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  1. #26

    Re: Was all our hard work for nothing in learning BG before the last Update?

    Quote Originally Posted by wyldcyde View Post
    book1 would have been an excellent opportunity to make changes like:
    1. guaranteed symbol drops from hardmodes.
    2. add some more teal/orange rares.
    3. fix the last sorcerer/warg pull.
    4. disable respawns, or for lock 2 and 3 make timer only start when last mob killed.
    5. fix the set bonuses, some don't work.
    6. polish encounters so having 4 ranged and 1 max champ isn't the default config for majority of groups (not just some that already had raid on farm)
    I do know that the devs are doing their very best to make good content for us, but I think that a lot could be gained by taking advice from some rational and reasonable people who are very familiar with their content (perhaps much more familiar with it than they are!). I think an update like this (in addition to some of the changes that were made that were necessary) would have been well received.

    Nice suggestions, WyldCyde.

  2. #27
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    Re: Was all our hard work for nothing in learning BG before the last Update?

    Quote Originally Posted by RUEBEN2PA View Post
    im not sure what all the complaining is about, the only issue i saw on first 2 boss fights is more resists and durchest is no longer slowed, these problems arent hard to work around, our group, which is not a kin wiped once on durchest and killed twins with no difficulty at all both HM then went on to kill LT easy mode. Even with changes the instance is really not that much harder until you get to LT. Being able to improvise and think on your feet is important in raiding, the strats really did not change for the first 2 fights just need to work around resists, im very sorry to read that ppl are canceling their accounts because something got a bit more difficult but to each their own i guess.
    Exactly. I dont know why so many people are complaing. I like figuing out the small changes or adjusting strats and thinking on your feet. And all the ppl complaining that its to hard, apart from the LT(im not complaing about this fight i actually like the new version) it is really quite easy. I know alot of casual players that go in there and do ok. they may not get HM kills everyweek but it gives you something to aim for and a sense of achievement when you do get it. If it was easy it would just be like a longer boring SG. ( even the textures and layout is similar) with about as much incentive to run it.

    I play the game to be entertained. mindlessly and easily cutting thru content is not entertaining. Having to always be alert and watching out for things or trying to notice mechanics or ways to improve your strat and having to improvise what you already know is.
    Each wipe makes you more hungry for success, and that success so much sweeter when it comes.

    It doesnt matter what mmorpg you play, if your not in a good kin you will probly spend more time dying in raids than winning. Its meant to be a challenge. hence the term hard mode. its not just LOTRO.
    Last edited by Tartare; Mar 10 2010 at 05:03 AM.

  3. #28
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    Re: Was all our hard work for nothing in learning BG before the last Update?

    Quote Originally Posted by Draugnim View Post
    It's pretty obvious Resources are elsewhere at this point.
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  4. #29
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    Re: Was all our hard work for nothing in learning BG before the last Update?

    Quote Originally Posted by wyldcyde View Post

    "last straw" indeed. turbine needs to acknowledge this raid had issues from day1... so far the subsequent changes have not for the most part addressed them.
    If the target audience for predictable enjoyment of BG is top % of hardcore raiders then sigh but so be it... maybe everyone else should focus more on skirmish raids.
    This is the key to the issue IMO. Not for my kin, but for the overall logic of what they've done with raiding since SoM. I don't even mind the changes - it keeps things fresh. But when they're wrong in the first place and still survive a patch or two.....eeeeh.

    They keep the Radiance gate intact, though now it requires nothing more than a grind. There is no skill progression (really) involved in progressing to the next raid. You grind, you're in.

    They make it so any kin who was unable to clear DN (how we all would historically have gotten past the BG radiance gate) can still grind SH all day (i.e. - have a path of least resistance) and meet the radiance req. I guess I'm fine with that. I don't begrudge anyone the chance to experience content... But gating becomes grind...which anyone can do, so why even gate at all? I assume it's so they can more effectively control what gear people can wear in there. (As in, the OP Watcher set is right out) Anyway...

    I also assume hard modes were put in place to offer increased challenge to the groups who got their gear the more traditional way (in DN). I think that's great, really. Brilliant even. Then the DG token barter junk was put in there to throw a bone to those who used to complain about being gated out of the new raid. I'm also fine with that.

