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  1. #126
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Brampton, Ontario, CANADA
    Posts
    1,689

    Re: BG recommendations

    You can also do aggro swap + two assistants. Aggro debuff on the assistants does not matter one way or the other. It eliminates any chance of the strat going wrong.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/042080000001078d2/01001/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
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  2. #127

    Re: BG recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by wyldcyde View Post
    i'm not sure what build/gear requirements you think classes a group as not casual.
    This is how I separate hardcore raiders from casual raiders.

    Hardcore Raiding group: required attendance; required levels of morale, virtues, etc; required builds for specific classes; has class leaders that teach others how the kin wants that class played.

    Casual Raiding group: does endgame instances/raids with characters that may not meet hardcore requirements; players prepare and build themselves with exception of obvious required skills;

    I never meant to say nyX is a casual kin, its a casual raiding kin. Casual kins may have a large percentage of players that never raid, nyX only has a couple I am aware of, but we also have a few that only raid a couple nights a month.
    [url=http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/mandywun]Mandywun[/url], Minstrel 61 (SM/K Tailor) - [url=http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/gwennethwun]Gwennethwun[/url], Guardian 65 (SM/K Metalsmith)
    [url=http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/briannawun]Briannawun[/url], Burglar 65 (SM/K Jeweler) - [url=http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/hollywun]Hollywun[/url], Hunter 65 (SM/K Woodworker)
    [url=http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/ranzarawun]Ranzarawun[/url], Runekeeper 65 (SM/K Scholar) - [url=http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/ranzarawun]Catharinewun[/url], Captain 29 (K Weaponsmith)

    1 Frothing Road, Feginstath - Thorins Hall Homesteads, Elendilmir

  3. #128
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Brampton, Ontario, CANADA
    Posts
    1,689

    Re: BG recommendations

    Wow, according to those definitions, Animus is casual raiding. o.o I haven't had to pull out requirements since MoM hehe.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/042080000001078d2/01001/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    Leader, [URL="http://www.animuskin.com"]Animus[/URL]
    We are accepting applications.

  4. #129

    Re: BG recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by dhatcher1 View Post
    This is how I separate hardcore raiders from casual raiders.

    Hardcore Raiding group: required attendance; required levels of morale, virtues, etc; required builds for specific classes; has class leaders that teach others how the kin wants that class played.

    Casual Raiding group: does endgame instances/raids with characters that may not meet hardcore requirements; players prepare and build themselves with exception of obvious required skills;

    I never meant to say nyX is a casual kin, its a casual raiding kin. Casual kins may have a large percentage of players that never raid, nyX only has a couple I am aware of, but we also have a few that only raid a couple nights a month.
    I agree with you there. We are a casual/end game raiding group. Most of us have lvl 65 2nd ages if not 2. I think I have one the best healing books in game, so does our other mini. All of have all of our DN gear and can clear DN in under 4 hours, most have traits maxed out, but there are a couple that may or may not have everything, some peeps just dont have the time to do the grind and we all understand that in our group. Because we are in game friends 1st and want to keep playing together. But because of the changes, those people are feeling like they are holding us back, when before they were not. Now we are just steppig back and getting those peeps the things that they need to get this down right. The goal for me is not for ME to complete BG, if I wanted to do that I am sure there would be a END GAME RAIDING KIN that would take me, but for OUR group to complete BG. We started with 12 and over our 7 months we have picked up 3 others. Now we down to 11 out of the 15. If those 11 can beat LT, I did what I set out to do... Raid End Game with my In Game Friends....

  5. #130
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    433

    Re: BG recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesm429 View Post
    Gratz man glad that you got it. I should be right behind you but still am pissed too at Turbine. Some peeps left the Core Group, so we have made some changes, for sure two cappy's now instead of one. I do know for a fact our strat for Twins Hard Mode still works so if you need that let me know. But can you tell when what method you used to tank Durchest. WE keep trying 2 cappy's in there with the tank way, but for some reason once the tank goes in, one of the cappy's stop getting hit. Please share your thought and thank you.
    We aggro swap between a guard and warden. When one gets to -50% the swap is made. We keep the whole group close to Durchest and try to keep the captains in front of him during the HM adds to help distribute Cleave. I would highly recommend switching from the "assistant tanking" method to the "tank swap" method. It may take your tanks a little while to learn the rhythm, but once you get that down it's so much easier.

