We have detected that cookies are not enabled on your browser. Please enable cookies to ensure the proper experience.
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 104
  1. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Forochel's Florida (Canada)
    Posts
    194

    Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddhawk View Post
    Aside from this obvious example, the translation of "Katûb" as book is further attested to by its use throughout Moria. There are several place names containing this word, such as "Mezel-katub" and "Katub-zahar". Each of these are the names of places that appear to be libraries or archives. Indeed, I believe the name "Katub-zahar" very nearly means "library". We know from the Dwarvish name of Nogrod, Tumunzahar (or "Hollowbold"), that "zahar" means "bold" or "building". Thus, "Katub-zahar" would appear to mean literally "Book-building" or more figuratively, "library".
    Just curious, where did you get the translation of zahar from? The only site I can find that mentions the meaning of Tmunzahar gives it as
    tûm “bold / delving” (1st decl., type B) (in Tumunzahar, q.v.)
    and
    *zahar “hollow” (adj.) (in Tumunzahar, q.v.)
    This of course would mean that Katub-zahar means Book-hollow or Hollow-book instead (or even Hollow of the book).
    Source: http://forodrim.org/daeron/md_khuzdul.html







    e.h.b
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a0000000a3c89/01001/signature.png]Eroin[/charsig]
    and the ever watchful warg, waiting from the shadows, fear the name of Bagulrat.

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ohio, where we never have any adventures or do anything unexpected
    Posts
    4,646

    Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth

    Quote Originally Posted by e_h_b View Post
    Just curious, where did you get the translation of zahar from? The only site I can find that mentions the meaning of Tmunzahar gives it as
    tûm “bold / delving” (1st decl., type B) (in Tumunzahar, q.v.)
    and
    *zahar “hollow” (adj.) (in Tumunzahar, q.v.)
    This of course would mean that Katub-zahar means Book-hollow or Hollow-book instead (or even Hollow of the book).
    Source: http://forodrim.org/daeron/md_khuzdul.html
    I checked several sources actually, but here are a few that verify it:

    http://folk.uib.no/hnohf/khuzder.doc
    15. 1a2a3: zahar 'bold, *building'

    http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Part...2/khuzdul.html
    Tumunzahar `Hollowbold', or Nogrod, a city of the Dwarves in the Blue Mountains, (S:91, 344, UT:389). It seems to have the elements tumun `hollow' (similar to Q. tumbu `hollow, swell') and zahar `bold, a building' (a noun form).

    http://www.realelvish.net/book_names.php#t
    Tumunzahar - Hollow Bold (Khuzdul)
    tumun - hollow
    zahar - bold



    Furthermore, we can make the connection from the following site:

    http://www.thetolkienwiki.org/wiki.cgi?Nogrod
    Hollowbold has an interesting etymology: it is the translation of nogrod, 'hollow dwelling' (early English bold, noun related to the verb build)



    This shows us that there is some connection between the words "bold" and "dwelling". In the Peter Jackson films, they seem to have used the word "Zahar" for the Khuzdul equivalent of a dwelling or house:

    http://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Chamb...ngerthas_Moria

    • "(The) house of Durin."

    (from Khuzdul: "Zahar Durinul".)


    If that's not enough to definitively settle the issue, keep in mind that there is a great deal of crossover between Tolkien's languages. Many of the words in his languages were derived from common roots. In The Etymologies found within The Lost Road and Other Writings, the following listing may be found:

    TUB- *tumbu deep valley, under or among hills: Q tumbo, N tum. Cf. Tumladen 'the level vale' [LAT], the vale of Gondolin. *tubnā deep: Q tumna lowlying , deep, low; N tofn, Ilk. tovon. *Utubnu name of Melko's vaults in the North: Q Utumno; N Udun; Ilk. Uduvon; Dan. Utum.
    Since a "hollow" is a type of valley, it would appear that the Khuzdul name of Tumunzahar ("Hollowbold") is etymologically linked to this elvish root. Indeed, the second source above mentions that Tumun is similar to the Quenya Tumbu. Thus, it is more than likely that Tumun is intended to refer to "Hollow", while Zahar refers to "Bold", "Building", and roughly "Dwelling" or "House".