    Then they go and make even the normal mode of the end boss of the new "all-attainable" raid based on so much luck that people who didn't have the ability to clear DN don't stand a chance. Not a chance. Ever. If you don't have a group that can beat the Blind One, you will never beat the LT. What is the logic at work here? I mean, if I wasn't stupid, I'd think they were trying to push folks to the brink of ultimate frustration and resignation. Like "grats, come on in - and good luck suckers, muahaha..."

    The same could also be said for Durchest and his 6K attacks, the gauntlet respawn timer, the broken/bugged pulls to the Twins. Once the less experienced raiders get in, they can't do anything but wonder why they were invited in the first place.

    Key issue #1: Proper execution of a viable strat should be rewarded every time. This is not happening. This is not even currently possible.

    Key issue #2: Player skills should work in a predictable nature. Resists are fine (don't like that I still get a cooldown), but when my hunter shows me a pink dot on my minimap, I expect that to mean.....something? When my RK casts a skill that is supposed to protect my fellow from something every time, it should protect my fellow from it every time.

    Key issue #3: Players should be rewarded based on the difficulty of the content. I know it's a little subjective, but I can go to the old Moria instances and have a better chance at something decent and teal than I can in all of Mirkwood. This is wacko. I can tear through HoC in 25 minutes and get at least a sidegrade item. I can take the Twins down in hard mode and get.....a tier 5 relic. Gah, maybe I should have chosen the 83K IXP. Woo?

    Each update really does get worse for anyone at the end game. The past year has proven that much. Leveling alts may be a viable way to deal with the "lean times", but what the hell am I even leveling them up for? So I can experience frustration and disillusionment while playing a different class? That's awesome.

    The current group of devs is not even a faint shadow of what got this game off the ground. The worst part is they keep driving in the wrong direction. Anyone sharing my level of frustration and still able to be optimistic that they're going to eventually "get it right".....how do you do it?

    You have one dev talking about how risk must match reward....do they talk out loud over there? Did anyone else hear him? OMG....It's like we're in a dev sandbox here.

    Maybe we should just start reporting each others' posts....at least we'll know a Turbine employee is actually reading them...
    Last edited by Southpa; Mar 10 2010 at 09:06 AM.
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  5. #30
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    Re: Was all our hard work for nothing in learning BG before the last Update?

    Quote Originally Posted by Southpa View Post
    This is the key to the issue IMO. Not for my kin, but for the overall logic of what they've done with raiding since SoM. I don't even mind the changes - it keeps things fresh. But when they're wrong in the first place and still survive a patch or two.....eeeeh.

    They keep the Radiance gate intact, though now it requires nothing more than a grind. There is no skill progression (really) involved in progressing to the next raid. You grind, you're in.

    They make it so any kin who was unable to clear DN (how we all would historically have gotten past the BG radiance gate) can still grind SH all day (i.e. - have a path of least resistance) and meet the radiance req. I guess I'm fine with that. I don't begrudge anyone the chance to experience content... But gating becomes grind...which anyone can do, so why even gate at all? I assume it's so they can more effectively control what gear people can wear in there. (As in, the OP Watcher set is right out) Anyway...

    I also assume hard modes were put in place to offer increased challenge to the groups who got their gear the more traditional way (in DN). I think that's great, really. Brilliant even. Then the DG token barter junk was put in there to throw a bone to those who used to complain about being gated out of the new raid. I'm also fine with that.

    Then they go and make even the normal mode of the end boss of the new "all-attainable" raid based on so much luck that people who didn't have the ability to clear DN don't stand a chance. Not a chance. Ever. If you don't have a group that can beat the Blind One, you will never beat the LT. What is the logic at work here? I mean, if I wasn't stupid, I'd think they were trying to push folks to the brink of ultimate frustration and resignation. Like "grats, come on in - and good luck suckers, muahaha..."

    The same could also be said for Durchest and his 6K attacks, the gauntlet respawn timer, the broken/bugged pulls to the Twins. Once the less experienced raiders get in, they can't do anything but wonder why they were invited in the first place.

    Key issue #1: Proper execution of a viable strat should be rewarded every time. This is not happening. This is not even currently possible.

    Key issue #2: Player skills should work in a predictable nature. Resists are fine (don't like that I still get a cooldown), but when my hunter shows me a pink dot on my minimap, I expect that to mean.....something? When my RK casts a skill that is supposed to protect my fellow from something every time, it should protect my fellow from it every time.

    Key issue #3: Players should be rewarded based on the difficulty of the content. I know it's a little subjective, but I can go to the old Moria instances and have a better chance at something decent and teal than I can in all of Mirkwood. This is wacko. I can tear through HoC in 25 minutes and get at least a sidegrade item. I can take the Twins down in hard mode and get.....a tier 5 relic. Gah, maybe I should have chosen the 83K IXP. Woo?

    Each update really does get worse for anyone at the end game. The past year has proven that much. Leveling alts may be a viable way to deal with the "lean times", but what the hell am I even leveling them up for? So I can experience frustration and disillusionment while playing a different class? That's awesome.

    The current group of devs is not even a faint shadow of what got this game off the ground. The worst part is they keep driving in the wrong direction. Anyone sharing my level of frustration and still able to be optimistic that they're going to eventually "get it right".....how do you do it?

    You have one dev talking about how risk must match reward....do they talk out loud over there? Did anyone else hear him? OMG....It's like we're in a dev sandbox here.

    Maybe we should just start reporting each others' posts....at least we'll know a Turbine employee is actually reading them...
    I really don't know what is Turbine's view in all this... Would be great to know...

    Did anyone actually think about the possibility of this game shuting down before reaching Mount Doom?

    Because for the 1st time since launch I have a feeling of hard times ahead of us... And don't frea cking tell me we should all be positive and help Turbine and suggest things to improve the game instead of bashing them. In the past 3 years I told I Love you Turbine maybe more times I've told my 2 girlfriends I had in the same amout of time! We have all suggested INNUMEROUS things that can be done to improve the game and put it back on trail!

    They don't listen, they don't care. That's what I sadly conclude. And that's why yesterday I didn't log on even though I had a few hours to spend... RL is way more fun now... Sad panda...

  6. #31
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    Re: Was all our hard work for nothing in learning BG before the last Update?

    Do you really think there is no changes other than resists?

    Some have posted Durchest is effectively two-shotting tanks (devestating melee attack + cleave back to back). I didn't see that personally but it has been noted.

    Twins is where I saw changes.

    When my group killed them (which could've been a bugged lock, much like Durchest was for us) Morgaraf was unquestionably doing more damage. The tank in particular was getting massacred. He wasn't the best geared tank in the world (an alt) but he did really well before the patch. Puddles also increased significantly.

    It's frustrating when you have a decent group (coulda swapped a Champ for a ranged attacker but we've done it with our composition pre-match), who made no mistakes in execution, but lost because of the changes.

    Maybe all it is, is a bugged raid lock like what we saw in Durchest. But for those who don't understand why there are complaints, who feel there is no changes, how do you account for this? This is coming from a kin who is one of the few on Elendilmir to beat the raid. I don't mean to be boastful but we are not slouches, so I'm not making excuses. This is what we saw last week and it is so discouraging.

    edit: Oh and to top it all off, my RK, even with penetrate resistance legacy, was resisted 5 times in a row. Wonderful.
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  7. #32
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    Re: Was all our hard work for nothing in learning BG before the last Update?

    Ah resists up'ed doesn't this take you back to MoM release as a Guardian, I mean it was such a great implementation then why not do it now.

    /sarcasm off

    Seriously though it seems like the issues are progressing as usual, no communication with regards to changes, very little sustainable content with new volumes, breaking game mechanics that work fine and ignoring the mechanics that have been broken for ages *cough, cough* Hips & stealth.

    You know thats what this reminds me of, MoM! we have BG 1.0 just like Watcher 1.0 don't want melee classes, resists are up, stealth is still meh. SoM is MoM 2.0!

    Still better than MW2(PC) though.
    Last edited by Eavis; Mar 10 2010 at 11:10 AM.

  8. #33
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    Re: Was all our hard work for nothing in learning BG before the last Update?

    In regards to Durchest no longer slowed, I think Turbine has been fairly consistent over time in stating (through their actions of changing bosses) that they only want certain bosses kited (such as the shadow 2nd boss). Otherwise, when they see emergent behavior (or whatever you want to call it) where kiting causes a minimization of an encounter (in their opinion) then they make changes. It's happened several times so I don't think anyone should be shocked by it. Honestly, when I hear about an instance where a boss is kited and they DON'T change it is when I become surprised.

    I personally hate kiting and think all bosses should have big ranged whacks when it is attempted but that is just me. =)

    Besides that and resists, has anyone noticed other major changes?
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  9. #34

    Re: Was all our hard work for nothing in learning BG before the last Update?

    Quote Originally Posted by AceItcher View Post
    In regards to Durchest no longer slowed, I think Turbine has been fairly consistent over time in stating (through their actions of changing bosses) that they only want certain bosses kited (such as the shadow 2nd boss). Otherwise, when they see emergent behavior (or whatever you want to call it) where kiting causes a minimization of an encounter (in their opinion) then they make changes. It's happened several times so I don't think anyone should be shocked by it. Honestly, when I hear about an instance where a boss is kited and they DON'T change it is when I become surprised.

    I personally hate kiting and think all bosses should have big ranged whacks when it is attempted but that is just me. =)

    Besides that and resists, has anyone noticed other major changes?
    Other major changes -- see the thread above -- lots has been stated and it's a good read.

    As for bosses shouldn't be kited........what???? Kiting has been a viable strategy in MMORPG's for 10 years -- why is it so wrong now?

  10. #35
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    Re: Was all our hard work for nothing in learning BG before the last Update?

    Quote Originally Posted by musicman2000 View Post
    Other major changes -- see the thread above -- lots has been stated and it's a good read.

    As for bosses shouldn't be kited........what???? Kiting has been a viable strategy in MMORPG's for 10 years -- why is it so wrong now?
    I would say it was pretty clear when Turbine released the patch notes for V2B7: "Boss monsters in Moria are now immune to slows." Too many bosses were being kited instead of fought "as intended" so they removed that ability.

    If they really wanted a boss kited, they would naturally slow it like General Talug, or make it stop periodically like the LT's Fell-beast. So I'm not surprised that this was changed/fixed/whatever you want to call it.

    We played around with kiting Durchest when we were originally learning the fight, but it always seemed, to me, to be pretty lame. It's my opinion that you shouldn't fight a raid boss by running away from it while everyone else whacks away on its back. Even Cargaraf doesn't have to be kited provided you never attempt to melee tank her.
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  11. #36

    Re: Was all our hard work for nothing in learning BG before the last Update?

    Quote Originally Posted by rawlingsst7 View Post
    I would say it was pretty clear when Turbine released the patch notes for V2B7: "Boss monsters in Moria are now immune to slows." Too many bosses were being kited instead of fought "as intended" so they removed that ability.

    If they really wanted a boss kited, they would naturally slow it like General Talug, or make it stop periodically like the LT's Fell-beast. So I'm not surprised that this was changed/fixed/whatever you want to call it.

    We played around with kiting Durchest when we were originally learning the fight, but it always seemed, to me, to be pretty lame. It's my opinion that you shouldn't fight a raid boss by running away from it while everyone else whacks away on its back. Even Cargaraf doesn't have to be kited provided you never attempt to melee tank her.
    Immune to Slows and Durchest Slowing all on his own is two different things in my book. And again, I don't care if the changes THEY have MADE to this fight stay, we will learn it, the problem I am having is THEM not telling us if these are changes. Right now no one knows for sure what is bugged and what is not, except for the Wargs...
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  12. #37

    Re: Was all our hard work for nothing in learning BG before the last Update?

    Quote Originally Posted by rawlingsst7 View Post
    I would say it was pretty clear when Turbine released the patch notes for V2B7: "Boss monsters in Moria are now immune to slows." Too many bosses were being kited instead of fought "as intended" so they removed that ability.

