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  1. #76
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    1,051

    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by SGWB View Post
    If a champ is pulling aggro off the tank, no matter what class it is, he is not doing his job.
    Correct.

    But the question is...why is your captain the tank?

    Because that's essentially what you're saying.
    Last edited by Felaedor; Apr 17 2010 at 09:30 PM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000018f9c7/signature.png]Felaedor[/charsig]

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    1,651

    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Felaedor View Post
    Correct.

    But the question is...why is your captain the tank?

    Because that's essentially what you're saying.
    Because sometimes you go with the group you have, not with the group you want.

    A Champ traited and equipped for tanking sacrifices a lot of DPS. A Captain equipped for tanking does not. If you don't have a proper tank class, why not have the Champ do what he does best and let the Captain tank. It may not work out for trash pulls, but it works great for single-target fights.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/03202000000003071/01008/signature.png]Kalbarad[/charsig]

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    457

    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    The champ has much better skills for off tanking then a captain, and they have much better abilities to control agro then captains.

    Yes Captains can tank but i would rather have a champ trait for tanking then a captain as there will be less of a chance of loosing agro and having mobs run to the healers.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000015b084/01008/signature.png]Dropofhoney[/charsig]

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    1,051

    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by SGWB View Post
    Because sometimes you go with the group you have, not with the group you want.

    A Champ traited and equipped for tanking sacrifices a lot of DPS. A Captain equipped for tanking does not. If you don't have a proper tank class, why not have the Champ do what he does best and let the Captain tank. It may not work out for trash pulls, but it works great for single-target fights.
    A Champion doesn't have to trait or stance swap to anything but DPS to be a MORE than adequate tank for anything but the raid.

    Proven time and time again.

    I ask again...Why is your Captain tanking?...I certainly hope it's not because you're "taking the group you have" into BG.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000018f9c7/signature.png]Felaedor[/charsig]

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    1,651

    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    Let me preface that I am not talking about multiple-mob pulls or raid tanking. The Champ is the obvious better choice for that. I'm talking about single-target tanking, off-tanking, or tanking in a lot of 3-man content.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pillager101 View Post
    The champ has much better skills for off tanking then a captain, and they have much better abilities to control agro then captains.

    Yes Captains can tank but i would rather have a champ trait for tanking then a captain as there will be less of a chance of loosing agro and having mobs run to the healers.
    For off tanking aggro skills don't matter. When all that has to be done is to lock down one or two mobs, I'd rather have the champ stay on the main DPS target and DPS, It's what the class was built for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Felaedor View Post
    A Champion doesn't have to trait or stance swap to anything but DPS to be a MORE than adequate tank for anything but the raid.

    Proven time and time again.

    I ask again...Why is your Captain tanking?...I certainly hope it's not because you're "taking the group you have" into BG.
    BG? Hardly. But yeah, I have had to tank many instances because it's what we had or because people were taking their alts through content. It happens. For single target tanking, I believe a Captain is a better choice than a Champ. If I can hold a single target against a hunter, I can do it against a champ who is not using taunts.

    Although, speaking of BG, we typically have the Captains stand shoulder to shoulder with the guards against the first boss to help absorb the distributed AOE. Why? Because Captains typically have more moral and better damage mitigation, and because we need the Champs to DPS on the adds and get them down.
    Last edited by SGWB; Apr 20 2010 at 01:37 PM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/03202000000003071/01008/signature.png]Kalbarad[/charsig]

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    457

    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    I still say that Champ is better at tanking as their DPS is still better then captains in Glory and they can go into Fervor tanking with CB.
    Also if you have SoW legacy you can keep that on the champ at all times giving them an extra +20 inc healing reducing Fervor penalty to -10. Less if they have Inc healing relics.

    Now i think it is better to put Telling mark on the mob then noble mark to maintain agro.
    Also i am sure that it will be very easy for the champ to pull agro from the captain, if you want them to DPS, if they have to hold off, then you are already loosing DPS so might as well get them to tank and the captain do what they are better at and off heal.

    Lets face it, Captains and Champs are both off tanks. Captains are also off healers.
    We do the second job much better then the first, so let the champ get in there and either tank in Fervor and CB or glory.

