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  1. #26

    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    I pretty much run with two different sets of gear at this point. Although will does give a rather pathetic increase to our healing, it still gives something. If you are finding yourself in a situation where you are just there spam WoC, and RC frequently, you may want to consider going with a will build. Although an extra 10% healing doesn't mean all that much, it certainly does help.

    If you take the base WoC untraited, you end up with something like a 284-350 heal or so. Once you trait it, it ends up being like 350 - 450. Once you get a decent emblem with THR maxed, along with Vocals you will end up around 525 - 625. Once you move to a will build, you can move this up to around 600 - 700. Now, when you spam WoC, you do lose out of the HoT affect, but if you are using WoC in the most optimal way, along with inspire, you can put out some impressive heal numbers. Even when spamming WoC, your healing is still pretty darn good, because you can do it while running or kiting and obviously, with no interuptions as you have no induction.

    A few months ago, I really believed that a minstrel (I also play a 65 minnie) was a superior healer, and in some cases they are, but I am certainly convinced at this point that a captain is also a top notch healer as well. Some of the captains here have said it all along, it took me a while to agree, but now I do.

    And with everything else, a captain takes time to learn how to play properly. I find myself still improving at playing the class. I am not sure if I will ever stop improving. The class isn't as easy to play as it sounds...
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0120300000003a9db/01008/signature.png]Artaxerxes[/charsig]

  2. #27
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    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by IGolbezI View Post
    yep that's a point I always try to make. but if you're doing fine on everything else (such as, you're fine on power, and you don't die), no reason to not go for will if it's a simple X over Y.
    I agree completely, if you are fine and can get extra will in then go for it.
    My issue is with people saying that you NEED will more then some other things which is not really true.
    I would rather get a high moral pool and better mitigations and a bigger power pool from +power items then high will. Fill in Will with the left overs.

    As for healing the best improvement to your healing comes from gear and legacies not will.

    5 Peace of DN set, 2A 65 emblem with +Vocal, +RC CD, +RC Healing.
    Weapon with +PA Targets.

    Additionally try to have +Telling mark and +PA Crit on the weapon and -cry power costs does not hurt.

    These will give you efficient healing.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000015b084/01008/signature.png]Dropofhoney[/charsig]

  3. #28
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    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by MyotisSodalis View Post
    On all my other characters, will is the lowest stat and fate is second lowest. Does will matter for captains? You need power as a cap. However, you need everything else too. My cap is now level 33. For a while in his 20s fate and will were his highest stats by a large margin. Now he is more balanced with fate and vitality highest and will lowest. I am not too concerned at 33 but wonder what most caps look like at level 60.

    Do you ignore Will? What about fate? Do people min/max or try to achieve some balance with their captains? What stats are most important for the captain?
    Fate and Vitality are my number one stats, so I would consider these two your most important. Captains use a lot of power, as they both melee and heal, so you need strong ICPR to keep up, especially on the longer fights. Vitality is a no brainer, as you are a melee class so get beat on a lot, so Vitality is also vital.

    Does Will matter? In my opinion. no.

    I did a thread on Will while back. It scales horrible for healing, and does almost nothing. Roughly, 100 Will adds a whopping increase of 10 to your base heals, which is nothing I think most can agree. It's only real worth is the added power it gives, which is nice - but obviously concentrating on raw power increases would be better. Will is definitely NOT a stat I would focus on as a captain.

  4. #29
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    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raowyn View Post
    Indeed it is a puzzle, I suppose it is necessity to be a capt of all trades. As for the short sighted comment, it could just as easily be argued that fate is more important than will during those HoT's since more of them will crit. It's really a moot point. HoT's dont save groups in tough fights, and more crits means more reactionaries. I realize its a preference of play style, and I would rather have a greater chance of critting to restore morale/power to the whole group instead of expending both morale/power on one target.
    The problem with your theory is the critical rate on this game caps at 15%. You cannot rely on a 15% chance to crit to save anyone when fighting single targets, it's too rare. HoTs and your direct heals are consistent and reliable, and far more efficient at saving people then hoping against the odds you will trigger a crit with your devastating blow when your up against a boss.
    Last edited by Jeremi; Apr 07 2010 at 05:56 AM.

