We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3
Results 51 to 64 of 64
  1. #51

    Re: S:P vs S:S -- is S:S really our best DPS tool??

    Quote Originally Posted by PhantomPunkk View Post
    Fast Draw is a very useless trait.
    By itself I would agree with you, but in conjunction with the hunstman line its not bad. It all depends on your specific situation though. There is no universal trait set up and virtually all of them have a time and a place they come in handy.
    Dawn has always been the hope of Men.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0120300000000a675/01000/signature.png]Jag[/charsig]

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    3,228

    Re: S:P vs S:S -- is S:S really our best DPS tool??

    Like I said earlier, I didn't think I had enough S:P & S:E tests, so I went back and added about a dozen of each, here's what I got when I added those in:
    S:E L60 Pûlpums (19): 202.16 DPS (baseline)
    S:S L60 Pûlpums (26): 218.25 DPS (base + 7.96%)
    S:P L60 Pûlpums (22): 207.83 DPS (base + 2.81%)
    Old test - S:P L60 Pûlpums (12) w/o Enduring Precision: 206.70 DPS (base + 2.25%)

    The number for S:E didn't change much, but S:P went down a lot. I don't know if the first set was unusually high or the second unusually low or both, but with 22 kills instead of 10, the average should be more accurate.

    The difference between my highs and lows in S:P bother me (high=264 / low=188). Obviously, that's what happens when you have crits to deal with, but I think I still need to do more S:P tests to get a truer average. At this point, neither S:P doesn't look nearly as good as it did at first.

    Another thing that bothers me, is how small the gap is between S:E and S:P and S:S. If S:S is supposed to give us a flat +15% damage bonus (in addition to the +10% crit damage bonus), why am I only getting 7%??
    [b][size=1][color=#7C8FA2][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/dahm"][color=#7C8FA2]Dahm[/color][/URL] [color=#2C3F52]65H[/color] | [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/thuli"][color=#7C8FA2]Thuli[/color][/URL] [color=#2C3F52]65G[/color] | [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/Dudarian"][color=#7C8FA2]Dudarian[/color][/URL] [color=#2C3F52]20W[/color] [color=#6C7F92]::[/color] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/kinship-brandywine-grey_wanderers/"][color=#7C8FA2]The Grey Wanderers[/color][/URL] of Brandywine[/color]
    [color=#4C5F72]and the stalled alts: [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/thaelen"][color=#4C5F72]Cappy @12[/color][/URL] [COLOR="#3C4F62"]|[/COLOR] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/kuruvar"][color=#4C5F72]RK @27[/color][/URL] [COLOR="#3C4F62"]|[/COLOR] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/kalthas"][color=#4C5F72]Mini @33[/color][/URL] [COLOR=#3C4F62]|[/COLOR] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/naldo"][color=#4C5F72]Burg @34[/color][/URL] [COLOR=#3C4F62]|[/COLOR] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/drekka"][color=#4C5F72]Champ @36[/color][/URL][/color]
    [color=#448877][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/vilya/dahms"][color=#448877]Dahm's Evil Twin[/color][/URL] [color=#2C3F52]31H[/color] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/kinship-vilya-and_my_awesome_friends/"][color=#448877]And My Awesome Friends[/color][/URL][color=#303030]_[/color] [URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=313143"][I][COLOR=DarkRed]a permadeath kin on Vilya[/COLOR][/URL][/I][/color][SIZE="3"][color=#303030]_[/color][/SIZE]

    [URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=92210"]Camp Site List[/URL] [/b][COLOR=#8C9FB2]||[/COLOR] [B][URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?338615-Regen&p=4742372#post4742372"]Regen (PIC/MIC) from Fate[/URL] [COLOR=#8C9FB2][/B]||[B] Convert Ratings to Percent[/B]: [B][/COLOR][URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?p=4082215#post4082215"]BPE/Crit/Etc.[/URL][/B][/size]

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    4,740

    Re: S:P vs S:S -- is S:S really our best DPS tool??

