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  1. #26
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    What about returning to crafted weapons?


    Im just saying

  2. #27
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    There's a lot of good ideas on this thread, and I agree with many of them.


    I am torn on the Legendary Item system. To be honest I love getting the first LI at level 45. I love that it feels legendary because it is the very best weapon you can get for awhile. This love fades when it is better to decon your Shiny LI at 51 or 53 for more DPS even though you get poor legacies. Even so, I'm not totally against this. Picking up something *new* is part of the appeal of MMO/RPG games. If you didn't get something new people would be in an uproar about how the games not progressing, they don't give us new stuff, yada yada etc.

    Moving on, I'm not sure that the current grind is quite as bad as it's being described as opposed to the MoM LI's (though I do agree it is bad). The difference is that in MoM you would have to go through tons and tons of LI's to get something that was even usable. I once went through 50+ tablets to get a two-hander for my champ. THAT was ridiculous. That was the grind in MoM. With SoM though the ID is top heavy on the good legacies, so you have a vastly superior chance of getting a usable LI sooner. I was quite surprised that it really didn't take me very long to find usable LI's on my hunter, captain, and champ.
    The real difference is where the time put into the LI is spent. Previously it was just finding the perfect LI, and everyone complained about how random the system was and it took forever to find a decent one. Now it doesn't take too long to find a decent one but to make it *good* you have to put a lot of time into it. Essentially we traded pure chance for more of a grind. Whether that is good or bad is subjective upon who you ask.

    Once you have your LI how good you want it to be is your choice. I have taken on the stance like many others that it only needs to be *good enough*, which is completely subjective to what I consider good enough is. On my hunter's bow it was having both focus and induction crit legs at tier 6. I still have his level 60 first age spear. Haven't cared to switch it yet because you know what: it's good enough for now. On my captain I was actually quite pleased to be able to max out my lvl 60 SA emblem. The thing is amazing, and won't get switched for a 65 anytime soon.

    My serious complaint though with the progression path for LI's now is it's primarily skirmish based. That's silly to me. The cost of medallions to do the same thing is absurd. What happened to having multiple paths to an end goal? It's the illusion of choice, which is not a real choice.

    Finally, I really do agree that we should get more out of the current LI's when we have to ditch them for newer ones. A 59/60 is virtually useless in an upgrade path to a 65 and that kinda goes against the whole "grows with you" purpose of LI's.

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  3. #28
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    Unhappy Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    When the system was new, the grind was understandable. With every new itemization of the LI system (higher levels, better Ages) it will get a little more ridiculous.

    The first iteration saw LI's that could ID with pretty sweet tiers, albeit more meh (now Pool B) legacies. I was fine with that because Second Age level 60's were pretty easy to get, they ID'd with lots of legacies and the tiers were often pretty stellar. Getting a good one was not that hard, it required minimal dedication, really - and easily-obtained resources.

    Then cometh SoM and my champion's First Age Axe is not only nerfed outright (normalized DPS, not my racial) but it's also weaker than a lvl 63 3rd Age. So then I start my level 65 search and find most weapons ID-ing with 2 or 3 legacies and usually tier 1-3 legacies. Not to mention, the last new legacy in the first iteration of the system was always a Tier 6. No longer.

    Something has to be done.

    If it continues along this horrible path of grindage, it will only make a broken system more broken. Attn Devs: IT IS NOT FUN! The old system had a grind and people complained, but it was not nearly as bad as what exists now. I would much rather have LI's 1.0 than LI's 2.0. Some degree of grind is to be expected, and I don't expect tier 6's on every LI. It's really not that big of a deal, but don't make me devote time to (futile) attempts on the "ideal" legacies that used to be possible and then stack another grind on top of it.

    As the OP stated, by upping the potential player investment like they have, they need to up the return on the investment once you are confronted with an "obvious" choice - upgrading. In all sincerity, the system needs to be reworked something fierce. It was an implementation with apparently shallow foresight. The worst part about it is the changes with SoM only made it worse. So you can max out your tiers (assuming you even get all the ones you want, which is rare) but you have to invest about 3-4 hours of play time to raise the tier on a legacy. Not really better. It's a carrot on the end of a reeeeeeeallly loooooong stick.

