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  1. #1

    Question What is the benefit of the different age LI's

    I've tried finding this info in this forum but have been unsuccessful. What practicle benefit is there to having a second age LI over a third age, and what benefit is there to having a first age over a second or third age? I know that it costs more to level second and first ages up (per the sticky on LI's), but what do I get for the added cost? Thanks in advance for any helpful info.

  2. #2
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    Re: What is the benefit of the different age LI's

    Some of the differences at the moment:
    - Total Legacy points (3rd < 2nd < 1st)
    - T9 Relics (no L61+ 1sts yet, so can't use T9 relics in them)
    - Crafted Relics (no L61+ 1sts yet, so can't use top relics in them)
    - Stat Legacies Max Value (3rd < 2nd < 3rd)
    - Max DPS (3rd < 2nd < 1st - at same level, but obviously no L65 1sts yet)

    I know of other differences on Burg ones, but am not sure whether they apply to other classes too.
    [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/duvi/"]Duvi[/URL]
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/04208000000038e43/01000/signature.png]Duvi[/charsig]
    [B][COLOR=RoyalBlue]Vastin[/COLOR][/B]: [I]"But whenever we take feedback on most game systems, such as character builds, economics, or [/I]especially[i] anything to do with PvP, then we are forced to read very carefully between the lines of any and all player feedback, as it is all inevitably skewed by self-investment, self-interest, and a deeply subjective viewpoint that increases in direct proportion to how long or successfully a player has occupied a particular role."[/I]

  3. #3
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    Re: What is the benefit of the different age LI's

    Quote Originally Posted by slack_n_hash View Post
    Some of the differences at the moment:
    - Total Legacy points (3rd < 2nd < 1st)
    - T9 Relics (no L61+ 1sts yet, so can't use T9 relics in them)
    - Crafted Relics (no L61+ 1sts yet, so can't use top relics in them)
    - Stat Legacies Max Value (3rd < 2nd < 3rd)
    - Max DPS (3rd < 2nd < 1st - at same level, but obviously no L65 1sts yet)

    I know of other differences on Burg ones, but am not sure whether they apply to other classes too.
    You also get little bonuses in addition to the legacies. A second age will have 1 bonus while first age will have 2.

    For example, a second age mini songbook may have -3% threat from healing, while a first age mini songbook may have -3% threat from healing and -5% power costs. My current first age burg tools has something like -10% tricks power cost and -5% melee skills power cost

  4. #4
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    Re: What is the benefit of the different age LI's

    Quote Originally Posted by slack_n_hash View Post
    Some of the differences at the moment:
    - Total Legacy points (3rd < 2nd < 1st)
    - T9 Relics (no L61+ 1sts yet, so can't use T9 relics in them)
    - Crafted Relics (no L61+ 1sts yet, so can't use top relics in them)
    - Stat Legacies Max Value (3rd < 2nd < 3rd)
    - Max DPS (3rd < 2nd < 1st - at same level, but obviously no L65 1sts yet)

    I know of other differences on Burg ones, but am not sure whether they apply to other classes too.
    This is what it used to be but I think it changed slightly (at least for the Moria LI's)

    -With all LI's going up to 60 in their IXP level (or 70 with a scroll of delving), I didn't see a difference in legacy points between the 3rd, 2nd and 1st ages (capped at 660 points) for Moria LI's

    -For Stat Legacy Max Values, My 2nd age tools have the same max values as 3rd age tools I find lying around

    -The SoM 2nd age LI has more legacy points to spend (around 700-something) compared to a SoM 3rd age.

    -After IXP level 30, 3rd age LI's only cost 20k IXP to level up. 2nd ages is 40k and 1st ages is more than that (can't remember offhand)

  5. #5

    Re: What is the benefit of the different age LI's

    First age LIs at level 70 get 830 points
    Second age LIs at level 70 get 750 points
    Third age LIs at level 70 get 670 points.

    There is no difference between a level 53 second age and a level 65 second age in terms of total points available.
    I want my "The Venomous" title back.

  6. #6

    Re: What is the benefit of the different age LI's

    1st and 2nd age weapon LI's have higher max dps ratings than 3rd age weapon LI's.

    3rd age LI's cannot ID with more than 3 legacies (there was a game bug when Mirkwood was released that let some 3rd Age LI's ID with 4 legacies but that was fixed in a patch). 1st and 2nd age LI's can ID with 4 legacies, so it's possible to have 7 legacies on a 1st or 2nd age LI. Anyone with a 3rd age LI with 7 legacies ID'd that 3rd age LI with 4 legacies before the devs patched the game bug.