    DPS wise i do not see much of a difference. Agro management wise i see the champ doing a better job keeping the main mob then a captain and the captain is free to increase the damage taken or healing by giving them 2 marks to use instead of Noble.

    But this is my preference, i see champs having better skills for tanking or off tanking then captains

    As to you holding agro from a hunter, you have a smart hunter that knows how to hold off, and at the same time decreasing DPS output.
    Again you are also losing Telling Mark and revealing mark which are significant boosts to DPS and a good amount of healing for hunters and champs.
    Last edited by Pillager101; Apr 20 2010 at 02:31 PM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000015b084/01008/signature.png]Dropofhoney[/charsig]

  7. #82
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Ft Lewis, WA
    Posts
    776

    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by MyotisSodalis View Post
    On all my other characters, will is the lowest stat and fate is second lowest. Does will matter for captains? You need power as a cap. However, you need everything else too. My cap is now level 33. For a while in his 20s fate and will were his highest stats by a large margin. Now he is more balanced with fate and vitality highest and will lowest. I am not too concerned at 33 but wonder what most caps look like at level 60.

    Do you ignore Will? What about fate? Do people min/max or try to achieve some balance with their captains? What stats are most important for the captain?
    Rather than stack for might, agility and vitality, I stacked for Will and Fate to be useful in group and raid quests and I switch when doing solo. So I've worked on all deeds related to have 10s in as many as possible, so I have that flexibility.

    Carthaen has 400 will and 400 fate and 419 vitality

    [QUOTE=Dol_Amroth_Knight;461368 1]
    Last edited by Macgregor1821; May 02 2010 at 07:00 PM. Reason: add picture for health and power bar comparison
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0b20c0000000beb27/signature.png]Pibb[/charsig]

    Pre-RoI R8 warg Brandywine R7 BA Brandywine R5 WL Brandywine R5 Warg Landroval R6 warg Vilya R5 BA Vilya

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    261

    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    After getting the DN set and the loss of will associated with that ive come to realize how little importance it plays for a cappy. With 310 will my WoC does 406-580 and with 606 will in 4 watcher pieces with DN shoulders and +25 helm WoC does 431-615 healing. Nearly 300 stat difference for roughly 30 points of healing is a huge waste IMO. Will serves only as a base to increase your total power, and the inherent healing ability is more than enough. those 300 points spread out around other stats will increase mitigation, damage, resists, and icpr/icmr, resulting in a much more balanced build with much better survivability.

    With the DN set and +25 helm my stats sit at roughly 500 might, 500 agility, 600 vit, 311 will, 311 fate with IDOME active and the morale banner. Both bracelets and cloak have no morale on them and I get to nearly 7700 morale, 3000 power. Main healing any instance is a breeze through trash allowing the minnie or rk to DPS until boss fights. That said, it is easy enough to main heal most boss fights, especially any with adds that spawn. Perhaps if will had some connection to tactical resists it might be worth putting points into, but as it stands now I think other stats should come first.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/08207000000007e90/signature.png]Esthero[/charsig]

    Vertigo - 65 Captain - Pariah
    Escyndir - 65 Champion - Pariah
    Dartsk - Murder Herd

  9. #84

    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raowyn View Post
    Misinformation .
    You're heals are way low, it's no wonder you think will is trash.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d00000001afe5/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]
    "For those who don't build, must burn"
    The Immoveable Stone in your World of Weak
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    Awesome drips off me like Gatorade-colored UBER

  10. #85
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    261

    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    Im sorry, 606 will is low? My 65 2nd age emblem has SoW,RC CD, RC Healing, and Melee healing, so perhaps the 15% less without vocal healing makes WoC seem low. However, I would argue that the inherent 19 healing lvl makes up for a lvl 60 first age emblem with 15 inherent healing. Besides, the point is the increase associated with will is marginally low compared to the many other durability and dps increases when improving other stats. If there is any other way to increase the amount of healing done I would love to hear it.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/08207000000007e90/signature.png]Esthero[/charsig]

    Vertigo - 65 Captain - Pariah
    Escyndir - 65 Champion - Pariah
    Dartsk - Murder Herd

 

 
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