    It seems like a substitute for real content. More content, less grind.
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  4. #29
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurin View Post
    At this point, I think a lot of people are choosing not to engage in improving their legendary items at all via scrolls of empowerment and skirmishing. . . because they know that untold hours and hours could be utterly wasted if they find a better weapon next week. Whether that weapon be a 2nd Age, a newly introduced First Age, or even just a Third Age with one additional legacy that they want.

    You really have to commit to an item and wait for one you can't possibly imagine topping before engaging with the new system of increasing legacy tiers via scrolls. And even in that case, you know that under the current system, it's all for naught eventually when they introduce level 70 items.

    That's a recipe for despair and frustration.
    Experience has shown that saving those scrolls might be a waste of them, though. During Moria, a friend of mine was stockpiling runes in anticipation of finding the ultimate Captain LI. A good strategy, I certainly couldn't fault him for it. But then Mirkwood came out, and all those stockpiled runes became alot less usefull.

    I hesitate to overstate by calling them useless, since they were still good for helping with the relic grind.

    Considering that, its entirely possible those unused scrolls of empowerment could become obsolete in a similar way at the next level cap. Sorry to be a downer, its just how I view the system now after seeing the way it went down Moria to Mirkwood. Better to use it than to lose it.
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  5. #30
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurin View Post
    At this point, I think a lot of people are choosing not to engage in improving their legendary items at all via scrolls of empowerment and skirmishing. . . because they know that untold hours and hours could be utterly wasted if they find a better weapon next week. Whether that weapon be a 2nd Age, a newly introduced First Age, or even just a Third Age with one additional legacy that they want.

    You really have to commit to an item and wait for one you can't possibly imagine topping before engaging with the new system of increasing legacy tiers via scrolls. And even in that case, you know that under the current system, it's all for naught eventually when they introduce level 70 items.

    That's a recipe for despair and frustration.
    That's my perspective. I couple this view with the realization that by and large, the only time that grinding up an LI is worth considering is at level cap since just about any weapon prior is going to obsolete at the next level, which is of course (ironically) the time I wouldn't even consider grinding up the weapon anymore. Why grind on a weapon when there's nothing else that having a better weapon helps? It's the same reason I don't go after any of the top armors and such - I just don't see the point of grinding a particularly difficult area for superior armor if I didn't need that level of armor to do that difficult area to begin with. Oh...but you say that once I get the armor I can do even more difficult areas that really do need that armor. Ok...but then what I am getting for doing those areas? An item that becomes obsolete? Inferior armor to the stuff I needed to get in?

    I'm sure that makes sense to someone, but it just escapes me.

    Don't get me wrong, I did enjoy some of the Rad run areas and some of the Raid areas - they are really well designed and fun places to go. I just have no interest in doing them 27 times or more for something I can't even hang on a wall anywhere.
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  6. #31
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Well, as long as Turbine is stomping all over lore by having us reforge second-age weapons and items, why not let us reforge level 60 LIs into level 65 LIs? Why not let us reforge level 65 LIs into level 70 LIs?

    Maybe the reforged weapon starts over at IXP level 1 after reforging the weapon/item, but at least the special properties of the weapon/item (the legacies) could be retained (though needing to be leveled up again).

    Makes more sense than melting them down into slag... such an approach would fit into the context of what the game already has with weaponsmiths (and other crafters, for class items) reforging weapons from shards; add some recipes and make crafting useful again. Starting the IXP level back at level 1 retains the grind, keeping the bean-counters at Turbine happy, while probably making a lot of players a lot happier.

    Take it a step further -- let players reforge weapons and items at any level up to a higher level (e.g., the level of the player at the time), retaining legacies AND tier level, but requiring releveling the weapon/item and legacies. The only thing that would change would be the DPS, adjusted to the player level on each reforge. Get rid of scrolls of empowerment and scrolls of Delving, since weapon/item tiers could be increased after a reforge as the weapon/item levels up again. In that fashion, the weapon/item could literally grow with the player; like the Phoenix, being reborn with each new reforge; and there would still be plenty of grind.
    Last edited by Kreegan; Mar 24 2010 at 01:41 PM. Reason: clarity
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  7. #32
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreegan View Post
    Well, as long as Turbine is stomping all over lore by having us reforge second-age weapons and items, why not let us reforge level 60 LIs into level 65 LIs? Why not let us reforge level 65 LIs into level 70 LIs?

