dps. It's fine for them to nuke at the end, but starting off with a large crit will be hard to overcome.

  21. #21
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    Re: Do you think captains can be main tanks?

    I haven't tanked with my captain since MoM first came out and Noble Mark was bugged to give instant perma-aggro lol.

    I could see Captain's tanking non-instance stuff, but for raids and/or lots of adds type situations, I just don't see it being successful.

    Edit: I actually haven't done too many 3 man instances, but my Cappy has been MT in those. I was talking more about 6-12 man type stuff.
    Last edited by felfalas; Apr 22 2010 at 03:52 PM.
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  22. #22
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    Re: Do you think captains can be main tanks?

    Quote Originally Posted by King_Numenorean View Post
    Simple question and by main tanks, I mean by tanking the watcher or turtle. I'm asking this because I offered to tank a turtle run where we had no tanks, and the grouped laughed in disbelief.

    Personally, I say yes.

    Opinions?

    Not sure about the new content, but i was MTing the Rift back in SOA and some Moria isntance ( my captain is taking dust atm, i dont play anymore) , so I would say yes, though it require excellent knowledge of the classes and the encounter. About aggro management, well it depends on how good you and your teamate are able to play together.. Do i have to say that most people suck at aggro management ?

    People laugh because most of them doesn`t know a **** about captain minus Idome. And this still occuring even after a 3y... sad..
    Last edited by MorningStarSE; Apr 22 2010 at 03:35 PM.
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  23. #23
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    Re: Do you think captains can be main tanks?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDaniel9 View Post
    I have tanked SH on my Captain, traited 5 in Lead the Charge (Renewed Voice, Expert Attacks, Battle-master, Intimidation, and Focused Strikes) and 2 in Leader of Men (Captain of War, Captain's Victory). I don't have Lead the charge legendary though, and that obviously would have helped. I gained agro from sight and a Threatening Shout and used Noble Mark on the mob I wanted to focus on. The team of 2 Runekeepers had to go light on dps, but we made it though without any real problem.

    The key seems to be having a couple of seconds to establish agro before the group joins in. Keep grave wound in reserve for when you need to force taunt. Also, make sure that your team builds up to their dps. It's fine for them to nuke at the end, but starting off with a large crit will be hard to overcome.
    There should be no real problem with a captain tanking 3-man content. I can easily tank warg pens hard mode. I used to tank Nala Dum and the hall of mirrors with little trouble, but it helps to have some crowd control for the multi-mob pulls, just a hunter with rain of thorns is enough. It should be easier these days with PA hitting up to 7 targets and Rallying Cry available every 15 seconds, 8 if you have the right gear.

    I have never had a problem with an RK pulling aggro off me. RK's have good aggro management skills. Hunters, on the other hand, have junk for aggro management and their trait builds for DPS just amplify their aggro to stupid levels. Even the guardians I run with get pissed when a hunter opens with Heart Seeker.
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  24. #24
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    Re: Do you think captains can be main tanks?

    Quote Originally Posted by SGWB View Post
    Even the guardians I run with get pissed when a hunter opens with Heart Seeker.
    Uh...no hunter should be opening with Heartseeker in a group unless they are specifically trying to pull it's threat in a planned fashion. Hunters...

    Anyway, Captains will never be able to tank like a Guardian or Warden, but if the group you are with is good enough, you can have a lot of success with a Captain tanking.

  25. #25
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    Re: Do you think captains can be main tanks?

    Quote Originally Posted by SGWB View Post
    Hunters, on the other hand, have junk for aggro management and their trait builds for DPS just amplify their aggro to stupid levels.

    Well, i remember running old GA with people and i was some level above them and on strength stance.. I rarely got the aggro, but there are explanation for that.

    1- The mobs died before getting to us.
    2- I did not spam the skills like a crazy.


    Its just a question about knowing what you are doing
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