    If they really wanted a boss kited, they would naturally slow it like General Talug, or make it stop periodically like the LT's Fell-beast. So I'm not surprised that this was changed/fixed/whatever you want to call it.

    We played around with kiting Durchest when we were originally learning the fight, but it always seemed, to me, to be pretty lame. It's my opinion that you shouldn't fight a raid boss by running away from it while everyone else whacks away on its back. Even Cargaraf doesn't have to be kited provided you never attempt to melee tank her.

    Yes i agree that raid bosses should not be kitted like Durchest was kitted. However, Durchest did not slow down below 130k because of a bug in the codes. Turbine coded it that way. V2B7 was pretty clear about the kitting issues, so why the F*** did they code it to slow down? Don't they learn from their past mistakes? If Turbine wants somehow make the boss weaker as its health goes down they should have just increased its attack duration. But im sure this is not what Turbine is after because most fights get more difficult as their morale decreases.

  13. #38
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    Re: Was all our hard work for nothing in learning BG before the last Update?

    We have noticed a lot of "changes" as well. It's clearly not just resists, something either changed or the change is a result of some trickle down. For instance, why the weird floating stuns now?

    We've been working on this raid for months now, and its getting harder and harder to pull a group for it. DN, and VM for that matter, have a much better reward/time ratio than BG. It's hard to get people motivated to spend three or four hours in a buggy instance for rewards that are either vendor trash or going to get stuck in the bank till the next raid.

  14. #39
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    Re: Was all our hard work for nothing in learning BG before the last Update?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesm429 View Post
    Immune to Slows and Durchest Slowing all on his own is two different things in my book. And again, I don't care if the changes THEY have MADE to this fight stay, we will learn it, the problem I am having is THEM not telling us if these are changes. Right now no one knows for sure what is bugged and what is not, except for the Wargs...
    If you consider the intent behind the slow-immunity ("We don't want you kiting bosses anymore, kthxbye") then they really are the same thing. Whether it's removing the ability for player skills to apply slow effects, or flipping a bit on Durchest so he doesn't behave like a normal mob and auto-slow below 15% morale, the intent is the same: You can't run from this guy to avoid some of his skills/attacks.

    That said: I absolutely, 100% agree with you that these changes should have been documented. We are seeing this all over the place, with fixes/changes making it through without the sightest mention in patch/release notes (Tactical Resists being the worst/most recent instance). They don't even bother describing specific exploits/bugs in instances being fixed anymore, it's the same line every time: "Fixed several instances of unintentional gameplay."

    If some behavior is advanced enough to be a popular strategy, described in numerous posts in this very forum, in threads titled as Strategy Guides, and that behavior is not an exploit in the eyes of Turbine, but it isn't WAI either and is going to be changed, it deserves a mention in the patch notes.* If it IS an exploit, I can understand them not talking about it, but if kiting Durchest was an exploit, why were the threads that mentioned it not edited/pruned/deleted?

    *Frankly I think every change to raid content should be documented; heck typo corrections in skills are not only documented but given shout-outs to the people who bugged them!
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  15. #40
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    Re: Was all our hard work for nothing in learning BG before the last Update?

    Quote Originally Posted by Beloth View Post
    This is one of the reasons why I don't even bother Raiding.

    Turbine, in their wisdom, sees now how hard it's going to be for them to actually get to Minas Tirith, much less Mordor, and they are now scrambling in every way they know how to 'stretch' the value (longevity) of their present content.

    They know that this game is going to quickly be passed up by newer, faster game engines and graphics, because they chose what was cheap when they started.

    They are desperate to wring every dime they can out of it.

    They hired a HUGE staff to do Moria, and were so unsure of it that even after release they were still sending out polls on content to beta testers.

    They can't afford that kind of staffing again, because of the cost, and the economy.

    What do they do?

    The 'Release in Asia' was successful, but all of Asia does not even equal the revenue of California alone, (if that) because of exchange rates.

    The 'Global Market' for them means making things in Asia at Asian wages FOR Asia, you can't expect to wallow in cash here from profits there.

    And you can't expect to survive here by moving there, people will reject you for firing the U.S. staff.