    Maybe the reforged weapon starts over at IXP level 1 after reforging the weapon/item, but at least the special properties of the weapon/item (the legacies) could be retained (though needing to be leveled up again).

    Makes more sense than melting them down into slag... such an approach would fit into the context of what the game already has with weaponsmiths (and other crafters, for class items) reforging weapons from shards; add some recipes and make crafting useful again. Starting the IXP level back at level 1 retains the grind, keeping the bean-counters at Turbine happy, while probably making a lot of players a lot happier.

    Take it a step further -- let players reforge weapons and items at any level up to a higher level (e.g., the level of the player at the time), retaining legacies AND tier level, but requiring releveling the weapon/item and legacies. The only thing that would change would be the DPS, adjusted to the player level on each reforge. Get rid of scrolls of empowerment and scrolls of Delving, since weapon/item tiers could be increased after a reforge as the weapon/item levels up again. In that fashion, the weapon/item could literally grow with the player; like the Phoenix, being reborn with each new reforge; and there would still be plenty of grind.
    I think this is a great idea and have always thought along similar lines. I would also add that there SHOULD be an incentive to occasionally make you want a new weapon as well.

    For example, let's assume your idea was implemented when SoM went live and I have a 1st age bow that I want to keep. I could then choose undertake the (massive) IXP grind to level it up to max over and over until it hits level 65 with me. Taking this path, I have some work to do and am in pretty good shape at the end of the road. Alternatively, I could move to the "newer" LIs that start at 61-65 to get the extra perk that comes with them. What is that perk? - the 4th relic slot.

    When gen3 LIs (level 70?) are introduced, simply give me a way to upgrade gen1 to gen2 (ie add the 4th relic slot to my 1st age bow from Moria) and the system can perpetuate forever. People can choose to grind and keep the weapon they love at a tradeoff when they hit cap (more dps on 1st age bow vs 4th slot) or they can put in the amount of grind we have now and aim for the tip top of the ladder... either way works.

    This whole idea is intended to stimulate discussion/brainstorming - I am not suggesting "this is exactly the way to do it".
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  8. #33

    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreegan View Post
    Well, as long as Turbine is stomping all over lore by having us reforge second-age weapons and items, why not let us reforge level 60 LIs into level 65 LIs? Why not let us reforge level 65 LIs into level 70 LIs?

    Maybe the reforged weapon starts over at IXP level 1 after reforging the weapon/item, but at least the special properties of the weapon/item (the legacies) could be retained (though needing to be leveled up again).

    Makes more sense than melting them down into slag... such an approach would fit into the context of what the game already has with weaponsmiths (and other crafters, for class items) reforging weapons from shards; add some recipes and make crafting useful again. Starting the IXP level back at level 1 retains the grind, keeping the bean-counters at Turbine happy, while probably making a lot of players a lot happier.

    Take it a step further -- let players reforge weapons and items at any level up to a higher level (e.g., the level of the player at the time), retaining legacies AND tier level, but requiring releveling the weapon/item and legacies. The only thing that would change would be the DPS, adjusted to the player level on each reforge. Get rid of scrolls of empowerment and scrolls of Delving, since weapon/item tiers could be increased after a reforge as the weapon/item levels up again. In that fashion, the weapon/item could literally grow with the player; like the Phoenix, being reborn with each new reforge; and there would still be plenty of grind.
    Whoa, we're both dwarves; we're both guardians; we have the same idea -- are we the same person??

    almost to the "T" what I was thinking.

    /signed

    or was thinking make LI xp twice as much as character xp. I don't really care, just don't make me have to redo it all over and over and over with a different weapon. I don't mind the grind with a weapon I want, I absolutely HATE the grind with a weapon I DON'T want.

