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  1. #1
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    Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Hi All,

    I'm not all up-in-arms about the current LI system. I usually just accept "the world as it is" and either work within whatever system is in place, or move on. I'm currently working with the system that is in place.

    Having said that. . . given how our prior Moria-era legendary items were made obsolete with the release of Mirkwood, I got a chilling thought: What if, after all this skirmish grinding that I'm doing to get my six legendary items (on three toons -- giving up for now on my other alts) polished, they once again make these legendary items obsolete without the ability to get any of my work back out beyond the ixp (via runes) and relics?

    Please, please, please. . . when the time comes to go to level 70, or level 75 or whatever. . . please put some mechanism in place by which we can derive some "portable benefit" from all the work we've put into getting our legacy tiers upgraded.

    The "legendary grind" of the Moria-era LIs was nothing compared to what we're currently undertaking in the Mirkwood era via grinding for scrolls of empowerment. To see it all go down the drain in a few months. . . I think that might finally just cause me to despair.

    We don't need to have all of our effort transferable. . . but something. . . just so all that toil doesn't completely disappear. . .

    Best Regards,

    Hurin
    "Ephemeral" does not mean what I think it means.

  2. #2
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    It was a short road from determination to have the best I could have to complete apathy for me. Weeks of grinding for one LI on one of my characters, and it was all I could stand. It is maxed to Lv70 and has all Tier 6 legacies now. It will be the only LI that does for me. Because of the planned obsolescence that looms over all we do now, I had to ask myself, Why bother?

    I have what I have, and it will not get any better due to any direct effort I put out. I'll just have to live with that. Legendary indeed.

  3. #3
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Well, yep, that's sorta the feeling leading to my post. However, if we knew that we would be able to carry forward at least some of our "legacy grinding" to new items once these become obsolete, that would really change everything for me.

    Heck, it would even be worthwhile now for those of us hoping to get a lvl 65 2nd Age (or, someday, 1st Age) item. Right now, the idea of "upgrading" to those seems counter-intuitive after we've put so much time into our 3rd Age items.

    Again, we don't need all our empowerment scrolls carried over (or returned to us) in some fashion. . . but some return on our "investment" would make all the difference in the level of bitterness and burnout. At least, in my experience/opinion.

    Best,

    H
    "Ephemeral" does not mean what I think it means.

  4. #4
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Seems like factoring legacy tiers into the decon results would be very reasonable. I.e. you have relic returns based on a formula related to the tiers of your legacies.

    For me, it would have to be a *very* clear and definite system based on an equation, though, and not a vague promise. Preferably not even any percentage chances involved, but...I'm sure Turbine would prefer ultimate item-pleasure random reward lever pressing instead.

    Ideally, the whole system will change so we aren't throwing them away over and over..
    Elven Adventuress UI ~ Newbie Guide To Playing LotRO ~ Guide To Dual-Boxing LotRO

  5. #5
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Well my real problem isnt in the getting of a new LI its in erasing ALL the work we put into it. Things like:

    1. Not letting us use the ixp we gained (dont do **** like bounties and you wont have to do things like make "61-65" ixp runes)

    2.Now that we have empowerment scrolls make one of two things happen. We should get a chance to get a empowerment scroll(s) BACK when deconning. The chance should be linked to the teir of the legacy at decon --> I.E. Teir 6 legacy = 30% Teir 5 Legacy = 25% Teir 4 = 15% Teir 3= 5% Teirs 1 and 2 = 0% (the numbers are workable)

    Or give them empowerment scrolls the CHANCE to increase more than one teir --> IE 60% chance for 1 teir increase 25% chance for 2 teir increase 10% chance for 3 tier increases 5% chance for 4 tier increases

    3. I think for every maxed out LI we get we should get a say 25% chance to get a "Legacy exchange scroll" that will let you replace any legacy with another one (no duplicate legacies) Hey this will give people more of a reason to actually grind things out which seems to be a thing turbine wants.