    1st and 2nd age LI's get an extra passive stat that 3rd Age LI's don't. This is more obvious on class LI's rather than weapon LI's. As an example, 1st and 2nd age Minstrel Songbooks will have an extra stat for reduced threat that 3rd age Songbooks don't get. This extra stat is not a legacy, it cannot be changed by the player, it is put onto the LI when it is ID'd and never changes after that. Different class LI's get a different stat, Guard belts get a passive stat for more threat as another example. That stat itself isn't large, I've personally never seen a 2nd or 1st age guard belt with an extra threat stat higher than 6%.

    As others have said, 1st and 2nd age LI's get more legacy points per level compared to 3rd age LI's. I've heard but personally haven't seen that if you put a "stat" legacy (might vit, agil, will, fate) on an LI, you can get a couple more points in that stat at max rank on a 2nd or 1st age LI compared to a 3rd age LI. Considering the difference is only a few points or so, it's a small difference.

  7. #7
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    Re: What is the benefit of the different age LI's

    Quote Originally Posted by LavenderFire View Post
    This is what it used to be but I think it changed slightly (at least for the Moria LI's)

    -With all LI's going up to 60 in their IXP level (or 70 with a scroll of delving), I didn't see a difference in legacy points between the 3rd, 2nd and 1st ages (capped at 660 points) for Moria LI's

    -The SoM 2nd age LI has more legacy points to spend (around 700-something) compared to a SoM 3rd age.
    Iracham has given the numbers for these. Basically lower age weapons get more legacy points each time they level. They used to have the additional bonus of more levels too, which is why many people wouldn't have noticed the different rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by LavenderFire View Post
    -For Stat Legacy Max Values, My 2nd age tools have the same max values as 3rd age tools I find lying around
    By Stat Legacy Max values, I mean legacies like +Vitality. Fully ranked, these give +24 on a First Age but less on a Third Age.

    Quote Originally Posted by GarethB View Post
    3rd age LI's cannot ID with more than 3 legacies (there was a game bug when Mirkwood was released that let some 3rd Age LI's ID with 4 legacies but that was fixed in a patch).
    I read that too, but my own experience since that patch disproves it.

    Quote Originally Posted by GarethB View Post
    As others have said, 1st and 2nd age LI's get more legacy points per level compared to 3rd age LI's. I've heard but personally haven't seen that if you put a "stat" legacy (might vit, agil, will, fate) on an LI, you can get a couple more points in that stat at max rank on a 2nd or 1st age LI compared to a 3rd age LI. Considering the difference is only a few points or so, it's a small difference.
    Yep. Sorry for repeating above. Those 4 points of a stat are huge for a stat obsessed min-maxer, but I'd agree they have no impact on gameplay.
    [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/duvi/"]Duvi[/URL]
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/04208000000038e43/01000/signature.png]Duvi[/charsig]
    [B][COLOR=RoyalBlue]Vastin[/COLOR][/B]: [I]"But whenever we take feedback on most game systems, such as character builds, economics, or [/I]especially[i] anything to do with PvP, then we are forced to read very carefully between the lines of any and all player feedback, as it is all inevitably skewed by self-investment, self-interest, and a deeply subjective viewpoint that increases in direct proportion to how long or successfully a player has occupied a particular role."[/I]

  8. #8
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    Re: What is the benefit of the different age LI's

    I got my first First Age weapon (level 59 from a turtle run) last night, and the tiers of the legacies were considerably better than anything I have seen since Mirkwood was released.

    Generally with the 3rd age items, I see 2-3 legacies tier 1-3. This First Age had (iirr) 5 legacies with one tier 5 and the other four tier 3-4.

    Do the higher age LIs have better opening tier legacies, or was that pure luck on my part (they are also all VERY good legacies).

  9. #9
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    Re: What is the benefit of the different age LI's

    In my experience tier levels on L61+ LIs tend to start much lower than <L61 ones. It is not always the case though. There are still good L61+ and bad <L61s.

    However I have not seen any LIs ID with 5 legacies.
    [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/duvi/"]Duvi[/URL]
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/04208000000038e43/01000/signature.png]Duvi[/charsig]
    [B][COLOR=RoyalBlue]Vastin[/COLOR][/B]: [I]"But whenever we take feedback on most game systems, such as character builds, economics, or [/I]especially[i] anything to do with PvP, then we are forced to read very carefully between the lines of any and all player feedback, as it is all inevitably skewed by self-investment, self-interest, and a deeply subjective viewpoint that increases in direct proportion to how long or successfully a player has occupied a particular role."[/I]

  10. #10

    Re: What is the benefit of the different age LI's

    I'm sceptical about any LI IDing with 5 legacies, but considering the 4 legacy ID bug on 3rd age LI's, there might have been a bug that lets 5 legacies on ID sneak through now and then.

