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  1. #1
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    Hobbit Movie Formats Confirmed: 1 Hobbit - 2 Films

    http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2009...obbit-2-films/

    April 17th, 2009

    From www.empireonline.com: And the world exclusives from our 20th birthday issue – guest-edited by Steven Spielberg – continue to pile up… We’ve known for a while that Peter Jackson and Guillermo Del Toro’s eagerly-awaited adaptation of the Lord Of The Rings prequel, The Hobbit, would comprise two movies, due in December 2011 and 2012. But the make-up of those two movies has been up for debate… until now. We spoke exclusively to both Del Toro and Jackson for our birthday issue, and they told us the latest, which is…

    “We’ve decided to have The Hobbit span the two movies, including the White Council and the comings and goings of Gandalf to Dol Guldur,” says Del Toro.

    “We decided it would be a mistake to try to cram everything into one movie,” adds Jackson. “The essential brief was to do The Hobbit, and it allows us to make The Hobbit in a little more style, if you like, of the [LOTR] trilogy.”

    So there you go. The second film will not, as had previously been suggested, a film that will bridge the 60-year gap between The Hobbit and the start of Fellowship Of The Ring.
    Last edited by celticrocks; Apr 17 2009 at 10:19 PM.
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  2. Re: Hobbit Movie Formats Confirmed: 1 Hobbit - 2 Films

    Exciting news! But I still don't trust del Toro as far as I can throw him. I'm going to be pessimistic until I actually see the films in theaters.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Hobbit Movie Formats Confirmed: 1 Hobbit - 2 Films

    Sweet! I was wondering how they could bridge the 60 year gap without much writing to go on... This will work much much better! Also means they will have alot more detail from the book in the movie
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  4. #4

    Re: Hobbit Movie Formats Confirmed: 1 Hobbit - 2 Films

    this is good news! but how would they add in the story of the council and gandalf and the fight at dol Guldur? i dont remember anything written about that fight not like the raid that the lady of loth had at the end of lotr and i agree with Arasilion. I'm going to be pessimistic untill i see it.

  5. #5

    Re: Hobbit Movie Formats Confirmed: 1 Hobbit - 2 Films

    Gandalf's comings and goings in The Hobbit are not chronicled there probably because it might have given away too much of the future story(assuming he knew he was going to write the trilogy), while the hobbit was really about Bilbo and his adventures with the dwarves. If you own the trilogy there is an extensive chronology of events in the Return of the King index including pieces of Gandalf's investigation of Dol Goldur. Also Tolkien had written so much material that there may be things not mentioned in the chronology but written down somewhere else, so they may have even more material that they can mine somewhere, but thats just speculation

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  6. #6

    Re: Hobbit Movie Formats Confirmed: 1 Hobbit - 2 Films

    Quote Originally Posted by medwulf View Post
    Gandalf's comings and goings in The Hobbit are not chronicled there probably because it might have given away too much of the future story(assuming he knew he was going to write the trilogy), while the hobbit was really about Bilbo and his adventures with the dwarves. If you own the trilogy there is an extensive chronology of events in the Return of the King index including pieces of Gandalf's investigation of Dol Goldur. Also Tolkien had written so much material that there may be things not mentioned in the chronology but written down somewhere else, so they may have even more material that they can mine somewhere, but thats just speculation
    then i must have missed it. ill have to take a look

  7. #7
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    Re: Hobbit Movie Formats Confirmed: 1 Hobbit - 2 Films

    The problem with them using other materials is that they only have access to the trilogy and the hobbit, and Christopher Tolkien isn't going to let them at ANY other writing anytime soon.








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  8. #8

    Re: Hobbit Movie Formats Confirmed: 1 Hobbit - 2 Films

    so, will it be one movie about the white council stuff and one movie about the events of the hobbit, or will the hobbit be split in two with the white council stuff thrown in randomly.

    i would much prefer the first option. second would be terrible if you ask me

  9. #9

    Re: Hobbit Movie Formats Confirmed: 1 Hobbit - 2 Films

    i think its going to be intertwined kinda like in the return of the king with the proggress of frodo and the story of aragorn going to gondor.