    This would make changing out LIs bearable as well as enable them to change legacies as they had to do with mirkwood in a fair manner
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  6. #6
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Talfryn View Post
    It was a short road from determination to have the best I could have to complete apathy for me. . .Because of the planned obsolescence that looms over all we do now, I had to ask myself, Why bother?

    I have what I have, and it will not get any better due to any direct effort I put out. I'll just have to live with that. Legendary indeed.
    Completely agree.

    At least the new raid is fun and has some nice rewards.

    Yes, that last part was sarcastic.

  7. #7
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Maybe I'm in a minority here, but I don't mind the grind. I look back on the weapon I used in Moria with fondness, but am building my own "bond" with my current weapon as well. Using the same class item because its good, and who cares about level on those anyway. So there is some continuity between the old and new LI setup.

    When they make us use new LIs, I'll build a new history with whatever I get. Heck, it won't be that hard, I get rid of old gear and get new gear all the time anyway.
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  8. #8
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunal View Post
    Maybe I'm in a minority here, but I don't mind the grind. I look back on the weapon I used in Moria with fondness, but am building my own "bond" with my current weapon as well. Using the same class item because its good, and who cares about level on those anyway. So there is some continuity between the old and new LI setup.

    When they make us use new LIs, I'll build a new history with whatever I get. Heck, it won't be that hard, I get rid of old gear and get new gear all the time anyway.
    Yep, I think this is one of those situations where our alts get us in trouble. When Moria, legendary items, and radiance grinding first appeared, I had to give up on half my alts ever reaching a raid-capable level of polish. With the new scrolls of empowerment grind for each LI on each toon, I'm now looking at equipping two or three toons at the most.

    For those of us with many alts, it seems like a long, slow train to total despair. We adjust, but it eventually does just get worse. Now, it may be that the long-term health of LotRO is better off with people having fewer fully polished alts. So this might be a beneficial side-effect to the LI legacy grind via skirmishes. But, if that's the case, I fear I'll eventually end up being collateral damage and eventually give up even as its healthy overall for the game.

    But, just in case it's not considered a desirable side-effect from Turbine's perspective, I truly hope they're considering putting in some mechanism by which we can carry over some of this huge amount of legacy grinding via skirmishes.

    I really didn't have a problem with them making our lvl 60 items obsolete. . . other than leveling them, we didn't really "grind" all that much on them. At least, not compared to what we're currently doing now via skirmishes and scrolls of empowerment. The amount of time and effort put into legendary items in the current era is an order of magnitude greater than what we were investing in them prior to Mirkwood. I really hope this is taken into account.

    Best Regards,

    H
    "Ephemeral" does not mean what I think it means.

  9. #9
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurin View Post

    For those of us with many alts, it seems like a long, slow train to total despair.
    Couldn't agree more. I like to play all the classes, but my highest one is still 62, and it is running Bk 1 solo atm. The grind for LIs is terrible to me, not fun, and I really can't see doing it more than once on my main, much less on my alts. Forget the scrolls of empowerment, forget getting the "one" LI that is actually legendary-feeling.

    I'll level what I get, as I play, but I can't make this otherwise fun game into work, or else I just have to stop playing. As suggested, make it so we can carry over the time spent in some capacity. Starting over is too frustrating for me, and (assumptions are dangerous), I assume, for many others.
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  10. #10
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Action-Jackson View Post
    I'll level what I get, as I play, but I can't make this otherwise fun game into work, or else I just have to stop playing. As suggested, make it so we can carry over the time spent in some capacity. Starting over is too frustrating for me, and (assumptions are dangerous), I assume, for many others.
    This is how I'm going about it. I'm leveling as I play, but not putting any extra effort into it. To be honest, I haven't played my main enough lately to even bother with it. My fun in game right now is leveling alts. I have more fun doing that than anything in the current end game.
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  11. #11
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Honestly, there isn't a ton of motivation to seek the perfect LI anyway. 1) there is no perfect LI and 2) even if there were, it would only be perfect for a single set of circumstances.

    Therefore I don't worry about grinding them and focus on other things. They just level up incidental to my wanderings.
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  12. #12
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    Red face Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    To be honest, I haven't even done skirmishes for one scroll of empowerment, not have I ran Sammath Gul with the hope of getting a Symbol. Since having the "best" weapon is arguably impossible to achieve without massive amounts of time dedicated to rerolling weapons and upgrading the legacies, I do not value having the best weapon over playtime for my numerous alts.

    The only way I would be convinced to work on my weapons as much as the characters themselves would be if they leveled with us, and we could earn and slot the relics like traits on the weapons rather than relying on random factors that seem to change with each update.
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  13. #13
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunal View Post
    Honestly, there isn't a ton of motivation to seek the perfect LI anyway. 1) there is no perfect LI and 2) even if there were, it would only be perfect for a single set of circumstances.
    This isn't altogether true across the board. For example: Most Minstrels can agree on a set of two-to-four must-have legacies. Healing & Motivation and Bolster Courage are probably the most universally desirable. After that, I personally prefer Ballad of War Magnitude to keep the Champs in the group happy.

    So, I managed to find a book like that after going through many, many 65 LIs. I actually found another a few days later and sent it to a kinmate. But, well, there is such a thing as find that perfect LI and perfecting it further through scrolls of empowerment. Even if it's only perfect according to your own personal criteria, you can find it, and you can improve it through grinding.

    The point of this thread is that heretofore we've gotten IXP back out of our items when we upgraded (even lvl 60 2nd Ages give new-era IXP runes at max level). Now that we're spending even more time and directed, discrete effort into legacy tiers than we ever did into merely leveling these items, it seems reasonable to request some mechanism by which that time and effort might be carried forward (to some degree) as well from LI to LI.

    Best,

    H
    "Ephemeral" does not mean what I think it means.

  14. #14
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    To me this is a HUGE problem with the game right now. I'm reluctant even to put any improvements into my mains legendary item, because its not a second age. And even if I did get a second age item, the possibilities of a near future first age item (see lorebook) or the chance that it all becomes obsolete in the next expansion has made me just hang on to all my skirmish marks, scrolls, and emblems until its more clear what is going to happen with the legendary item system. I love this game, but this problem is a big turn off right now. Taking the long road of small improvements is not fun when all those improvements get potentially thrown away in the near (< 1 year) future.

  15. #15
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    To be honest, I already got to the same place the OP did with the Lvl61+ LIs.

    I didn't replace my Lvl60 LIs on most of my characters and honestly wasn't hurting in the least for doing such.

    My Kinnies didn't mind me running in groups with Lvl60 LIs either, knowing that I wasn't going to pull Aggro away no matter what I did.

    (I even went a week without LIs altogether! And in Solo PvE, it's actually not that bad at all!)

    That has left me with only one character that I've felt even remotely inclined to do the LI Grind all over again for Lvl65 LIs. It's made the LI Grind slightly more tolerable. However, I do dread doing the same song and dance come Lvl70.

    Oh yes, it will happen at Lvl70. Have no doubts about it! (I don't get jaded often, but this is one of those subjects that I gave up hope long ago that would ever be improved/remedied. Abandon hope, all ye who enter here.)
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  16. #16

    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    If they're going to make things obsolete at lvl 70 (or any level) again, why bother playing any longer.

    I'm sure Turbine has something planned to address this. This last big wipeout of LIs was because they made a mistake by allowing 1st and 2nd age weapons to so easily be obtained. Gear "inflation" would have been insane by level 80+

    However, plainly stated, if they're going to make us grind/decon, grind/decon every 5-10 levels, I just won't be playing as much - it simply isn't fun.
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  17. #17

    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    I'm not sure they're allowed to do something like that. Not enough time sinks otherwise.

    sorry Hurin better luck next time...
    Kraken, Thesungodra

  18. #18
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Viloxus View Post
    If they're going to make things obsolete at lvl 70 (or any level) again, why bother playing any longer.

    I'm sure Turbine has something planned to address this. This last big wipeout of LIs was because they made a mistake by allowing 1st and 2nd age weapons to so easily be obtained. Gear "inflation" would have been insane by level 80+

    However, plainly stated, if they're going to make us grind/decon, grind/decon every 5-10 levels, I just won't be playing as much - it simply isn't fun.
    I have to say, I just don't see an incentive for Turbine to kill their proverbial golden goose even with the complaints about the type of eggs the goose is laying. Yes, I'm well aware of all of our critiques, suggestions, complaints, etc regarding the current LI system, but the fact is we - that is those who have commented negatively about the LI system -represent maybe...MAYBE...5 - 10% of the entire LoTRO population. Clearly I have no actual numbers on this, but as a general rule, MMO message boards represent only 2% of the player population, and I'm padding that figure considerably since this is a topic of such focus. I could be waaaay over estimating, which could make the amount of frustration and disappointed with the LIs irrelevant.

    My point is, right now there are a heck of a lot of players who either don't care about the LI system, care enough to work on them as a hobby, actually like the LI system and thus grind it, etc, etc...that the minor few who do vocally complain about it is not likely to have that big an impact given the cost of really changing the system. The fact is, as it stands the LI system is a long-playable treadmill for the game and unless there is a sizable number of players leaving specifically because of them, I don't see them changing significantly. Certainly not the new level cap obsolescense.
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  19. #19
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Quote Originally Posted by RobinThorp View Post
    I have to say, I just don't see an incentive for Turbine to kill their proverbial golden goose even with the complaints about the type of eggs the goose is laying. Yes, I'm well aware of all of our critiques, suggestions, complaints, etc regarding the current LI system, but the fact is we - that is those who have commented negatively about the LI system -represent maybe...MAYBE...5 - 10% of the entire LoTRO population. Clearly I have no actual numbers on this, but as a general rule, MMO message boards represent only 2% of the player population, and I'm padding that figure considerably since this is a topic of such focus. I could be waaaay over estimating, which could make the amount of frustration and disappointed with the LIs irrelevant.

    My point is, right now there are a heck of a lot of players who either don't care about the LI system, care enough to work on them as a hobby, actually like the LI system and thus grind it, etc, etc...that the minor few who do vocally complain about it is not likely to have that big an impact given the cost of really changing the system. The fact is, as it stands the LI system is a long-playable treadmill for the game and unless there is a sizable number of players leaving specifically because of them, I don't see them changing significantly. Certainly not the new level cap obsolescense.
    I agree to an extent, but I've come to the conclusion that the conversion rate between one generation and the next (read: you decon a lvl 60 maxed LI and get a 15,000 mirkwood ixp rune) was a bad move by the devs. It effectively removes any inclination I may have had to actually partake in the grind like I did during Moria (where I spent countless hours doing and redoing the Dolven View instances and Esteldin bounties leveling and decon'ing items for runes & ixp). Given the return on investment of my time, I will be levelling up my 2 LI's to use and that's it. Why should I bother with the grind when there's nothing in it for me but a dead-end? Come the next expansion, all my "mirkwood item xp" will just be useless junk taking up space in my vault just like my moria ixp is now. Where's the incentive in that?

    I'm usually a "go with the flow" kind of player, and until recently I had a pretty good attitude about the LI system -- I understand the difficulty in implementing a system that strives to achieve thousands of individually unique items. But lately I've found myself feeling more and more like it's just TOO random, TOO unpredictable, and TOO much of a time-sink. There has to be a payoff in the end or all my toil feels for naught. And that's exactly where the current LI system has gotten me.

    If I wanted to grind endlessly for little or no reward I'd be playing Lineage.
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  20. #20
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Hurin View Post
    The point of this thread is that heretofore we've gotten IXP back out of our items when we upgraded (even lvl 60 2nd Ages give new-era IXP runes at max level). Now that we're spending even more time and directed, discrete effort into legacy tiers than we ever did into merely leveling these items, it seems reasonable to request some mechanism by which that time and effort might be carried forward (to some degree) as well from LI to LI.

    Best,

    H
    Back to the point then, I agree it is reasonable to request that time and effort be carried forward. Its all about time/effort versus reward and none of us want to see our efforts go to waste. We do use our LIs that we work so hard to build, though, and they help out alot in the game. So those old level 60 LIs did have their day, and that helps me somewhat.

    'To some degree' is a key part of your statement. Right now it happens "to a degree" because when you decon a max LI you will get both a Mirkwood rune and a Moria rune. I'd personally like to have more options on decon of the out-of-date LIs. Perhaps be able to get only a Mirkwood rune, and have it be larger, or one of the scrolls on random chance (renewal, stat scroll, empowerment even on a low chance). So yah.
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  21. #21
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Lunal View Post
    Back to the point then, I agree it is reasonable to request that time and effort be carried forward. Its all about time/effort versus reward and none of us want to see our efforts go to waste. We do use our LIs that we work so hard to build, though, and they help out alot in the game. So those old level 60 LIs did have their day, and that helps me somewhat.

    'To some degree' is a key part of your statement. Right now it happens "to a degree" because when you decon a max LI you will get both a Mirkwood rune and a Moria rune.
    Forgive me, but I think you still miss the point. You yourself mention getting IXP back as a means by which we are getting our time/effort back upon decon. Yet the point of the thread is that we've alway gotten IXP back and now it makes sense, due to the changing nature of how we develop our LIs, to arrange for a mechanism by which we get legacy tiers back to some degree.

    Prior to the revamp, all we did was level the LIs and the legacies took care of themselves. Since IXP was the currency by which we leveled them, we got IXP back upon deconstruction.

    However, in this current era, we don't just improve our LIs via IXP. IXP is now actually of far less concern than the newer "currencies" used to upgrade our LIs (skirmish marks and scrolls of empowerment). So, pointing out that we are already getting something back "to a degree" by getting IXP back misses the point. Getting IXP (only) back was acceptable when IXP was really the only factor in developing an item (relics take care of themselves and you never need lose one if you're careful). Now, however, the most grind-tastic aspect of leveling up our LIs has nothing to do with IXP and getting IXP back is essentially worthless to us when we're deconning an LI with maxed tiers in order to trade up to lvl 70 (or 1st/2nd age) LI with terrible tiers. IXP won't help us in the least and all those skirmishes are utterly wasted from this point forward.

    In the current system, IXP is plentiful and an LI can be leveled to max fairly quickly. But to truly polish up an LI, you'll need to spend days/weeks grinding out scrolls of empowerment. That is where the only substanial investment of time/effort truly lies in current era LIs. So it makes sense, given the precedent of us getting IXP back in the past, that we also get some of this effort back as well.

    It would seem to make sense that there be some mechanism by which we can get skirmish marks or scrolls of empowerment (etc.) back as well since those are the new (and only consequential/substantial) "currency" by which LIs are appreciably improved/upgraded.

    As others have pointed out, the near-certainty (barring information about future plans) that all of that "tier grinding" (not ixp) is going to disappear into the ether whenever we stumble upon a worthwhile upgrade. . . it tends to taint the entire LI system and discourage enthusiastic participation.

    Best,

    H

    Edit:

    P.S. Your point is taken that we derive value by using the LIs while we have them. But, as the "IXP refund" would seem to demonstrate, it's reasonable to argue that we should get some of our time/effort put into these items back upon deconstruction. Now that our time and effort is largely "stored" in legacies rather than IXP, it seems reasonable to assert that we need a different mechanism for this "refund" since IXP now constitutes such a minute part of the "LI grind."
    Last edited by Hurin; Mar 23 2010 at 11:54 PM.
    "Ephemeral" does not mean what I think it means.

  22. #22

    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    After all the time spent grinding for scrolls, leveling LI's, and relics, I've come to a simple conclusion.