    To be honest with those numbers being updated from you Dom it just reminds me that Im not starting to want to just sit on HM trait setup and only take the BM ones I actually like. The Damage is small in difference and def not worth the extra Power Cost.

    Maybe I could do some tests too or summin. I suppose I should DL some program or something like that.
    Pariah Amistacia - Nimrodel - Leader of the Devils of Angmar

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Windfola
    Posts
    5,226

    Re: S:P vs S:S -- is S:S really our best DPS tool??

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom12 View Post
    Another thing that bothers me, is how small the gap is between S:E and S:P and S:S. If S:S is supposed to give us a flat +15% damage bonus (in addition to the +10% crit damage bonus), why am I only getting 7%??
    Is it only a skill damage bonus? If AAs are 30% of your damage, then only 70% is being increased by 15%... .7*.15 = 10% actual bonus.
    The smallest mimes of the gods of snow do not wish at all in their life that the great duty of the defences of the wine be diminished.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    3,228

    Re: S:P vs S:S -- is S:S really our best DPS tool??

    Quote Originally Posted by atteSmythe View Post
    Is it only a skill damage bonus? If AAs are 30% of your damage, then only 70% is being increased by 15%... .7*.15 = 10% actual bonus.
    It's "Ranged Damage" according to the tool tip ([skill]Stance: Strength[/skill]). That's a good question tho, probably something we could test pretty easy.. just need an AA crit in S:S and one not in S:S.

    But that's a very good point, in the pulpum tests, I'm spending a large portion of the fight in melee range. So my AAs are mostly melee anyway. I don't use a lot of melee attacks, but I do use a few, so each of those dilutes the S:S benefit.

    Taking a quick look at one of my S:S beta runs, 15.7% of my damage was from melee attacks (9.7 of that was melee AAs). So at most, 84.3% of my attacks were being affected by S:S in that case. That drops the 15% S:S bonus down to 12.6%. If your guess about ranged AAs were right, 25.5% of my damage was either melee or AA, leaving 74.5% affected by S:S and reducing the effective bonus to 11.2%.

    I still think there's something else going on there, but that certainly reduces the margin.
    [b][size=1][color=#7C8FA2][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/dahm"][color=#7C8FA2]Dahm[/color][/URL] [color=#2C3F52]65H[/color] | [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/thuli"][color=#7C8FA2]Thuli[/color][/URL] [color=#2C3F52]65G[/color] | [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/Dudarian"][color=#7C8FA2]Dudarian[/color][/URL] [color=#2C3F52]20W[/color] [color=#6C7F92]::[/color] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/kinship-brandywine-grey_wanderers/"][color=#7C8FA2]The Grey Wanderers[/color][/URL] of Brandywine[/color]
    [color=#4C5F72]and the stalled alts: [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/thaelen"][color=#4C5F72]Cappy @12[/color][/URL] [COLOR="#3C4F62"]|[/COLOR] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/kuruvar"][color=#4C5F72]RK @27[/color][/URL] [COLOR="#3C4F62"]|[/COLOR] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/kalthas"][color=#4C5F72]Mini @33[/color][/URL] [COLOR=#3C4F62]|[/COLOR] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/naldo"][color=#4C5F72]Burg @34[/color][/URL] [COLOR=#3C4F62]|[/COLOR] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/drekka"][color=#4C5F72]Champ @36[/color][/URL][/color]
    [color=#448877][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/vilya/dahms"][color=#448877]Dahm's Evil Twin[/color][/URL] [color=#2C3F52]31H[/color] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/kinship-vilya-and_my_awesome_friends/"][color=#448877]And My Awesome Friends[/color][/URL][color=#303030]_[/color] [URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=313143"][I][COLOR=DarkRed]a permadeath kin on Vilya[/COLOR][/URL][/I][/color][SIZE="3"][color=#303030]_[/color][/SIZE]

    [URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=92210"]Camp Site List[/URL] [/b][COLOR=#8C9FB2]||[/COLOR] [B][URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?338615-Regen&p=4742372#post4742372"]Regen (PIC/MIC) from Fate[/URL] [COLOR=#8C9FB2][/B]||[B] Convert Ratings to Percent[/B]: [B][/COLOR][URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?p=4082215#post4082215"]BPE/Crit/Etc.[/URL][/B][/size]

  6. #56

    Re: S:P vs S:S -- is S:S really our best DPS tool??