  5. #30
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    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    I think I can rely on a 15% chance more than the miniscule increase from higher will. I believe Pillager explained it best stating our legacies and relics add more to our heals than will does. Spamming WoC to save a group can not be considered efficient imo. Our two biggest HoTs are Valiant Strike and Inspire, and we do less DPS when trying to help the minnie/rk bring back up a hurting group with WoC. Getting a rallying cry more often relieves pressure on the minnies while we continue to DPS and allow captains to maximize their benefit as a hybrid role. Im not hoping against the odds im playing their probabilities.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/08207000000007e90/signature.png]Esthero[/charsig]

    Vertigo - 65 Captain - Pariah
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  6. #31
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    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pillager101 View Post
    Think about it this way, Will is a % increase in healing. So for Minstrels and RKs it is a must as it helps them with their heals. For captains you need to consider the base heal and the HoT. WoC base heal is 500-600 AVG. You can not compare that to a mini BC heal which starts at 1K
    Also our HoT for RC is in the what 20-40 or avg?

    To give up Fate, or Vit for a mediocre gain of 10-20 moral per use is not thinking. Unlike RKs and Minis which live by Will due its +Power and Healing output plus the tactical rating, Captains have other things to worry about.
    We need our large moral pools hence Vit, we need goo Agi for crit and we need Fate for the ICPR and Will for the healing and +Power. I would not stack Will on a captain ever since the pay off is just not worth it. You lower your abilities just to get a pitiful increase in your healing skills.

    As for the person who says fate is last on their list. A Large pools means nothing with low ICPR and it is a lot easier for us to boost our ICPR to get to full then it is to fill up a large Power Pool. Remember we are NOT mini or RKs. Anything more then 3.5 K power is a waste, with the exception of some fight like the LT fight where i say throw on a +power shield and a 1H.

    Again will is a % increase and even 100% increase of a low number is still a low number.
    I agree that having more than 3.5k power or so can be a waste but at what point does one say having extra morale is a waste? Sure it looks impressive but how often is 9000+ morale really matter in a group/raid situation? Captain's are usually fairly low on the agro list so unless it's your job to be off tank you don't need it for that. The morale drain from WoC, even if you are doing nothing but using it every time it's up isn't the limiting factor (power would be.) Even at 'only' 7500-8000 fully buffed I am going to be the last one to die with IHW/LS anyway. Shrug I guess I just never understood the big morale pool thing. Maybe it's just an e-peen thing.

    Regarding fate, my ministrel is near cap on fate which gives him near 1200 ICPR with a shield and my captain is around 900 or so with a mediocre fate (365?) so the difference in 360 and 640 is about 200 ICPR (shield is almost 100.) It's not nothing but the items with fate don't typically also have might/agility in large quantities so it seems like a fairly big trade off to me. And I personally wouldn't build for ICMR. Between HoTs on Muster courage and RC and ICMR bonus from banner, fate related ICMR seems to be a relatively small factor.

    Personally, I play my captain in the role that IMO they can have the biggest impact, off-healer. Buffer requires no special build (besides an LI or 3) and I haven't found any substantial way to increase my DPS...which in my mind, leaves healing. As such, in a group, I will switch to quite a bit of will gear and try to heal. If you don't care about healing, don't worry about it. In regard to will, the way I look at it is this: If 15-20% increase in healing wasn't a big deal then why would I go out of my way to get an emblem with +15% vocal healing and +15% rallying cry healing? Why not just go with only RC CD, Muster courage CD, Strength of Will increase, shield of dunedain CD, Focus buff, etc etc, replace healing ones with stat legacies and ignore the healing ones completely? I mean if 15% of a small # just isn't worth it, why bother at all?