    For example, all I want is an axe -- plain and simple. I don't even care that much about the legacies. I had a really nice 2nd age axe that I wanted to keep, but NOOOOOO. I couldn't increase the base level dps, so I had to buy a 3rd age off the AH (couldn't even find one in the open world). That's the kind of stuff that "grinds" me (pun intended)!!

    Oh, and now that I'm irritated with having to re-grind another axe, I named the new one "Axe to Grind". Whereas, my previously really nice axe had a cool name and in honor of that weapon I refuse to use that name again on a lesser quality LI.

  9. #34
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Hurin I am curious how this thread should be viewed by Turbine given your signature:

    "The surest way to ruin an MMORPG is to give the clamoring masses exactly what they want. "

    If the next expansion raises the level cap, then there will be higher level LI's to match that cap. Is it really about starting over with a new weap? Or is it about the grind to get your new weap to max performance? Perhaps if Turbine made the "maxing out" process easier, we would be less concerned about porting our efforts over to the next weapon.

    The one reason why I agree with most of what you are saying is because most of us casual players will never see a maxed weapon. Its just too many hours of grinding to achieve - and we would rather play the game instead.
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  10. #35
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunal View Post
    Experience has shown that saving those scrolls might be a waste of them, though. . . Considering that, its entirely possible those unused scrolls of empowerment could become obsolete in a similar way at the next level cap. Sorry to be a downer, its just how I view the system now after seeing the way it went down Moria to Mirkwood. Better to use it than to lose it.
    I hate to keep saying this, but again, I think you're missing the point or arriving at points that aren't actually relevant to what we're saying.

    Who's talking about saving scrolls? Who's going to have these "unused scrolls" lying around only to become obsolete.

    We're talking about the scrolls we grind out through repetitive skirmish runs for the very purpose of getting scrolls in order to increase the tiers on our legendary items. And those scrolls we tend to use. Sure, we also get a scroll or two from epic quests as a one-off. But we're really discussing how much of our current grinding is now non-refundable since the scrolls go into the legendary items, but don't ever come back out in any way (unlike relics or IXP).

    And, as others have also pointed out, because we're talking about so much grinding for scrolls, and no ability to get any of them returned to us upon decon, many people are electing not to grind out the scrolls at all. So, people aren't grinding out the scrolls and electing not to use them, they're just deciding not to take part in skirmishes and earn the scrolls in the first place.

    I don't think anyone is talking about storing up large amounts of unused scrolls. So I'm not sure where your post fits into the discussion.
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  11. #36
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Quote Originally Posted by EV4D View Post
    Hurin I am curious how this thread should be viewed by Turbine given your signature:

    "The surest way to ruin an MMORPG is to give the clamoring masses exactly what they want. "
    That quote is more directed at the threads where people demand "something for nothing" or make unreasonable demands without thinking through possible unintended consequences or game-wide, long-term repercussions. And then when such concerns are brought up by others, the response tends to be: "Why don't you want to give me what I want!?! It would be so cool!?! I'm a paying customer. Gimme!"

    Now, there may be valid long-term design and/or even business reasons why giving us back some of our "scroll grinding" doesn't make sense and shouldn't be done. Though, I hasten to add, the partial refunding of IXP does set a precedent for it.

    But if that's the case, I'm all ears. It may be that this is intentionally a grind that we must repeat each time we get an item we like. This may be by design and intended to be a timesink to keep us playing the game. However, if that is the case, much like the original radiance gating design, I would argue that they have honestly miscalculated and that the grind is so excessive as to demoralize a substantial number of players. So I'd argue that this would need adjustment.

    That's not quite the same thing as writing: "Why should GRDs get x when CHMPs don't!?! We should get it too! Gimme!"
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  12. #37
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurin View Post
    I hate to keep saying this, but again, I think you're missing the point or arriving at points that aren't actually relevant to what we're saying.

    Who's talking about saving scrolls? Who's going to have these "unused scrolls" lying around only to become obsolete.

    We're talking about the scrolls we grind out through repetitive skirmish runs for the very purpose of getting scrolls in order to increase the tiers on our legendary items. And those scrolls we tend to use. Sure, we also get a scroll or two from epic quests as a one-off. But we're really discussing how much of our current grinding is now non-refundable since the scrolls go into the legendary items, but don't ever come back out in any way (unlike relics or IXP).

