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  1. #1
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    An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    First off, anyone who's read my posts on this board understands I'm about as far from a "ZOMG The Sky Is Falling!" type of forum poster as is imaginable. I also believe in numbers. And finally, I believe you have to look at the entire scenario before making a judgment; numbers alone are not enough without a real understanding of the context surrounding them.

    After a long time of looking at all the available data, I have come to a few conclusions:

    1) Hunters' soloability is more or less fine.
    2) Hunters are no longer a Tier 1 dps class in groups.
    3) Endurance stance has been rendered entirely useless.
    4) Unless you specifically need a ranged tank (ie, for tentacles in The Watcher), there is almost never a reason to bring a Hunter instead of a Runekeeper, Champion, or at times even a DPS Guardian.



    Now, I will address each of these points.

    Hunters' soloability is more or less fine.

    I will spend the least amount of time on this one, as things seem to be okay. While not all Hunters may share this point of view, the vast majority of players can complete any solo content other classes can with relative ease, regardless of gear.


    Hunters are no longer a Tier 1 dps class in groups.

    This depends on how you define "Tier 1," of course. But here are some comparisons for you.

    Recently I've been comparing turtle raid parses between my Guard, my Hunter, and a few kinmates/friends--two Hunters, two Runekeepers, and a Champ. All of us are well-geared and highly experienced players who understand DPS skill rotations.

    Here is an example of a recent parse on my Guardian. In that same raid:

    Guardian (2nd age 2H Great Hammer @ 193 max dmg): 95k
    Hunter (1st age Crossbow @ 141 max dmg, fully leveled dps & both crit multipliers leveled to +16-19%): 97k
    Runekeeper (leveled up +Wrath of Flame and +WoF dot legacies): 131k

    Since that accounts for ~323k of Nornuan already, this means that the other 4 dps classes (2 Hunters, 1 RK, 1 Champ) plus the Loremaster/Captain all combined for ~300k. The other two Hunters were more casual players who had 3rd age bows and average gear. Meaning, mathematically it's likely the Runekeeper nearly doubled their DPS, and the Guardian & Hunter w/ a 1st age bow far surpassed them.

    Now, a couple of things to note here on the way to interpreting these numbers. First, the group make-up is listed in the link. Second, it should be noted after talking to the Minstrels that they did not have Ballad of War up for much of the fight, so those melee numbers are not unreasonably skewed (in other words, with the right buffs they would be even higher). And third, none of these three players were being targeted by our Captain for individual buffs such as To Arms.

    (*additional footnote on DPS comparisons at the bottom)

    It should also be noted that the Hunter was running with 3 Bowmaster / 4 Huntsman setup and ran in Strength stance the entire fight (+15% dmg). So, if he was being fed power the entire time by a Loremaster, running 4 Bowmaster would have raised his dps output to ~105k (from the 8.7% increase from 115% to 125%).

    In other words, it would have taken a very experienced Hunter wielding a 1st age crossbow and taking up lots of LRM time/power running in fully traited Strength stance the entire fight to out-dps a Guardian with a 2nd age hammer by a mere 11%. Keep in mind that if a Guardian has a comparable 1st age 2-hander, or a Hunter has a 2nd/3rd age bow, these numbers will be even closer.

    Which leads me to point #3:


    Endurance stance has been rendered entirely useless.

    A fully geared/traited Guardian will out-dps a fully geared/traited Hunter in Endurance stance against a single target. Against multiple mobs, a Guardian will out-dps an Endurance stanced Hunter by a huge margin.

    Essentially, if your Hunter cannot run in full Strength the entire fight, sucking power from the Loremaster and pulling aggro over your tank, you are losing DPS versus other classes. Bringing another Champion or Guardian will increase your single-target DPS by a slight margin and increase your multi-target DPS by a huge margin. Bringing a Runekeeper will increase your single-target DPS by a huge margin without the aggro & power problems.


    Unless you specifically need a ranged tank (ie, for tentacles in The Watcher), there is almost never a reason to bring a Hunter instead of a Runekeeper or Champion.