    I am not trying to say Will is THE most important stat and you should try to max it to 650. But IF you want to heal I don't really see alot of downside to swapping in Will gear for might/agility stuff. Vit is pretty much on either type of item so no loss there. Plus items with Will often have very large chunks of it (see earrings and rings, 38-45 easily on each one). So with almost no effort you could get 150-175 Will boost from swapping 2 rings and earrings.
    Last edited by AceItcher; Apr 08 2010 at 02:04 PM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a000000003fef/signature.png]Jungo[/charsig]
    Herkamur - 65 Dwarf Guardian Roadblock, Gabby - 65 Man Captain Buffmaster,
    Gugwyn - 65 Man Champion, Fandarian - 62 Elf Hunter, Eoshan - 60 Man Burglar,
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  7. #32
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    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raowyn View Post
    I think I can rely on a 15% chance more than the miniscule increase from higher will. I believe Pillager explained it best stating our legacies and relics add more to our heals than will does. Spamming WoC to save a group can not be considered efficient imo. Our two biggest HoTs are Valiant Strike and Inspire, and we do less DPS when trying to help the minnie/rk bring back up a hurting group with WoC. Getting a rallying cry more often relieves pressure on the minnies while we continue to DPS and allow captains to maximize their benefit as a hybrid role. Im not hoping against the odds im playing their probabilities.
    Think you misunderstood me. I too prefer Melee Crit raiting over Will, but that isn't what i'm saying.

    If you depend on a 15% chance to activate a rally cry to heal your tank on a boss fight for example and neglect using words of courage, that is going to be one dead tank. A direct heal you can use at at will every 3 seconds is far more reliable than a 15% chance to crit.

    Rally cry is a great heal in a lot of situations, but doesn't trump words of courage. That's what i'm saying.
    Last edited by Jeremi; Apr 08 2010 at 10:15 PM.

  8. #33
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    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by AceItcher View Post
    Personally, I play my captain in the role that IMO they can have the biggest impact, off-healer. Buffer requires no special build (besides an LI or 3) and I haven't found any substantial way to increase my DPS...which in my mind, leaves healing. As such, in a group, I will switch to quite a bit of will gear and try to heal. If you don't care about healing, don't worry about it. In regard to will, the way I look at it is this: If 15-20% increase in healing wasn't a big deal then why would I go out of my way to get an emblem with +15% vocal healing and +15% rallying cry healing? Why not just go with only RC CD, Muster courage CD, Strength of Will increase, shield of dunedain CD, Focus buff, etc etc, replace healing ones with stat legacies and ignore the healing ones completely? I mean if 15% of a small # just isn't worth it, why bother at all?

    I am not trying to say Will is THE most important stat and you should try to max it to 650. But IF you want to heal I don't really see alot of downside to swapping in Will gear for might/agility stuff. Vit is pretty much on either type of item so no loss there. Plus items with Will often have very large chunks of it (see earrings and rings, 38-45 easily on each one). So with almost no effort you could get 150-175 Will boost from swapping 2 rings and earrings.

    175 Will will only add you like 20 extra points to your heal. That isn't worth the four spots in your inventory swapping jewlery would create if you ask me.

    Will isn't a bad stat if you are after more power, but for increasing your heals it is indeed a waste IMHO. It's just a very weak stat that scales horribly into healing numbers for Captains. It's just not worth focusing on. There are better stats to get in it's place.

  9. #34
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    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    Captains need a relatively balanced build since they do almost everything (except cc). I focus on vit, will, fate, might, agility, pretty much in that order, but without a large range between them.

    I like to maximize my heals so that's why I have will so high on the list.
    [U]Gladden - Thronnos Rokke Clan[/U]
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  10. #35
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    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by coreyb View Post
    Captains need a relatively balanced build since they do almost everything (except cc). I focus on vit, will, fate, might, agility, pretty much in that order, but without a large range between them.

    I like to maximize my heals so that's why I have will so high on the list.


    650 Will, assuming you cap it will maximaize your heals by 65 points, or something very close to that. If 65 extra morale on your heals is worth it to you, then by all means have at it. To me though, such a puny increase to my heals just isn't worth the sacrifice, and I'd rather have another stat in its place that gives more benefit.

    Now if you stack will for the extra power, rather than to maximize your heals - that I can understand a little more from a personal standpoint. But to each their own. If it's worth it to you, then that's what matters - just as long as you understand how bad it actually scales with the captain's healing.

