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  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Regarding Creep Transfers

    Well, clearly the warg is out of the bag on creep transfers.

    You guys have been asking us for months for the ability to transfer your creeps to other servers, but that tech was not built into the game and we haven't been able to offer it as a service. The tech is there now, but it hasn't been thoroughly tested and we still don't know what all of the ramifications are, not just on your characters but also the halo effect it can have on other internal projects.

    Unfortunately a few transfers happened before we were ready to roll it out. We just can't do any more transfers until we're done working on the tech and have tested it. It IS being worked on - we've heard you guys, we know you want it! - but for now, we can't in good conscience continue to offer it as a service when it hasn't passed QA and could potentially bork your characters down the line. Until we know what all of the edge cases are and how we address them, we won't be offering this as a service.

    We do know that, for instance, if you don't have a freep on the server you transfer to, you have to level a character to 10. You also lose all of your destiny points. Those are fairly minor. QA is looking at what else it could cause, either on the character, the servers, or our databases. This is a much lower priority than Book 14 and Moria, so we don't have an ETA on when testing/development on creep transfers will be complete; just know that it's on the radar and will probably happen at some point. This is something we just didn't want to announce and talk about until we knew for sure we'd actually be able to do it.

    Thanks for your patience in the meantime!
    Last edited by Patience; Jul 04 2008 at 04:34 PM.
    [B][COLOR=DarkOrchid]“Behold the Chinchillas! They ride to war!”[/COLOR][/B]

  2. #2
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    Apr 2007
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    864

    Re: Regarding Creep Transfers

    Well thanks for the update. I hope it gets going sooner than later.
    Melnordan-Warden,Melainel-Hunter,Mellarain-Loremaster,Zoltrix-Guardian,Xabbu-Minstrel,Melraindor-Runekeeper
    Pie anyone?

  3. #3

    Re: Regarding Creep Transfers

    Thanks Patience! Will there be a big announcement when it' ready to go live for real, or are people just going to have to keep trying until it works again?
    [CENTER][SIZE=1][B][I][COLOR=YellowGreen][U][charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/042080000000028da/01004/signature.png]undefined[/charsig][/U][/COLOR][/I][/B][/SIZE]
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  4. #4

    Re: Regarding Creep Transfers

    Thanks for your response.
    Unfortunately this whole experience left a bad taste in my mouth which lead me to cancel my account.
    I don't appreciate being lied to, ignored and censored by your customer service.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    626

    Re: Regarding Creep Transfers

    Quote Originally Posted by sebyyc View Post
    Thanks for your response.
    Unfortunately this whole experience left a bad taste in my mouth which lead me to cancel my account.
    I don't appreciate being lied to, ignored and censored by your customer service.
    I don't like the answer either. This is only going to fuel the conspiracy theories that some players are getting preferential treatment from certain developers. It's happened in other games, most famously in Eve-Online. It would be a shame if it is happening here.

  6. #6

    Re: Regarding Creep Transfers

    Thank you Patience for clearing things up. Sad to say though because of this some friends are now split up. Also would it have been so terrible for the "customer service" people to have been more cordial and sympathetic to those of us that were questioning. Would it have been so difficult to at least send a response to emails that at least would have asked us to be patient instead of ignoring them? A polite response letting people know an answer would be forthcoming would have been appropriate and ceratainly much nicer than hanging up on people. I know you try very hard to work for the benefit of the players in this game and we appreciate it. Perhaps you can let someone know that the "customer service" office staff needs to work on their people skills.
    [FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=royalblue][I]Karethe - Loremaster 50 - Vilya [/I][/COLOR][/FONT]
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    [I][FONT=Comic Sans MS][COLOR=red]Brindlepaw - Warg Rank 8 - retired[/COLOR][/FONT][/I]
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  7. #7
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    Re: Regarding Creep Transfers

    Thanks for updating us.
    R.I.P. Big E

  8. #8
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    Re: Regarding Creep Transfers

    Quote Originally Posted by Kareth View Post
    Thank you Patience for clearing things up. Sad to say though because of this some friends are now split up. Also would it have been so terrible for the "customer service" people to have been more cordial and sympathetic to those of us that were questioning.
    I'm sorry that communications were so borked. I think we were all caught by surprise because the creep transfers were supposed to be hush-hush until we knew we could do it and QA had signed off. So there were wires crossed all over the place, especially in the last couple of days since the "news broke" right before the holiday weekend (Turbine's closed today actually).