    A Hunter in Endurance essentially adds less DPS in a group than the previous classes, and there's no reason to bring a Hunter unless you are getting superior single-target DPS. I'm leaving Precision out on purpose, since there is no +dmg component, but rather a To-Hit boost, particularly against higher level mobs. This is much harder to measure, and likely only affects DPS in a significant manner in specific situations when facing much higher level mobs.

    So essentially, unless you don't mind a LRM dedicating much of his time to feeding the Hunter power, and unless aggro is not a concern (ie, versus The Watcher), you should never bring a Hunter when given the choice.


    How did it get to this point?

    Some editorial freedom on my part here.

    First, Hunters looked a lot more overpowered on the surface than they really were, because of three primary reasons all working in conjunction:

    1) For soloing, the initial burst of DPS (aka Swift Bow) burned down mobs so quickly that solo content was trivialized somewhat, even if in groups this was a much harder argument to make.

    2) The high spike dmg on crits led to a misleading perception of 10k heartseekers being pumped out en masse.

    3) The group content in Moria tended toward fights where Hunters could run in Strength and unleash without having to worry about aggro: Watcher 1.0, Watcher 2.0, Turtle raid, The Lost One, et al. As a result, this led to Hunters pumping out some serious numbers in groups, far surpassing other classes' DPS, even though in any instance where aggro & power management matters, running in Endurance or Precision is the better choice. Turbine's response was to nerf Hunter DPS down to the point where in fully loaded Strength stance, Hunters hold a slight lead over Champs, Guards, etc. The only problem, as I will continue to mention, is that the moment a Hunter drops out of Strength stance, they become an inferior DPS class.

    Essentially, by adjusting Strength stance toward a more group-friendly role and scaling everything else downward with it, they effectively chained Hunters to it in terms of DPS.


    What needs to happen?

    Cries of "Raise Hunter DPS!" don't lend much insight to the problem. The answer isn't simply to raise Hunter DPS, although that's certainly part of it.

    I also don't want to turn this into a "Here's what they should do" thread. We all have ideas, they're a dime a dozen.

    What I do want to do is shed some light on the Why's and the How's, and hopefully Turbine will get a different look on the way things are. The point is not: "Hunters are useless." The point here is: "They don't add anything to a group that a Champ, Guard, or Runekeeper can't do better, while adding much more in other areas." In other words, when you want single-target DPS, Hunter is no longer your best choice, nor is it even your 2nd best choice, which is a problem since single-target DPS is the only real reason to bring a Hunter in the first place.

    The biggest problem is the imbalance & ambiguity in what our stances are really supposed to do, specifically Strength & Endurance.

    If Turbine wants Strength stance to be for burst DPS, great. Bump the damage back up a bit, bump the aggro back up a bit, even bump up the power cost if need be. Make it completely unrealistic for sustainable DPS in groups, except for quick bursts in specific spot use. Then adjust Endurance to bring its DPS back in line with our target DPS compared with other classes.

    If Turbine wants Strength stance to be sustainable/viable in groups, great. Lower the power cost & aggro component of Strength stance. Make it so a Hunter can actually run this stance in groups without wiping due to aggro mismanagement or running out of power 2 minutes into the fight.

    Either way, our group DPS needs to be brought back up to speed. I know Turbine is gearing RKs toward sustained single-target DPS and Hunters toward burst single-target DPS. Ok, fine. But Hunters still need to be a sustainable Tier 1 single-target DPS class, 95 cents on the RK dollar, or else they lose all utility in groups.


    Conclusion

    If having a Loremaster constantly supply power is not a concern, and aggro is not a concern, Hunters with a 1st Age Bow running in fully traited (+25% dmg) Strength stance are Tier 1 DPS'ers.

    ANY other time (ie, any Hunter in Endurance stance, or in some cases even a Hunter with a 3rd Age Bow in Strength), it is not ideal to bring a Hunter in the group over a Runekeeper, Champion, or Guardian.




    * Additional Footnote:

    It's important to use both in-group comparisons such as the example I listed, as well as compare DPS numbers from different groups, when looking at the numbers. I've compared parses of both my Hunter, my kinmate's Hunter, and another friend's hunter. All of us have 1st Age Bows.

    With 3 Bowmaster traits slotted, the DPS range in our parses have ranged from 340-385. With 4 Bowmaster traits, this # would be ~8.7% higher (~370-415), but requires an inordinate amount of power from Loremasters to be able to sustain. My Guardian's parses have ranged from 330-350 range. Keep in mind again, however, that a Hunter without a 1st age bow, close to 600 agility, and a fully ranked +crit legacies will not output near the same #'s as these 3 Hunters--as is evident by the fact that of the 3 Hunters on my last parse, my Guardian out-DPS'd the 2 with 2nd/3rd-age bows, and he does not have a 1st age weapon himself. My two Runekeeper kinmates have consistently been in the 430-455 range of DPS, without any power concerns.

    ** One last note

    The "Hunter vs RK" debate is a misguided one. I've seen arbitrary numbers thrown out from both sides, along the lines of "Hunters need to be X% of RK dps, or vice versa." This is a fallacy, since the DPS discrepancy among different Hunters is huge--much larger than for RKs. Between different stances (Endurance vs Strength), and the major DPS increase from 3rd to 2nd to 1st age bows, you just don't see that kind of variance with RKs. So a more constructive debate would be to talk about specific situations rather than an imaginary catch-all DPS comparison. For instance: A Hunter with a 1st Age bow in Endurance stance should be able to output X% of a RK's single-target damage. But a Hunter with a 1st Age bow in Strength should be at Y%. These are the choices Turbine needs to consider & make. An apples to apples comparison is, to be frank, impossible.
    Last edited by Aestis25; Jun 22 2009 at 06:31 PM.
    .
    AestisMithrilbornAestos
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  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Good post, I have always thought they should have upped agro and endurance of Strength, rather than lower dps.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/032020000001f06a9/01008/signature.png]Treeost[/charsig]

  3. #3

    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Great post - My last turtle run, a guardian went with me DPS for DPS, an RK exceeded me, but I drew aggro and disrupted the group some. (I have a third age bow.) This lead me to think exactly as you.

    You put it all together nicely.
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  4. #4
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    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aestis25 View Post
    Endurance stance has been rendered entirely useless.

    A fully geared/traited Guardian will out-dps a fully geared/traited Hunter in Endurance stance against a single target. Against multiple mobs, a Guardian will out-dps an Endurance stanced Hunter by a huge margin.

    Essentially, if your Hunter cannot run in full Strength the entire fight, sucking power from the Loremaster and pulling aggro over your tank, you are losing DPS versus other classes. Bringing another Champion or Guardian will increase your single-target DPS by a slight margin and increase your multi-target DPS by a huge margin. Bringing a Runekeeper will increase your single-target DPS by a huge margin without the aggro & power problems.
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    Our damage output is only even close to other classes' when we're in the only stance that can't be commonly used grouping. RKs, by comparison, get decreased aggro along with their damage increases. A champion gets more power efficiency when in high damage mode. We get hits to both. It shouldn't be shocking that group performance is all...flustered...up.
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  5. #5

    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Agreed across the board Aestis. Sadly I don't think the systems team wants examine the issue, let alone engage the community in a discussion. Hopefully someone proves me wrong.
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  6. #6
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    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Few ideas to throw into the discussion:
    After playing other classes, and seeing what legacies are out there...it would be nice to see a + damage legacy for Endurance stance. Cap it at 10 percent, but at least that way it gives Hunters who wish to trait for it the chance at a little more DPS.

    Move our corruption counter removal skill to a skill that doesn't require the critter to be at 50 percent or lower health. Other classes don't have that restriction. Can change the number of corruption counters moved, to match the skill...but it shouldn't be so restricted.

    Maybe even add a skill called "Paint the target"..the Hunter, knowing his companions eyesight isn't as sharp as his or hers, hurls a flask of bright coloured dye at the target, painting it for those with less visual acuity than him/her. Effect: Target has +5% ranged vulnerability, or something like that.
    Not usable in Strength Stance.