    S:Strength effects all ranged attacks, not just skills. It now (well, soon) effects the bleed from Barbed Arrow as well.
    [LEFT][SIZE=1][COLOR=DarkGreen][B]7 Level 65s: Champ, Hunter, Guardian, Captain, RK, LM, Burglar[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=1][COLOR=YellowGreen] [B]All of them are sick of grinding Scrolls of Empowerment[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=1][COLOR=Red][B]Awaiting change...[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]
    [/LEFT]

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    3,228

    Re: S:P vs S:S -- is S:S really our best DPS tool??

    Just made a minor update to the OP.. added 10 more S:P tests (for a slight increase in avg DPS) and added some theory discussion about S:S not giving 15% damage bonus. I think I'm done with this until I hit L65 & have time to kill again..
    [b][size=1][color=#7C8FA2][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/dahm"][color=#7C8FA2]Dahm[/color][/URL] [color=#2C3F52]65H[/color] | [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/thuli"][color=#7C8FA2]Thuli[/color][/URL] [color=#2C3F52]65G[/color] | [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/Dudarian"][color=#7C8FA2]Dudarian[/color][/URL] [color=#2C3F52]20W[/color] [color=#6C7F92]::[/color] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/kinship-brandywine-grey_wanderers/"][color=#7C8FA2]The Grey Wanderers[/color][/URL] of Brandywine[/color]
    [color=#4C5F72]and the stalled alts: [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/thaelen"][color=#4C5F72]Cappy @12[/color][/URL] [COLOR="#3C4F62"]|[/COLOR] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/kuruvar"][color=#4C5F72]RK @27[/color][/URL] [COLOR="#3C4F62"]|[/COLOR] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/kalthas"][color=#4C5F72]Mini @33[/color][/URL] [COLOR=#3C4F62]|[/COLOR] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/naldo"][color=#4C5F72]Burg @34[/color][/URL] [COLOR=#3C4F62]|[/COLOR] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/drekka"][color=#4C5F72]Champ @36[/color][/URL][/color]
    [color=#448877][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/vilya/dahms"][color=#448877]Dahm's Evil Twin[/color][/URL] [color=#2C3F52]31H[/color] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/kinship-vilya-and_my_awesome_friends/"][color=#448877]And My Awesome Friends[/color][/URL][color=#303030]_[/color] [URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=313143"][I][COLOR=DarkRed]a permadeath kin on Vilya[/COLOR][/URL][/I][/color][SIZE="3"][color=#303030]_[/color][/SIZE]

    [URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=92210"]Camp Site List[/URL] [/b][COLOR=#8C9FB2]||[/COLOR] [B][URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?338615-Regen&p=4742372#post4742372"]Regen (PIC/MIC) from Fate[/URL] [COLOR=#8C9FB2][/B]||[B] Convert Ratings to Percent[/B]: [B][/COLOR][URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?p=4082215#post4082215"]BPE/Crit/Etc.[/URL][/B][/size]

  8. #58

    Re: S:P vs S:S -- is S:S really our best DPS tool??

    Could you possibly do one more test with a 403 trait? (i think) that increases S:S to i think ... +40%?

  9. #59

    Re: S:P vs S:S -- is S:S really our best DPS tool??

    4/0/3 puts damage at +25%, threat at +30%, and power at +40%.
    [LEFT][SIZE=1][COLOR=DarkGreen][B]7 Level 65s: Champ, Hunter, Guardian, Captain, RK, LM, Burglar[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=1][COLOR=YellowGreen] [B]All of them are sick of grinding Scrolls of Empowerment[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=1][COLOR=Red][B]Awaiting change...[/B][/COLOR][/SIZE]
    [/LEFT]

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Windfola
    Posts
    5,226

    Re: S:P vs S:S -- is S:S really our best DPS tool??