    I'm also sorry about your group being split. We'll try to get this all finished so you can roll the 'moors again sooner rather than later!
    [B][COLOR=DarkOrchid]“Behold the Chinchillas! They ride to war!”[/COLOR][/B]

  9. #9
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    May 2007
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    179

    Re: Regarding Creep Transfers

    So in the mean time we have to remain split for who knows how long, a month? Two months? No I am sorry that is not good enough. After I sent you a letter for the reason we needed the transfer we got a one sentence response and then had customer care hang up on my members and tell them they didn't care if we canceled our subscriptions. So now that my 40 members are fractured (the other 20 in AOC) on different servers because of this we are supposed to wait because someone on Turbine's end screwed up and let these transfers occur? I know this post will get deleted but I want YOU Patience out of all the people to read this first even though it was not your fault to begin with. You tell Turbine how we feel; you let them know that a lot of people today will be canceling their subscriptions to LOTR. Just be happy I am telling my 60+ tribe mates (total figures) not to post bad reviews on other web sites and drag this matter out to other Kins/tribe websites to make a huge PR/marketing nightmare because unlike some other people who still continue to run around and not get banned in game or on the forums for blatantly disregarding the Code of Conduct in the EULA we are not vindictive.

    When someone complains about harassment it is Turbine's job to protect the customer and if they cannot then in my opinion you are not holding up to your side of the agreement remember that contract we sign before installing the game is a two way street. I am sorry if I am ranting it's just frustration and this entire process considering it’s been over a month now since all this occurred. Anyway thank you for your time Patience I hope things work out for you at Turbine because I know you are not to blame for this fiasco.
    Darkrage
    Odarion

  10. #10
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    Mar 2007
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    2,482

    Re: Regarding Creep Transfers

    Thank you for the update, Patience. In the mean time, before such things are approved, is there going to be any looking into what those transfers would do to the balance of Ettenmoors players - freep/creep. My biggest fear is that we are going to get a huge influx of new creep players, and then action will either dry up as freeps would be avoiding the area, or all of vet creeps will play their freeps exclusively because things get so out of balance.
    [center]Elendilmir - Rimsilval[/center]
    [color=green][center]Arness Hunter; Ashuri, Champ, Rozie LM, Velan Minstrel; Kynra Captain; Ryssa RK;[/color][/center]

  11. #11
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    May 2007
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    Re: Regarding Creep Transfers

    You guys need to realize something. There is NO way Turbine can enforce numbers on creep or freep side unless they code the moors with some sort of player cap because it is the nature of the way the moors was set up. I don't see you guys complaining about what would occur if 20 freeps transfer over and PVP exclusively it has happened before on other servers. We have done it ourselves as freeps on other servers too. So why should it be different for creeps. If you want balance the only way that will work is if the server's players themselves find the solution to that problem. You can't just isolate one group and discriminate them from transferring while letting the other side be able to do so.
    Darkrage
    Odarion

  12. #12
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    Re: Regarding Creep Transfers

    Quote Originally Posted by RhinoRage View Post
    You guys need to realize something. There is NO way Turbine can enforce numbers on creep or freep side unless they code the moors with some sort of player cap because it is the nature of the way the moors was set up. I don't see you guys complaining about what would occur if 20 freeps transfer over and PVP exclusively it has happened before on other servers. We have done it ourselves as freeps on other servers too. So why should it be different for creeps. If you want balance the only way that will work is if the server's players themselves find the solution to that problem. You can't just isolate one group and discriminate them from transferring while letting the other side be able to do so.
    Great post.

    Each server's conditions are different. On some, Freeps have the advantage. On others, it's the reverse.

    On Landroval, we've had players switch sides, temporarily or indefinitely, to help balance out the Moors.
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  13. #13
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    Re: Regarding Creep Transfers

    Quote Originally Posted by RhinoRage View Post
    When someone complains about harassment it is Turbine's job to protect the customer and if they cannot then in my opinion you are not holding up to your side of the agreement remember that contract we sign before installing the game is a two way street.
    and what about the other side of the fence, where at least two of the new servers you and your tribe have tried out have complained about the disruptive attitude, the stirring up of problems, and in some cases, the outright griefing brought on by your members as soon as they arrived on that new server? that, too, needs to be addressed. could it be possible that the fault doesn't entirely lie with others and the universe writ large?
    Last edited by john_anthony; Jul 04 2008 at 07:20 PM.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    453

    Re: Regarding Creep Transfers

    Quote Originally Posted by john_anthony View Post
    and what about the other side of the fence, where at least two of the new servers you and your tribe have tried out have complained about the disruptive attitude, the stirring up of problems, and in some cases, the outright griefing brought on by your members as soon as they arrived on that new server? that, too, needs to be addressed. could it be possible that the fault doesn't entirely lie with others and the universe writ large?
    Wow, you beat me to it.

  15. #15

    Re: Regarding Creep Transfers

    Quote Originally Posted by john_anthony View Post
    and what about the other side of the fence, where at least two of the new servers you and your tribe have tried out have complained about the disruptive attitude, the stirring up of problems, and in some cases, the outright griefing brought on by your members as soon as they arrived on that new server? that, too, needs to be addressed. could it be possible that the fault doesn't entirely lie with others and the universe writ large?
    Quote Originally Posted by LakeGirl View Post
    Wow, you beat me to it.
    It's strange you say this because even though I am not in the Tribe that you are referring to I have accompanied them on some of their trips. Before even joining in the fight I was told to keep a low profile, don't get involved in any OOC drama and respect the guys I was fighting alongside. These are the standard rules for the tribe you are talking about both in the game and out.
    [charsig=http://lotrosigs.level3.turbine.com/0b20c01000007005b/signature.png]Motherlovebone[/charsig]

  16. #16
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    Re: Regarding Creep Transfers

    Quote Originally Posted by john_anthony View Post
    and what about the other side of the fence, where at least two of the new servers you and your tribe have tried out have complained about the disruptive attitude, the stirring up of problems, and in some cases, the outright griefing brought on by your members as soon as they arrived on that new server? that, too, needs to be addressed. could it be possible that the fault doesn't entirely lie with others and the universe writ large?

    There was no problem at all only the minority who felt threatened by our presence wanted to start the fight there for whatever reason is where the problem was and still is. We were welcomed with open arms on E by the majority of people. We kept quiet, did not tell anyone what to do we just stuck to ourselves as to not cause any problems. I even went as far as telling ALL my members to stay out of OOC and the forums so as not to cause problems. You name one person from my tribe that caused any problem in E because while I was there no one said anything. If you are thinking of Vapor he is not in my tribe nor has ever been in it and he does not speak for us. If one or two people from other servers come to your server to cause problems don't blame the majority of those transferring to it as a wide spread problem. Learn your facts first before you decide to generalize and group us up together in one lump sum as a 'problem' rather than weeding out the minor few vocal people who want to stir things up and cause drama. I await to hear from you who it was that caused you problems that was in my tribe because I dare say you won't find one person that has and if he/she did do it I will dismiss them from the tribe end of story.
    Last edited by RhinoRage; Jul 04 2008 at 08:27 PM.
    Darkrage
    Odarion

  17. #17
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    Re: Regarding Creep Transfers

    Quote Originally Posted by Arness View Post
    Thank you for the update, Patience. In the mean time, before such things are approved, is there going to be any looking into what those transfers would do to the balance of Ettenmoors players - freep/creep. My biggest fear is that we are going to get a huge influx of new creep players, and then action will either dry up as freeps would be avoiding the area, or all of vet creeps will play their freeps exclusively because things get so out of balance.
    This is a very real concern of ours. We were just discussing this matter the other day. As of right now things are still in the discussion stage, but it is something that is on our collective radars.

  18. #18
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    Re: Regarding Creep Transfers

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgorth View Post
    It's strange you say this because even though I am not in the Tribe that you are referring to I have accompanied them on some of their trips. Before even joining in the fight I was told to keep a low profile, don't get involved in any OOC drama and respect the guys I was fighting alongside. These are the standard rules for the tribe you are talking about both in the game and out.
    i don't want to get into it, since this is a thread on another topic and these guys ended up on a different server from mine (whew ). i'll just say i truly hope what you say is the case -- or at least will be in the future. all of us would be very happy in that situation.

    however, i'd point to posts re these folks' presence on elendilmir and arkenstone in which there seems to be some quite serious disturbance going on with these guys at the eye of the storm. i'm just saying, if i were a scientist and i saw A + arkenstone = problem; A + elendilmir = problem; A + vilya = problem; A + forums = problem (as evidenced by those threads in which they're most active being moderated and closed); then he'd really start to wonder about which is the independent variable and which is the dependent one, which is the cause and which is the effect......

    and in terms of this thread, there seems to be some sort of complaint from these folks that, because they a few of them were able to somehow circumvent the system and get special treatment that allowed server transfer before it was available to everyone else, the rest of them should also be afforded similar treatment.

    i'm glad Patience has set the record straight, i'm glad turbine is working on this possibility, and i'm even more glad that they're treading carefully -- working on all the edge cases that could ripple through the system and cause potential game breaking bugs, as well as thinking through the issues of server population and balance as Frelorn has indicated. all good things. i just take a little exception to certain folks, who have already been given special treatment and have at least allegedly caused issues in-game on multiple servers, coming in here and berating Patience about this issue....

  19. #19
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    Re: Regarding Creep Transfers

    Quote Originally Posted by john_anthony View Post
    i don't want to get into it, since this is a thread on another topic and these guys ended up on a different server from mine (whew ). i'll just say i truly hope what you say is the case -- or at least will be in the future. all of us would be very happy in that situation.

    however, i'd point to posts re these folks' presence on elendilmir and arkenstone in which there seems to be some quite serious disturbance going on with these guys at the eye of the storm. i'm just saying, if i were a scientist and i saw A + arkenstone = problem; A + elendilmir = problem; A + vilya = problem; A + forums = problem (as evidenced by those threads in which they're most active being moderated and closed); then he'd really start to wonder about which is the independent variable and which is the dependent one, which is the cause and which is the effect......

    and in terms of this thread, there seems to be some sort of complaint from these folks that, because they a few of them were able to somehow circumvent the system and get special treatment that allowed server transfer before it was available to everyone else, the rest of them should also be afforded similar treatment.

    i'm glad Patience has set the record straight, i'm glad turbine is working on this possibility, and i'm even more glad that they're treading carefully -- working on all the edge cases that could ripple through the system and cause potential game breaking bugs, as well as thinking through the issues of server population and balance as Frelorn has indicated. all good things. i just take a little exception to certain folks, who have already been given special treatment and have at least allegedly caused issues in-game on multiple servers, coming in here and berating Patience about this issue....

    First of all click on that Arkenstone thread and start reading who caused the drama first. Yeah that is right YOU guys are causing drama because you feel threatened by our presence because you feel it will tip the balance. When we were on Arkenstone for 1 hour we did not cause any problems whatsoever and you guys asked us to leave we did. So tell me why is it you keep coming here saying we are the ones to blame and cause problems on your server when we respected your wish and moved on to a different server explain that to me?

    You don't even know what happened on Elendilmir again you are generalizing everything and pointing fingers. First of all there were other people from different servers and tribes who went onto that server and started causing problems. It was a coincidence that we arrived at around the same time, so they saw new people and assumed our tribe was the people causing problems in OOC and their vent because of all the new names. There was no special treatment given to us. In that Elendilmir highlight you posted they were talking about Vapor who wasn't even in our tribe. Also read the post above where Turbine hung up on us and ignored our letters of complaint. We were never given special treatment if you think that is special treatment I don't know what to say. You guys saw green creeps on your server and saw that we knew our stuff and were good at it and that is the problem in your eyes it nothing to do with griefing . We were there for 1 hour and you make it seem we caused so much trouble.

    As for Vilya that is a completely different story, let’s just say when you are always wining people take things personally and go way past the game to cause problems for us which it seems you yourself enjoy doing. This thread is about monster player transfer and not about our tribe. No one bashed you guys on your server click on those posts you quoted and read them first before you spew falsehoods.
    Last edited by RhinoRage; Jul 04 2008 at 09:21 PM.
    Darkrage
    Odarion

  20. #20
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    Re: Regarding Creep Transfers

    Quote Originally Posted by john_anthony View Post
    i'm just saying, if i were a scientist and i saw A + arkenstone = problem; A + elendilmir = problem; A + vilya = problem; A + forums = problem (as evidenced by those threads in which they're most active being moderated and closed); then he'd really start to wonder about which is the independent variable and which is the dependent one, which is the cause and which is the effect......
    If you were a real scientist you would know your data could not determine cause and effect -- only correlation at best. But hey it sounded good

    In regards to the low profile I can say absolutely so. We were asked in E's public vent to push on two raids of freeps defending TR. I thought it was funny and as we ran to dive in with 18 r2 or lower I wrote in OCC: Go Greenie Power!

    That simple and innocent comment got me in trouble with the leader (and rightfully so) Trust me, we have tried our best. So make of it what you will, but please if you weren't there I encourage you to try and not make judgments till you actually empirically see the data (i.e., were there and while at it talk to any of us and get to know us). And if you at all think forum drama is a good source of data, please just disregard anything I or anyone else says and go about in your blissful little bubble...

    Just my two overly student loaned two cents
    The Road goes ever on and on
    Down from the door where it began.
    Now far ahead the Road has gone,
    And I must follow, if I can...


  21. #21
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    Re: Regarding Creep Transfers

    Quote Originally Posted by Frelorn View Post
    This is a very real concern of ours. We were just discussing this matter the other day. As of right now things are still in the discussion stage, but it is something that is on our collective radars.
    If you are truly concerned her is what you do. make the Moores an instanced based event, put a cap on the numberes of Freeps and Creeps on each side(say 50 -75 per side), and merge ALL the servers. That way there will always be space for people who want to play. you can control the lag(I have had 6 and 7 second delays on instant cast skills and 15 seconds wait time after pushing the retreat button) an you won't have to worry about transfers cause everyone will be on the same server. Will it take some work? Yes. Will it take some time? Yes. Will it improve Moster play? Hell Yeah.

    Think on it!

    P.S. Freep transfers have been killing balance all the way along so whats the big diff?
    Melnordan-Warden,Melainel-Hunter,Mellarain-Loremaster,Zoltrix-Guardian,Xabbu-Minstrel,Melraindor-Runekeeper
    Pie anyone?

  22. #22

    Re: Regarding Creep Transfers

    Quote Originally Posted by Frelorn View Post
    This is a very real concern of ours. We were just discussing this matter the other day. As of right now things are still in the discussion stage, but it is something that is on our collective radars.
    I protest this stance really. If freeps are allowed to disrupt the balance by transferring then creeps should have that same right. There was never any complaints issued before and taken seriously when freeps were doing this so why is it different when creeps transfer? And the argument that it is easier to rank a creep holds no water as I can certainly attest that it takes far more time, on average, to legitimately rank a creep to a formidable rank than it does to level a freep to 50.

  23. #23
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    Re: Regarding Creep Transfers

    I agree here too, woopty doo a freep transfers he can't ruin the balance. But nooooo, a creep comes along and it changes a billion dynamics of the server. Seriously guys, if you do it for one side, do it for the other. I was one of the people transferred, along with a few of my friends and others I know. Shoot I know of people doing it long before I did, so what gives about this new stance all of a sudden? Seriously guys, just offer the service, its there, how are there ramifications to this other then "balance"? You make sure the creep slot for the transferring character type is open and badabing badaboom, its done.

  24. #24

    Re: Regarding Creep Transfers

    Quote Originally Posted by RhinoRage View Post
    First of all click on that Arkenstone thread and start reading who caused the drama first. Yeah that is right YOU guys are causing drama because you feel threatened by our presence because you feel it will tip the balance. When we were on Arkenstone for 1 hour we did not cause any problems whatsoever and you guys asked us to leave we did. So tell me why is it you keep coming here saying we are the ones to blame and cause problems on your server when we respected your wish and moved on to a different server explain that to me?

    You don't even know what happened on Elendilmir again you are generalizing everything and pointing fingers. First of all there were other people from different servers and tribes who went onto that server and started causing problems. It was a coincidence that we arrived at around the same time, so they saw new people and assumed our tribe was the people causing problems in OOC and their vent because of all the new names. There was no special treatment given to us. In that Elendilmir highlight you posted they were talking about Vapor who wasn't even in our tribe.
    I have generally found E to be one of the more inclusive and tolerant creep communities from amongst the servers on which I have played. Personally I would welcome any group of creeps than came to help stem the tide of the ever-zerging, easy-mode freeps.

    While I don't know the whole story I suspect it is a matter of a misunderstanding. Probably some groups tried to communicate with the newly arrived parties and had difficulty. I don't think most people require regular coordination or communication for acceptance but to have an occasional chat with others in the community once in awhile would be nice.

    I welcome all new creeps to E since my last experiences have often involved the freeps rolling the creeps. It would be nice to deal a little bit of hurt back to the freeps just to remind them that even with all of their broken advantages they are still mortal.

  25. #25

    Re: Regarding Creep Transfers

    Quote Originally Posted by Frelorn View Post
    This is a very real concern of ours. We were just discussing this matter the other day. As of right now things are still in the discussion stage, but it is something that is on our collective radars.
    This is crazy. If you are talking about a half to full raid sized force of ANYBODY moving servers it will disrupt the balance. If you argue that because it is high ranked creeps they have better survivability etc and freeps don't gain anything by ranking, then consider this. If 18 players (freeps) that are ranks 8,9,10 go anywhere, you can see by their ranks that they have extensive experience with raiding in the 'Moors. A force like that would absolutely tip the scales.

    Aside from a whole tribe moving, what about someone who plays most of his/her time during non-peak (est) times and can't do much more than farm some npc's? Is there a crystal ball that shows someone which servers offer action at each time of the day? What if a server used to have action during a certain time and now there is nothing? Things change in over a year since this game has been out, not just in the game but in people's personal lives. If someone wants to pvp in this case their options are throw away over a year's worth of pvp exp on a toon and roll a green or find a new game to play. Those two choices show nothing but blatant discrimination of the portion of the player base who chooses to play the Monster Characters.

    To the guy from Ark who keeps saying all this stuff and lumping everyone into one basket. I played on your server doing research in the moring to see how the action was for two days and you guys didn't know my green dot from another green dot. I would also like you to name one of us who caused any drama.

    Also, I knew of MP's who transfered long before any of us did. Nobody had an issue until it was a group trying all at the same time. Then the issue became, imho, that the big dogs didn't want any other big dogs in their playground. It's an understandable feeling. I have read so much bs about these guys in several forums that were very skewed and never posted out of respect for Darkrage. The time has come to set things straight though. All that transfered weren't from this group and despite what someone from E thinks out of 3 creep transfers there only one of us had transfered. You can't start spewing things without knowing facts or you lose credibility.


    Fleshrender
    Lendilrandir

    **just fixed a typo
    Last edited by sharky1511; Jul 05 2008 at 02:18 AM.

 

 
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