    I also disagree captains need a balanced build to be effective. I also disagree we can't CC, as Heralds can do that nicely.
    Last edited by Jeremi; Apr 08 2010 at 11:23 PM.

  11. #36
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    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    Yeah I Definately hit WoC when the tank gets low. Stop everything im doing and spam it. However, im not going to use it to top off someone at 3/4 health.

    I only want enough will so that I dont run out of power easily. My will sits at 420 now and 3k power, and am happy I no longer need to chug blue juice during trash mobs.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/08207000000007e90/signature.png]Esthero[/charsig]

    Vertigo - 65 Captain - Pariah
    Escyndir - 65 Champion - Pariah
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  12. #37
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    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by AceItcher View Post
    I agree that having more than 3.5k power or so can be a waste but at what point does one say having extra morale is a waste? Sure it looks impressive but how often is 9000+ morale really matter in a group/raid situation? Captain's are usually fairly low on the agro list so unless it's your job to be off tank you don't need it for that. The morale drain from WoC, even if you are doing nothing but using it every time it's up isn't the limiting factor (power would be.) Even at 'only' 7500-8000 fully buffed I am going to be the last one to die with IHW/LS anyway. Shrug I guess I just never understood the big morale pool thing. Maybe it's just an e-peen thing.

    Regarding fate, my ministrel is near cap on fate which gives him near 1200 ICPR with a shield and my captain is around 900 or so with a mediocre fate (365?) so the difference in 360 and 640 is about 200 ICPR (shield is almost 100.) It's not nothing but the items with fate don't typically also have might/agility in large quantities so it seems like a fairly big trade off to me. And I personally wouldn't build for ICMR. Between HoTs on Muster courage and RC and ICMR bonus from banner, fate related ICMR seems to be a relatively small factor.

    Personally, I play my captain in the role that IMO they can have the biggest impact, off-healer. Buffer requires no special build (besides an LI or 3) and I haven't found any substantial way to increase my DPS...which in my mind, leaves healing. As such, in a group, I will switch to quite a bit of will gear and try to heal. If you don't care about healing, don't worry about it. In regard to will, the way I look at it is this: If 15-20% increase in healing wasn't a big deal then why would I go out of my way to get an emblem with +15% vocal healing and +15% rallying cry healing? Why not just go with only RC CD, Muster courage CD, Strength of Will increase, shield of dunedain CD, Focus buff, etc etc, replace healing ones with stat legacies and ignore the healing ones completely? I mean if 15% of a small # just isn't worth it, why bother at all?

    I am not trying to say Will is THE most important stat and you should try to max it to 650. But IF you want to heal I don't really see alot of downside to swapping in Will gear for might/agility stuff. Vit is pretty much on either type of item so no loss there. Plus items with Will often have very large chunks of it (see earrings and rings, 38-45 easily on each one). So with almost no effort you could get 150-175 Will boost from swapping 2 rings and earrings.
    I agree that a high moral pool is not essential, i am running with 8.5k moral and i am happy.
    I have around 450 fate with 1.1k ICPR buffed and that is good for me.

    Can i get better agility and might, i think i can and i am doing some looking at numbers but overall my build works for support/off healing.

    As to your statement regarding the 15% vocal, you are forgetting one very important thing. These plus Will all add up to a percentage, so the Legacy will give you a decent increase, without much of a sacrifice. Also many of the legacies you mentioned should be on a buffing emblem anyway. Focus has no point in being on your main emblem.
    Healing from RC is a big one since it adds to the Power Heal.

    Now like you said no one is saying here that Will is useless, we are just saying that unlike for RKS and Minis it does not have as much of an effect on Captains.
    And 15% from a legacy will give you a ton more then 200 extra will, always.
    and the difference between 15% just from the legacy and the 15% plus the mediocre increase from the extra Will will not make you much better healer. It will give you better heals but they will not be anything to write home about.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000015b084/01008/signature.png]Dropofhoney[/charsig]

  13. #38
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    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pillager101 View Post
    I agree that a high moral pool is not essential, i am running with 8.5k moral and i am happy.
    What constitutes a 'high' morale pool is sort of subjective. I rarely break 5k, so 8.5k seems very high to me.
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  14. #39
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    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    175 Will will only add you like 20 extra points to your heal. That isn't worth the four spots in your inventory swapping jewlery would create if you ask me.