    Anyways, I hope that helps.
    [COLOR=yellowgreen][B]"Pure creation is like a vacation."[/B][/COLOR]
    [INDENT]- Welby of Landroval[/INDENT]

  3. #28

    Talking Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth

    Wow, very concise work Reddhawk. Glad you got involved with this post.
    [B]Magnarr [/B] - Lvl 85 Champion
    Leader, United Races (Vilya server)
    Cofounder and Leader, Vilya Alliance coalition of kinships
    [url]www.UnitedRaces.net[/url] [url]www.VilyaAlliance.com[/url]

  4. #29
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Annúminas
    Posts
    2,920

    Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth

    Wow, that was pretty good, Reddhawk. Are you competing for Berephon's job or something?

  5. Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth

    Quote Originally Posted by AgamemnonV1 View Post
    Wow, that was pretty good, Reddhawk. Are you competing for Berephon's job or something?
    Berephron, much like the Istari, is forbidden to show his true power. Nobody can compete :-)
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0620500000009263b/01003/signature.png]Arasilion[/charsig]

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    3 Garden St, Dunberth, Bree
    Posts
    1,006

    Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth

    Very nicely done indeed! That deserves a /bow if anything ever did.

    Will you come by Elendilmir and teach me some Khuzdul?
    [center][b][color=gray]Dedoric[/color] || [color=royalblue]Rocso[/color][/b] of [url=http://guild-sanctuary.com/lotro]Sanctuary[/url]
    [size=1][[url=http://lotroplayers.com]LOTROPlayers[/url]]
    [[url=http://greycompanypodcast.wordpress.com]The Grey Company Podcast[/url]]
    [[url=http://masteroflore.wordpress.com]Master of Lore blog[/url]][/size]
    [/center]

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    4 Wending Way, Weedhallow, The Shire
    Posts
    1,881

    Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth

    The Globe of Arda...just blew my mind.

    I remember running past it and stopping to take a look at it because it was one of the coolest things I saw in Moria.

    I had no idea all that was written on it!

    Thanks so much for that.
    Do you remember the taste of [color=red]strawberries[/color]?

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ohio, where we never have any adventures or do anything unexpected
    Posts
    4,646

    Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth

    Quote Originally Posted by AgamemnonV1 View Post
    Wow, that was pretty good, Reddhawk. Are you competing for Berephon's job or something?
    Let's just say if he ever needed an assistant "lore-monkey", I'd be interested.
    [COLOR=yellowgreen][B]"Pure creation is like a vacation."[/B][/COLOR]
    [INDENT]- Welby of Landroval[/INDENT]

  9. #34

    Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth - Dark Delving

    Incredible translation of the world map. Sorry if this has already been posted, but I couldn't find it. Has anyone translated the Dark Delving Runes?

    The runes on the entrance stones, are the same as the ones on the light stones inside
    Inside

    Assuming this is written in Angerthas Moria,I believe that would translate to Azanturash.

    However, translating it to english is another matter, all I can find is that in Khuzdul "Azan that which makes dim?" (http://www.lotrplaza.com/dwarves/dic...ct_khz-eng.htm)

    This rune appears identical except that the runes are a mirror image? intentional or an accident?
    Last edited by Jduerksen; Mar 07 2009 at 09:57 AM.

  10. #35

    Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth- Dark Delving Floating Runes

    It appears to me that the floating Runes are just random sequences of the individual runes that are on the stones.

    For example

    and

  11. Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth

    "Azan that which makes dim?"
    Taking it from the context, I would guess it means "Light that which makes dim", in other words "bring light into the darkness". Just a guess.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0620500000009263b/01003/signature.png]Arasilion[/charsig]

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ohio, where we never have any adventures or do anything unexpected
    Posts
    4,646

    Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth

    Quote Originally Posted by Arasilion View Post
    Taking it from the context, I would guess it means "Light that which makes dim", in other words "bring light into the darkness". Just a guess.
    Actually, from what I've been able to find, "azan" itself means "dim" or "dark". The translation given above (Azanturash), should actually be either Azanturas or Azanturah, depending upon the value of the final rune. This final rune is typically an 's', but sometimes swaps meaning with another rune so that it acquires the 'h' sound. The meaning of Azan is attested to in the name Azanulbizar (Dimrill Dale). Alternatively, the name is said to mean "Vale of Dim Streams" and is composed of the elements azan (dim) - ûl (streams) - bizar (valley). I haven't yet found any basis for the word "Turas", although I'm willing to bet that it has a meaning similar to "Delving". My guess would be:


    Azanturas = Dark Delving
    Last edited by Reddhawk; Mar 07 2009 at 01:36 PM.
    [COLOR=yellowgreen][B]"Pure creation is like a vacation."[/B][/COLOR]
    [INDENT]- Welby of Landroval[/INDENT]

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Location
    Vancouver, Washington
    Posts
    39

    Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth

    This is a truly awesome work guys...Thanks so much.

    I so enjoy the depth of the "Tolkeinian" languages. Guess we are all thankful that Papa Tolkein took all that time to put them together...and the Devs devoted so much time and effort to make use of them. Yet another reason that LOTRO is so awesome.
    .
    Ninth-Laird (aka The Pendragon)
    Successor of the United Races of Vilya and proud member of the Vilya Alliance.

  14. #39

    Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth

    Here's a simple one that's been around since launch - approach the throne in Thorin's Hall - carved in the top are 7 runes. I translated them into

    th r a i n u l

    Thorin was the son of Thrain and we've seen the ul at the end of a name before on Balin's tomb, meaning "son-of"

    Simple but it also show's you the designers attention to detail since day 1.
    [FONT=Trebuchet MS]"You can't fight the Enemy with his own Ring without turning into an Enemy" - J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter # 81


    [/FONT]

  15. #40

    Talking Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth

    Nice catch there Nordi! Tusen takk
    [B]Magnarr [/B] - Lvl 85 Champion
    Leader, United Races (Vilya server)
    Cofounder and Leader, Vilya Alliance coalition of kinships
    [url]www.UnitedRaces.net[/url] [url]www.VilyaAlliance.com[/url]

  16. #41

    Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth

    Another very simple rune brought me to the crest of Weathertop For many of us, the Lone-Land quests revolving around that hill were finished ages ago. A few days ago (while re-reading the chapter Strider and the hobbits' confrontation with the Black Riders) I went up again to verify whether the markings were still visible on the stone if you no longer had the quest--and so they were: G III

    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a0000000d1bd0/signature.png]Muin[/charsig]

  17. Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth

    Quote Originally Posted by Ameliel View Post
    Another very simple rune brought me to the crest of Weathertop For many of us, the Lone-Land quests revolving around that hill were finished ages ago. A few days ago (while re-reading the chapter Strider and the hobbits' confrontation with the Black Riders) I went up again to verify whether the markings were still visible on the stone if you no longer had the quest--and so they were: G III

    I think I stumbled across that rune in beta, not really thinking it would be there. But sure enough, there it was right where it was supposed to. I think that was the first time I came across a "lore nugget" and it's probably what really got me hooked.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0620500000009263b/01003/signature.png]Arasilion[/charsig]

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Somewhere over the rainbow
    Posts
    7,563

    Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth

    Anyone remember that quest in the misty mountains where the dwarf sends you to put a sign up by helegrod? the sign has runes written on it. My graphics arent good enough to get a descent screenshot, but it would be cool if someone were to find out what the sign says...
    [center]"The rejection of grammatical correction is proof of the level of intelligence hinted at by your writing."

    [color=orange]Now please keep this discussion on topic or you may be reported for causing time mismanagement[/color]

    [color=gray]Llydia[color=blue] - 65 Rune-keeper |[/color]Dawnn [color=blue] - 65 Champion |[/color] Anthari[color=blue] - 65 Lore-master |[/color] Thisnameisavailable Ornot[color=blue] - 65 Guardian
    [/color] Firstaidkit[color=blue] - 65 Minstrel |[/color] Malaysia [color=blue] - 65 Waden |[/color] Kornur[color=blue] - 52 Hunter |[/color] Caly[color=blue] - 40 Burglar |[/color] Dharkan Rahl[color=blue] - 40 Captain[/color][/color][/center]

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ohio, where we never have any adventures or do anything unexpected
    Posts
    4,646

    Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth

    Quote Originally Posted by sir-rinthian View Post
    Anyone remember that quest in the misty mountains where the dwarf sends you to put a sign up by helegrod? the sign has runes written on it. My graphics arent good enough to get a descent screenshot, but it would be cool if someone were to find out what the sign says...
    Next time I'm up that way, I'll see if I can get a shot of it.


    Anyways, the other day as I was exploring the crafting instances, I noticed some new runes. This sign appears several times in Mekeb-Farak and Mekeb-Faham:




    As discussed in a previous post of mine, zahar means "bold" or "building". Within the lore, nâla is found with the placename Kibil-nâla, rendered into english as Silverlode. Since we know that kibil means "silver", it would seem obvious that nâla means "lode". However, there is this note on the Ardalambion site:
    -nâla: According to TI:175, the meaning of this word is not known, but if the Khuzdul name Kibil-nâla has the same meaning as Sindarin Celebrant, Silverlode, it may be assumed to mean "path, course, rivercourse or bed".


    This would mean that the building is identified as either Lodebold or as one of several other possibilities with no clear rendering into English (Rivercourse-building, Riverbed-building, Path-building, Course-building). None of these possibilities make any clear sense. Lodebold would seem to hold the most meaning, as it could refer to a building used for the storage of ore. However, considering that these (i.e. Mekeb-Faham and Mekab-Farak) are the scholar instances, even that doesn't seem to make sense. Indeed, the interior of these instances resemble a library more than a storage facility or anything that would be associated with mining or ore. One other possiblity that I have thought of is that the name is used figuratively. Perhaps, nâla has been used to refer to a "rivercourse" in a poetic allusion to the winding path through Durin's Way on which these instances are found. I suppose that's a bit of a stretch, but there doesn't seem to be any clear meaning behind this name without knowing exactly what the devs had in mind.
    [COLOR=yellowgreen][B]"Pure creation is like a vacation."[/B][/COLOR]
    [INDENT]- Welby of Landroval[/INDENT]

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ohio, where we never have any adventures or do anything unexpected
    Posts
    4,646

    Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth

    Here's another one that I meant to post earlier. This involves the runes on the selection ring:



    As you can see, the same set of runes appears twice within the rings.


    Here's my diagram of the runes:



    Unlike most of the runes in the game, these do not represent words in Khuzdul or Elvish. Rather, the selection circle contains English words encoded into runes. As you can see in the diagram, the translated sentence is: "The one that is chosen". The reason that the words "the" and "one" appear as "dhe" and "hwun" is that the Cirth are used to represent words phonetically, rather than literally. Thus, each rune represents a particular sound, rather than a specific letter.

    Through the following link, you can see that Tolkien used the same rendering for the word the (i.e. "dhe") in the Cirth that he placed on the title page of The Lord of the Rings.

    http://www.acondia.com/fonts/cirth/info/ex_lotr.htm
    [COLOR=yellowgreen][B]"Pure creation is like a vacation."[/B][/COLOR]
    [INDENT]- Welby of Landroval[/INDENT]

  21. #46

    Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddhawk View Post
    I found one on the back of a 2nd Age Hunter weapon. It oddly bears almost identical runes to the Book of Mazarbul.