    All our HM kills before the patch and now this one after have been using this strat. We simply had to add to it after the patch. What we added was the cappies helping mitigate Cleave and having an RK switch to healing on the first HM add and our 2nd RK switching to healing once the 3rd HM add is killed. I'm sure it could be done w/out the 2nd RK switching, but we just wanted to be sure! We waited till ~8k left on Durchest to pull the last add which was the lightning one. By the time that was dead the 2 tanks had brough Durchest down to ~3500 and w/ my OBS on him he died almost before he could even start his induction for the big lightning attack.

    One thing that I haven't mentioned is how we handle the healing. I'm sure most successful groups do it this way, and perhaps some that aren't having success, but it helps a lot! The 2 main healers NEVER target anything but Durchest. They have target forwarding enabled so all their heals go directly to whoever Durchest is hitting. The captains handle healing the person off-tanking the adds and any other spot heals needed. Both tanks should be shield-brothered and hopefully your captains have the +10% incoming healing for their shield brother legacy. The captains can also help heal the main tanks while on the adds using Inspire.

    I hope this info can help some groups get over the hump in this encounter. It's quite a rush in those final 30sec of the fight!
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/04208000000069a6c/signature.png]Eletheian[/charsig]
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  6. #131

    Re: BG recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by Magian View Post
    Wow, according to those definitions, Animus is casual raiding. o.o I haven't had to pull out requirements since MoM hehe.
    To me the determining question is this: If you get a new member join who has lesser gear than your normal group, will you take them in anyway or insist they improve/change their traits/virtures/legacies/jewelry before you take them?

    If you havent had to pull out requirements because everyone already meets what the requirements would be then effectively they still exist and you are not casual.
    Last edited by dhatcher1; Mar 16 2010 at 04:10 PM.
    [url=http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/mandywun]Mandywun[/url], Minstrel 61 (SM/K Tailor) - [url=http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/gwennethwun]Gwennethwun[/url], Guardian 65 (SM/K Metalsmith)
    [url=http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/briannawun]Briannawun[/url], Burglar 65 (SM/K Jeweler) - [url=http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/hollywun]Hollywun[/url], Hunter 65 (SM/K Woodworker)
    [url=http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/ranzarawun]Ranzarawun[/url], Runekeeper 65 (SM/K Scholar) - [url=http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/ranzarawun]Catharinewun[/url], Captain 29 (K Weaponsmith)

    1 Frothing Road, Feginstath - Thorins Hall Homesteads, Elendilmir

  7. #132
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Brampton, Ontario, CANADA
    Posts
    1,689

    Re: BG recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by dhatcher1 View Post
    To me the determining question is this: If you get a new member join who has lesser gear than your normal group, will you take them in anyway or insist they improve/change their traits/virtures/legacies/jewelry before you take them?

    If you havent had to pull out requirements because everyone already meets what the requirements would be then effectively they still exist and you are not casual.
    Yes I've confirmed lesser geared people (assuming they have 120 rad) into a BG raid before improving. They recognize when in a raiding kin it is in their best interest to constantly improve their character. I don't have to ask. It just happens. They're only lesser geared for a couple weeks.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/042080000001078d2/01001/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    Leader, [URL="http://www.animuskin.com"]Animus[/URL]
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  8. #133

    Re: BG recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by davymaxwell View Post
    We aggro swap between a guard and warden. When one gets to -50% the swap is made. We keep the whole group close to Durchest and try to keep the captains in front of him during the HM adds to help distribute Cleave. I would highly recommend switching from the "assistant tanking" method to the "tank swap" method. It may take your tanks a little while to learn the rhythm, but once you get that down it's so much easier.

    All our HM kills before the patch and now this one after have been using this strat. We simply had to add to it after the patch. What we added was the cappies helping mitigate Cleave and having an RK switch to healing on the first HM add and our 2nd RK switching to healing once the 3rd HM add is killed. I'm sure it could be done w/out the 2nd RK switching, but we just wanted to be sure! We waited till ~8k left on Durchest to pull the last add which was the lightning one. By the time that was dead the 2 tanks had brough Durchest down to ~3500 and w/ my OBS on him he died almost before he could even start his induction for the big lightning attack.