    Plus, the boss can't speak a second language, much less see a way out of this box.

    The artwork created for the Asian Servers is far too Kabuki/Anime for U.S. markets anyway.

    So, their solution is to make everything, literally everything, a grind.

    For LI's this means Dropping the Exp Rune value from the once juicy 175,000 to a 650 point spit in the face.

    It means that now only 1 on 100 LI's for your class comes up with 3 legs (of moderate value), and maybe 1 in 10,000 will have four to start with.

    For raids, it means making bosses much harder, Farming NOT ALLOWED.

    For general play it means that almost all mobs are harder, have more resists, do more damage, and cost more in repairs.

    This however does not mean a lower spawn rate though, so, where you once roamed freely, you now MUST group to survive.

    The failure of this 'plan' is that it looks at the content as a BUSINESS, not a game, not as FUN, only as a way to milk cash and make subscriptions last longer.

    But how long will the subscriptions last if the game is no longer any fun to play, for anyone?

    They've pissed of the Tolkien Fan, with RK's tossing around spells in a world where they do not belong.

    They've pissed of the hard core and casual raiders, by making both the loot and the hard fought strategies worthless.

    They've pissed off the general population of players at endgame by totally destroying LI's, and making weapons vendor trash, in a world that is SUPPOSED TO revere it's lineage, it's history, and honor the hallowed hands that wielded it before you.

    They've turned the opening content into a rocket ride to this endgame, creating a class of players who really do not understand the skills they are playing.

    On the tactical and technical proficiency of newer players, have you not run into a level 50 or higher that hasn't even purchased and equipped all of his available skills, much less know how to use them?

    I have seen more than a few.

    So, what's left?

    What do we do?

    What does Turbine do?

    Personally, I'd be happy with no new content for several years, IF, and not just capital, but a big IF, they devote what resources they have to polishing everything, from Michel Delving to Mirkwood.

    There is already so much between those two it's still full of things so many haven't done.

    Make Housing something the people like and want.

    If LI's are going to be trash, (really bad idea) make it a quick turn around again, so they can at least not be stuck so long with something that COSTS THEM MONEY in repairs, to have to use.

    Get rid of all the glitches and imbalances.

    Clean up the clutter and work on the 'evergrowing' lists of 'Honey Do's' that all the previous content left us with, rather than adding more and pushing down into the mire stuff that SHOULD HAVE BEEN FIXED.

    So sorry, but pixels will never turn into crude oil.

    Stop the race to more, newer, bigger, and start looking at what Tolkien is, and what it is not, because no matter what they do, there will come a day when all they have left are Tolkien Fans, here because it's Middle-earth.

    It's a GAME, and they better figure out a way to bring the fun back, or the money is going to go to something that is fun to play, made by people who love to play it, not some cashsuck made by businessmen.

    Most of this is my opinion, but this next part isn't-

    BUSINESS ONLY HAPPENS FOR THOSE WHO PROVIDE SOMETHING THE PEOPLE WANT!
    Couldnt agree more, well said.

  16. #41
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    Re: Was all our hard work for nothing in learning BG before the last Update?

    The real irony is that they changed boss encounters that were functionally working but they didn't bother to fix the stuck wargs, a bug we've been reporting for months.

  17. #42
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    Re: Was all our hard work for nothing in learning BG before the last Update?

    Quote Originally Posted by wyldcyde View Post
    book1 would have been an excellent opportunity to make changes like:
    1. guaranteed symbol drops from hardmodes.
    2. add some more teal/orange rares.
    3. fix the last sorcerer/warg pull.
    4. disable respawns, or for lock 2 and 3 make timer only start when last mob killed.
    5. fix the set bonuses, some don't work.
    6. polish encounters so having 4 ranged and 1 max champ isn't the default config for majority of groups (not just some that already had raid on farm)

    tick tock
    Totally! you know something is wrong when a Lt. hard mode rare loot drop (studded bracelet) goes as a greed roll something is wrong with the raid. But all this was said blue in the face in Beta also, to no avail, and while I am sure there are many people who raid still because that's the kind of content they enjoy, surely regular raiding numbers are down.

