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  1. #151
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    280

    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aestis25 View Post
    If you're doing 255 DPS on your RK, then you need to seriously re-examine your skill rotation.

    On the other hand, 303 DPS is solid for an Endurance stanced Hunter. You're still getting out-DPS'd significantly by many Guards & Champs, but compared to other Endurance Hunters 303 isn't bad.
    Yeah, it was the first time I've played it in a few weeks, was a little rusty, but was mainly keeping my T3 fire writ on him at all time, essence of flame, DOT threat down, ceaseless argument when they were on CD, and my cold writ when I could for the debuff. Also used my channeled burn skill whenever it was up.

    Mainly though, I was just having power issues toward the end.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0120300000008686e/01006/signature.png]Dreweth[/charsig]

  2. #152
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    1,793

    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    I tried out running in precision stance, switching to strength for the last 50k. This is with a 59 3rd age bow.


    [color=skyblue][b] High Warden, Tarhad, The Veteran [I](Blackarrow-foe, Reaver-foe, Stalker-foe, War-Leader's foe, Weaver-foe)[/I][/b][/color]
    [I][SIZE="1"]Please refrain from taking anything that Tarhad says seriously. If you don't take him seriously you will have a much more enjoyable time. Thanks in advance.[/I] - Bambam21[/SIZE]

  3. #153

    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    I ran in endurance to open, and switched to strength at 550K. I grabbed aggro a couple times. That hurt the DPS some, because I had to switch back to endurance and do melee auto-attacks until I lost aggro; then run for distance.

    With a level 60 3rd age bow I got 290 DPS. I got my first age bow that run, though.
    Last edited by Jeger_Wulf; Jul 03 2009 at 01:33 AM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d0000001745d1/01003/signature.png]Imyr[/charsig]

  4. #154
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    334

    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Here's my best parse so far. The fight probably took close to 5 mins, started Oathbreakers about 10secs into fight and cooldown is not up yet when Turtle is dead. (guesstimate dps is around 350)

    I started in endurance then precision and switch to strength from 280k onwards. Got a bite wound once, Weapon is lvl 60 FA bow. (running in 3 BM, 4 Hunts)



    ----------------------

    I have an older parse (SA 59 xbow) with me in Str stance from the start (BN, endurance some, then Str again) that does 90k damage with me getting plenty of aggro - induction setbacks. (pug group wiped at the end lol)

    The immediate try after that, i took it easy and went endurance, precision and only Strength at last 150k part and did 98k damage (never got aggro)


    --> both fights are 5mins+, wished i figured i must open cstats first to get the fight duration


    imho, unless you go resolute aim/needful haste/strength and assuming you got enough healing/power, going strength all the way may not give you higher dps afterall. (due to induction, power, dead)

    ----------------------

    Right now, hunters definitely lose out to Fire RKs on single target bosses. My RK outdps my Hunter for the Turtle quite easily with the same amount of keyboard smashing.

    My suggestion is to add more slower bows that have slightly higher damage figures. (i remember there were bows of different speeds in the lorebook?)

    Currently, bow lovers are forced to use lvl 59/60 TA or SA bows that barely tickles. It is only when you get a SA 59 xbow or FA bows/59 xbow that you can do respectable to good dps. (at least from my pov, will like to see more parses to prove me wrong)

    ----------------------

    I'm being long winded here.. =P

    Changes to class role? I don't think i'm going to bother, we have been mashing the same buttons for 2 years... only "creative changes" they made is for us to play a fake LM (mobs being immune more doesn't help) and Fleet stance!


    EDIT : Where is the Auroch armour set V2.0? Perhaps there can be a new armour set that is low in bonus stats but give several reduced cool down on skills. This give players who want to be a true glass cannon another option.

    EDIT II : With the radiance gating ****, we need 2 sets, one with radiance and one without and i bet that's going to take them a year.
    Last edited by Leothalion; Jul 03 2009 at 03:59 AM.
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  5. #155

    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Leo, show your RK's parse too

    Anyway, good to see more data coming in. However, it would be nice if each data accompanied with group buffs, depends on the raid make up. While some may think this is too tedious for simple parsing, but informative nonetheless for whoever interested in details and the bigger picture.

    Superb list of debuffs and buffs by Evendale from the Burglar forums.
    One of Captain's Shield Brother skills, To Arms, is not in the list, but that should be taken into account, that is the Hunter is lucky enough there's no RK in the raid or her/his group :\
    Quote Originally Posted by Evendale View Post
    List of all Debuffs (not including slows or bleeds)

    Notes:
    Information as of Vol II: Book VIII.

    (V,H)
    V = Vertical Stacking:
    · S = Same debuff is Stackable with other players.
    · N = Same debuff is Not Stackable with other players.
    · P = Same debuff is Partly Stackable with other players.
    H = Horizontal Stacking:
    · S = The debuff is Stackable with all other debuffs from the same player.
    · # = The debuff is Not Stackable with other debuffs (that have the same number!) from the same player.
    · T = Toggle Skill (ie: can only be active on 1 target per player at once - cooldown starts after toggle removed from target).

    [Xs,Ys] = Skill duration & cooldown

    + = The value can be increased (or increased further) with legacies by an unknown amount.
    ? = The value is uncertain


    Reduced Damage
    Single Target:
    · [Burglar] Disable (S,1) = -20% melee dmg & +20% atk spd = ~35% less melee dmg overall. [1m,5s]
    .... untraited = -15% melee dmg & +15% atk spd. [without line bonuses 30s,5s]
    · [LM] SoP: Command (N,1) = +20% atk spd & -557 p -480 b/e rating. [1m19s,1.8s]
    .... untraited = doesn't reduce b/e [without legendary trait & legacies 30s,1.8s]
    · [LM] SoP: See All Ends (N,1) = -1920 crit rating. [1m4s,1m]
    .... without legendary trait = -720 crit rating. [without legendary trait & legacies 15s,1m]
    · [Burglar] Addle (N,S) = +25% ind spd. [30s,30s]
    .... N/A
    · [Guardian] Stagger (N,N/A) = -15%+ atk spd. [15s+,5s] (must be applied from behind or on critical)
    .... without legacies = -15% atk spd. [15s,5s]
    · [Hunter/Warden] Light Oils (N,N/A) = +10% miss chance. [8s,N/A] (applied on critical hit of most skills)
    .... N/A (note can be AOE chance to proc. if using an AOE skill)
    AOE:
    · [LM] Fire Lore (N,S) = -30% melee dmg & +7% miss chance. 13 targets. [1m,1m]
    .... untraited & without +5 targets legacy = +2% miss chance. 3 targets. [without legendary trait 30s,1m]
    · [Burglar] DitE (S,1) = +20% miss chance. 3 targets. [1m,5s]
    .... untraited = 1 target. [without line bonuses 30s,5s]
    · [RK] Writ of Cold (N,S) = +24% ind spd & +15% atk spd. 3 targets. [20s,5s]
    .... applied iteratively (3 tiers). lowest tier = +8% ind spd & +5% atk spd
    · [LM] Gust of Wind (N,S) = +10% miss chance. 5 targets. [2m,10s]
    .... untraited = +7% miss chance.
    · [Minstrel] Anthem of the Wizards (N,S) = +20% atk duration. 3 targets. [45s,3m]
    .... requires legendary trait. [without trait 30s,10m]

    Reduced Ranged Damage
    Single Target:
    · [Burglar] Enrage (N/A,1) = most mobs are unable to use any ranged attacks & +5% ranged dmg. [30s,5s]
    .... requires trait to prevent ranged attacks.
    · [LM pet] Raven Distraction (N,T) = -50% ranged dmg & +10% miss chance. [channels pets power,15s]
    .... N/A
    AOE:
    · [LM] Wind Lore (N,S) = -60% ranged dmg & +10% atk spd. 8 targets. [30s,30s]
    .... untraited = -50% ranged dmg +10% atk duration. 3 targets.