    One thing that I haven't mentioned is how we handle the healing. I'm sure most successful groups do it this way, and perhaps some that aren't having success, but it helps a lot! The 2 main healers NEVER target anything but Durchest. They have target forwarding enabled so all their heals go directly to whoever Durchest is hitting. The captains handle healing the person off-tanking the adds and any other spot heals needed. Both tanks should be shield-brothered and hopefully your captains have the +10% incoming healing for their shield brother legacy. The captains can also help heal the main tanks while on the adds using Inspire.

    I hope this info can help some groups get over the hump in this encounter. It's quite a rush in those final 30sec of the fight!
    We have always done the tank ago swap before the patch, so we have that down, no problem, but I here alot of peeps doing the assist method now. I think from what I am reading, with the assist method, your peeps just need to be in the right place to get hit. I will find out soon....

  9. #134

    Re: BG recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesm429 View Post
    We have always done the tank ago swap before the patch, so we have that down, no problem, but I here alot of peeps doing the assist method now. I think from what I am reading, with the assist method, your peeps just need to be in the right place to get hit. I will find out soon....
    Sounds like the swaping groups also have assists to absorb cleaves. It ties up one more player on Durchest instead of adds, but should increase tanking reliablity.
    [url=http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/mandywun]Mandywun[/url], Minstrel 61 (SM/K Tailor) - [url=http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/gwennethwun]Gwennethwun[/url], Guardian 65 (SM/K Metalsmith)
    [url=http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/briannawun]Briannawun[/url], Burglar 65 (SM/K Jeweler) - [url=http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/hollywun]Hollywun[/url], Hunter 65 (SM/K Woodworker)
    [url=http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/ranzarawun]Ranzarawun[/url], Runekeeper 65 (SM/K Scholar) - [url=http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/ranzarawun]Catharinewun[/url], Captain 29 (K Weaponsmith)

    1 Frothing Road, Feginstath - Thorins Hall Homesteads, Elendilmir

  10. #135
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    517

    Re: BG recommendations

    We got Duchest down on HM on Friday night for the first time since patch after having him on farm before. I think it was our 6th attempt (althought the first 2 attempts we didn't know about the slow, and 3-5 we didnt' have a burg).

    We used the aggro swap with assists method. Captains went in first and stood in front (Duchest turned towards the wall) with a guard. Our warden stood behind building aggro and when the guard lost aggro (which was infrequent) they just switched places.

    Our guard died once from 3 heavy hits in quick succession; DMA for 3.2k, 5.3k, 3.2k. Tough to heal through that one.
    [CENTER]Rakethorn of Elendilmir[/CENTER]
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  11. #136
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Posts
    292

    Re: BG recommendations

    /signed fully agree
    Watcher 1.0 all over again

  12. #137

    Re: BG recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by wyldcyde View Post
    The hard question needs to be asked by turbine... just how much can we expect from the average raider. We know there is a segment of players who will log in and press on no matter what, but for many others they play for fun and very important to note is that people who were ploughing through previous raid content are now either struggling or increasingly frustrated.
    just want to quote this once more before I disappear. /beats dead horse with wyld's head

    not just the average raider. any raider. and on top of frustrated (by Turbine's lack of listening skills), you can add "are not having fun".

    I was never too affected by the loot, but when you have to clear another 45m worth (or whatever it is) of /yawn trash because, for the third time in a row, you got yellow eye + fear, AND you could be playing with kinnies in Aion.......................... .

    kinda makes you sit back and ask yourself why in the hell you're still playing. or in my case, reactive your Aion sub.

    /wave goodbye
    Kraken, Thesungodra

  13. #138
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Christchurch New Zealand
    Posts
    3,569

    Re: BG recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by IGolbezI View Post
    I was never too affected by the loot, but when you have to clear another 45m worth (or whatever it is) of /yawn trash because, for the third time in a row, you got yellow eye + fear, AND you could be playing with kinnies in Aion.......................... .
    yes i really dislike randon mechanics that have significant impact on chance of success... there is pvp for outcomes that are that out of control.

    oh well at least none of the loot from LT is exciting... the only (generalisation) reason to farm LT is to make it easier to farm LT hehe.
    [center][B][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/wyldcyde"]WyldCyde[/URL][/B] [COLOR=cyan]65 Chn [/COLOR][B][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/rafael"]Rafael[/URL][/B] [COLOR=cyan]65 LM [/COLOR][B][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/delenn"]Delenn[/URL][/B] [COLOR=cyan]65 Hnt [/COLOR][B][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/tendai"]Tendai[/URL][/B] [COLOR=cyan]65 RK [/COLOR][B][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/weirdo"]Weirdo[/URL][/B] [COLOR=cyan]65 Brg [/color][COLOR="Gray"]secret[/COLOR] [COLOR="Cyan"]65 Hnt[/COLOR][/center]
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  14. #139
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    239