    And, as others have also pointed out, because we're talking about so much grinding for scrolls, and no ability to get any of them returned to us upon decon, many people are electing not to grind out the scrolls at all. So, people aren't grinding out the scrolls and electing not to use them, they're just deciding not to take part in skirmishes and earn the scrolls in the first place.

    I don't think anyone is talking about storing up large amounts of unused scrolls. So I'm not sure where your post fits into the discussion.
    What I was trying to say there obviously failed miserably, so let me try another tack. The skirmish points are a different "currency" than the scrolls. There is no reason to think that skirmish marks will become obsolete, unlike the scrolls.

    Consequently I don't link the two systems. In a future expansion, who is to say that a lvl 70 LI scroll of empowerment couldn't be purchased via skirmish marks? Or a level 75 scroll? Enjoy skirmishing and engage the scroll system if and only if you have attained the perfect LI (or one that is close enough) and want to spend the marks. Otherwise, its better to sit on the "currency" of skirmish marks rather than the "currency" of scrolls of empowerment. Fair enough?

    Skirmish marks could be an awfully effective way of maintaining the value across level upgrades. Maybe a player could be able to turn in a maxed LI for relics, XP runes and skirmish marks, for instance. Then the player gets to choose what scrolls they need to buy for the next LI.

    And yes it was frustrating how the LI system moved from Moria to Mirkwood. No one here has been disputing that.
    Last edited by Lunal; Mar 24 2010 at 07:20 PM.
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  13. #38

    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    I think it was a mistake to introduce a second type of IXP rune. I dont think that people would complain as much if they could have used their IXP rune they got from their level 60 LI on their new level 65 LI. When I deconned my level 60 LIs on my guardian, I looked at them and thought, 'what am I going to do with these?'. thankfully, I had a large stack of kudzul tablets, and after trading in all of them, and applying the runes and deconning the LI, I had a nice large stack of relics to combine. That was ok, but I would have rather used it on my level 65 LI.

    What's next, a Northern Mirkwood IXP rune, then an Eriador IXP rune, an Enedwaith IXP rune, a Rohan IXP rune, a fields of pelennor IXP, a Minas Tirith IXP rune, and then a Mordor IXP rune? That seems a bit excessive.

    It Turbine had not introduced a new IXP rune, the transition to LI 2.0 would have felt more seemless, and wouldn't have felt like we were forced to start all over again.

    Next time the level cap is raised, let us use our IXP runes from our 65s on our 75s. Don't introduce yet another different IXP rune that can only be used on 66-75 LIs.

    As an aside, I think that upon decon of a maxed out LI, you should be able to get back a legacy scroll that you can use to exchange a legacy on a LI on-level or below. For instance, on your level 65 guardian belt you have the shield damage legacy, but no other legacies you like, you should be able to get a legacy scroll for shield damage (starting out at tier 4) to use on another level 65 (or below) LI when you decon it at level 70 (yes, you will have to use a scroll of delving to get the legacy scroll). This will alleviate some of the frustration with finding a LI with legacies you like, yet still have a good sized grind associated with LIs.
    Last edited by macdadg; Mar 25 2010 at 11:49 AM.

  14. #39
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    I for one, have put zero effort into grinding new LIs. Fool me once shame on you, I won't get fooled again.
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  15. #40
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Quote Originally Posted by macdadg View Post
    I think it was a mistake to introduce a second type of IXP rune. I dont think that people would complain as much if they could have used their IXP rune they got from their level 60 LI on their new level 65 LI. When I deconned my level 60 LIs on my guardian, I looked at them and thought, 'what am I going to do with these?'. thankfully, I had a large stack of kudzul tablets, and after trading in all of them, and applying the runes and deconning the LI, I had a nice large stack of relics to combine. That was ok, but I would have rather used it on my level 65 LI.

    What's next, a Northern Mirkwood IXP rune, then an Eriador IXP rune, an Enedwaith IXP rune, a Rohan IXP rune, a fields of pelennor IXP, a Minas Tirith IXP rune, and then a Mordor IXP rune? That seems a bit excessive.