    Will isn't a bad stat if you are after more power, but for increasing your heals it is indeed a waste IMHO. It's just a very weak stat that scales horribly into healing numbers for Captains. It's just not worth focusing on. There are better stats to get in it's place.
    I have like 150 inventory slots and I don't have to pay extra if I use the slots or if I don't so I figure I might as well use them. =) I mean all I do is instances like SH/SG where I net MAYBE 4-5 items per run or skirmishes where, again, maybe 5 items. Doing BG now and I am LUCKY if I get 1. I could run 4.5 bags full and not risk filling them. So I carry anything I might ever need with me. 2 rings, 2 earrings, 2 bracs, pocket item, cloak, radiance pieces, a shield, 3 kinds of resistance food, regular and crit versions of 2 types of buff/regular food, every type of potion, SM/3rd marks, bronze/gold barter items, all IXP runes under 10k, 3 banners, 2 herald thingies...I am sure I am missing something...and that takes up 3 bags. So I have 2 open at all times. I wish I had more things that would be useful...I mean I have 1.5 bags of free space! Now, maybe if you are renting out your free space to a kinmate or something, then I can see it...

    But seriously, if you are talking about quantitative impact of stats, will and vit are the only two stats where you can see any real difference by changing them. The tiny amount more damage/more crits or BPE you might get from might/agility or ICMR/ICPR/tact crit you get from fate are the things that are hard to measure. If I were a champ I would totally want to max M/A because that was my main role. Since they took away the really big DB crits, it seems like captain DPS is in the lower 3rd of all classes, which, honestly, is perfectly fine with me.

    And again, talking how the heals scale...captain heals scale at the same rate as minstrels and RKs with Will. If captain's heals are so small, why use them at all?

    Raowyn mentioned stopping what they were doing and spamming WoC when the tank gets low but not when someone else is at 3/4. I personally take sort of the opposite approach. I look for those people that aren't normally taking steady damage and are either A) important in the raid: the healers or B) low priority targets for Bolster Courage (such as DPS people that aren't tanking/offtanking) and watch their morale for when it goes down into the middle range where they almost could use a Bolster but where it might be an overheal (in the 1200-1500 range under max) and toss WoC on them. I like to do this on the healers because as my main is a minstrel, I hate targetting myself to heal so even small heals with HoTs to get me back near max is a load off my mind. I also like to do this to hunters because, honestly, they are the red-headed step children when it comes to healing priority. =) Obviously I will heal the tank when things go bad, but since a good chunk of the overall heal from WoC comes from HoT, if you spam it every time it comes up (3-4s?) you are losing about 30% of the heal's effectiveness. It is most effective being when it has time to allow all the HoTs to tick. Plus by the time the tank gets down that low, it's almost too late.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a000000003fef/signature.png]Jungo[/charsig]
    Herkamur - 65 Dwarf Guardian Roadblock, Gabby - 65 Man Captain Buffmaster,
    Gugwyn - 65 Man Champion, Fandarian - 62 Elf Hunter, Eoshan - 60 Man Burglar,
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  15. #40

    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by AceItcher View Post
    Raowyn mentioned stopping what they were doing and spamming WoC when the tank gets low but not when someone else is at 3/4. I personally take sort of the opposite approach. I look for those people that aren't normally taking steady damage and are either A) important in the raid: the healers or B) low priority targets for Bolster Courage (such as DPS people that aren't tanking/offtanking) and watch their morale for when it goes down into the middle range where they almost could use a Bolster but where it might be an overheal (in the 1200-1500 range under max) and toss WoC on them. I like to do this on the healers because as my main is a minstrel, I hate targetting myself to heal so even small heals with HoTs to get me back near max is a load off my mind. I also like to do this to hunters because, honestly, they are the red-headed step children when it comes to healing priority. =) Obviously I will heal the tank when things go bad, but since a good chunk of the overall heal from WoC comes from HoT, if you spam it every time it comes up (3-4s?) you are losing about 30% of the heal's effectiveness. It is most effective being when it has time to allow all the HoTs to tick. Plus by the time the tank gets down that low, it's almost too late.
    This is my philosophy too, I always keep an eye on the minstrel and the squishies to keep them healed, and let the min handle the main tank (whom I make sure to use my 20% Strength of Will on). I'll also occasionally use Inspire on the mt to help alittle, as well as WoC if things are looking rough.