    Re: BG recommendations

    yea the yellow eye plus fear is annoying and needs to be fixed but u can survive it a majoirty of the time.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000021a57f/signature.png]Vronwolf[/charsig]

  15. #140

    Re: BG recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by Tartare View Post
    my group got luckier than yours
    there, fixed that for you.

    please don't speak for my group, thanks.

    don't play it off like there's some sort of skill in keeping your distance from the beast. stick down auto run and win.

    i'm normally the one for L2P and elitism here, but there is no skill in getting feared on a path leading away from the beast.
    Kraken, Thesungodra

  16. #141
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    1,063

    Re: BG recommendations

    Y'know, if they removed CJ immunity from the beast after the dismount, that would at least provide an oh-snap countermeasure to fear+yellow eye.

    Not like the FB has any scripts to break at that point in the fight anyway.
    Nemesis - Brandywine
    Jenith 100 Hunter || Gavigan 78 Guardian || Kazamir 76 Captain
    Gjorn 65 Champion || Anavel 65 Burglar || Thissis 100 Warden || Mezimus 70 Loremaster

  17. #142

    Re: BG recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by rawlingsst7 View Post
    Y'know, if they removed CJ immunity from the beast after the dismount, that would at least provide an oh-snap countermeasure to fear+yellow eye.

    Not like the FB has any scripts to break at that point in the fight anyway.
    mmm i could never see them doing that. it would lessen the whole no ICPR thing too much with no penalty. whereas if you use the adds for power, you still have to deal with riddle resisting or w/e.

    besides, if they removed FM immunity they would probably accidentally remove stun immunity or give it 1s FM immunity after an FM, something to that effect. safer just to remove the eye + fear if you ask me
    Kraken, Thesungodra

  18. #143
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    1,063

    Re: BG recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by IGolbezI View Post
    mmm i could never see them doing that. it would lessen the whole no ICPR thing too much with no penalty. whereas if you use the adds for power, you still have to deal with riddle resisting or w/e.

    besides, if they removed FM immunity they would probably accidentally remove stun immunity or give it 1s FM immunity after an FM, something to that effect. safer just to remove the eye + fear if you ask me
    No doubt, that's the best solution, but who know how long it would take to implement? We know there are mechanics in place to prevent certain people from getting eyeballs (Krankluk & Flagit never give their aggro target an eye; the BG twins don't give their aggro targets their particular eye, though the tanks can get the other sorc's eye).

    Just don't give the beast a super-short FM immunity like Flagit.
    Nemesis - Brandywine
    Jenith 100 Hunter || Gavigan 78 Guardian || Kazamir 76 Captain
    Gjorn 65 Champion || Anavel 65 Burglar || Thissis 100 Warden || Mezimus 70 Loremaster

  19. #144
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    239

    Re: BG recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by IGolbezI View Post
    there, fixed that for you.

    please don't speak for my group, thanks.

    don't play it off like there's some sort of skill in keeping your distance from the beast. stick down auto run and win.

    i'm normally the one for L2P and elitism here, but there is no skill in getting feared on a path leading away from the beast.
    Thats not what i said or meant at all. Just saying that it is possible to bubble people in time, im not sayin death can always be avoided but it can be some of the time. Yes the fight does need to be fixed so this cant happen but its not the end of the world like some ppl will try and tell you
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000021a57f/signature.png]Vronwolf[/charsig]

  20. #145
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    5,862

    Re: BG recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by Tartare View Post
    Thats not what i said or meant at all. Just saying that it is possible to bubble people in time, im not sayin death can always be avoided but it can be some of the time. Yes the fight does need to be fixed so this cant happen but its not the end of the world like some ppl will try and tell you
    So you have to have a healing RK? It is the end of the world, or the end of your LT fight if you have a 20% snare from the red phase and you're force feared with the yellow eye. Don't give an inch.
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  21. #146
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    239