    The upshot, IMO, is that depending how bad b/p/e are in SoM, S:P has a real chance of being just as damaging as S:S without the threat and power penalties. I'll miss my QS slow when solo, but with the faster combat, maybe switching stances won't take up so much useful shot time as it does on Live. (or, worst case, I start using BA to open instead of QS...man, if we could get that QS slow legacy to apply to BA's slow too...)
    The smallest mimes of the gods of snow do not wish at all in their life that the great duty of the defences of the wine be diminished.

  11. #61
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    3,228

    Re: S:P vs S:S -- is S:S really our best DPS tool??

    Quote Originally Posted by Delphi66 View Post
    Could you possibly do one more test with a 403 trait? (i think) that increases S:S to i think ... +40%?
    I honestly don't see the value in 403 builds. Some people use them, and that's great for them, but I doubt a 403 would ever be something I'd condone. I guess for PvP (which I do not do) or solo if you're not getting into any longish fights, it may have its place.. I might give it a go, just cause I don't have much else to keep me busy until Dec 1.

    Enduring Precision would be the obvious HM trait to drop.. I'm currently using Critical Eye, Deadly Precision & Swift & True. Which do you think would be the most beneficial trait to add as the 4th BM? I typically use RoA once per S:S fight, so Hail of Arrows probably isn't worth it. I don't use HS, so Shot thru the Heart is out. I get enough focus for Merciful shot in a decent amount of the S:P fights, but usually not in S:S, so Quality of Mercy is out. I guess that leaves True Shot. So forget I asked.. I'll drop Enduring Precision for True Shot and give this a go next time I have some time to kill.
    [b][size=1][color=#7C8FA2][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/dahm"][color=#7C8FA2]Dahm[/color][/URL] [color=#2C3F52]65H[/color] | [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/thuli"][color=#7C8FA2]Thuli[/color][/URL] [color=#2C3F52]65G[/color] | [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/Dudarian"][color=#7C8FA2]Dudarian[/color][/URL] [color=#2C3F52]20W[/color] [color=#6C7F92]::[/color] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/kinship-brandywine-grey_wanderers/"][color=#7C8FA2]The Grey Wanderers[/color][/URL] of Brandywine[/color]
    [color=#4C5F72]and the stalled alts: [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/thaelen"][color=#4C5F72]Cappy @12[/color][/URL] [COLOR="#3C4F62"]|[/COLOR] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/kuruvar"][color=#4C5F72]RK @27[/color][/URL] [COLOR="#3C4F62"]|[/COLOR] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/kalthas"][color=#4C5F72]Mini @33[/color][/URL] [COLOR=#3C4F62]|[/COLOR] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/naldo"][color=#4C5F72]Burg @34[/color][/URL] [COLOR=#3C4F62]|[/COLOR] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/drekka"][color=#4C5F72]Champ @36[/color][/URL][/color]
    [color=#448877][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/vilya/dahms"][color=#448877]Dahm's Evil Twin[/color][/URL] [color=#2C3F52]31H[/color] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/kinship-vilya-and_my_awesome_friends/"][color=#448877]And My Awesome Friends[/color][/URL][color=#303030]_[/color] [URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=313143"][I][COLOR=DarkRed]a permadeath kin on Vilya[/COLOR][/URL][/I][/color][SIZE="3"][color=#303030]_[/color][/SIZE]

    [URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=92210"]Camp Site List[/URL] [/b][COLOR=#8C9FB2]||[/COLOR] [B][URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?338615-Regen&p=4742372#post4742372"]Regen (PIC/MIC) from Fate[/URL] [COLOR=#8C9FB2][/B]||[B] Convert Ratings to Percent[/B]: [B][/COLOR][URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?p=4082215#post4082215"]BPE/Crit/Etc.[/URL][/B][/size]

  12. #62
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    3,228

    Re: S:P vs S:S -- is S:S really our best DPS tool??