  16. #41
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    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pillager101 View Post
    As to your statement regarding the 15% vocal, you are forgetting one very important thing. These plus Will all add up to a percentage, so the Legacy will give you a decent increase, without much of a sacrifice. Also many of the legacies you mentioned should be on a buffing emblem anyway. Focus has no point in being on your main emblem. Healing from RC is a big one since it adds to the Power Heal.

    Now like you said no one is saying here that Will is useless, we are just saying that unlike for RKS and Minis it does not have as much of an effect on Captains.
    And 15% from a legacy will give you a ton more then 200 extra will, always.
    and the difference between 15% just from the legacy and the 15% plus the mediocre increase from the extra Will will not make you much better healer. It will give you better heals but they will not be anything to write home about.
    Yes, I was doing that jerky forum thing where someone takes the extreme side of the arguement to prove their point. I just think it's funny that one can say that a few % from Will is not worth the effort but then spend countless hours getting IXP and scrolls of empowerment to level up emblems and get the legacies to T6...just so they can get a few extra % healing. Why bother when you have enough points to get even T3/4 healing legacies up to 11-13%? It takes me 10 seconds to switch 6 pieces of gear to get the same couple of percent. Where is the line that up to this point X% increase is worth it but after that, nope not worth it any more. If captain healing is seen as no more than throw away, why not just make emblems with all the non-healing stuff? There are plenty of legacies that would offer lots of benefit and could easily eat up all your legacy points (especially to those without macro keyboards who would be hard pressed to switch different emblems everytime for all those different CD legacies.)

    Perhaps I am being too mathematical and literal here but Will has EXACTLY the same impact on captains as Min/RK. It makes them just as much better. The way you know it is the same is because it is measured in percent. Maxed out Will increases outgoing healing by like 21% or something. If you looked at a guard with 650 will, outgoing healing would say 21%. IMO, if you argue that 'there just isn't enough impact' to it then you need to SHOW how having those stats in other areas has more impact. Not just say it is obvious simply because some particular heal only went up by 20 pts. When I do big might builds I can't SEE any difference. Maybe if I were to parse under controlled circumstances or whatever I could see, oh yeah, there is that 1.3% extra damage but IMO you wouldn't really ever really notice it, except maybe on a dev crit of DB, wow it was 50 pts more. With my Will build, not going crazy, just straight swapping 4-6 pieces of equipment, my might/agility/vit (when buffed) are still all in the 400/450 range, after which is when you start seeing the more dramatic DR and my morale is over 7000. To me it's worth it. But like I said, I heal more than most.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a000000003fef/signature.png]Jungo[/charsig]
    Herkamur - 65 Dwarf Guardian Roadblock, Gabby - 65 Man Captain Buffmaster,
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  17. #42
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    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    I agree, help the main healer with WoC but most of the times you already are with RC.

    As for Inspire I am still at the point of bouncing it between DPS and Tank.
    Give Sheild Brother to Tank, hit SoW, Inspire and switch SB to DPS.
    Give DPS To Arms and Inspire and when SoW CD is up switch back to tank.

    A bit of work but it does help the overall Fellow since the tank is getting and extra +20% healing and DPS is getting an increase of damage and ICPR.
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  18. #43
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    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    I have been considering that approach to healing the 3/4 health people, particularly during the twins boss fight in BG and vs the blind one. Yeah if the minnie cant keep the tank up with that 20% SoW then you need to find yourself a new minnie.

