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  1. #1
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
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    Aug 2008
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    Exclamation Kinships: Minimum Requirements and AWOL Leaders

    There’s been a bit of confusion over the changes to Kinships since the release of Mines of Moria™. So here is the definitive information all Kinship Leaders or potential leaders need to know.

    I am being told my Kinship will disband in 5 days!

    All Kinships, both old and new, are required to maintain a minimum membership of 8 characters. If your membership drops below 8 characters at any point you will receive a warning that your kinship will be disbanded within 5 days. You will continue to see this warning for the full five days regardless of the number of members. As long as you have 8 characters at the end of the 5 days, your kinship will not be disbanded.

    Note: Characters not accounts. Because a character must be online to be invited to a Kinship, you will need at least two accounts to invite the minimum required number of characters.



    When will my Kinship earn the next rank? What do we get for it?

    Rank 1 - immediate - Kinship Chat - Upto 1000 characters
    Rank 2 - 1 day (24h) - Message of the Day - Upto 1000 characters
    Rank 3 - 4 days - Kinship-only Titles - Upto 1000 characters
    Rank 4 - 10 days - Officer Chat - Upto 1000 characters
    Rank 5 - 30 days - Kinship-only Mail - Upto 1000 characters
    Rank 6 - 60 days - Kinship-only Auctions - Upto 1000 characters
    Rank 7 - 90 days - Kinship Housing - Upto 1200 characters
    Rank 8 - 180 days – Upto 1300 characters
    Rank 9 - 270 days – Upto 1400 characters
    Rank 10 - 360 days – Upto 1500 characters


    What if my leader went AWOL?

    If the leader does not log in for more than 35 days or cancels his or her account, the successor receives a mail indicating the availability of the Usurp option. The successor can click the Usurp button in the Kinship Panel to become leader.

    If the successor does not usurp leadership within 10 days, all officers of the kinship receive a mail informing them that any officer can usurp leadership.

    If no officer usurps leadership within 20 days, all members of the kinship receive a mail informing them that any member can usurp leadership.

    If a kinship goes 65 days without a new leader, the kinship will automatically disband.

    Please note that the In-Game Support Team will not resolve issues regarding the transfer of ownership for a kinship or the automatic disbanding of a leaderless kinship. It is the responsibility of the kinship members to ensure that a successor has been chosen.



    For everything else you could ever possibly want to know about Kinships, you should check out Cherubina's Guide to Kinships. It's worth a read!
    Last edited by Sapience; Mar 29 2011 at 08:58 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    3,607

    Re: Kinships: Minimum Requirements and AWOL Leaders

    I'm curious, book 8 notes seem to disagree with the above info.

    http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Relea...cial.2FKinship

    Can someone clairify?

    "Kinship charters will now correctly indicate that at least 8 members must be registered, or the kinship will be disbanded in 24 hours."

    Specifically , does members mean characters or accounts?
    Last edited by Yaaraer; Jun 04 2009 at 09:33 PM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0620500000000c465/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  3. #3
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
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    Re: Kinships: Minimum Requirements and AWOL Leaders

    Characters.

    The patch note refers to the fact that the charters are currently wrong. Kinships currently require 8 characters or they will be disbanded however the characters incorrectly say 6.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    3,607

    Re: Kinships: Minimum Requirements and AWOL Leaders

    Thank you!
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0620500000000c465/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Moscow, ID, USA
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    342

    Re: Kinships: Minimum Requirements and AWOL Leaders

    Our kinship (The Armoury) was recently disbanded due to these erroneous messages.

    We lost a member lowering our members down to 7. On the 8th we received a message saying we had 5 days to get the membership up to 8 or the kin would be disbanded. Came back on the 10th hoping to recruit someone but found the kin was disbanded and our house gone.

    This is bug that needs corrected immediately. If we went by the kinship charter, we would have been fine because we had more than 6 members. If we went by the warning message we should have been fine because we'd have had 5 days to get our membership up.

    As it was, Turbine provided misinformation in both cases resulting in the loss of our kinhouse, and more valuable, the time we invested as a kin getting to that point.

    Please look into this and reform our kin. Or if its more convenient we can reform and then you can reinstate our kinhouse. Please don't ignore us and our bugreports as you have the last week.
    Last edited by calatan; Jun 20 2009 at 03:06 PM.
    [url=http://thehogsofdestiny.com][center][color=green]HOGS KIN SITE[/color][/url][charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0220400000007ead1/01000/signature.png]Calatan[/charsig][/center]

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
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    5

    Re: Kinships: Minimum Requirements and AWOL Leaders

    We have also been getting erroneous disbanding messages. We have taken over a kinship that everyone went AWOL except one guy we know.

    It dipped below the required 8 members overnight, but now, even after adding characters and now having a roster of 15 characters, I am still getting notifications every time I login telling me we are going to be disbanded.

    Can someone take a look at this please?

    Kinship is The Legion of the West
    Kinship Leader - Kommoo
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/042080000001022d9/01008/signature.png]Nucair[/charsig]

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    Quebec City
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    499

    Re: Kinships: Minimum Requirements and AWOL Leaders

    I think, every day count as a full day, and it disband at the start of the fifth day. you do not have full 5 days. you have a minimum of 3 days and 1 seconds.

    so if you lost your member on the 6th at 11h pm, and you only noticed on the 7th, that make 2 days already.

    8th = 3
    9th = 4
    10th = 5 = disband.
    .
    santo - lvl 65 minstrel
    Rianel - lvl 65 captain

  8. #8
    Sapience is offline Former Community Manager & Harbinger of Soon
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    Re: Kinships: Minimum Requirements and AWOL Leaders

    If your Kinship drops below 8 members, you will see the notice for the full 5 days. Regardless of whether or not your kin has gone back above 8 members.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
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    Moscow, ID, USA
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    342

    Re: Kinships: Minimum Requirements and AWOL Leaders

    Bah, maybe since the last update. We got the warning for 2-3 days and the kin disbanded. Lost the member on the 8th, on the 10th our kin was gone, and no response to multiple bug reports filed by myself and various kin members.
    [url=http://thehogsofdestiny.com][center][color=green]HOGS KIN SITE[/color][/url][charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0220400000007ead1/01000/signature.png]Calatan[/charsig][/center]

  10. #10

    Re: Kinships: Minimum Requirements and AWOL Leaders

    ok I am a bit confused here. Being a leader of a small kinship I would like some clarification.

    Is the warning period 24 hours or 5 days?

    If in that time I bring the kinship population to or above the requirements will the kin still disband?
    [LEFT][URL]http://lorebook.lotro.com/wiki/Tinkers_Guide[/URL]
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a00000010a85c/01005/signature.png]Tavlin[/charsig]
    Davlin LvL 60 Hunter - Founder of The Hammer and Quill- Landroval
    [URL]http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=238849[/URL][/LEFT]

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Iowa
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    175

    Re: Kinships: Minimum Requirements and AWOL Leaders

    With the additional 2 character slots with mirkwood has the minimum now raised to 10? Just wondering because I am thinking of starting a kin and need to know how many members I need so it wont disban
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0820700000010e617/01008/signature.png]undefined[/charsig]

    The Darkhorse will rise.

  12. #12

    Re: Kinships: Minimum Requirements and AWOL Leaders

    Quote Originally Posted by Zalabar2000 View Post
    With the additional 2 character slots with mirkwood has the minimum now raised to 10? Just wondering because I am thinking of starting a kin and need to know how many members I need so it wont disban
    I'm pretty sure it's still eight and if you're dangerously close to the minimum don't forget that two players with a bunch of alts can keep a kinship going indefinitely.
    "You can't fight the Enemy with his own Ring without turning into an Enemy" - J.R.R. Tolkien, Letter # 81



  13. #13

    Re: Kinships: Minimum Requirements and AWOL Leaders

    I was an officer in a recently formed kinship. We recruited hard and get quite a few members. Only 1 page but you had to scroll down to read them all. We kept getting the 5 day warning then all the sudden very early this morning when I logged on it said that my kinship had been disbanded. I was no longer in a kinship.

    We had well over the minimum number of members but it got disbanded anyway. I don't understand what happened. We had some really great members and now they are gone. There was a mistake/bug on server side that caused the disbanding of our kinship and the loss of our wonderful members.
    Last edited by Sardonic; May 02 2010 at 04:12 AM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    1,211

    Re: Kinships: Minimum Requirements and AWOL Leaders

    Here's an odd one. The Oathbreakers kinship has had an AWOL leader for 79 days. I don't know if the Successor ever got an email, but I know I never got one as an officer. Yet, well beyond the listed time for auto disbanding, the kin is still in existance. Weird.

    Here's a screenie of the social window with the leader's 79 day absence...


    I'm not complaining. And as soon as I am done with this post I will be Usurping lead until our fearless leader can decide what to do (we may just disband anyway since we served our purpose). Just thought it was worth mentioning.
    Last edited by Garan; May 03 2010 at 05:03 PM.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    12

    Re: Kinships: Minimum Requirements and AWOL Leaders

    The kinship I am in had a leader that was taking a temporary leave, today a member ,that no one that still plays knew, took leadership and disbanded the kinship. I am an officer and never got an email giving me the option to usurp leadership, I know the other officers and none of the officers received the email. None of the none officer members got an email either. We have reformed but lost our kinship house and trophies, is there a way to get this fixed? It's not so much upsetting to have the kinship disbanded, but it is upsetting to have it done so when the game system in place didn't work.

    Also it seems silly that anyone can disband a kinship the second he becomes leader, I am not trying to get power taken from the leader but it seems like somekind of check and balance should be in place for an action like disbanding.
    Last edited by Snaafu; May 24 2010 at 10:56 PM.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0520a000000066cd7/01000/signature.png]Sildir[/charsig]

  16. #16

    Re: Kinships: Minimum Requirements and AWOL Leaders

    We also got no mails concerning needing to usurp. Neither the officers first, or later the non-officers. It would be a big help also if the time left would be shown once the countdown for needing to usurp started...
    Happy, Happy, Joy, Joy

  17. #17

    Re: Kinships: Minimum Requirements and AWOL Leaders

    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    If a kinship goes 65 days without a new leader, the kinship will automatically disband.
    Anyone know if this rule still applies?

  18. #18

    Thumbs up Re: Kinships: Minimum Requirements and AWOL Leaders

    IT IS 30 DAYS .

    If a kinship goes 65 days without a new leader, the kinship will automatically disband.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Georgia
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    77

    Question Re: Kinships: Minimum Requirements and AWOL Leaders

    Ok I have a question, me and my husband started a kinship of our own about 2 yrs ago. At the time, we had our main toons in another kin (that wasnt doing so well) but we started our own kinship with our next in line toons. Since then our mains have quit that other kinship due to no one ever being on anymore. As it is...one of my husbands toons is the founder of our kin and I am his successor. Is there a way he can transfer the leadership to his main toon now that he is available and I can change my toon from being successor to my main toon? If he does this will it give him the founder title as it is now? My husband was just wondering because he had thought he read somewhere that stated you needed to be careful about transfering leadership because even though they will become the leader the title founder or whatever will forever be gone. Could you please clarify this for me?

    As a side question...how come the successor doesnt have a special title other than officer even though they are the next rank in line? We have a mixed kinship and my husband is the founder and it has me with the leader emblem beside my name but it only reads Officer when you hover over it and if you click to show your kinship in rank order the leader or successor isnt directly below the founder.

    Thanks for all the work you do on these forums!! Its a GREAT help

    Windariel

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1

    Re: Kinships: Minimum Requirements and AWOL Leaders

    Just jotting down a record for posterity. Our experience has confirmed that officers of a kinship can usurp after 45 days to the second of Leader inactivity.

    We had a Successor who up and left the kinship around the 25 or 30-day mark if I remember. The Leader never came back and the officers agreed that if he didn't by the rumored 45-day mark, we would usurp to provide stable leadership. We checked his "Last time online" from having him added on our buddy list, and the exact second he last logged off, 45 days later, one of our officers logged out of his toon, logged back in with the same toon, and the "Usurp" button had appeared. He clicked and was made Leader, and the former leader was auto-demoted to Officer. The New Leader was then able to appoint a Successor. He then resigned his post, self-demoting to Officer, which made the Successor automatically the Newest Leader.

    So officers looking to usurp:
    (1) Wait till leader has been inactive for 45 days to the exact second.
    (2) Log out and log back in to ensure a reset of the kinship info updater.
    (3) Click the Usurp button that has appeared.
    (4) Profit.

  21. #21
    Join Date
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    AW: Kinships: Minimum Requirements and AWOL Leaders

    Quote Originally Posted by sthorwall View Post
    Just jotting down a record for posterity. Our experience has confirmed that officers of a kinship can usurp after 45 days to the second of Leader inactivity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sapience View Post
    What if my leader went AWOL?

    If the leader does not log in for more than 35 days or cancels his or her account, the successor receives a mail indicating the availability of the Usurp option. The successor can click the Usurp button in the Kinship Panel to become leader.

    If the successor does not usurp leadership within 10 days, all officers of the kinship receive a mail informing them that any officer can usurp leadership.

    If no officer usurps leadership within 20 days, all members of the kinship receive a mail informing them that any member can usurp leadership.
    After reading this, i am still confused.
    What does "within 20 days" mean (for officers)? Starting at day 35 or starting after the 10 days, the successor can usurp?

    Is the following correct?
    day 1 - 34: nothing happens
    day 35 - 44: successor can usurp
    day 45 - 54: successor and officers can usurp
    day 55 - 64: all member can usurp
    day 65: kinship will disband

    And what about the mail? No one in our kin received mail.
    Wer Hilfe will, muss Informationen liefern.
    >> Lotro World transfer status <<

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    12,894

    Re: Kinships: Minimum Requirements and AWOL Leaders

    Haven't been in game in a While, as the pix shows. And my personal kin (i.e. me and myself) is still alive, surprisingly enough. Kin leader has not been on for 190 days; successor for 240. Any e-mail successor, or any officers got has long since gone bye bye.

    Checking my second kinship in a different server, and results were the same (with about the same amount of days passed)


    [COLOR=red][/COLOR]Retired.

  23. #23

    Re: Kinships: Minimum Requirements and AWOL Leaders

    I hate to poke a dead thread, but it seems marginally better to post this here than make a new thread. Especially since it's a post in this thread I need clarification on:

    "If your Kinship drops below 8 members, you will see the notice for the full 5 days. Regardless of whether or not your kin has gone back above 8 members."

    Does it count the leader as one of the eight (they're technically a member, too!)? I got this message, because the kinship I created for a circle of friends took a bit of time getting started (indeed, I am forced to admit I needed to bring in a couple alts to round out the minimum - it's just us friends, not one of them big snazzy public kins), and I really need to know, since apparently I'll keep getting this warning, unsure if I'm safe or not until either the warning vanishes... or the kinship does.

  24. #24
    same thing as above, I felt it prudent to post in this thread rather than start another

    I recently had a problem with my kin where someone took lead away from me while I was gone on Military Duty and was unable to login.... sadly the kin had mostly died and my wife stopped playing an logging it, which allowed this person to usurp. Now it's been 45 days since he's logged in, the only problem is he named one officer and no successor, it's been 11 days since the officer logged in and he demoted everyone else.

    it appears as if these kins aren't auto disbanding, which is nice seeing as I started my kin in 2007 and have a kin house with hundreds of items worth of gold. I want to know if at 65 days I'll get mail to usurp. I hate the idea of being given one day before possible disbanding.

    thanks for any help... this system should really be worked on
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/03202000000005053/01006/signature.png]Indoriel[/charsig]

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Germany
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    2,036
    Don't rely on the mail.

    Check the kinship page each day and look for the usurp button.
    Wer Hilfe will, muss Informationen liefern.
    >> Lotro World transfer status <<

 

 
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