    It Turbine had not introduced a new IXP rune, the transition to LI 2.0 would have felt more seemless, and wouldn't have felt like we were forced to start all over again.

    Next time the level cap is raised, let us use our IXP runes from our 65s on our 75s. Don't introduce yet another different IXP rune that can only be used on 66-75 LIs.

    As an aside, I think that upon decon of a maxed out LI, you should be able to get back a legacy scroll that you can use to exchange a legacy on a LI on-level or below. For instance, on your level 65 guardian belt you have the shield damage legacy, but no other legacies you like, you should be able to get a legacy scroll for shield damage (starting out at tier 4) to use on another level 65 (or below) LI when you decon it at level 70 (yes, you will have to use a scroll of delving to get the legacy scroll). This will alleviate some of the frustration with finding a LI with legacies you like, yet still have a good sized grind associated with LIs.
    I always knew those damn bounties would screw everything up, it was just too easy.
    [center][charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0a20b0000000369e1/01001/signature.png]Manhandsmagee[/charsig]
    [/center]

  16. #41
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Quote Originally Posted by BroadwayJizzie View Post
    I for one, have put zero effort into grinding new LIs. Fool me once shame on you, I won't get fooled again.
    +1.

    I refuse to put any exceptional effort into it at least until we see what changes are coming with the update when they introduce lvl 65 1st Age LI's. I just can't bring myself to grind endless skirmish marks for scrolls of empowerment on an item that is almost guaranteed to be obsolete before summer.
    [color=#CC3333][B][SIZE="3"]W[/SIZE]ESSLEY [SIZE="3"]G[/SIZE]RAYSON[/B] (lvl 66 LM Man, SM Jeweller)[/color]
    [color=#33CCFF][B][SIZE="3"]L[/SIZE]ITTLBIT [SIZE="3"]O[/SIZE]LUVIN[/B] (lvl 66 Minstrel Hobbit, SM Scholar)[/color]
    [color=#66FF66][B][SIZE="3"]G[/SIZE]RAYTHANDOR[/B] (lvl 54 Hunter Elf, R4, GM Tailor)[/color]
    [color=white] Nimrodel[/color]

  17. #42
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    Feb 2007
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Graythandor View Post
    +1.

    I refuse to put any exceptional effort into it at least until we see what changes are coming with the update when they introduce lvl 65 1st Age LI's. I just can't bring myself to grind endless skirmish marks for scrolls of empowerment on an item that is almost guaranteed to be obsolete before summer.

    Bingo.




    Or alts for me. I'd rather play other games than level an alt just to hit the LI wall. Or, open the door and bask in the heat of our mother star.
    [COLOR=CYAN][SIZE=3]Hat Beerbane, Former .xls Wizard and Hunter Blogger[/SIZE]
    [/color]

  18. #43
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    Jun 2007
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Quote Originally Posted by macdadg View Post
    It Turbine had not introduced a new IXP rune, the transition to LI 2.0 would have felt more seemless, and wouldn't have felt like we were forced to start all over again.
    Just thinking out loud here.... If Turbine had done what you asked, then wouldn't everyone have maxed out level 65 weapons in the first few weeks of play? I know I had three LI's maxed coming out of Moria, so to level up to 65 (takes a week) and then find a decent 3rd age LI (takes another week), I could just dump my IXP into it from the older weapons and hardly needed to level it up. Not sure that approach makes sense either.

    I agree the multiple IXP runes are annoying and weird - and I agree with you that they better not continue this practice or its going to be very confusing. But I am still wrestling with a better way to handle it.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/07206000000040366/signature.png]Evad[/charsig]
    [color=silver][i]"Intelligence is my bow, cunning are my arrows, and wisdom is my armor"[/i][/color]
    [color=lightgreen][b]If you experience a lag spike in real life, would you notice?[/b][/color]

  19. #44
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    What would happen if they didn't introduce higher level LI's but made it so you could increase the level of your current LI's by scrolls, reshaping, tokens, whatever.