    I was looking at the percentage changes between outgoing healing and melee offense according to stats and they are the same, so I think I'll also be carrying around my will jewellery during raids, I just have to find a way to keep agility up too.
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  19. #44
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    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Raowyn View Post
    Yeah I Definately hit WoC when the tank gets low. Stop everything im doing and spam it. However, im not going to use it to top off someone at 3/4 health.
    As a side note, in agreement with the others who note this too, it's important for captains to understand that our healing type is HoT.

    Big, solid heals = reactive healing (you can afford to wait for someone to get to half health)

    Small heal-over-time heals = preemtive healing (you cannot afford to wait for someone to get too low, especially in particularly heated/unpredictable situations--this wastes the HoT component of our skills and is wasteful in terms of power-to-heal ratio)

    Assuming you're the main healer, this means that, most efficiently, you should be healing people well before they ever reach the halfway point. There are certainly situations where spamming WoC becomes warranted for whatever reason, but if the reason is because you just waited, then that's too late. Preemptive healing does require you to pay more attention to everything going on around you, of course. And there's more juggling if there's someone else healing.
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  20. #45
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    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    sounds like we need someone knowledgable to do an update the the HoH guide
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  21. #46
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    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    175 Will will only add you like 20 extra points to your heal. That isn't worth the four spots in your inventory swapping jewlery would create if you ask me.

    Will isn't a bad stat if you are after more power, but for increasing your heals it is indeed a waste IMHO. It's just a very weak stat that scales horribly into healing numbers for Captains. It's just not worth focusing on. There are better stats to get in it's place.
    Well, it's not like I have just one set of gear. For most content, when I'm the buffer/off-tank/off-healer/off-DPS, I do not stack will. But when I'm playing the main healer, you had better believe that I'm going to swap out my jewelery, slip that Glass Flask into my pocket, and stack the will up to 600 or so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    650 Will, assuming you cap it will maximaize your heals by 65 points, or something very close to that. If 65 extra morale on your heals is worth it to you, then by all means have at it. To me though, such a puny increase to my heals just isn't worth the sacrifice, and I'd rather have another stat in its place that gives more benefit.

    Now if you stack will for the extra power, rather than to maximize your heals - that I can understand a little more from a personal standpoint. But to each their own. If it's worth it to you, then that's what matters - just as long as you understand how bad it actually scales with the captain's healing.

    I also disagree captains need a balanced build to be effective. I also disagree we can't CC, as Heralds can do that nicely.
    Spamming WoC, an extra 65 moral is an extra 1300 moral per minute, not counting crits or Rallying cry. 1560 moral per minute with a maxed out Strength of Will buff. Again, I'll stack my will when I'm the main healer.

    I have to disagree about the pet. A herald is not good crowd control when they can only hold one mob against mild healing aggro.
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  22. #47
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    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeremi View Post
    I also disagree we can't CC, as Heralds can do that nicely.
    IMHO you have a very odd definition of "nicely".

    As for the pre-emptive vs reactive healing discussion, if I'm not the main healer, then I rarely even touch the Words of Courage button (except in an emergency). It's what I love about playing my Captain - a lot of healing just naturally happens without my having to actually take the time to heal people. Motivating speech, Morale banner, and IDOME before the fight begins, Shield-brother and SoW on the tank, Rally Cry every time it's available, Valiant Strike when it's up, and cycle in Inspire once in awhile. It all adds up to a lot of extra morale and healing for the group without having to watch health bars all day. Of course if I'm main healing then it's a totally different situation.

  23. #48
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    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by SGWB View Post
    Well, it's not like I have just one set of gear. For most content, when I'm the buffer/off-tank/off-healer/off-DPS, I do not stack will. But when I'm playing the main healer, you had better believe that I'm going to swap out my jewelery, slip that Glass Flask into my pocket, and stack the will up to 600 or so.



    Spamming WoC, an extra 65 moral is an extra 1300 moral per minute, not counting crits or Rallying cry. 1560 moral per minute with a maxed out Strength of Will buff. Again, I'll stack my will when I'm the main healer.

    I have to disagree about the pet. A herald is not good crowd control when they can only hold one mob against mild healing aggro.
    In the end i do not see it as making a big difference. It basically boils down to the MIN/MAXers.

