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  1. #26
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    Re: Stop all the solo quest walls.

    Quote Originally Posted by MadeOfLions View Post
    That's one of the reasons. The other is that many solo instances depend on the designer knowing exactly where you are at certain points, in order to make all the moving pieces work properly. With multiple people in the space, we become less able to pull some of the fancy tricks we pull in those spaces.

    Orion's work to soloify Volume I means that we might be able to include more of the traditional instances in the Epic line, but I'm not really willing to give up the solo instances in which we can do so much story heavy-lifting.

    MoL
    Seriously guys,

    After all the infos about the revamp of volume 1, I thought that the new volume would be based on the same tech.

    Usually, when a new book is live, I log into the game after a hard day of work to play the new content with my friends.

    Running in every single corner of middle-earth wasn't the most exciting experience, but at least I was still with my friends.

    Discovering the new public dungeons filled with more player characters than NPCs wasn't that exciting, but at least I was still with my friends.

    But when you ask us to leave the group to explore a huge cave in forochel *solo*, that is not cool.

    I'm all to allow player to be able to play solo if they want to, but for god's sake this is a multiplayer game after all!
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  2. Re: Stop all the solo quest walls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thane9 View Post
    So it's now MY duty to challenge myself

    YES

    It's a game

    You pay to have access to their game, not for them to make you a game that challenges you.

    It's up to you and everyone else to find the fun part of the game for them.

    You can make suggestions (some are implemented) but past that it's their call what the game ends up being.
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  3. #28
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    Re: Stop all the solo quest walls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    To you? Probably not much, but frankly we can't build most of our content around the expectations of our best players - or not those who purport to be, at any rate.

    Our statistics suggest that the game is quite a bit more difficult than the one you subjectively experience, but that is to be expected. YMMV according to personal skill and perseverance, as with any game.

    Prior to reaching cap, the easiest way to challenge yourself is simply to 'fight up' or fight aggressively through camps. After cap you may need to be a bit more creative at times if you find the game too relaxing.

    Might I suggest 'No Pants Thursday'? That was a favorite of one of my old guilds when we had some major raid or instance on boring farm status.

    Removing major armor segments tends to increase the challenge level of most content considerably. The fewer you can roll through with, the better your bragging rights.

    Better yet, our cosmetic armor system allows you do so while avoiding the embarrassment of exposing yourself to the forces of Darkness!
    Naked Tanking hasn't really been a viable way to challenge yourself since the introduction of radiance gated raiding. It was just one more thing that made the Rift so much fun, though.
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  4. #29
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    Re: Stop all the solo quest walls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thane9 View Post
    Seriously though. Did Anyone not just stroll through this last book?

    I can't even imagine needing to use a cooldown or a consumable to complete it all.
    A few of the non-raiders in my kin had trouble taking down a single defiler in the trollshaws cave, much less the 2-pull warriors in there or the leaders.


    Just because you and I find the game easy doesn't mean everyone does. What right do you have to insist that turbine only caters to those of us who are really good?

  5. #30
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    Re: Stop all the solo quest walls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thane9 View Post
    Seriously though. Did Anyone not just stroll through this last book?

    I can't even imagine needing to use a cooldown or a consumable to complete it all.

    Are you honestly saying people did? Really? Who are these people? Can you list their names. I'd be happy to help them out.
    My minstrel friend did not find it easy at all. I won't be listing her name (even if you were on the same server) because, considering your attitude, help from you is the last thing she would want.

  6. #31

    Re: Stop all the solo quest walls.

    We would prefer to hear, and see each other all the time. Using Vent during separate solo's instances isn't what we want to do. If we just hear one another on vent, and are not seeing each other, we aren't playing the game with together.

    example why vent w/solo sucks: someone dies and we're trying to explain to the person how to finish the instance without seeing what really happened to them. We think she died and is still in the instance, but really she died and spawned in the rez circle outside the instance. The blind helping the blind. If we're with her in the instance we wouldn't have any trouble helping her.

