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Thread: Tolkien & Race

  1. #26

    Re: Tolkien & Race

    Quote Originally Posted by tuor66 View Post
    The fact ? I don't think there are any facts to support this idea. A number of people have already posted evidence to the contrary in earlier replies in this same thread. According to my dictionary anti-semetic is the adj. form of the noun anti-semite, defined as "One who discriminates against or who is hostile toward or prejudiced against Jews." I don't see that anywhere in his writings or even in the Interview quoted earlier. Tolkien's dwarves are noble people who achieved much to be proud of. If Tolkien says that his dwarves might remind you of Jews perhaps he purposely did this in homage ?
    im sorry if my wording wasnt perfect, perhaps i should have said i wasnt aware that anyone felt tolkien was anti-semetic before reading this thread. i do not.

    however, do keep in mind that there are such things as positive stereotypes. even if tolkien modeled dwarves after jews in a 'positive' sense, that would still be something to be concerned about. it would be like writing about a fictional group of people who are good at math and having them based on asians, because, asians are good at math, right?

    anyway, i dont think tolkiens writing is racist or anything.

  2. #27

    Re: Tolkien & Race

    Agreed positive stereotypes can be almost as bad as the negative ones. I don't think there's any of these in Tolkien's work either. The only thing I can think of that comes close to stereotypes in Tolkien's fiction is the very typical idea in literature that "evil" is positively evil and without remorse but "good" has a choice to make towards either end of the spectrum.
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS]"You can't fight the Enemy with his own Ring without turning into an Enemy" - J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter # 81


    [/FONT]

  3. Re: Tolkien & Race

    Quote Originally Posted by tuor66 View Post
    Agreed positive stereotypes can be almost as bad as the negative ones. I don't think there's any of these in Tolkien's work either. The only thing I can think of that comes close to stereotypes in Tolkien's fiction is the very typical idea in literature that "evil" is positively evil and without remorse but "good" has a choice to make towards either end of the spectrum.
    And even this isn't concrete, as far as Tolkien's intentions are concerned. I've read that Tolkien had second thoughts of making the Orcs so two-dimensional. It would have been interesting to see an Orc break free of his bonds and renounce Sauron. I suppose that's what fanfiction is for :-p

  4. #29

    Re: Tolkien & Race

    That would be an interesting read. Gollum almost came back to the good side in one of his internal discussions with himself. Imagine if an orc set Merry and Pippin free just before the Rohirim attack because he didn't want them to be abused or eaten (in whole or in part) or get killed in the melee that was about to happen
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS]"You can't fight the Enemy with his own Ring without turning into an Enemy" - J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter # 81


    [/FONT]

  5. #30
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    Re: Tolkien & Race

    That is interesting indeed!

    It might be good to remember that all things in Middle-earth (much like our Primary World) were once good and evil cannot create of its own accord, but can only pervert God's creation. It seems the point, with the Orcs, is that any goodness that was once there has been bred out after Ages of servitude to darkness and so they are the epitome of mortal evil. I think I mentioned this in my initial post but the argument for Tolkien's racism based on the evil Men being (mostly and arguably) non-white is moot because these Men are not evil in and of themselves. They were bought by the darkness and, in the end, returned to the light.

 

 
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