    That would seem to be a scaleable solution that would grow as the game grows. Does anyone think this idea has merit? Would you prevent any LI from dropping as loot above 65 or still allow that to happen so you can grow your old weapon while still looking for a new one?
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/07206000000040366/signature.png]Evad[/charsig]
    [color=silver][i]"Intelligence is my bow, cunning are my arrows, and wisdom is my armor"[/i][/color]
    [color=lightgreen][b]If you experience a lag spike in real life, would you notice?[/b][/color]

  20. #45
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Quote Originally Posted by EV4D View Post
    Just thinking out loud here.... If Turbine had done what you asked, then wouldn't everyone have maxed out level 65 weapons in the first few weeks of play? I know I had three LI's maxed coming out of Moria, so to level up to 65 (takes a week) and then find a decent 3rd age LI (takes another week), I could just dump my IXP into it from the older weapons and hardly needed to level it up. Not sure that approach makes sense either.

    I agree the multiple IXP runes are annoying and weird - and I agree with you that they better not continue this practice or its going to be very confusing. But I am still wrestling with a better way to handle it.
    Indeed, clearly one goal of giving us different runes was to make it so that we had to put some effort into the new LIs. From Turbine's perspective, the LI system wouldn't be serving its purpose of keeping us entertained long-term if we didn't have to "engage the system" once again from time to time. A system that we use only once or twice and then "coast" thereafter isn't a good investment of development resources.

    And, let's not be silly enough to think that they didn't know the Mirkwood IXP runes were going to be introduced when they gave us the old-rune bounty quests just a few months prior. Indeed, they never would have given us those freebie IXP runes if they didn't know that we'd all be eventually moving up to higher-level LIs where they wouldn't apply. So, I think of the bounty quests as a fun little "last hurrah" that they gave us as the old LI system winded down. I don't see it as anything to get upset over or the cause of any of the current issues.

    Having said all that, I really do believe the pendulum has swung way too far towards the LI system being unnecessarily grind-tastic. In my view, giving us some means of getting (some portion of) our scrolls of empowerment back upon decon would go a long way towards making the LI system a viable system for me again. Because at this point, I can't imagine grinding out any more scrolls/legacies knowing full well that they're destined to disappear into the ether if I ever find a better item or the level cap renders my current one obsolete.

    Best Regards,

    H
    "I went to the trouble and expense of driving my old Honda Civic into a lake to try to prove to you that it won't float. . . only to have you respond: 'Hmmm, interesting. . . would you be willing to drive a Honda Accord into the lake?'"

  21. #46

    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Quote Originally Posted by EV4D View Post
    Just thinking out loud here.... If Turbine had done what you asked, then wouldn't everyone have maxed out level 65 weapons in the first few weeks of play? I know I had three LI's maxed coming out of Moria, so to level up to 65 (takes a week) and then find a decent 3rd age LI (takes another week), I could just dump my IXP into it from the older weapons and hardly needed to level it up. Not sure that approach makes sense either.

    I agree the multiple IXP runes are annoying and weird - and I agree with you that they better not continue this practice or its going to be very confusing. But I am still wrestling with a better way to handle it.
    I had a maxed 65 belt and sword within a month of SoM release. I was very lucky and won the LI lottery with legacies I liked very early. I maxed it out doing SH runs with friends and kinnies. It is trivial to max out a LI to 70.

    With the LI lottery, it takes far longer to find a LI with 4+ legacies you like than it does to max one out.

    What harm to the grind would it have been to be able to use Moria IXP runes on Mirkwood weapons? I can only speculate, but I can't imagine it would be game breaking.

    If they were really concerned about it, they would lengthen the IXP levels back to where they were previously, so you'd need more IXP to max a weapon. I would have preferred that, to have a bigger grind from 50-70 so I could use my Moria IXP runes on my Mirkwood LI.