    Increased Incoming Damage
    Single Target:
    · [Captain] Telling Mark (N,T&1) = +10% dmg. [∞,0s]
    .... without legacies = +5% dmg. [without line bonus ∞,10s]
    · [Burglar] Reveal Weakness (S,T) = +10% dmg. [∞,5s]
    .... untraited = +8% dmg.
    · [Burglar] Counter Defense (P,1) = +6% melee crit chance & -2640 b/p/e rating = ~5-20% dmg overall? [1m,5s]
    .... untraited = +3% melee crit chance & -~1200 b/p/e rating. [without line bonuses 30s,5s]
    · [Burglar] Quite a Snag (N,S) = +3% dmg & +10% atk spd. [30s,23s]
    .... without legendary trait = +2% dmg & +5% atk spd. [without legendary trait and legacies 30s,5m]
    · [Minstrel] Echoes of Battle (N,T) = -1200+ song/cry resist rating. [∞(channels power),5s]
    .... non war-speech = -720 song/cry resist rating.
    · [Warden] Shield-Piercer (N,S) = -2640 block rating [31s,30s]
    .... [without trait and legacies 20s,45s]
    · [Captain] Oathbreakers (N,S) = +35% dmg. [10s,5m]
    .... requires legendary trait.
    · [LM pet] Bear Dmg Debuff (N,S) = +10% melee/ranged dmg. [30s,1m]
    .... N/A
    · [LM pet] Raven Fire Debuff (N,S) = -1080 fire mitigation. [1m,5s]
    .... N/A
    · [LM pet] Bog-Lurker Debuff (N,S) = +5% ranged crit chance. [1m,1m]
    .... requires legendary trait for pet.
    AOE:
    · [LM] Ancient Craft (N,S) = -1620 armour value. 10 targets. [60s,60s]
    .... without +5 targets legacy = 5 targets. [without legendary trait 30s,60s]
    · [Champion] Armour Rend (N,S) = -~? armour value. ? targets. [30s,3s?]
    .... without legacies = -~400? armour value.
    · [Minstrel] Call of Orome (N,S) = -990 light mitigation. 3 targets. [10s,10s]
    .... requires war-speech.
    · [LM] Sticky Tar (N,S) = -10% fire mitigation. ∞ targets. [1m,1m30s]
    .... N/A
    · [RK] Flurry of Words (N,S) = -2640 evade rating. ∞ targets. [15s,1m]
    .... N/A

    Other
    Single Target:
    · [Captain] Revealing Mark (N,T&1) = returns 15% of damage as healing to attacker. [∞,0s]
    .... [without line bonus ∞,10s]
    · [Burglar] Debuffing Gambles (Y,S*) = +20% miss chance, +40% atk spd, & -30% dmg. [15s,1m30s]
    .... requires line bonus. applied randomly (6 tiers). lowest tier = +15% atk spd. [without trait 15s,2m] *not stackable with other types of gambles (that aren't considered debuffs)
    AOE:
    · [LM] Warding Knowledge: Dead and Men (N,2) = +2% miss chance & +10% tactical dmg. ∞ targets. [1m,1m shared] (only applies to dead and men)
    .... untraited = (only applies to dead)
    · [LM] Warding Knowledge: Creatures of Nature and Beasts (N,2) = +2% miss chance & +10% tactical dmg. ∞ targets. [1m,1m shared] (only applies to creatures of nature and beasts)
    .... untraited = (only applies to creatures of nature)
    · [LM] Warding Knowledge: Drakes and Orc-Kind (N,2) = +2% miss chance & +10% tactical dmg. ∞ targets. [1m,1m shared] (only applies to drakes and orc-kind)
    .... untraited = (only applies to drakes)
    · [RK] Essence of Winter (N,S) = -30% healing, +100% power cost. 3 targets. [30s,20s]
    .... [if Writ of Cold not tiered up 20s,20s]
    · [RK] Frozen Epilogue (N,*) = applies both writ of cold & essence of winter. 5 targets. [20s/30s,5m]
    .... *not stackable with writ of cold or essence of winter

    --------------


    Some Group Buffs with Similar Effects
    · [Minstrel] Ballad of War (N,S) = +20% melee dmg. [20s+?,5s?]
    .... without legacy = +10% melee dmg. [without trait 20s?,5s?]


    --------------

    Please post if you know anything I haven't listed, have got wrong, or haven't updated.
    [SIZE=1][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode]Elendilmir: [COLOR=#aa6633]Quithalion the Elven Hunter[/COLOR] [COLOR=white]|[/COLOR] [COLOR=#bbbbbb]Quithelion the Manly Captain[/COLOR] [COLOR=white]|[/COLOR] [COLOR=#3399ff]Karnnalin the Dorf Guardian (Semi-retired)[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]

  6. #156
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Dearborn Michigan / Bloomfield Michigan
    Posts
    242

    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    One thing i think you should look at, or take completely out of the equation, is the weapon of the people you are comparing.

    I know as a fact that now my rune-keeper out dpses my hunter in the turtle. But until i got my 2nd age runestone with all the legacies i wanted all tier 5/6 i don't think i came close to my hunter who's legendary isn't close to perfect.


    Give a rune-keeper, a hunter, and a guardian a generic crafted weapon(not a legendary weapon) and see how their dps compares.
    (i'm assuming you have great jewelry and 6/6 radiance)
    I'd bet on hunter>rk>guardian


    In my opinion, rune-keepers legendary items far exceed the effectiveness of other classes. They can get +10% damage to all lightning skills, +10% all fire skills over time damage, +22% lightning critical multipliars, and -10% battle attuned power costs.

    It's been a while since i logged into my rk since i'm leveling my burg, but i think my rk has a stone with all that, except maybe i left the critical multiplier at 18 or 20%.

    My hunter has the best legendary i could find. 2nd Age bow, maxed dps, but then i only have enough points left to max out induction crit multiplier, max -induction power cost, and get focus crit and focus power cost to tier 4 or 5. All the legacies are tier 6.

    The point is tactical classes have a major dps advantage because they don't need to level up the dps component of a legendary.



    Too bad i just text-walled.
    If you read all that good job, even though i ended up just rambling...
    [CENTER][COLOR=darkorange][charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0320200000006ee8d/signature.png]Aejethirn[/charsig][/COLOR][/CENTER]
    [CENTER][COLOR=darkorange]Brandywine:[/COLOR] [COLOR=deepskyblue]Aejethirn (r7 Hunter), Elzzar (r6 Rune-keeper), Festan (r6 Burglar), Feladr[/COLOR][/CENTER]
    [CENTER][COLOR=deepskyblue](r5 Loremaster), Chedd (r4 Guardian), Peribald (r0 Warden (not pvp-ing with this guy)).[/COLOR] [/CENTER]
    [CENTER][COLOR=darkorange]Elendilmir:[/COLOR][COLOR=deepskyblue]Aurthur (r4 Champion), Uvario (r0 Burglar) [/COLOR][/CENTER]

  7. #157
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    231

    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by FyreBrand View Post
    I remember that thread now. I think it works as a zero threat generator. So if you hit Beneath Notice and pop into S:E and spam QS you are letting the tank, and everyone else, to build up hate over you. I've used it before with radiance instance bosses. Not telling you anything you don't already know, just saying that has been my experience as well.

    It doesn't take much time to stance dance, but it does take enough time that it lowers the DPS and interrupts the flow of the shot rotation. Switch enough times and you're seriously gimping your damage output. There is also no need to call people lazy. Keep the personal attacks and posturing out of the discussion please. It discredits anything you have to contribute.

    Switching stances, popping Beneath Notice, lowering your damage output and spamming QS in S:E does gimp your DPS. Sitting is S:E and spamming QS contributes no more than what support classes can contribute and much less than DPS classes like the RK can contribute. A Nature's Fury lore-master can out DPS a S:E QS hunter.
    Wasen't meant as a personal attack just as a general statment. Lets face it there are a ton of hunters out there that play half comatose and are surprised why they cant out dps a guard or a lm.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d0000000b4e77/signature.png]Wayolen[/charsig]

  8. #158
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    231

    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Anotherthing to add, hunters are alot more item depended then a runekeeper. i guess you can say they come into their own in the end game. The leap between third, second and first ages are huge for a hunter. Its not so huge for tatical classes. I personal know of several minstrels that have deconed first ages in favor of third ages because the legacies were better. Legs matter but not as much as the raw dps. So comparing the dps of a hunter in poor gear to an rk in poor gear isn't a valid comparason.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d0000000b4e77/signature.png]Wayolen[/charsig]

  9. #159

    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    > So comparing the dps of a hunter in poor gear to an rk in
    > poor gear isn't a valid comparason.

    It is as valid as any other. Turbine is going to have to decide how to handle both ends.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d0000001745d1/01003/signature.png]Imyr[/charsig]

  10. #160
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    231

    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeger_Wulf View Post
    > So comparing the dps of a hunter in poor gear to an rk in
    > poor gear isn't a valid comparason.

    It is as valid as any other. Turbine is going to have to decide how to handle both ends.
    classes that do physical dmg, ranged or mele are more gear dependent. This holds true through across most mmo's. You can't just compare two level 60's you have factor in how complete each toon is compared to their maxium potential. The road to teir one dps is harder for a hunter.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d0000000b4e77/signature.png]Wayolen[/charsig]

  11. #161
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    4,451

    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Well I think most of us can agree Turbine went too far and needs to bring us back a little. Nothing huge just we need to be more in line with the kind of dps an equally geared and traited RK can. Either we need to do more dps or we need to generate less threat. One or the other I honestly do not care which.

    I mean look at all the threads from hunters. I have only seen 2 or 3 people on here who actually play hunters that think we were pushed too far and need to be pulled back a little. Nothing huge we just need slight tweaking then let us test it out for a while see how it goes. Might need a little more tweaking who knows. Fact us something needs to be done to make our class needed a little more in groups. Honestly I think we should do more DPS than a RK in str stance and squal in endurance or precision. I mean RK has heals, res and dps. We have nothing but DPS. If Rk and hunters are equal that means everyone will play runekeepers. I mean why not tis a small trade-off I mean Id trade medium armor for a res and healing abilities almost as good as a mini plus DPS of a hunter.

    So in my opinion hunters in str stance everything else being equal should out DPS a runekeeper. Otherwise it is pointless to play a hunter. You bring the same thing to the table except the runekeeper brings beer and pizza too.
    Last edited by Gareth420; Jul 03 2009 at 09:04 PM.

  12. #162

    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    > The road to teir one dps is harder for a hunter.

    Yes. As I said, Turbine has to decide how to handle both ends.

    Comparing the dps of a hunter in poor gear to an rk in poor gear is valid. So is comparing the dps of a hunter in good gear to an rk in good gear. Some people play the game in poor gear, and others play the game in good gear. Both groups of people deserve a fun game that is somewhat equitable.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d0000001745d1/01003/signature.png]Imyr[/charsig]

  13. #163
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    231

    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeger_Wulf View Post
    > The road to teir one dps is harder for a hunter.

    Yes. As I said, Turbine has to decide how to handle both ends.

    Comparing the dps of a hunter in poor gear to an rk in poor gear is valid. So is comparing the dps of a hunter in good gear to an rk in good gear. Some people play the game in poor gear, and others play the game in good gear. Both groups of people deserve a fun game that is somewhat equitable.
    Generally speaking the people who worry about their dps enough to have a dps parser or complain that they get their lunch eatin in a raid by other classes are going to have( or be working toward) the high end gear. The hunter got hit hard book 7 but they can still be on top of the dps game. There are improvements that are needed for sure. But I think the porblems with hunters are a bit overstated.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d0000000b4e77/signature.png]Wayolen[/charsig]

  14. #164

    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Couldn't get my Hunter for turtle raid, used my Guardian instead.

    1x Captain's Telling Mark +5% damage
    1x Burglar's Reveal Weakness +8% (or +10%) damage

    Lv60 SA 2H Axe (Uruk Slayer)
    Lv59 TA 2H Axe (Uruk Slayer)
    Lv60 SA 1H Axe (Beleriand)
    Overpower stance +26% damage with Hemorrhage.

    1st half of fight, using the SA 2H Axe. Switched to SA 1H Axe and Shield when the MT died. Have second aggro after MT and temporarily tank.
    Accidentally switched to TA 2H Axe when the MT rezzed and resume tanking.

    Total 3 Oathbreakers used.

    And the result of Guardian's Overpower parse:


    I think I can hear the Hunter devs screaming to the Guardian devs for Guardian nerfing love hehe
    /sarcastic off
    [SIZE=1][FONT=Lucida Sans Unicode]Elendilmir: [COLOR=#aa6633]Quithalion the Elven Hunter[/COLOR] [COLOR=white]|[/COLOR] [COLOR=#bbbbbb]Quithelion the Manly Captain[/COLOR] [COLOR=white]|[/COLOR] [COLOR=#3399ff]Karnnalin the Dorf Guardian (Semi-retired)[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE]

  15. #165
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    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quithalion View Post
    1st half of fight, using the SA 2H Axe. Switched to SA 1H Axe and Shield when the MT died. Have second aggro after MT and temporarily tank.
    Accidentally switched to TA 2H Axe when the MT rezzed and resume tanking.

    Edit: I'm dumb.
    Last edited by Aestis25; Jul 06 2009 at 06:52 AM.
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  16. #166
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Chicago
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    1,287

    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    I figured I would go ahead and toss a few numbers in here as well.

    Below is my Parse, and a Screenshot of the Bow I'm currently stuck with.



    Raid Time: 3 Minutes and 29 Seconds.
    DPS: 91,280 / 209 = 436.74 DPS.

    *Note that I did have To Arms on me.*

    I was in Strength Stance for the entire encounter, did not have aggro once thanks to timely challenges via Champs and Guardian.

    I also ran 3 Bow Master, and 4 Huntsmen, and had a Lore-Master feeding me power.

    Raid Make-up
    2 Minstrels
    2 Captains
    2 Champions
    1 Burglar
    2 Hunters
    1 Rune Keeper
    1 Lore Master
    1 Guardian
    Eomin 75 Hunter
    Leader of Preying Mantis
    [Jeweled Bell] goes *Jingle Jangle*

  17. #167

    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aestis25 View Post
    No offense, but this parse is borderline useless with all that switching. I'd be shocked if my DPS while tanking is over 100. That translates to ~30k damage in a 5 minute fight. Using a parse of a Guard who spent half the fight tanking is like benchmarking RK dps in a fight where they spent half the fight healing. The difference is that big.
    I wouldn't say that its borderline useless. It is definitely useful from a comparative standpoint because it establishes that, even with a very sub-optimal skill/stance sequence (for DPS purposes) this Guardian was still able to put out an average DPS of 287. Not only was he 'competent' from a damage output perspective, he also added a value that a Hunter wouldn't normally be able to bring to a group - he was able to switch to MT mid-fight.
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  18. #168
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    In the van... with candy.
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    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by WhifOfDespair View Post
    I wouldn't say that its borderline useless. It is definitely useful from a comparative standpoint because it establishes that, even with a very sub-optimal skill/stance sequence (for DPS purposes) this Guardian was still able to put out an average DPS of 287. Not only was he 'competent' from a damage output perspective, he also added a value that a Hunter wouldn't normally be able to bring to a group - he was able to switch to MT mid-fight.
    And THAT is precisely what makes me want to **** in somebodies cereal.
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  19. #169

    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by oogabooga227 View Post
    Below is my Parse, and a Screenshot of the Bow I'm currently stuck with.

    Please don't take this personally but ... I hate you.

    "stuck with" ??????!!!!

    I have been SOOOOOOO UNLUCKY trying to chase down a decent bow that it's driving me crazy. Nothing good is EVER on sale on the AH on Nim. I've killed a zillion humanoid mobs and only found about 4-5 Second Age LIs - none of them for my class. I've ground out dozens of gold leafs - so far every time I've turned them in all I've gotten are big honkin' IXP Runes! I can't wait 'till I find a weapon worth spending those runes on.

    I did just finally land a decent Second Age for my melee weapon. But that doesn't really do much.

    Till then, I'm stuck using my 3rd Age pea shooter. Sigh ...
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  20. #170

    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Just run turtle alot. The fight is easy/quick and you can do it twice a week now. Thats not to trivialize it as easy getting a 1st Age Bow, but it is much much much much much much much more viable now w/ the barter system.
    Last edited by PhantomPunkk; Jul 06 2009 at 01:35 AM.
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  21. #171
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    334

    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by oogabooga227 View Post

    Raid Time: 3 Minutes and 29 Seconds.
    DPS: 91,280 / 209 = 436.74 DPS.
    I like that completion time and DPS.
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  22. #172
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX
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    876

    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by WhifOfDespair View Post
    I wouldn't say that its borderline useless. It is definitely useful from a comparative standpoint because it establishes that, even with a very sub-optimal skill/stance sequence (for DPS purposes) this Guardian was still able to put out an average DPS of 287. Not only was he 'competent' from a damage output perspective, he also added a value that a Hunter wouldn't normally be able to bring to a group - he was able to switch to MT mid-fight.

    I rescind everything I wrote. In one of my finer moments I looked at the DPS # for Nornuan of 138, and thought that he was presenting this, his tanking DPS #, as a comparable Guardian parse. Instead his DPS was 287 of course, despite tanking a portion of the fight. So these numbers fall much more in line with what's expected. My bad.
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  23. #173
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    876

    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by oogabooga227 View Post
    Raid Time: 3 Minutes and 29 Seconds.
    DPS: 91,280 / 209 = 436.74 DPS.

    *Note that I did have To Arms on me.*

    I was in Strength Stance for the entire encounter, did not have aggro once thanks to timely challenges via Champs and Guardian.

    I also ran 3 Bow Master, and 4 Huntsmen, and had a Lore-Master feeding me power.

    This falls in line with the expected range as well. Without To Arms, your DPS would probably fall in the ~395-400 range, give or take, which while still lower than an RK is more or less Tier 1 DPS.

    The only problem, of course, is this was only achievable in that rare fight when aggro was zero concern due to juggling snap taunts, and power was zero concern due to your LRM pet.


    Conclusion

    1. If having a Loremaster constantly supply power is not a concern, and aggro is not a concern, Hunters with a 1st Age Bow running in fully traited (+25% dmg) Strength stance are Tier 1 DPS'ers.

    2. ANY other time (ie, any Hunter in Endurance stance, or in some cases even a Hunter with a 3rd Age Bow in Strength), it is not ideal to bring a Hunter in the group over a Runekeeper, Champion, or Guardian.




    Not to be obnoxiously repetitive, but I want to drive these two main points home, since all the parses so far have supported these conclusions. Keep the numbers coming. Turbine doesn't listen to opinionated rants, but they do look at hard data.
    Last edited by Aestis25; Jul 06 2009 at 07:01 AM.
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  24. #174

    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    My bad too, I should have make clear that I tanked for about 30 sec (1H Axe, shield and Block stance) before the MT is rezzed and resume his tanking with snap aggro. I switched back to 2H Axe with Overpower stance, only with TA instead of SA.

    And oogabooga227,
    o.O
    I must find out how much my Hunter can do with Lv60 TA Bow for absolute low end numbers of the DPS tiers -_-"
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  25. #175
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    4,451

    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    I think one of the problems is Turbine devs assume ALL hunters have 8/6 1st age god-like bows etc. Not everyone has these. They need to look at middle of the road and not the fastest cars on the auto-bahn. With brodster banned maybe we can finally have some rational discussions here without all the stuff he brings. I never got why the developers look at someone like him who is maxxed out on everything with the perfect setup most will never see and base all our numbers on his.

 

 
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