    We're grouped and we want to stay that way. If there's a solo quest, we wont disband. We just wont do it. Unfortunately, there's a quest chain behind that Solo-Wall-Quest.
    Last edited by emirikol; Mar 03 2010 at 06:47 PM.

  7. #32
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    Re: Stop all the solo quest walls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thane9 View Post
    Seriously though. Did Anyone not just stroll through this last book?

    I can't even imagine needing to use a cooldown or a consumable to complete it all.

    Are you honestly saying people did? Really? Who are these people? Can you list their names. I'd be happy to help them out.

    Because unless they're disabled in some way, I honestly just can't see how this past book could've provided a skill challenge to anyone who has hit the level cap.

    or are you suggesting Volume 3 is to be done at L60 instead of 65?

    I'm honestly not trying to be snarky. It's mind boggling to me to think that those normy mobs and a smattering of solo sigs was anything more than just a 30s time sink between dialogue triggers.

    And now I will be a bit snarky:

    Pantless day? So it's now MY duty to challenge myself by not playing the game as intended? Are you really saying that the devs are happy catering to the lowest abled player possible and everyone else can just gimp themselves if they're looking for any kind of gameplay?

    I'm honestly confused. What would be wrong with a game where skill enters play more often than a couple boss fights for half a year at a time?
    Now that was a condescending post. IMHO.
    TANSTAAFL

  8. #33
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    Re: Stop all the solo quest walls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurkerinthemist View Post
    Ok, that sounded a little condescending, as if you think we don't know how to take care of our gameplay. It really wasn't in line with the OPs request to not have walls in the middle of a quest line - what does that have to do with creatively challenging ourselves at endgame?

    I HATE solo-only instances because it splits me from my friends. And I get lost easily. I got so frustrated in the Forochel cavern I had to log and take a break before I could come back to relax a bit. Please tell me how that remotely improved my gameplay session.

    My friend is having issues with the dreaded Vol 2 Book 9 Ch 16 quest. As a result, he still doesn't have the Battle in the Tower skirmish so that's one less thing we can do together. Tell me how that obstacle has made the game more enjoyable for either of us.

    It really hit us in the face back in Vol 1 book 11 with that silly elf chick and the vignettes in Delossad - my hunter friend at level barely survived. Then again in book 14 when we had to split up groups twice to do the session plays. In fact it was almost impossible to get groups back together because so many people had trouble completing those session plays.

    It hit again pretty badly with Vol 2 books 7 & 8. Same reason.
    Hmmm. Well here is some evidence that solo quests can indeed be challenging.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurkerinthemist View Post
    Putting solo-only instances into the middle of a quest line is disruptive. My minnie has a very hard time getting through solo instances unless I go trait her for dps, then retrait her back to heal a group.

    Putting solo-only instances off by themselves, like the Dolven or crafting instances, that's annoying because it's content we can't do together, but at least it's not right in the middle of a quest line. These would have been awesome to duo, yes zerg right through easy-mode, but have fun while doing some repetitive grind work.
    Remember, some folk see it exactly the opposite way around. Putting group-only instances into the middle of a quest-line is disruptive.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lurkerinthemist View Post
    I'd really like to see consistency in the quest lines, so hopefully a group could form and stay together through the end. Even the 3-3-6 combination of instances in books 8 and 9 are an issue.

    And honestly, I'd like to see this story heavy-lifting get done in cut scenes and movies, less NPC dialogue, fetchandcarry and travel, and put more challenges and fights into the actual quests.

    Oh and second that request to be able to skip the skirmish tutorials please.
    TANSTAAFL

  9. #34

    Re: Stop all the solo quest walls.

    We logged on to checkout Volume 3. It's starts with a solo Wall quest, so we all logged back off. Group blocking enabled, Fun Fun.
    Last edited by emirikol; Mar 03 2010 at 08:37 PM.