    Alright, so I did the 403 test, and here's the results (full details added to the OP):

    The Results:
    S:E L60 Pûlpums (19): 202.16 DPS (baseline)
    S:S L60 Pûlpums (26): 218.25 DPS (base + 7.96% -- 4.70% increase over S:P)
    S:S in a 403 Build (30): 228.45 DPS (base + 13.00% -- 4.67% increase over S:S 304)
    S:P L60 Pûlpums (32): 208.46 DPS (base + 3.12%)
    old test - S:P L60 Pûlpums (12) w/o Enduring Precision: 206.70 DPS (base + 2.25%)

    So from the advertised 10% increase in S:S damage, I'm seeing 4.67%. A the cost of +10% threat and +15% power. As discussed above, part of the loss comes from the fact I'm in melee part of the time (around 20% of my damage is from melee attacks). So if you're in a position where you can keep the mob at range, you'll benefit more. Still, the cost is awfully high for what you are gaining here.
    Last edited by Dom12; Nov 19 2009 at 10:11 AM.
    [b][size=1][color=#7C8FA2][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/dahm"][color=#7C8FA2]Dahm[/color][/URL] [color=#2C3F52]65H[/color] | [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/thuli"][color=#7C8FA2]Thuli[/color][/URL] [color=#2C3F52]65G[/color] | [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/Dudarian"][color=#7C8FA2]Dudarian[/color][/URL] [color=#2C3F52]20W[/color] [color=#6C7F92]::[/color] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/kinship-brandywine-grey_wanderers/"][color=#7C8FA2]The Grey Wanderers[/color][/URL] of Brandywine[/color]
    [color=#4C5F72]and the stalled alts: [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/thaelen"][color=#4C5F72]Cappy @12[/color][/URL] [COLOR="#3C4F62"]|[/COLOR] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/kuruvar"][color=#4C5F72]RK @27[/color][/URL] [COLOR="#3C4F62"]|[/COLOR] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/kalthas"][color=#4C5F72]Mini @33[/color][/URL] [COLOR=#3C4F62]|[/COLOR] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/naldo"][color=#4C5F72]Burg @34[/color][/URL] [COLOR=#3C4F62]|[/COLOR] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/brandywine/drekka"][color=#4C5F72]Champ @36[/color][/URL][/color]
    [color=#448877][URL="http://my.lotro.com/character/vilya/dahms"][color=#448877]Dahm's Evil Twin[/color][/URL] [color=#2C3F52]31H[/color] [URL="http://my.lotro.com/kinship-vilya-and_my_awesome_friends/"][color=#448877]And My Awesome Friends[/color][/URL][color=#303030]_[/color] [URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=313143"][I][COLOR=DarkRed]a permadeath kin on Vilya[/COLOR][/URL][/I][/color][SIZE="3"][color=#303030]_[/color][/SIZE]

    [URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=92210"]Camp Site List[/URL] [/b][COLOR=#8C9FB2]||[/COLOR] [B][URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?338615-Regen&p=4742372#post4742372"]Regen (PIC/MIC) from Fate[/URL] [COLOR=#8C9FB2][/B]||[B] Convert Ratings to Percent[/B]: [B][/COLOR][URL="http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?p=4082215#post4082215"]BPE/Crit/Etc.[/URL][/B][/size]

  13. #63
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Windfola
    Posts
    5,226

    Re: S:P vs S:S -- is S:S really our best DPS tool??

    Confirmed that AA damage is properly affected by S:S. 4/0/3 shows a 25% increase in damage between S:S and no stance.
    The smallest mimes of the gods of snow do not wish at all in their life that the great duty of the defences of the wine be diminished.

  14. #64
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Long Island, NY
    Posts
    1,063

    Re: S:P vs S:S -- is S:S really our best DPS tool??

    Bumping for mathnerdery's sake.
    Nemesis - Brandywine
    Jenith 100 Hunter || Gavigan 78 Guardian || Kazamir 76 Captain
    Gjorn 65 Champion || Anavel 65 Burglar || Thissis 100 Warden || Mezimus 70 Loremaster

 

 
Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 1 2 3

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload