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  1. #1
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    Why the Balrog ran away from Gandalf ????

    anyone with knowledge, please help me why the Balrog ran away from Gandalf after they both fell into the underground water ?

    - Is it because the balrog lost his fire and became weaker (as a slime thing)

    - Is it because the environment there is so bad that both gandalf and the balrog flee the area ? what 'thing' can frighten both a balrog and a wizard that they ran away from ?

    - What gandalf seen in that underground area that spooked him soo much ? the 'thing' that gnaw ? what is that ? giant worm ? evil things ? natural things ? to be honest , the description reminded me of Lovecraftian stuff.

    - by what method gandalf kill the balrog ? did he use weapon/melee skill or did he use spell / maiar skill ? Even if they both maiar, their form is totally different with balrog as og as a monstrous giant beast and gandalf as frail old man. how can they both face each other in the same term ?

    - After killing the balrog, gandalf dies. did he dies because of wound or because of environment (cold) or because of exhaustion ?

    - Why Galadriel sent eagle to the mountains looking for gandalf ? did galadriel know about this fight and she knows that gandalf still alive ?

    - Back in the 'dwarf vs orc' battle outside moria , when Nain slew azog and he saw the balrog standing inside moria's gate, Why the balrog dont come out and kill the dwarves / help the orcs ? instead he hides inside ?

    - Is this map a true representation of Moria ? i mean from the books not the movies ?


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  2. Re: Why the Balrog ran away from Gandalf ????

    Quote Originally Posted by DPRIJADI1 View Post
    anyone with knowledge, please help me why the Balrog ran away from Gandalf after they both fell into the underground water ?
    Interesting question. I don't think it's because he was afraid of Gandalf - he had no problem facing him on the bridge. It's probably because he wants to get away from the water and to a place more suited for battle.

    - What gandalf seen in that underground area that spooked him soo much ? the 'thing' that gnaw ? what is that ? giant worm ? evil things ? natural things ? to be honest , the description reminded me of Lovecraftian stuff.
    The Nameless. All we know about them is that they are incredibly ancient. Gandalf refused to go into more detail.

    - by what method gandalf kill the balrog ? did he use weapon/melee skill or did he use spell / maiar skill ? Even if they both maiar, their form is totally different with balrog as og as a monstrous giant beast and gandalf as frail old man. how can they both face each other in the same term ?
    Gandalf is not frail. And he's not a man. They were equals in nature, if not in power. Apparently, Gandalf used both sword and power to bring the Balrog down.

    - After killing the balrog, gandalf dies. did he dies because of wound or because of environment (cold) or because of exhaustion ?
    He was wounded, and it didn't help that he fought the Balrog for several days on end.

    - Why Galadriel sent eagle to the mountains looking for gandalf ? did galadriel know about this fight and she knows that gandalf still alive ?
    I don't know about this. It could have been a completely chance meeting, or perhaps not. People knew something was happening on the mountain because of the fire and lights.

    - Back in the 'dwarf vs orc' battle outside moria , when Nain slew azog and he saw the balrog standing inside moria's gate, Why the balrog dont come out and kill the dwarves / help the orcs ? instead he hides inside ?
    It was his day off? Don't know...

    - Is this map a true representation of Moria ? i mean from the books not the movies ?


    http://www.danielreeve.co.nz/Maps/
    The only detailed description of Moria is the path the Fellowship took. All other rooms have to be an educated guess by the illustrator.
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  3. #3

    Re: Why the Balrog ran away from Gandalf ????

    Quote Originally Posted by DPRIJADI1 View Post
    - Back in the 'dwarf vs orc' battle outside moria , when Nain slew azog and he saw the balrog standing inside moria's gate, Why the balrog dont come out and kill the dwarves / help the orcs ? instead he hides inside ?
    Just a guess but the Balrog was content to rule Moria until the return of Morgoth. If the Dwarves or anyone else attempted to invade his turf he would deal with it for certain. As for Dwarves killing Orcs, he likely didn't care much. He would have seen endless Orc slaughter during the First Age and knew they were expendable cannon fodder.
    "You can't fight the Enemy with his own Ring without turning into an Enemy" - J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter # 81



  4. #4
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    Re: Why the Balrog ran away from Gandalf ????

    Quote Originally Posted by DPRIJADI1 View Post

    - Back in the 'dwarf vs orc' battle outside moria , when Nain slew azog and he saw the balrog standing inside moria's gate, Why the balrog dont come out and kill the dwarves / help the orcs ? instead he hides inside ?
    I don't think Dain really saw Durin's Bane, but rather knew that it was still within the halls. I don't think the Balrog was standing anywhere near the East Gate, certainly not close enough to watch.

    As for why it didn't help, I'd guess it didn't really care. Orcs probably left the halls to go pillage/****/burn/etc quite often, so it would seem like a usual day. Heck, it was probably sleeping at the time.
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  5. #5
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    Re: Why the Balrog ran away from Gandalf ????

    - Why Galadriel sent eagle to the mountains looking for gandalf ? did galadriel know about this fight and she knows that gandalf still alive ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Arasilion View Post
    I don't know about this. It could have been a completely chance meeting, or perhaps not. People knew something was happening on the mountain because of the fire and lights.
    Plus, she had this little thing known as The Mirror of Galadriel.
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  6. Re: Why the Balrog ran away from Gandalf ????

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddhawk View Post
    Plus, she had this little thing known as The Mirror of Galadriel.
    Quiet, you.
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  7. #7
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    Re: Why the Balrog ran away from Gandalf ????

    Quote Originally Posted by DPRIJADI1 View Post
    anyone with knowledge, please help me why the Balrog ran away from Gandalf after they both fell into the underground water ?

    - Is it because the balrog lost his fire and became weaker (as a slime thing)
    Well if you use the example from Echelion (god only knows how much i wish i could spell) And his battle with Gothmog. Gothmog was slain by a simple wound when he fire was extinguished so its possible the rog knew he was killable by even simple weapons without his fire so he ran.

    Quote Originally Posted by DPRIJADI1 View Post
    - Is it because the environment there is so bad that both gandalf and the balrog flee the area ? what 'thing' can frighten both a balrog and a wizard that they ran away from ?
    - What gandalf seen in that underground area that spooked him soo much ? the 'thing' that gnaw ? what is that ? giant worm ? evil things ? natural things ? to be honest , the description reminded me of Lovecraftian stuff.
    I don't think the stuff scared him as much as he didn't have power over it and he was i an weakened state so he couldn't send them to attack gandalf so he could recover. Once you get to Foundation of stone in moria you will see the stuff can be a little messed up but ehh they can't put true horror in a video game. If I knew how to design stuff i would gladly lend a hand creating some scary stuff for them to put down there

    Quote Originally Posted by DPRIJADI1 View Post
    - Back in the 'dwarf vs orc' battle outside moria , when Nain slew azog and he saw the balrog standing inside moria's gate, Why the balrog dont come out and kill the dwarves / help the orcs ? instead he hides inside ?
    Don't know but possibly the sunlight may have stopped him. Just because he was uber powerful doesn't mean he liked the sun. There had to be a reason why he didn't leave moria some people have already talked about it. Possibly if the Durins bane's imprisonment in moria was not self inflicted (i don't think the books go into detail here but idk) He may have been trapped by a powerful force the same one that trapped him miles underground was smart and placed a second "barrier" of sorts and thus would be unable to physically leave the mines


    I answered what i think i knew. But don't quote me im no lore monkey
    Last edited by whatever76543; May 27 2009 at 06:24 PM.

  8. #8
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    Re: Why the Balrog ran away from Gandalf ????

    what if the balrog didnt want to show his face and let everyone know there is still a balrog hiding inside moria ? i believe the elven race have a kind of standing order to eliminate all rogue maiar in middle earth ?

    so he kept hiding till he met his match , a maiar just like him..

    btw.. did LOTRO:MORIA show what the unnamable fears that gandalf seen ?
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  9. Re: Why the Balrog ran away from Gandalf ????

    Quote Originally Posted by DPRIJADI1 View Post
    what if the balrog didnt want to show his face and let everyone know there is still a balrog hiding inside moria ? i believe the elven race have a kind of standing order to eliminate all rogue maiar in middle earth ?
    They don't. Even if they did, only a select few could possibly have a chance of fighting one.

    btw.. did LOTRO:MORIA show what the unnamable fears that gandalf seen ?
    Yes, you see Turbine's interpretation of the Nameless in the Foundations of Stone.
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  10. #10
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    Re: Why the Balrog ran away from Gandalf ????

    Quote Originally Posted by DPRIJADI1 View Post
    - Why Galadriel sent eagle to the mountains looking for gandalf ? did galadriel know about this fight and she knows that gandalf still alive ?
    http://www.danielreeve.co.nz/Maps/
    I haven't taken the time to check, but I vaguely remember something in LOTR about the 3 elven ring bearers being connected and knowing each other's minds. I think it was in RotK when they were travelling from Gondor back to Rivendell, the Shire etc. There was something about Elrond, Galadriel and Gandalf sitting together not speaking but sharing each other's thoughts. A passing animal would have thought they were stone statues. Something to that effect. So, while they probably needed to be close and "still" to share direct thoughts, Galadriel probably knew Gandalf was in big trouble when he died, was dieing, or was reborn.
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  11. #11
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    Re: Why the Balrog ran away from Gandalf ????

    the balrog in moria.. i find there still lot of mystery surrounding the story..

    is this balrog cannot be killed by any ordinary weapons ? just like gandalf the white easily deflect the attack of legolas/aragorn/gimli ? i think moria dwarves wont surrender the place so easily without a fight.. and they must have lots of weapon to deal with such monster..
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  12. #12
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    Re: Why the Balrog ran away from Gandalf ????

    Quote Originally Posted by DPRIJADI1 View Post
    the balrog in moria.. i find there still lot of mystery surrounding the story..

    is this balrog cannot be killed by any ordinary weapons ? just like gandalf the white easily deflect the attack of legolas/aragorn/gimli ? i think moria dwarves wont surrender the place so easily without a fight.. and they must have lots of weapon to deal with such monster..
    Hmm throw a rock as a monster made out of Flame and shadow yea thats gonna work. And yes the dwarves tried to fight for a long long long time but they new the couldn't win. I just did a quest today explaining that they were searching for an ax named Dragonslayer (an awesome looking axe btw) to try and kill Durins bane but they failed to find it in time. I don't think 1 (decent sized but small compared to durins bane) axe would make much of a difference.

  13. #13
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    Re: Why the Balrog ran away from Gandalf ????

    They should just called Moria's Fire Department Co... and hose that flamy thingy
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  14. #14
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    Re: Why the Balrog ran away from Gandalf ????

    Quote Originally Posted by DPRIJADI1 View Post
    They should just called Moria's Fire Department Co... and hose that flamy thingy
    I hope you're joking.... I dont think we have any documented fires of the type that need a fire department in Middle-earth. In a giant rock city, carved into a mountain, they wouldnt have had stuff to put out that kind of fire.
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  15. #15

    Re: Why the Balrog ran away from Gandalf ????

    Gandalf is likely one of the few beings in Middle-earth who represents a threat to a creature such as a balrog.... it is likely only another Maia or an Exile would be capable of defeating a balrog.

    Balrogs do not really seem susceptable to mundane weaponry wielded by "normal" people... Gandalf himself says to the Fellowship:

    "This is a foe beyond any of you." This includes Aragorn, who is probably one of the most powerful men left alive, a descendant of Melian the Maia, who is also wielding one of the more noted weapons in Middle-earth, forged in the first Age by the same smith (Telchar of Nogrod, a dwarf) who forged the knife that cut a Silmaril from Morgoth's Iron Crown.

    Durin's Bane managed to drive an army of dwarves from Khazad-dum... he fell from the Bridge and (apparently) was not injured... if you can fall several hundred (or more) feet and walk away from it, chances are that getting hit by a piece of sharp metal isn't going to do much to you.

    It is my thought that combat between balrogs and other powerful beings occurs largely in the Spirit realm, in that it is a contest of wills that decides the combat rather than a purely physical confrontation (hence the essential requirement that it be a similar power or an Exile that fights the balrog)... no being who is not present in both the physical and spiritual realm woukld really have a chance in a fight a gainst a balrog (hence Durin Bane's ability to drive the dwarves from Khazad-Dum).

    The fight between Gandalf and the balrog appears to have been very equal... Gandalf apparently barely defeats the balrog and dies as a result of the fight, most likely from something similar to exhaustion.

  16. #16
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    Re: Why the Balrog ran away from Gandalf ????

    Quote Originally Posted by Kosomot View Post
    Gandalf is likely one of the few beings in Middle-earth who represents a threat to a creature such as a balrog.... it is likely only another Maia or an Exile would be capable of defeating a balrog.
    That was true for that time frame. back in the 1st age, there were several balrogs that were killed by elves, some in single combat. Granted, the people killing the balrogs also died, but still,
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  17. #17
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    Re: Why the Balrog ran away from Gandalf ????

    Quote Originally Posted by Kosomot View Post
    Gandalf is likely one of the few beings in Middle-earth who represents a threat to a creature such as a balrog.... it is likely only another Maia or an Exile would be capable of defeating a balrog.
    so saruman and raghadast have an equal chance to defeat this durin's bane ?

    i have a hunch that Huan the hound of valinor can beat this balrog to pulp easily
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  18. #18
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    Re: Why the Balrog ran away from Gandalf ????

    Radagast would have recognized the threat, being Valinórean, but I doubt he would have stood even a remote chance against the Balrog. Saruman probably would have made a good stab at it, if you pardon the pun, but he was more interested in crafts -his own and those of the Enemy- than to honing his will to be able to defeat such a creature.
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  19. #19
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    Re: Why the Balrog ran away from Gandalf ????

    Did the Balrog initially recognize Gandalf as being of the same order of being as himself? Remember, he was clothed in mortal form, and only a very few of the Eldar even knew what he truly was. Gandalf knew what the Balrog was due to his knowledge of the lore of ME at the very least. But the Balrog might well not have realized what Gandalf was until the battle was already underway. Remember, it had been locked away from the end of the First Age until well into the Third Age, and hadn't been out of Moria since it's emergence. It's also unlikely that it had regular tea with the Orcs to catch up on the news, if the Orcs even knew what Gandalf was.
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  20. #20
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    Re: Why the Balrog ran away from Gandalf ????

    Quote Originally Posted by Siegfriedpf View Post
    Did the Balrog initially recognize Gandalf as being of the same order of being as himself? Remember, he was clothed in mortal form, and only a very few of the Eldar even knew what he truly was. Gandalf knew what the Balrog was due to his knowledge of the lore of ME at the very least. But the Balrog might well not have realized what Gandalf was until the battle was already underway. Remember, it had been locked away from the end of the First Age until well into the Third Age, and hadn't been out of Moria since it's emergence. It's also unlikely that it had regular tea with the Orcs to catch up on the news, if the Orcs even knew what Gandalf was.
    This idea may also be supported by Gandalf 'announcing' himself to the Balrog on the Bridge.

    "'You cannot pass,' he said. The orcs stood still, and a dead silence fell. 'I am a servant of the Secret Fire, wielder of the flame of Anor. You cannot pass."

    Is he revealing his true nature to the Balrog?
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  21. Re: Why the Balrog ran away from Gandalf ????

    Gandalf could sense the Balrog's power even before seeing him. I'm sure the feeling was mutual. Besides, both would reside simultaneously in the physical and spiritual realm, so the Balrog would know that whoever was standing before him in that silly gray hat was, at the very least, a spirit of some kind.
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  22. #22
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    Re: Why the Balrog ran away from Gandalf ????

    http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/f/flameofanor.html

    I think by saying "Anor" which means Sun, he revealed that he was a servant of the Lords of the West, who created the Sun and the Tree from whence it sprang. I find the LotR: Conquest rendering of this hysterically funny.

    "...Wielder of the flame of Arnor! The dark fire shall not avail you, Flame of Udon!"

    It cracked me up.
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  23. #23
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    Re: Why the Balrog ran away from Gandalf ????

    Quote Originally Posted by TheOneRinger View Post
    I find the LotR: Conquest rendering of this hysterically funny.

    "...Wielder of the flame of Arnor! The dark fire shall not avail you, Flame of Udon!"
    Oh gosh! Did they really confuse Anor with Arnor?
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  24. #24

    Re: Why the Balrog ran away from Gandalf ????

    and Udun with some place called Udon ?? Too bad they couldn't look it up in a book...oh wait....
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  25. #25

    Re: Why the Balrog ran away from Gandalf ????

    what exactly does udun mean in that context? if i remember correctly, udun is a place in mordor, but what does a balrog have to do with mordor?

 

 
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