  10. #35
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    Re: Stop all the solo quest walls.

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  11. #36
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    Re: Stop all the solo quest walls.

    Hmmm... I hear Frodo complaining now about all those Solo Walls while running around middle earth by himself. I don't see this as a big issue, besides how do you expect to work around these Solo Walls when you are playing as another character? Not all solo quests are handled by the player you are playing.

    As far as easy for some, good for you. Glad it's easy for you, but that doesn't mean it's easy for everyone.

    As far as Vastin's suggestion of removing armor to make Instances or Areas more difficult that is a great suggestion and can make things more challenging. Frankly running a group of Capped Players thru CD, URU, or the Rift is flat boring and no challenge at all. Removing or downgrading your armor will make it more challenging. So Good Suggestion Vastin.

    Also, the DEVS made a very good remark as to why the Solo Walls are in place, can it be changed probably. But at what risk...More complaints, because the mechanics have trouble determining out of the 3 or more in the group the programming has trouble determining everything that is going on with each of the members in the group. Some of these Solo Instances are heavily loaded with alot going on and if the group is doing the same instance or different instances may cause the program to freeze, lag, crash, or respond badly. Ultimately this game is nothing but a Program and yes the program can be tweaked, changed, and upgraded but each of these comes with a cost and the cost may cause more issues and complaints than is worth the hassle. Which is the reason why alot of suggestions haven't made it into the game yet.

    Another suggestion if you find a group instance is too easy try soloing the instance or play with fewer members in your group. Run Tier II or III Skirmishes. There are plenty of ways to make this game more challenging if needed. Personally I think they have it setup pretty good, there goal should be to meet the needs of all play styles from the Most Experienced to the Least Experienced in any area of the game. If they didn't then the number of players would be drastically lower and the game would eventually disappear.
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  12. #37

    Re: Stop all the solo quest walls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thane9 View Post
    May I be blunt?

    Too late, here I go. And I respectuflly apologize in advance because I'm terribly frustrated with the current status of the game and the apparent direction the game seems to be going in.

    I haven't seen anything solo that isn't trivial already. In fact it's far more of a challenge in this game to GET a group/raid than it is to DO 99% of the content with a group/raid.

    BG, the "toughest instance EVER": The most difficult part of it is convincing my friends to log in once a week to play LotRO to run the instance.

    What "solo" material are you talking about that is challenging even in the slightest?

    I was terribly disappointed at how trivial this book was. Not just that it was a bunch of "go talk to" quests, but that these HUGE open instances were just populated with chump mobs being rolled over by the lowest common denominator players. Don't get me wrong...as always the storytelling aspect and "cool" factor were HIGH...but the gameplay and challenge...not even close.

    I think it's pretty clear that Turbine has choosen to make EVERYTHING in this game achievable by the most casual, least skillful, most whiny players.

    And it's really too bad.

    There were challenges in SoA. The combat system allowed for it.

    Now every encounter is either a faceroll or just a flat dps race.

    Sorry, but I call shenanegans to the idea that you're putting solo quests in to challenge anyone. That may be the theory....but we're not challenged. I assure you.
    Umm if I recall the death from below quest in gathburz has had many posts on this bored complaining how "difficult" this solo quest is.

    Try thinking about other before making broad generalizations to fit you point. I hate to say this but I am sure there is just as many people out there who hated when they got to a point in a quest chain that forced them to find a group then those that forced them to brake up and solo it.
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  13. #38
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    Re: Stop all the solo quest walls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yagami-Kun View Post
    Umm if I recall the death from below quest in gathburz has had many posts on this bored complaining how "difficult" this solo quest is.