    People who want every extra bit of number in as high as possible or low if you are talking about things like attack speed and such.

    If you as a captain are taken in as a primary healer then your job does not change you are still the support class, the buffer and off tanker. You heal though your attacks and your buffs. You are taken is usually as the group feels that they do not need the big heals of an RK or Mini and they can use the spot for extra DPS or CC. Either way that translates to things dying faster and people taking less damamger hence a Cap can easily main heal.

    Now i can also tell you that you going in with 600 will and me coming in with 300 Will will make very little difference on our abilities to heal the group and i do not feel like i need to be careful since my more is lower or my mitigations dropped.

    In the end it is all about play style and both are effective as proven here. I prefer not to stack Will but am aware of it. Other want to stack Will.
    The main argument for it is that many who stack will have what is in my opinion the wrong reason for it. It seems like they believe it will make them a supper healer which it will not.

    Also please do not give all of this 65 per heal equates to 1K+ healing over a minute. That means nothing really to this since you need to provide a side number of how much that same amount of Will boosted a mini BC and take that over a min and you will see that 1K+ healing is meaingless it is not worth mentioning. Also you need to add how much a person takes damamge per minute.
    Someone can take a ton more then 1K+ per miniute and again your WoC spam 1K+/min looks again as pitiful as an extra 65 moral to one cast.
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  24. #49
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    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by brasswire12 View Post
    IMHO you have a very odd definition of "nicely".

    As for the pre-emptive vs reactive healing discussion, if I'm not the main healer, then I rarely even touch the Words of Courage button (except in an emergency). It's what I love about playing my Captain - a lot of healing just naturally happens without my having to actually take the time to heal people. Motivating speech, Morale banner, and IDOME before the fight begins, Shield-brother and SoW on the tank, Rally Cry every time it's available, Valiant Strike when it's up, and cycle in Inspire once in awhile. It all adds up to a lot of extra morale and healing for the group without having to watch health bars all day. Of course if I'm main healing then it's a totally different situation.
    Well I don't approve of the way you play your captain at all if you rarely use words of courage, which is not only our most reliable direct heal, but adds a nice healing over time effect as well. Even if you aren't main healing, I feel you should definitely be using this one, at least on the main tank - nor does it force you to watch their hp bar all day like you oddly claim. But hey, play your captain like you want.

    And again, against a single boss you will only have a 15% chance to activate rally cry. that just isn't going to cut it. I was never aruging pre-emptive vs reactive healing or w/e. What I was arguing is your implication rally cry is our best heal and out-weighs words of courage. I just don't agree, and any captain who relies only on rally cry to do his/her healing is going to have a lot of dead tanks to raise.

    It's got nothing to do with pre-emptive or reactive.

    And Heralds do CC nicely.
    Last edited by Jeremi; Apr 11 2010 at 01:30 PM.

  25. #50
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    Re: "Will" - Will it matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by SGWB View Post
    Well, it's not like I have just one set of gear. For most content, when I'm the buffer/off-tank/off-healer/off-DPS, I do not stack will. But when I'm playing the main healer, you had better believe that I'm going to swap out my jewelery, slip that Glass Flask into my pocket, and stack the will up to 600 or so.



    Spamming WoC, an extra 65 moral is an extra 1300 moral per minute, not counting crits or Rallying cry. 1560 moral per minute with a maxed out Strength of Will buff. Again, I'll stack my will when I'm the main healer.

    I have to disagree about the pet. A herald is not good crowd control when they can only hold one mob against mild healing aggro.
    I use my herald to CC mobs all the time and works quite well. Disagree if you want, but I stand by what I said. And if the extra 65 morale on your words of courage is worth it for you to stack will then by all means go for it, like i said. I don't consider such a meager increase worth it, but i'm a big enough man to accept not everyone will agree with me.

    I like Will for the added power it brings, but would never make it a primary focus or stack it for an insignificant increase to my heals. But like I said, that's just me.
    Last edited by Jeremi; Apr 11 2010 at 01:34 PM.

 

 
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