  10. #10
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    Re: Hobbit Movie Formats Confirmed: 1 Hobbit - 2 Films

    Quote Originally Posted by newwwwb View Post
    so, will it be one movie about the white council stuff and one movie about the events of the hobbit, or will the hobbit be split in two with the white council stuff thrown in randomly.
    They were originally considering 1 Hobbit film and 1 film about other issues (e.g. The White Council, Aragorn's early years and tracking of Gollum, etc.), however this recent news indicates that they will instead split The Hobbit into two movies and fill them out with the extra material interwoven with the main plot.
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  11. #11

    Re: Hobbit Movie Formats Confirmed: 1 Hobbit - 2 Films

    I'm somewhat heartened to hear that. The concept of a movie that covered the space between the Hobbit and LOTR I felt was a bad idea, too many different threads that finally begin to weave together in Fellowship of the Ring. Let's look at the chronology - Bilbo putters around in the Shire for about 60 years and adopts Frodo. Gollum starts his search for Bilbo but he really doesn't have much of an idea which way to look. Sauron returns to Mordor and begins building his power. Aragorn learns of his true ancestry and meets Arwen for the first time. The White Council meets for the last time and Saruman withdraws to Isengard. Aragorn adventures incognito in Rohan, Gondor and further afield when he returns he meets Arwen again in Lorien. Various characters in LOTR are born. Not much of a movie there although Peter Jackson and co. would likely go overboard on the Aragorn/Arwen thing again. Most audiences would be quite confused with the multiple story lines. You could put in the part about captured Gollum but it occured after Bilbo's party so it should have been in the first movie. To make a viable story so much would be added and rearranged it would start to resemble fan-fiction.

    The White Council issues can be interwoven into the Hobbit without to much disruption to the narrative. They met at Rivendell while Bilbo and the Dwarves were there. The attack on Dol Guldur might make a nice diversion for the Audience while Bilbo is trapped in the Elf kingdom trying to figure out how he might get himself and the dwarves out of there. You could even start the movie with Gandalf entering Dol Guldur and finding Thrain, figuring out the Necromancer is really Sauron, etc. It would get the movie kick-started with dramatics very quickly. Alternatively start it with Gandalf having his chance meeting with Thorin on the road to Bree, discussing Smaug and what to do about it, throw in some flashbacks of Gandalf exploring Dol Guldur as mentioned above, hmmm I have an idea says Gandalf......cut to Hobbiton and poor Bilbo, having tea, blissfully unaware of what's about to happen... I'd also like to see a scene in Rivendell with Bilbo exploring around just as the White Council are about to meet. Saruman nearly trips over him and in his high and mighty style asks something like "What is this creature ?" Gandalf introduces him as Mr. Bilbo Baggins, a Hobbit of the Shire. Saruman rudely moves on to the council meeting dismissing all Hobbits as fools and buffoons and Gandalf guilty by association. This makes Saruman aware of Hobbits but considers them of little account in his mighty designs.

    The film-makers do have a problem, as mentioned earlier in this thread. They have access to only "The Hobbit" and "The Lord of the Rings". Other materials including "The Quest of Erebor" in "Unfinished Tales" are off limits due to rights. Unfortunate. I hope they don't write silly things to complete the story.

    Next question - where do you break the movie into two ? My preference is to get Gollum and the Ring into movie one so one natural break point is right after Bilbo escapes out the side door. He now on the wrong side of the Misty Mountains and has no idea where Gandalf and the Dwarves escaped to and has this huge unknown land streatching out before him.... "Oh dear!" as Bilbo might say. (If it was me instead of Bilbo I'd use another word instead of "dear" but forum rules prevent me from elaborating any further )
    "You can't fight the Enemy with his own Ring without turning into an Enemy" - J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter # 81



  12. #12
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    Re: Hobbit Movie Formats Confirmed: 1 Hobbit - 2 Films

    Quote Originally Posted by celticrocks View Post

    “We decided it would be a mistake to try to cram everything into one movie,” adds Jackson.
    "We decided it would be a mistake to only make money off of one movie when we can easily get you lemmings into the theater for two!" is what he really means.

  13. #13

    Re: Hobbit Movie Formats Confirmed: 1 Hobbit - 2 Films

    Perhaps, but if it makes for a better movie I'm all for it. I've seen too many books get slashed to death when being adapted to film.
    "You can't fight the Enemy with his own Ring without turning into an Enemy" - J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter # 81



  14. #14

    Re: Hobbit Movie Formats Confirmed: 1 Hobbit - 2 Films

    the issue i have with the two movie format is; where to break it off?

    at least with lotro being broken into 3 parts, each part is really a story by itself and has a distinct ending. fellowship of the ring ends with the breaking of the fellowship, the towers ends with the end of the conflict between saruman and rohan. i dont really see where you can neatly divide the hobbit into 2 parts.

  15. #15

    Re: Hobbit Movie Formats Confirmed: 1 Hobbit - 2 Films

    It's a tough choice as most movie goers like a start and an end but the precedent has been set with the first three movies so it's no surprise this go around that there's a part two. I made my break point suggestion above. I'd enjoy reading how others would deal with it.

    This reminds me of the first time I saw Fellowship in a theatre, right at the end when Aragorn says "Let's hunt some Orc." and the movie ends, I heard some young lady behind me exclaim "What ?" Obviously she never read the book
    "You can't fight the Enemy with his own Ring without turning into an Enemy" - J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter # 81



  16. #16

    Re: Hobbit Movie Formats Confirmed: 1 Hobbit - 2 Films

    I suppose a possible break point could be right after the dwarves are captured by the spiders, as everything goes dark when the elves take out the fires, and the dwarves are all running around yelling, or possibly right after Bilbo saves them and they are captured by the elves, leaving the rescue by Bilbo for the beginning of the next movie. Though I do like Tuor66's idea for the break point being right as Bilbo comes out on the other side of the Misty Mountains, all alone and with no idea what to do.

    (For some reason I can almost see a Quantum Leap moment there "Oh boy")
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  17. #17
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    Re: Hobbit Movie Formats Confirmed: 1 Hobbit - 2 Films

    Quote Originally Posted by tuor66 View Post
    I made my break point suggestion above. I'd enjoy reading how others would deal with it.
    I think the point right after Beorn's house would make a decent break point. It almost reminds me of the breaking of the fellowship at the end of The Fellowship of the Ring. You have Bilbo and the dwarves just about to enter the eaves of Mirkwood. Meanwhile, Gandalf heads south to deal with the issues of the White Council at Dol Guldur. Riddles in the Dark would be the climax of the film, followed by the rescue by the eagles in the burning forest. The point from the Eagle's Eyrie past the Carrock and on to Beorn's house would make a nice point of dénouement. It would allow for a somewhat light hearted end after the suspensful center of the film in Goblin-town. Additionally, the looming uncertainty of Mirkwood on the horizon would leave just the right amount of suspense and wonder going into the second film--rather like Sam and Frodo staring down upon the Emyn Muil in The Fellowship.

    The Second Film could then pick up with the events of the White Council and the driving out of the Necromancer from Dol Guldur. This film would reach its climax with Bard's killing of Smaug, followed by the Battle of Five Armies, rather like the Battle of the Pelennor Fields near the end of the Lord of the Rings films. The dénouement would then come with the death of Thorin and Bilbo's subsequent journey home, only to find Bag End being auctioned off.

    Overall, I think this division provides a nice symmetry to the two films, as well as between them and The Lord of the Rings film trilogy. Furthermore, it allows for both films to culminate in action packed centers, followed by somewhat light hearted endings, which seems apt for The Hobbit.
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  18. #18
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    Re: Hobbit Movie Formats Confirmed: 1 Hobbit - 2 Films

    Quote Originally Posted by tuor66 View Post

    This reminds me of the first time I saw Fellowship in a theatre, right at the end when Aragorn says "Let's hunt some Orc."

    Oh god, don't remind me. That was literally one of the worst lines in movie history. Who's writing this thing? Not PJ and co, please? Please, please?

    My concern is where exactly are they getting all the material needed for two movies? The Hobbit isn't a very long book. It's a very simple story. Does this mean they're going to end up fleshing things out with made up conflicts (a la Faramir taking Frodo to Osgiliath) or with useless sequences designed to show off special effects (the Fellowship teetering on the broken bridge thingy in Moria)? I certainly hope not.

    My theory is that they're going to stylize the White Council as the classic conflict between the corrupt and/or incompetent government official (Saruman) attempting to put down the lone Maverick (Gandalf) who is the only one willing to take the necessary risks while Spaceholders 1-4 (Radagast, Galadriel, Elrond and Cirdan) sit nearby looking troubled. This will be drawn out as much as possible so that Gandalf has plenty of opportunity for snappy one liners.

  19. Re: Hobbit Movie Formats Confirmed: 1 Hobbit - 2 Films

    Quote Originally Posted by tuor66 View Post
    and the movie ends, I heard some young lady behind me exclaim "What ?" Obviously she never read the book
    Well, it's slightly less embarrassing than me exclaiming "IT CAN END THERE!" when the movie fades to black with Frodo and Sam surrounded by lava near the end of ROTK.

    Needless to say, I also haven't read the books at that time....
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  20. #20

    Re: Hobbit Movie Formats Confirmed: 1 Hobbit - 2 Films

    Quote Originally Posted by Arasilion View Post
    Well, it's slightly less embarrassing than me exclaiming "IT CAN END THERE!" when the movie fades to black with Frodo and Sam surrounded by lava near the end of ROTK.

    Needless to say, I also haven't read the books at that time....
    Many of us read the books long before the movie. As someone who went in the opposite order what are your opinions on the book vs the movie ? Any change in your opinions on the films before and after ?
    "You can't fight the Enemy with his own Ring without turning into an Enemy" - J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter # 81



  21. Re: Hobbit Movie Formats Confirmed: 1 Hobbit - 2 Films

    Quote Originally Posted by tuor66 View Post
    Many of us read the books long before the movie. As someone who went in the opposite order what are your opinions on the book vs the movie ? Any change in your opinions on the films before and after ?
    The books kick the movies ****, hands down. Yet they will always have a special place in my heart for introducing me to Tolkien. Now, PJ has made some mistakes in adapting the books to movies - some minor, some bone-headily stupid.

    Fellowship of the Ring couldn't have been done any better, IMO; but The Two Towers could have been MUCH improved. For one thing, the movie focused way too much on the battle at Helm's Deep and left poor Frodo off-screen way too much and Faramir should sue for libel. The Elves at Helm's Deep never really ticked me off like it did some people; but what did tick me off is how easily they die (especially the one dude that ran into a stationary pike at full speed). I also like how, when Aragorn & Co. met Gandalf for the first time in Fangorn, Gandalf's voice was a mixture of Saruman's and Gandalf's. For someone that didn't see the trailer or read the books, they could have easily mistook Gandalf for Saruman or someone else entirely.

    Return of the King was a big improvement; but there's no reason to make Denethor look like a raving mad man. Sure, it was pulled off great; but it would have been much better if it was revealed that Denethor's use of the Palantir turned him to despair NOT insanity. It would have been a very powerful theme - never giving up hope - but it was ignored. Frodo leaving Sam outside of Shelob's Lair should also have been left out; but when I viewed it, I was literally trying to hold back tears, so I guess they pulled it off well even if it should never have been filmed. Also, there's no reason to have left out the Voice of Saruman scene. For all the audience knows, Saruman was still cooped up in Orthanc.

    Generally speaking, though, Legolas and Frodo were entirely miscast and they did a disservice to Gimli, reducing him to nothing more than comic relief. The dialog between Frodo and Sam should have been entirely rewritten, because it was waaaaay to sappy. The romance between Aragorn in Arwen shouldn't have taken as much screen time, but I'm glad it was put in - it wasn't a minor event. But if they trimmed those scenes down, a lot more time would have been left to leave in such scenes at the Voice of Saruman and Sons of the Steward. Luckily, we have them in the Extended Editions, but they should have been left in the theatrical releases.