    Before Mirkwood launched, if all the legacies on an LI were at base tier 6, you'd get a new legacy during a reforge, even if it wasn't a reforge that normally adds a legacy, and if that legacy was also tier 6 you'd get another legacy at the next reforge, etc. I've seen screenshots of Moria LI's with 9 legacies, but they were very very rare and changes to the reforging process when Mirkwood launched means that can't happen any more.

  11. #11
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    Re: What is the benefit of the different age LI's

    So I understand that 1st > 2nd > 3rd... but how does item quality figure into the equation?

    For example, is a level 59 3rd age EPIC quality LI better than a level 65 3rd age RARE quality LI? If so, in what way(s)?

  12. #12
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    Re: What is the benefit of the different age LI's

    Quote Originally Posted by Meadbeard View Post
    So I understand that 1st > 2nd > 3rd... but how does item quality figure into the equation?

    For example, is a level 59 3rd age EPIC quality LI better than a level 65 3rd age RARE quality LI? If so, in what way(s)?
    There are not as many possible combinations as you think, as age determines "quality", independently of level:

    3rd Age = Purple
    2nd Age = Teal
    1st Age = Gold
    [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/duvi/"]Duvi[/URL]
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/04208000000038e43/01000/signature.png]Duvi[/charsig]
    [B][COLOR=RoyalBlue]Vastin[/COLOR][/B]: [I]"But whenever we take feedback on most game systems, such as character builds, economics, or [/I]especially[i] anything to do with PvP, then we are forced to read very carefully between the lines of any and all player feedback, as it is all inevitably skewed by self-investment, self-interest, and a deeply subjective viewpoint that increases in direct proportion to how long or successfully a player has occupied a particular role."[/I]

  13. #13

    Re: What is the benefit of the different age LI's

    Quote Originally Posted by Meadbeard View Post
    So I understand that 1st > 2nd > 3rd... but how does item quality figure into the equation?

    For example, is a level 59 3rd age EPIC quality LI better than a level 65 3rd age RARE quality LI? If so, in what way(s)?
    A 59lv First Age is inferior to 65 lv 3rd age in the primary statistics. Example; the 7th rank of damage on a 60lv Champions spear (max) is equal to only the 3rd rank of damage on a 65 level 3rd age Champ spear. The stats are similar on Minstrel books, etc. for their tactical healing and so forth.

  14. #14
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    Re: What is the benefit of the different age LI's

    Quote Originally Posted by aglach View Post
    A 59lv First Age is inferior to 65 lv 3rd age in the primary statistics. Example; the 7th rank of damage on a 60lv Champions spear (max) is equal to only the 3rd rank of damage on a 65 level 3rd age Champ spear. The stats are similar on Minstrel books, etc. for their tactical healing and so forth.
    Unfortunately that is not true of all LIs. I know the primary stat on Burglar Tools (incoming healing rate) in particular do not change between level 60 and 65, so all tools are the same for that. I think that was an error on Turbine's part, and it was intended to have a difference (when you look at the data on the AH for unidentified LIs it says +1770 incoming healing, but the max is only 1440 - same as a level 60 3rd age or level 60 1st age).

  15. #15

    Re: What is the benefit of the different age LI's

    Does anyone know what the breakdown in legacy points is per level? I seem to remember that you get more legacy points per level after every reforge, and that weapons get more legacy points than class items, but I cant find a chart or article with the specifics. Thanks for your help!
    If you aren't completely appalled, you haven't been paying attention!

  16. #16
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    Re: What is the benefit of the different age LI's

    Quote Originally Posted by aglach View Post
    Example; the 7th rank of damage on a 60lv Champions spear (max) is equal to only the 3rd rank of damage on a 65 level 3rd age Champ spear.
    Thanks, that's what I was wondering about.

    Based on that info, I find it puzzling why I see Level 59 first age (orange) weapons listed (I won't say they're necessarily selling) for 6-8G on the AH. /shrug

  17. #17
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    Re: What is the benefit of the different age LI's

    Quote Originally Posted by Meadbeard View Post
    Thanks, that's what I was wondering about.