    At least, that's what the top of the weapon looks like (you have to look upside down). It spells out Katub Maz.

    I'm a little more confused by the bottom runes, it appears as though it's some kind of mirrored copy of the top, but it's not exact. The second rune (reading left to right) is similar to the "A" rune, but the long side is on the wrong side. I mirrored it, it's almost the same as "Katub Maz" except for the last rune, which is S instead of Z.

  22. #47

    Thumbs up Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth

    Quote Originally Posted by Reddhawk View Post
    Here's another one that I meant to post earlier. This involves the runes on the selection ring:



    As you can see, the same set of runes appears twice within the rings.


    Here's my diagram of the runes:



    Unlike most of the runes in the game, these do not represent words in Khuzdul or Elvish. Rather, the selection circle contains English words encoded into runes. As you can see in the diagram, the translated sentence is: "The one that is chosen". The reason that the words "the" and "one" appear as "dhe" and "hwun" is that the Cirth are used to represent words phonetically, rather than literally. Thus, each rune represents a particular sound, rather than a specific letter.

    Through the following link, you can see that Tolkien used the same rendering for the word the (i.e. "dhe") in the Cirth that he placed on the title page of The Lord of the Rings.

    http://www.acondia.com/fonts/cirth/info/ex_lotr.htm
    Wow, another nice catch!
    [B]Magnarr [/B] - Lvl 85 Champion
    Leader, United Races (Vilya server)
    Cofounder and Leader, Vilya Alliance coalition of kinships
    [url]www.UnitedRaces.net[/url] [url]www.VilyaAlliance.com[/url]

  23. #48

    Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth

    Quote Originally Posted by Yaksha42 View Post
    I found one on the back of a 2nd Age Hunter weapon. It oddly bears almost identical runes to the Book of Mazarbul.



    At least, that's what the top of the weapon looks like (you have to look upside down). It spells out Katub Maz.

    I'm a little more confused by the bottom runes, it appears as though it's some kind of mirrored copy of the top, but it's not exact. The second rune (reading left to right) is similar to the "A" rune, but the long side is on the wrong side. I mirrored it, it's almost the same as "Katub Maz" except for the last rune, which is S instead of Z.
    Good one, Yaksha. That's a hard one to see.
    [B]Magnarr [/B] - Lvl 85 Champion
    Leader, United Races (Vilya server)
    Cofounder and Leader, Vilya Alliance coalition of kinships
    [url]www.UnitedRaces.net[/url] [url]www.VilyaAlliance.com[/url]

  24. #49

    Post Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth

    Oh! I got called on it. Sorry for misspelling Middle-earth with the capitol in the title.
    [B]Magnarr [/B] - Lvl 85 Champion
    Leader, United Races (Vilya server)
    Cofounder and Leader, Vilya Alliance coalition of kinships
    [url]www.UnitedRaces.net[/url] [url]www.VilyaAlliance.com[/url]

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Ohio, where we never have any adventures or do anything unexpected
    Posts
    4,646

    Re: Runes thoughout Middle-Earth

    Quote Originally Posted by Magnarr View Post
    Oh! I got called on it. Sorry for misspelling Middle-earth with the capitol in the title.
    Heh. You'd be surprised (actually you probably wouldn't) how many times this happens. Even the DVD case for The Hobbit cartoon film makes this mistake. But hey, everyone's a critic, right?

    The important thing is that it's provided an excuse for bumping this wonderful thread. Now, let's keep the runes coming.
    [COLOR=yellowgreen][B]"Pure creation is like a vacation."[/B][/COLOR]
    [INDENT]- Welby of Landroval[/INDENT]

 

 
Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

This form's session has expired. You need to reload the page.

Reload