    I am entirely disenfranchised with the LI system. I would absolutely love to go back to the old SoA system. You knew what you were aiming for then, and yes, it may have taken just as much time, but the grinding today is just getting pathetic. Moreover, classes are balanced around having the best legacies at max ranks, and that requires an extraordinary amount of time investment and luck. I didn't mind the gear reset from SoA to MoM, I finally put my old Elder's Staff to rest and replaced it. But the amount of time investment required in these new LIs, and knowing that they will be completely reset for naught at an expansion, destroys all incentives I have for working it at this point.
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  23. #23
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Graythandor View Post
    I agree to an extent, but I've come to the conclusion that the conversion rate between one generation and the next (read: you decon a lvl 60 maxed LI and get a 15,000 mirkwood ixp rune) was a bad move by the devs. It effectively removes any inclination I may have had to actually partake in the grind like I did during Moria (where I spent countless hours doing and redoing the Dolven View instances and Esteldin bounties leveling and decon'ing items for runes & ixp). Given the return on investment of my time, I will be levelling up my 2 LI's to use and that's it. Why should I bother with the grind when there's nothing in it for me but a dead-end? Come the next expansion, all my "mirkwood item xp" will just be useless junk taking up space in my vault just like my moria ixp is now. Where's the incentive in that?

    I'm usually a "go with the flow" kind of player, and until recently I had a pretty good attitude about the LI system -- I understand the difficulty in implementing a system that strives to achieve thousands of individually unique items. But lately I've found myself feeling more and more like it's just TOO random, TOO unpredictable, and TOO much of a time-sink. There has to be a payoff in the end or all my toil feels for naught. And that's exactly where the current LI system has gotten me.

    If I wanted to grind endlessly for little or no reward I'd be playing Lineage.
    I hear you, but I also remember all sorts of people jumping on the Bounty Quest train to level up their soon-to-be-obsolete items. Now, admittedly that might be because they didn't know that the return on the leveling was going to be so poor, but suspect that some, if not all, would have done them anyway since they liked the idea of having a maxed out item before entering the new area.

    That said, I do hope Turbine changes the LIs. It's nice it concept, but just not fun in practice. Here's to wishful thinking!
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  24. #24
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    I agree completely with the general sentiments of the thread.

    It is frustrating to go through a huge grind to find the perfect item and get it maxed out only to wait for the next expansion which will make it completely irrelevant.

    There are however ways to fix it.

    1. Return some of the empowered scrolls upon destructing the weapon, and return more experience runes.

    2. Simply do not raise the level cap for weapons when the next expansion comes out; keep the weapons at 65, but raise the player cap to 70.

    Personally I hope they go with #2, but I doubt it.

    The system the way it is now is hard, but doable, I think the main gripe people have is that they know all the hard work they are doing to make a legendary weapon right now is going to be for nothing if the level cap is raised for the weapons, so simply don't raise it.

    Instead of raising, or even changing the weapon system at all, give us mounted combat and add that as a new component to the game completely separate and different from the weapons systems but still requiring a great deal of time and effort of its own.

  25. #25
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    Feb 2007
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    Re: Suggestion: Next Time Our LIs Become Obsolete (@ lvl 70?). . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Faithknight View Post
    I agree completely with the general sentiments of the thread.

    It is frustrating to go through a huge grind to find the perfect item and get it maxed out only to wait for the next expansion which will make it completely irrelevant.
    The really disturbing part is that new expansions and level cap increases aren't the only issue. Because the time and effort we put into scrolls of empowerment are totally non-returnable, we are even affected by this when a 2nd Age, or even a better 3rd Age drops.

    At this point, I think a lot of people are choosing not to engage in improving their legendary items at all via scrolls of empowerment and skirmishing. . . because they know that untold hours and hours could be utterly wasted if they find a better weapon next week. Whether that weapon be a 2nd Age, a newly introduced First Age, or even just a Third Age with one additional legacy that they want.

    You really have to commit to an item and wait for one you can't possibly imagine topping before engaging with the new system of increasing legacy tiers via scrolls. And even in that case, you know that under the current system, it's all for naught eventually when they introduce level 70 items.

    That's a recipe for despair and frustration.
    "Ephemeral" does not mean what I think it means.

 

 
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