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Christchurch New Zealand
    Posts
    3,569

    Re: Was all our hard work for nothing in learning BG before the last Update?

    i do think as VM and DN becoming older and less valuable raiding activity is arguably dying down a bit.

    That was mitigated by people making increasing progress in BG... running multiple raids etc.

    Hopefully the next book includes a new cluster and at least 1 or 2 lair raids. I really don't expect another multi boss raid until xpac.

    I know I complain a lot on forums, but reality is I've raided BG on 3 chars, will go in there multiple times this weekend, etc.
    I just want the frustration and dissapointment level reduced.
    [center][B][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/wyldcyde"]WyldCyde[/URL][/B] [COLOR=cyan]65 Chn [/COLOR][B][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/rafael"]Rafael[/URL][/B] [COLOR=cyan]65 LM [/COLOR][B][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/delenn"]Delenn[/URL][/B] [COLOR=cyan]65 Hnt [/COLOR][B][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/tendai"]Tendai[/URL][/B] [COLOR=cyan]65 RK [/COLOR][B][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/weirdo"]Weirdo[/URL][/B] [COLOR=cyan]65 Brg [/color][COLOR="Gray"]secret[/COLOR] [COLOR="Cyan"]65 Hnt[/COLOR][/center]
    [center][URL="http://off-peak.guildlaunch.com/"]OFF PEAK Kinship (Elendilmir)[/URL][/center]

  19. #44

    Re: Was all our hard work for nothing in learning BG before the last Update?

    Quote Originally Posted by rawlingsst7 View Post
    I would say it was pretty clear when Turbine released the patch notes for V2B7: "Boss monsters in Moria are now immune to slows." Too many bosses were being kited instead of fought "as intended" so they removed that ability.

    If they really wanted a boss kited, they would naturally slow it like General Talug, or make it stop periodically like the LT's Fell-beast. So I'm not surprised that this was changed/fixed/whatever you want to call it.

    We played around with kiting Durchest when we were originally learning the fight, but it always seemed, to me, to be pretty lame. It's my opinion that you shouldn't fight a raid boss by running away from it while everyone else whacks away on its back. Even Cargaraf doesn't have to be kited provided you never attempt to melee tank her.
    Yes I realize you're just echoing Turbine's stance that they don't want certain bosses to be kited -- I'm honestly not being intentionally obtuse there. What I am curious about though is why you stated previously think kiting is a bad strategy. As for Turbine they seem to want all their boss fights scripted to have one particular way of beating them -- no idea why there I personally think it's insanely silly but it is what it is -- the raiding community really should be accustomed to this by now =P.

    But I am curious about your opinion -- kiting having been a valid strat for a decade in MMO's-- why do you personally consider it to be such a bad strategy?? I'm usually of the point of view if it's not clearly an exploit and the mechanics allow for it then the strategy is fair game. It's no more *leet* so to speak to tank a boss in place then it is to run it around the room IMO.

  20. #45
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    433

    Re: Was all our hard work for nothing in learning BG before the last Update?

    Quote Originally Posted by wyldcyde View Post
    i do think as VM and DN becoming older and less valuable raiding activity is arguably dying down a bit.

    That was mitigated by people making increasing progress in BG... running multiple raids etc.

    Hopefully the next book includes a new cluster and at least 1 or 2 lair raids. I really don't expect another multi boss raid until xpac.

    I know I complain a lot on forums, but reality is I've raided BG on 3 chars, will go in there multiple times this weekend, etc.
    I just want the frustration and dissapointment level reduced.
    This is exactly how I feel! I have raided on 3 toons in BG and my burg is leveling up and it won't be too long before I have that toon in there... If the frustration and disappointment level could be brought down it would be much appreciated!
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/04208000000069a6c/signature.png]Eletheian[/charsig]
    ~Invicti-R7RK~Grimbergen-R4LM~Fauxmytes-65burg~Thaindir-28champ~

  21. #46

    Re: Was all our hard work for nothing in learning BG before the last Update?

    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoFurriel View Post
    I really don't know what is Turbine's view in all this... Would be great to know...