    Try thinking about other before making broad generalizations to fit you point. I hate to say this but I am sure there is just as many people out there who hated when they got to a point in a quest chain that forced them to find a group then those that forced them to brake up and solo it.
    What he's saying is not necessarily wanting group chapters but stop with the FORCED solo instances that have been plaguing all the recent books. (And that's without talking of vol1 as I don't know yet how they've all been changed, I hope there's no solo walls.) See, skirmishes are a good idea, forced solo instances are not. Ice caves come to mind. And let me add this, I'd rather be bored out of my mind in a pathetically easy instance with my friends than being stuck doing it solo.
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  14. #39

    Re: Stop all the solo quest walls.

    Quote Originally Posted by emirikol View Post
    We logged on to checkout Volume 3. It's starts with a solo Wall quest, so we all logged back off. Group blocking enabled, Fun Fun.
    See, I think that's unfair. The Vol 3 Prologue is exactly the sort of quest that they're talking about being useful for storytelling. That one could be a disaster if they had to track multiple players and got some part of it wrong. It's placed helpfully right at the beginning, and it's utterly non-combat. So everyone can go do it, then form up and go do the rest of the book together.

    I'm with you on solo-only combat quests in the middle of the book being a real pain that can break up the momentum of a group. But I'm all for instances like the prologue, that are non-combat and come at the beginning or end of a book.

  15. #40

    Re: Stop all the solo quest walls.

    It's been awhile since I read the complete Lord Of The Rings trilogy but didn't it get TOUGHER on Frodo and Company the further south/southeast they traveled? This entire game is slowly having the air let out of it. No challenge whatsoever.

  16. #41

    Re: Stop all the solo quest walls.

    I think the takeaway from all this is that just as many players find "forced soloing" annoying as find "forced grouping" annoying. It wouldn't bother me personally if there were a lot of "forced soloing," since that's my preferred mode anyway; but it's not good for the health of the game.

    Ever since 2004 I've believed the following: "solo" chains should be solo from beginning to end; "group" chains should be group from beginning to end; and linchpin content like the epic quest line should be equally accessible to both playstyles (i.e., there shouldn't be any "forced" episodes). Forcing either playstyle to "just try it the other way" just doesn't work in practice. People who prefer to solo do so for a reason; people who prefer to group also do so for a reason. Both are important.

    I understand there may be some technical limitations involved. I'd say that the disruption caused to either playstyle makes it worth the effort to remove the technical limitations. Inspired Greatness was an elegant solution that removed "forced grouping." Now we need an equally elegant solution that removes "forced soloing."
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  17. #42
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    Re: Stop all the solo quest walls.

    Quote Originally Posted by emirikol View Post
    We're grouped we're questing. Bam! Another freaking solo quest wall in the chain we're doing and we have to break up.

    Seriously NOT FUN to breakup and reform every few quests.

    There no reason you can't let 6 ppl go into a solo instance. You don't have to balance it for 6 ppl. Just let them go in and easy mode it.

    SOLO INSTANCE=no limit on how many can go in! Solo difficulty!

    When ppl say they want "more solo quests". They mean "Easier", as in "solo difficulty" that you can do solo or bring 2-6 ppl into when they want.

    It's fine to make solo quests, but really uncool to not allow us all to go into the solo instances and continue doing the Quest Chain.

    Allow 6 ppl to go into the solo's!
    My first reaction was that this was a case of a bored hardcore trying to make fun of casual players...then...when you think about it....who cares if at least a pair was allowed to do a solo instance? It would hurt no one as far as I can see, and pairs are often doing solo quests in the main world...they enjoy it and that's all that counts.

    Hehe, it's kinda like not allowing the ones that want more challenge to be able to do like a 6 man with less because they have less players to split the loot up.

    In a sense, we spend all our time trying to build up our chars so we CAN do things easily. Let's face facts, most of us enjoy our alts because we can make them a little over powered.

    There's something just "right" about a alt that's all maxed out.

  18. #43
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    Wink Re: Stop all the solo quest walls.

    Tsk. You know, Aragorn brought a 5-man team into his solo Weathertop instance and just ended up having to carry the whole thing anyway.

    Worst... pug... ever!