  22. #47
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    Jan 2007
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    427

    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurin View Post
    And, let's not be silly enough to think that they didn't know the Mirkwood IXP runes were going to be introduced when they gave us the old-rune bounty quests just a few months prior. Indeed, they never would have given us those freebie IXP runes if they didn't know that we'd all be eventually moving up to higher-level LIs where they wouldn't apply. So, I think of the bounty quests as a fun little "last hurrah" that they gave us as the old LI system winded down. I don't see it as anything to get upset over or the cause of any of the current issues.
    Do not assume with a company like Turbine that the left hand knows what the right hand is doing. Heck, the devs who write the quests don't even design the rewards for them in most cases...
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/04208000000020743/signature.png]Tarien[/charsig]

  23. #48

    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Actually, from SoM going forward, I think it would be perfectly reasonable for any deconned lvl 61+ LI to provide a useable IXP rune for future LIs. It makes perfect sense as part of the big gear "reset". Part of the reason they didn't have the Moira LIs carry over is because of the bounty quests. Everyone could just go max out their lvl 59/60 LI in a day's time (under the new SoM LI progression table), decon, then plow that into their SoM LI - not saying they shouldn't allow that but it was certainly a factor.

    So, they could disable the bounties altogether and thus have people grinding the lower level LIs the same as SoM LIs or keep the bounties and have dimished return on IXP runes to "encourage" people to transition.

    Perhaps they could do something like this with the next expansion:

    Let's say level cap is raised to 80.

    1. you have to complete a quest/series of quests to gain an item that let's you raise the level cap of your weapon (NOT IXP level) by +<n> levels. Obviously, you would want to level your toon first before leveling the LI or it would be unuseable.

    2. level cap is raised, DPS obviously goes up with level, BUT in doing so you would keep your legacies but the powerful magicks involved would randomly lower some/all of your legacy tiers, reset those legacies affect to their default value and return the points.

    3. still having your legacies, but with lower legacy tiers you could grind (again) but this time as a result of having a higher level cap your max level of efficacy for skills is also raised 1-3%.

    EXAMPLE: my 3rd age lvl 65 LM staff currently has a T6 legacy maxed for +10% Tactical Skill damage. Level cap has been raised to 80.

    I do quest/quests/run and get item/items to raise my LI's level cap. I raise it to 80.

    My DPS goes up, yay!
    My T6 +10% Tactical Skills damage gets a bit of bad luck, drops to T2 (boooooo!), resets my legacy modifier to the base +1% and returns my points. The legacy modifier now has a new maximum of +13% with costs that scale to that. Of course, it's time to get my scrolls of empowerment, raise that tier, invest my points and raise it back up. Points returned would never be enough to get it to max right away and maybe the scaling would also be increased so that even if I had 4 scrolls saved up and instantly maxed this legacy to T6, i may not have enough points to get it to the previous 10% or to the new max of 13% without raising other tiers.

    Just an idea...not perfect, wrote it in 10 min after only having my first cup of coffee.

    The idea is that you get to keep the LI, keep the legacies but still would have to grind some to make it powerful again AND you would benefit by doing so because the modifier would be increased.
    [B][COLOR=cyan][charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/06205000000039d09/signature.png]Viloxus[/charsig]
    8-time Grand Champion Guinness Drinker[/COLOR][/B]
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  24. #49
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    Wisconsin
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    71

    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    They don't need to create any portable benefit.All they need to do is to rework the LI system so that the weapons themselves never become obsolete. The way I see it working:

    1) Make the system so that LI max level=current character level. This will allow the system to work as originally advertised - an item that grows with our character. The LIs would then scale with us, so there would be no more arbitrary level cutoffs for LIs when a new expansion comes out.

    2) Scale the legacies so that they keep going beyond the current max levels. In other words, rather than having 7 or 8 ranks per legacy, make them go on ad naseum. This would remove the need to constantly re-roll your LIs just for the DPS increase.

    2a) So that you can't just sink all your points into DPS or a particularly good legacy, maybe make it so these additional ranks are gated behind the legacy tier. In other words, if you have a tier 1 legacy, the maximum number of ranks that can be achieved in that legacy could be 5. For a second tier legacy 6, and so on.

    If they did this, it would remove the currently ridiculous system of having to recycle a good first or second age for a new third age just because the expansion came out with a new arbitrary level increase. A first age would ALWAYS be better than a similarly levelled second age which would ALWAYS be better than a similarly levelled thrid age. The only reason to switch would be to try to find a better set of legacies.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0b20c0000001247fe/01008/signature.png]Cristofyr[/charsig]

 

 
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