    Re: BG recommendations

    yea if ur slowed plus feared and yellow eye yea thats gona suck, but if you have that happening everyrun ur extremely unlucky. All i was pointing out was that u can survive yellow eye plus fear. its not easy but it is possible.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000021a57f/signature.png]Vronwolf[/charsig]

  22. #147
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    5,862

    Re: BG recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by Tartare View Post
    yea if ur slowed plus feared and yellow eye yea thats gona suck, but if you have that happening everyrun ur extremely unlucky. All i was pointing out was that u can survive yellow eye plus fear. its not easy but it is possible.
    Wrong. It's impossible with a resist in red phase and a fear on the yellow eye at that exact time. Lol. though, I like how you said, if you have that happening you're unlucky but you can survive it based on some "Hard secret" player skill --> Interpreted from it's not easy (implying it's challenging) but it's possible.
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  23. #148
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    239

    Re: BG recommendations

    Yea if uve got a tiered up slow yes its impossible, but realistically ud be unlucky to get yellow eye plus fear and be considerable slowed at the same time. fact is if ur too slowed u probly woulda been choped on anyways so the fear hasnt really been the issue but the curruptions.
    well we got the HM kill tonight and we had more than one occasion where we had the fear on the guy the beast was after. u can survive yellow eye plus fear, it may be a low chance but it can be done. Its a ****ty mechanic and i hope it gets fixed but its not encounter breaking like some ppl think. Even if someone does get muched as long as your quick to react u can keep the add mezzed and simply move to another part of the room. Its not ideal but managable.

    I think as ppl are spending more time in there its something u come to expect yellow eye and fear to happen, if u just sit back and go well that was bad luck everytime your probly not going to get the kill. if u have plans on what to do if it happens etc your survival chances go up quite alot, yes there will still be times when u die/wipe from it but that number should be reduced.

    Weve been in there alot the last 2 weeks and had more than a few decent attempts and i think only once or twice we wiped cus of the yellow eye plus fear, most wipes were caused by us having a bad run of curruption resists or ppl removing curruptions in panic when weve had resists and cycling him thru once too many etc. Weve goten into a pretty good rythm now and im confident we can get the kill each week.

    Either way you look at it the yellow eye and fear sucks and does need to be changed. i just dont want ppl giving up hope on the encounter and quitting.
    Last edited by Tartare; Mar 19 2010 at 08:02 AM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000021a57f/signature.png]Vronwolf[/charsig]

  24. #149

    Re: BG recommendations

    Quote Originally Posted by Tartare View Post
    i just dont want ppl giving up hope on the encounter and quitting.
    slight /derail on...yeah...I gave up hope with the patch. nothing is going to change. raiding has fallen so far from what it used to be. rift/hele, even watcher 2.0, even DN for all of its complaints., were still fun to me. challenging boss fights, at least in LOTRO's context, does not make a good raid. never raided for loot, and as much as they (challenging encounters) are fun, I think BG is a good testament to that.

    if Turbine would refer to the OP of this thread, maybe it'd be a little different, but how many of us will wait around for 4-6 months waiting for an encounter to be changed when half of the recommendations were made in beta?
    Kraken, Thesungodra

  25. #150
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Christchurch New Zealand
    Posts
    3,569

    Re: BG recommendations

    well I finally had a chance to see LT 2.0 encounter after having beaten 1.0 a few times.

    wow they really turned up the dial.

    i mean its doable but i can really understand people losing interest if you can't take your A++ team in there each week.

    tbh I'm glad the loot for LT isn't 'must have' because the encounter in normal mode is just too difficult relative to the playerbase, i can only see about 2-4 groups per server beating it.

    something to sink our teeth into for the challenge, but beyond initial kill I'm not sure how keen i am to farm it.
    [center][B][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/wyldcyde"]WyldCyde[/URL][/B] [COLOR=cyan]65 Chn [/COLOR][B][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/rafael"]Rafael[/URL][/B] [COLOR=cyan]65 LM [/COLOR][B][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/delenn"]Delenn[/URL][/B] [COLOR=cyan]65 Hnt [/COLOR][B][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/tendai"]Tendai[/URL][/B] [COLOR=cyan]65 RK [/COLOR][B][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/weirdo"]Weirdo[/URL][/B] [COLOR=cyan]65 Brg [/color][COLOR="Gray"]secret[/COLOR] [COLOR="Cyan"]65 Hnt[/COLOR][/center]
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