    As for hitting the solo story wall, I think several folks have some reason to be pretty bitter on that front. I mean, seriously:

    Thorin organized an entire 14-man raid before he realized that the first half of the Lonely Mountain instance was solo-only - and pretty much impossible for anyone but a burglar.

    The rest of the raid ended up having to sit and twiddle their thumbs for days until the idiot burg finally beat the damn quest and opened up the storyline they needed to move on to the next stage of the encounter.

    Almost as bad as when the devs forced Frodo and Sam to disband their two-man questing fellowship in the middle of Cirith Ungol and made them run several hours of crazy statted solo-blocker instances before they could reform and move into the new Mordor expansion.

    <shakes head>

  19. #44
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    Re: Stop all the solo quest walls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    Tsk. You know, Aragorn brought a 5-man team into his solo Weathertop instance and just ended up having to carry the whole thing anyway.

    Worst... pug... ever!

    As for hitting the solo story wall, I think several folks have some reason to be pretty bitter on that front. I mean, seriously:

    Thorin organized an entire 14-man raid before he realized that the first half of the Lonely Mountain instance was solo-only - and pretty much impossible for anyone but a burglar.

    The rest of the raid ended up having to sit and twiddle their thumbs for days until the idiot burg finally beat the damn quest and opened up the storyline they needed to move on to the next stage of the encounter.

    Almost as bad as when the devs forced Frodo and Sam to disband their two-man questing fellowship in the middle of Cirith Ungol and made them run several hours of crazy statted solo-blocker instances before they could reform and move into the new Mordor expansion.

    <shakes head>
    See? Frustrating game mechanics have a clear lore basis!
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  20. #45
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    Re: Stop all the solo quest walls.

    Don't forget Boromir rage-quit because he couldn't get passed the solo, "Protect the Hobbits" instance.
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  21. #46
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    Re: Stop all the solo quest walls.

    Quote Originally Posted by gildhur View Post
    See? Frustrating game mechanics have a clear lore basis!
    Who'd have thunk it!? Vastin's on form today I see
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  22. #47
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    Re: Stop all the solo quest walls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vastin View Post
    Worst... pug... ever!
    And also don't forget when Frodo realized east of the Anduin was solo or duo! If it hadn't been for Sam, he'd have tried to solo the thing, and failed big time!

    And Merry and Pippin thinking they could duo Fangorn, until Treebeard showed up and carried the small fellowship (literally heehee) the rest of the way!

    Best PvMP small fellowship of all time, though: Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli...cappy, hunter, and guard, ready and willing to take on 2 full raids of orcs!
    Last edited by Angadan; Mar 04 2010 at 06:26 PM.

  23. #48
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    Re: Stop all the solo quest walls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angadan View Post
    Best PvMP small fellowship of all time, though: Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli...cappy, hunter, and guard, ready and willing to take on 2 full raids of orcs!
    Champ, but the combo still works.
    Arda Shrugged:Elendilstone

  24. #49

    Re: Stop all the solo quest walls.

    Quote Originally Posted by Angadan View Post
    Best PvMP small fellowship of all time, though: Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli...cappy, hunter, and guard, ready and willing to take on 2 full raids of orcs!
    You got the classes wrong....
    The Fellowships captain rage quit at Amon Hen...
    Acording to LOTRO Aragorn is a Warden, Legolas is a hunter, and Gimli is a Champion that never bought his Bow use skill at lvl 20...
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  25. #50
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    Re: Stop all the solo quest walls.

    Quote Originally Posted by bigsix66 View Post
    My minstrel friend did not find it easy at all. I won't be listing her name (even if you were on the same server) because, considering your attitude, help from you is the last thing she would want.
    And interestingly, in a solo instance, help from ANYONE is the LAST thing she could get.

    One of the points in my post - more difficult for some of my toons and requires an annoying break to go retrait. Rather than continue to play as a couple and have lots of fun, like we usually do.
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