    Overall, as a Tolkien nerd to the core, PJ did about as good a job as we could hope to have. I want to slap him for making the Gondorian and Elven soldiers look like frightened children instead of the battle-hardened veterans that they were; but I applaud him for making me cry during the deaths of Gandalf and Boromir, cheer in excitement when Gandalf came riding towards Helm's Deep, for making my heart burst with excitement when the Rohirrim arrived at Minas Tirith, and for making me sad that I will no longer have another LOTR movie to look forward to. Sure, The Hobbit is in the making, but I don't trust del Toro.

    The LOTR trilogy is still my top three favorite movies of all time.
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  22. #22
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    Re: Hobbit Movie Formats Confirmed: 1 Hobbit - 2 Films

    I agree with Arasilion that the first movie would be hard to adapt better, most readers seem to fail at the fellowship hurdle as it is considered a bit slow, however the "ooh look, the Shards of Narsil" scene was one of the worst in the trilogy.

    What bugs me most about the movies is the making the characters morally equovocate over all their decisions, does Aragorn want to be king today, who does he love Arwen or Eowen, will Theoden feel old and doddering or will he feel like fighting?. Modern movie audiences may demand this fleshing out of the characters but im of the opinion that the continued attraction of the book is that we trust and admire the kingly and forthright nature of Aragorn, Theoden and Faramir because we seldom see it in the real world. Faramir shows his qualities instantly in the book thats why we respond to him, but for the sake of suspense we have to see him stuff around in the movie and are left luke warm on him.

    I never had the energy to listen to the comentary in the movies, so dont know if the expanded Arwen part was due to increase the supposed female demographic apeal of the movie or to entice Liv Tyler to the role, it should be noted that there are no female characters in "The Hobbit" so I wont be surprised if a chainmail bikini clad archer Arwen accompanies the dwarves from Rivendell and ends up nailing Smaug with her trusty elven longbow (No one will miss Bard anyway hes terribly gloomy)(as long as she pontificates on the rights and wrongs of slaying the last of the royal dragons before hand to add depth to her character).
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  23. #23
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    Re: Hobbit Movie Formats Confirmed: 1 Hobbit - 2 Films

    Quote Originally Posted by Arasilion View Post
    Sure, The Hobbit is in the making, but I don't trust del Toro.

    The LOTR trilogy is still my top three favorite movies of all time.
    This blows my mind. Jackson... isn't even a good movie maker. He got lucky with LOTR because 1) he was working with exceptional material and 2) he was shrewd enough to surround himself with talented people (not including his writers).

    Why don't you trust Del Toro? Would you trust Jackson? Jackson obviously didn't understand his material. It was just a vehicle to success for him. From interviews I have read with Del Toro, he at least seems to get it more and he obviously knows how to tell a story. With Del Toro I at least have some hope that it will be a decent movie. If Jackson were directing, I wouldn't even go see it. Hopefully being a producer doesn't mean he can get his grubby hands all over it.

  24. #24
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    Re: Hobbit Movie Formats Confirmed: 1 Hobbit - 2 Films

    Not much information lol but thought i'de post it for anybody who cares for anything more

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0903624/
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  25. #25

    Re: Hobbit Movie Formats Confirmed: 1 Hobbit - 2 Films

    Quote Originally Posted by medwulf View Post
    Gandalf's comings and goings in The Hobbit are not chronicled there probably because it might have given away too much of the future story(assuming he knew he was going to write the trilogy)
    He didn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddhawk
    the looming uncertainty of Mirkwood on the horizon would leave just the right amount of suspense and wonder going into the second film--rather like Sam and Frodo staring down upon the Emyn Muil in The Fellowship.
    I couldn't agree more. This is the exact image I had in my head when I read the suggestion on another post. Gandalf has ridden away, Thorin and Co. are there staring at this horrible stretch of forest. The camera pans up to reveal the great length of the forest and there beyond, the Lonely Mountain. It might even zoom all the way into the Mountain and show the napping Smaug.
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