    Book 8 will definitely rewrite a few of the class comparisons, especially since RKs will need more power to do most of what they currently can, especially in the fire line...even with Book 8 tho, a few things need to be added/adjusted for Hunters...not to make them supreme Kings of the DPS, but to put them back on level with other classes. I've noticed since Book 7 my Hunter gets very few invites for raids compared to beforehand. Now she's still only wielding a 3rd age Xbow...but the way the raids have gone, people prefer RKs, Champs, Burgs, and Captains over a Hunter...our main claim to fame on raids, ranged DPS, has been eroded...not severely, but enough that the perception warrants raid leaders going with other setups.
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  7. #7
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    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    I'm glad there are some of you out there that are still cool-headed and use your reason about the matter. Myself, I'm just fed up. You gotta love RKs getting a crit nerf in Book 8, but also getting a base attack damage increase!!! ###?? LOL Meanwhile, for Hunters it was just nerf bat to deep left field.

    Agreed, this isn't a Hunter/RK thing. I never want to see anybody get nerfed, especially Hunters. But it would be nice if someone at Turbine would get a clue. All of their bump emphasis on tactical classes is just making a mess of things; Minstrels that don't heal, LMs that are an OP army of one, and RKs that are a contrived do-it-all abomination to sell more expansion packs.

    Sorry for the rant. Great OP. Too bad nobody at Turbine is listening.

    /QQ-off
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  8. #8
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    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    I do love this post. I would like to see some endurance numbers for hunters. I am assuming we are going to see a lot of that come the bk8 raid (though personally I will be avoiding endurance like the plauge...).

    I hope that these numbers will be posted in a fair manner, and we can get some good direction moving forward about which stance to use when, because as it stands I truly feel the only stance we can use and stay 'on par' with other classes is strength. That isn't to say the content can't be beaten, only that we belong doing the content with the other classes.
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  9. #9
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    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Great post Aestis, well, except for this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Aestis25 View Post
    Either way, our group DPS needs to be brought back up to speed. I know Turbine is gearing RKs toward sustained single-target DPS and Hunters toward burst single-target DPS. Ok, fine. But Hunters still need to be a sustainable Tier 1 single-target DPS class, 95 cents on the RK dollar, or else they lose all utility in groups.
    BS! A class with a fully viable, alternate primary role should not be able to out-DPS the class with the singular, primary role of single-target DPS. Burst damage != DPS. We aren't supposed to be just the best at single-target, burst damage. We're supposed to be the best at single target DPS. We may never get that back, but I, for one, will not be satisfied with the class until we are.
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  10. #10
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    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dom12 View Post
    Great post Aestis, well, except for this:


    BS! A class with a fully viable, alternate primary role should not be able to out-DPS the class with the singular, primary role of single-target DPS. Burst damage != DPS. We aren't supposed to be just the best at single-target, burst damage. We're supposed to be the best at single target DPS. We may never get that back, but I, for one, will not be satisfied with the class until we are.

    Well, I realize I'll probably never be able to convince you otherwise, but the whole "fully viable, alternate primary role" is a convenient half-truth. If that's your argument, I could say the same thing about Hunters and CC. Because fully traited down the Trapper path, we also have a "fully viable, alternate primary role" that compares favorably with LRMs and far surpasses Burglars. Yet that wouldn't in reality be a great argument to make, for the same reasons it falls short with the RK class.

    RKs do need something they do best. If they didn't, then you'd always be better off bringing a Hunter or a Minstrel, and RKs would simply be the poor man's version of either. Suffice to say I think making RKs into a slightly better long-distance DPS'er than Hunters would be a wise direction in the long run, albeit an unpopular one in the short term.

    But the keys to that are two-fold:

    1. The word "slightly." Right now, the gap is HUGINORMANTIC.
    2. Hunters still need to be ahead of the rest of the pack for single-target sustained DPS. Right now, they aren't.
    .
    AestisMithrilbornAestos
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  11. #11
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    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Overtone View Post
    Sorry for the rant. Great OP. Too bad nobody at Turbine is listening.

    /QQ-off
    instead of ranting, I have chosen to vote with my wallet.
    Although im a lifer, I have only ever wanted to play a ranged class in any MMO so I chose a hunter x 5 for crafting. After the crafting debacle, i rarely play any of the alts.

    Now, quite fed up with the hunter nerf bat, I have given my money to funcom and am playing AoC.
    Next expansion? Ha, I'll wait and see how much deeper they drag the hunter and you can bet they will NOT be getting any more of my dollars!

    I bet they WILL listen to that.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/04208000000000572/01003/signature.png]Barnone[/charsig]

  12. #12

    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aestis25 View Post
    RKs do need something they do best.
    I can see both sides of that issue. IMO RKs do better at healing than hunters do CC even when the RK is traited for DPS and the hunter for CC. In addition, the role of healing is more important than CC in most cases. Finally, I don't necessarily think a class that is good at healing and good at DPS needs anything they "do best."

    However, I could live with the hunter being better burst DPS and RK better sustained DPS, provided that the line between burst DPS and sustained DPS was drawn far enough out.

    I don’t hold much hope, though, so I’m leveling alts. :P
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0920d0000001745d1/01003/signature.png]Imyr[/charsig]

  13. #13

    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    This is an excellent post but again, RKs have zero to do with us. We should be asking (and receiving) a bump to our dps simply because they over-nerfed us, nothing more, nothing less.
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  14. #14
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    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Gotta love game balance.
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  15. #15
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    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Excellent post, man. Probably one of the first (in the Hunter forums) I've actually read all the way through without rolling my eyes in a very long time. I appreciate you putting all of your thoughts down in a totally constructive manner because this is the stuff that gets positive attention at Turbine. Kudos.
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  16. #16
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    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    I'm one of those RK kinmates. I've my last 4 parses for the turtle run have all been in the 130k ballpark, some fights ranging from around 460 dps and some around the 430 dps mark. I'm probably at 95% of a RK's ceiling dps (as far as legacies are concerned).




    Again, the issue comes in sustained fights, and it's really not anything to do with the RK - in my opinion hunters were pretty heavily nerfed in the 2-for-1 nerf of book 7.
    Last edited by Thurindras; Jun 23 2009 at 08:07 AM.
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  17. #17
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    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thurindras View Post
    I'm probably at 98% of a RK's ceiling dps.
    And so humble about it =P




    But yea I agree of course. Hunters suck so badly I wish we could make them all go away and stop asking to come on runs =P
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  18. #18
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    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Great post, well thought out and reasoned, and a total waste of the poster's time. It will be fundamentally, violently, and enthusastically ignored throughout by the development team. Hunters will not be buffed. If anything, RK's will get slowly nerfed into oblivion, but it could take 2 years like it did with the hunter (at least we had book 6 for awhile).

    I still enjoy playing my hunter because I'm not even level 60 and I can only take this game in short doses anymore these days. Also, I've been here since the beginning and basically the original post (if sincerely seeking dev input and to have changes implemented based on the post's comments) is the worst form of opening a box and being punched in the face 150 times in a row and then opening the box the 151st time expecting to be given a gold brick.

    But seriously, I did like the post. I'm just so fed up with the hunter character development in this game being centered around how to cope, gear and trait-wise, with the latest nerf.
    .

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  19. #19
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    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Yeah, I know, I wasn't really saying it to boost my ego or anything, just trying to give more facts. Take it as you will
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  20. #20
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    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Excellent work. You have successfully documented what I have "perceived" or suspected. In conjunction with the post BK 7 damage parses initiated by Hakon and participated in by many, there is a very strong case for a solid rework of the class.

    I like to think the best of people, Turbine Devs included, I find it hard to believe that this is "working as intended."
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  21. #21

    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    What was the hunter's trait set up, what was his rotation, so that I can put this into perspective.
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  22. #22
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    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Another question: Was the hunter in close and auto-attacking with melee attacks or using ranged auto-attacks?

  23. #23
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    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    An excellent, well reasoned post.

    I agree with the conclusions. Many times, Turbine makes adjustments to classes too quickly after introducing new changes to content. It takes time for players to mature into the new content (gear, deeds, experience), and for all the ramifications to be apparent.

    I would like to add, that I think it is a mistake... a big one... to pigeonhole hunters into the "top single-target DPS" class. No one has made this mistake more than the devs themselves. Your post makes a great point about class DPS comparisons. The fact that this matters so much to every class in the game now, including healing and support classes, should tell the devs that something is terribly wrong. The fault lies in where they took the game and its classes over the last year.

    This game started with much more variety in its combat mechanic requirements. It used to be that Hunters added much more than DPS to a raid or group. Hunter crowd control, tracking, and ranged damage and skills used to be very usefull in the LoTRO world... for quests, deeds, and instances.

    When the devs gave hunters heartseeker and bragged on it, I knew they had DPS blinders on. We began changing from a utility class with good ranged DPS into a one-trick pony = ranged nuker. But that wasnt all, Moria changed the game requirements too...especially in raid instances. New raids are almost entirely about DPS, with a few tricks thrown in to make sure no single class can run it alone (usually). The richness of the old raid instances like Thoraug, CD and the Rift were gone though.

    Not only has the hunter been dumbed down and simplified, so has the game. Both need to change...together. If LoTRO continues down this path, the game will just be a matter of who can out-DPS the other; and if Moria is any indication, that will entirely depend on who has the best gear and hasnt been the latest nerfed class.
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  24. #24
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    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tzer View Post
    This game started with much more variety in its combat mechanic requirements. It used to be that Hunters added much more than DPS to a raid or group. Hunter crowd control, tracking, and ranged damage and skills used to be very usefull in the LoTRO world... for quests, deeds, and instances.
    Totally disagree with that. The types of fights have always been fairly similar. Hunter's have always had a very narrow role with next to no utility:
    1) CC: Bard's Arrow has always had extremely limited use as you can't chain it. I guess it had a tiny bit of utility before it got nerfed so that adds come running if you are unlucky when using it now. Rain of Thorns is far better than it was previously since they finally fixed the bug where it didn't stick half the time. There was never any use for either in a good group even without an LM in any instance. In a bad pug, you had (and still have) about a 1/100 chance of doing something truely useful with RoT.
    2) Tracking: was good for PvP until it got nerfed, and is useful for finding shard mobs, but has always had zero use in PvE groups.
    3) Ranged Damage and Skills: Isn't that just DPS again?


    It's just that players have gotten better, can take on more mobs at once, and actually realise more that Hunter's aren't useful, + care about getting through content faster.

    The two changes to content that I can think of that affect Hunters are:

    1) DPS in fights matters now:
    (eg: VM/Turtle) - previously (with few exceptions) you could take as long virtually as you wanted to kill stuff. This should have been a good thing for Hunter's except that our long term dps isn't good, sigh.

    2) There are some situations where ranged tanking, or killing stuff from range quickly is preferred:
    (eg: VM shaking tentacles, DD final boss adds) - pre MoM the only comparable situtations I can think of are the flying drake boss (lolz... cheap excuse to make Hunter's feel useful) and the Balrog for the first 10s (could be done by many classes really)

    Both 1&2 are things that should should make Hunter's more useful in content. Yay!
    But sadly DPS is so obsurdly low and threat gen/power usage so over the top that Hunter's are in fact essentially not any more useful than before.
    Last edited by Evendale; Jun 23 2009 at 03:02 AM.
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  25. #25
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    Re: An Objective DPS Comparison: Are Hunters a Tier 1 DPS Class?

    Good post. I have been making compensations for a while now in order to run 4 deep in the Bowmaster line without power issues. I was fortunate in obtaining a Lv 59 1st age xbow with both -power legacies on it. Along with that my ICPR is 900+ in solo/fellowship and 1k+ in raids. I have slightly less power issues than most other hunter running with 3 Bowmaster sloted. If I run 3 Bowmaster I have no power issues at all and do not need the help of a LM, even with the Watcher. The problem however arises when fighting bosses other than the Watcher and the Turtle in having to drop down to endurace which drops my DPS output significantly. When I can run 4 bowmaster in SS with that xbow I never have a RK pull aggro from me.

 

 
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