    Did anyone actually think about the possibility of this game shuting down before reaching Mount Doom?
    ....
    for the first time I'm actually starting to believe that is possible. Maybe offshoring the whole kit and cabuddle would be better, real devs who actually understand up from down and would listen to people who actually play the game would make it worth cheesy graphics, imo.

    Turbine doesn't even want to accept the obvious fact that upping the PvP is a better way to improve the quality of end game than adding endless boring grind arcade sessions.

    What was the whole point of this tactical resist buf anyway? Just taking a wild swag I will go out on a limb and guess it's a nerf for tac classes, but instead of actually doing the work to nerf Sith Keepers, Mins and LMs they took the easy way out. Well we've never seen that before huh. Now it's backfiring on them... AGAIN, and they are gonna go stick their heads in the sand hoping when they pull them out the issue will somehow magically have gone away.

    At this point Turbine should just put a logic inverter on the output of all their decision making processes, by doing the exact opposite of whatever they would normally do they can increase the quality by a magnitude. Good luck getting Harry Pooter or whatever launched because you are gonna need it.

  22. #47

    Re: Was all our hard work for nothing in learning BG before the last Update?

    Quote Originally Posted by Delirium View Post
    for the first time I'm actually starting to believe that is possible. Maybe offshoring the whole kit and cabuddle would be better, real devs who actually understand up from down and would listen to people who actually play the game would make it worth cheesy graphics, imo.

    Turbine doesn't even want to accept the obvious fact that upping the PvP is a better way to improve the quality of end game than adding endless boring grind arcade sessions.

    What was the whole point of this tactical resist buf anyway? Just taking a wild swag I will go out on a limb and guess it's a nerf for tac classes, but instead of actually doing the work to nerf Sith Keepers, Mins and LMs they took the easy way out. Well we've never seen that before huh. Now it's backfiring on them... AGAIN, and they are gonna go stick their heads in the sand hoping when they pull them out the issue will somehow magically have gone away.

    At this point Turbine should just put a logic inverter on the output of all their decision making processes, by doing the exact opposite of whatever they would normally do they can increase the quality by a magnitude. Good luck getting Harry Pooter or whatever launched because you are gonna need it.
    the tact resist rate (pre patch) was bugged to be lower than normal. so they changed it to what it was "supposed" to be
    Kraken, Thesungodra

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    3,924

    Re: Was all our hard work for nothing in learning BG before the last Update?

    Quote Originally Posted by RicardoFurriel View Post
    I really don't know what is Turbine's view in all this... Would be great to know...

    Did anyone actually think about the possibility of this game shuting down before reaching Mount Doom?
    It's hard to see how the game can continue with the bare-bones effort we've seen recently.

    Maybe they've decided they can just milk the IP without any significant future investment of resources? That is certainly the impression I get from SoM and III.1.

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    248

    Re: Was all our hard work for nothing in learning BG before the last Update?

    Quote Originally Posted by LagunaD View Post
    It's hard to see how the game can continue with the bare-bones effort we've seen recently.

    Maybe they've decided they can just milk the IP without any significant future investment of resources? That is certainly the impression I get from SoM and III.1.
    Quote Originally Posted by MadeOfLions
    We considered doing an instance similar to the 'Fellowship Departs' instance in Rivendell, but ultimately it came down to the fact that any such instance would need to have them rowing away on the boats, and the animation cost for that would be extremely, extremely high. No matter how cool that instance might have been (and I think it could have been pretty cool), without the ability to physically move their boats downstream it wouldn't have been cool enough.
    If that statement doesn't sum up the situation at Turbine, I don't know what will....if they are unable to justify the cost of animating key moments from the books, then what hope is there for much else.

  25. #50
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    2,314

    Re: Was all our hard work for nothing in learning BG before the last Update?

    Quote Originally Posted by IGolbezI View Post
    the tact resist rate (pre patch) was bugged to be lower than normal. so they changed it to what it was "supposed" to be
    So when are they going to 're-balance' the content which was originally 'balanced' with the bug?

    Oh wait, they're not, they're content that this 'fix' made everything hard because it just adds to the time-sink effect.

 

 
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