    Based on that info, I find it puzzling why I see Level 59 first age (orange) weapons listed (I won't say they're necessarily selling) for 6-8G on the AH. /shrug
    I'd say three reasons:

    #1 - they often have better legacies than 3rd or 2nd age items.
    #2 - they have additional intrinsic benefits. For example (iirr) 1st age Captain emblems reduce aggro from healing and reduce power cost from healing. Those are just because it's a 1st age, and not tied to any legacy.
    #3 - you can use them at level 59, and their top end DPS (or primary trait like tactical damage or healing rate) will be compare favorably to a level 63/64 LI. In other words, at level 59 you can pick up this weapon and use it all the way to level 63/64. Then there's not much point in picking up a level 64 when you're a few hours play time from level 65 and a top end 3rd age LI... so likely you can use that 1st age LI all the way from 59 (or 60) to 65. Also, since you're using it through all those levels, chances are it will be leveled up very well, and could actually outperform a 3rd age until you get that third age up to level 20-30.

    It doesn't make as much sense for a level 65 player to pick up a 1st age item except for reasons #1 and #2 (which depending on the legacies could be valid) but for characters around level 60, it really does make sense - especially when you're getting better legacies (which I'm not sure of, but it seems to be the case from what I have been watching on the AH).

    Edit - by the way... some times like Runekeeper Satchels on Landroval (level 60 1st age) sell VERY QUICKLY at 15 gold, identified or not.

  18. #18
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    Re: What is the benefit of the different age LI's

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordraken View Post
    I'd say three reasons:

    #1 - they often have better legacies than 3rd or 2nd age items.
    #2 - they have additional intrinsic benefits. For example (iirr) 1st age Captain emblems reduce aggro from healing and reduce power cost from healing. Those are just because it's a 1st age, and not tied to any legacy.
    #3 - you can use them at level 59, and their top end DPS (or primary trait like tactical damage or healing rate) will be compare favorably to a level 63/64 LI. In other words, at level 59 you can pick up this weapon and use it all the way to level 63/64. Then there's not much point in picking up a level 64 when you're a few hours play time from level 65 and a top end 3rd age LI... so likely you can use that 1st age LI all the way from 59 (or 60) to 65. Also, since you're using it through all those levels, chances are it will be leveled up very well, and could actually outperform a 3rd age until you get that third age up to level 20-30.

    It doesn't make as much sense for a level 65 player to pick up a 1st age item except for reasons #1 and #2 (which depending on the legacies could be valid) but for characters around level 60, it really does make sense - especially when you're getting better legacies (which I'm not sure of, but it seems to be the case from what I have been watching on the AH).
    Gotcha, thanks. The overlap in DPS was what I was wondering about. On the surface, it made sense to me that First Age level 59 weapon may out DPS a level 65 Third Age.

    As it stands, I didn't bite (couldn't justify the 6 to 8 gold price tag for something that I would deconstruct in a few weeks) and ended up finding a nice level 61 Third Age halberd that should last me to 65.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mordraken View Post

    Edit - by the way... some times like Runekeeper Satchels on Landroval (level 60 1st age) sell VERY QUICKLY at 15 gold, identified or not.
    Geez... so here's a question: In general is it better to identify Second Age or First Age items before putting them up for sale?

    Seems like there's two schools of thought:

    1. If it's ****, it's better to not ID it and make someone pay for the privilege
    2. If it's awesome, it's better to ID it so you can get the best price

  19. #19
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    Re: What is the benefit of the different age LI's

    Quote Originally Posted by Meadbeard View Post
    Geez... so here's a question: In general is it better to identify Second Age or First Age items before putting them up for sale?

    Seems like there's two schools of thought:

    1. If it's ****, it's better to not ID it and make someone pay for the privilege
    2. If it's awesome, it's better to ID it so you can get the best price

    The only logical reason I can see for IDing before posting is if you want to use the item yourself.

    Otherwise, there are more bad IDs than good ones so it is better to rely on others' optimism.
    [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/elendilmir/duvi/"]Duvi[/URL]
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/04208000000038e43/01000/signature.png]Duvi[/charsig]
    [B][COLOR=RoyalBlue]Vastin[/COLOR][/B]: [I]"But whenever we take feedback on most game systems, such as character builds, economics, or [/I]especially[i] anything to do with PvP, then we are forced to read very carefully between the lines of any and all player feedback, as it is all inevitably skewed by self-investment, self-interest, and a deeply subjective viewpoint that increases in direct proportion to how long or successfully a player has occupied a particular role."[/I]

 

 

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