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  1. #1
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    Question Lore-master Virtue Traits

    I'm trying to decide what virtues to work on by identifying my top 3 stats to improve. For my lore-master I think that should be Will, Fate, and Vitality.

    That would mean that my virtues should be possibly:

    Confidence
    Empathy
    Fidelity
    Honesty
    Honour
    Idealism*
    Loyalty
    Wisdom

    That is a lot to choose from when I only get 5! Where do I start?

    *Idealism is the only virtue I'm positive that I need.
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  2. #2
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    Re: Lore-master Virtue Traits

    Valour. Valour. Valour.

    Ok seriously...Valour. Really. By the time you max it out it is something like +226 morale. LM's have the lowest armor in the game, the only way we can compensate for that is by upping our morale pool as large as possible. Personally I think every class in the game should consider Valour as one of their "must-slot" traits, but I would say it is especially important for LM's. (The only class I would say it is MORE important for is guardians, since it's their job in a fellowship to take damage, and the larger the morale pool they have, the more of a cushion the healers in the group have to get off those heals.)

    Other than Valour, I would say Idealism (for the Fate boost) is probably the only other "absolutely, must-slot" trait.

    Besides those two, my LM is currently running with Loyalty (for the vitality boost), Wisdom (for the Will boost), and...gosh...I can't even remember what my 5th is. Maybe Determination (for the agility, and thus the evade/parry bonus as well as greater chance of landing hits).

    Hard to argue with Fidelity (for the Shadow Resistance) for any endgame character. The same could be said for Confidence, since there are some nasty Fear-based debuffs you face at 40+ (e.g. one that is -226 to both will and fate...ouch!), not to mention the fact that all shadow DoT's do a check versus Fear Resistance. At earlier levels you don't see a lot of shadow attacks, and the fears you do see are (relatively) minor and don't impact your character all that much. But once you are hunting in Angmar and some of the endgame instances, those shadow and fear effects just plain SUCK. So anything that helps you resist them is a big bonus.

    At endgame, I plan on running with Valour & Idealism, and then some combo of 3 of the following 4: Loyalty, Wisdom, Fidelity, and Confidence. Probably the one from the list I will drop is Wisdom, as once we get our power drain skill we essentially should never be hurting for power.
    Last edited by MithrilSoul; Apr 09 2008 at 06:38 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Re: Lore-master Virtue Traits

    Quote Originally Posted by MithrilSoul View Post
    Valour. Valour. Valour.
    Ooh, I didn't think of that. I had Vitality as one of my important stats but I forgot about building up morale directly. The Might bonus will help with my staff-whacking too!
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  4. #4
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    Re: Lore-master Virtue Traits

    Mithril has some good advice. Valour is very important.

    I am currently slotting Valour, Justice, Determination, Loyalty and Tolerance. The combo gives
    +33 Agility
    +6 Might
    +18 Vitality (54 Morale)
    +8 Armor
    +385 Morale
    +39 Power
    +1.9 In-Combat Morale Regen
    +9.1 non-Combat Morale Regen
    -3% Tactical Vulnerability

    I only slot Tolerance (and wouldn't recommend it for any other reason) because it enables me to slot the staff Anorolf, which gives +174 Morale, +30 Vitality (+90Morale) and +30 Agility. I like it for the Moors and soloing. If not for that I'd slot either Fidelity or Idealism.

    For Raiding I will sometimes remove Loyalty and Tolerance in favor of Fidelity and Confidence for the fear resistance and shadow mitigations.
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  5. #5
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    Re: Lore-master Virtue Traits

    Valour Justice Idealism are absolute musts for any situation.

    Loyalty and Determination are also nice, but those are geared more towards solo play. You might want to switch those out for something boosting resists, or some other fun stuff.
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  6. #6
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    Re: Lore-master Virtue Traits

    Quote Originally Posted by Asriel View Post
    Valour Justice Idealism are absolute musts for any situation.

    Loyalty and Determination are also nice, but those are geared more towards solo play. You might want to switch those out for something boosting resists, or some other fun stuff.
    Echoing his sentiments as well. I always have Idealism, Valour and Justice slotted. The other two depends on the content I am doing (for solo play and early grouping I like the aforementioned traits as well like Determination and Loyalty).

  7. #7
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    Re: Lore-master Virtue Traits

    Sorry for the minor necro-post, but this thread was just what the doctor ordered! Thanks, and by all means feel free to continue discussing. I enjoy hearing the philosophies and rationales behind various builds.

    This one goes in the subscribed threads for me.
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  8. #8

    Re: Lore-master Virtue Traits

    Valour
    Justice
    Determination

    These 3 are almost a must-have, IMO. Bonuses to Max Morale and In-Combat Morale Regen (ICMR). I feel like ICMR is frequently overlooked by LMs, but it's one of the few things you can increase pretty easily with traits that isn't easy to increase with gear. Light armour just doesn't have as many pieces with ICMR bonuses. This greatly increased my survivability. My ICMR sits at 750/min.

    Wisdom
    Idealism

    I used to slot Tolerance (for the Agi bonus and the .5 ICMR bonus) but since the ICMR didn't scale with the level of the trait, I felt that the extra Will from Wisdom was a better choice.

    Idealism is pretty much a no-brainer for LMs. I'm sure there are perfectly good builds that omit it, but the exta 24 or so Fate really helps to hit the 350 soft cap on Fate.

  9. #9
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    Re: Lore-master Virtue Traits

    As I tell everyone, there are no "must have" traits. The only ones I can think of that come close to it are Valour and Justice.

    Virtues should be slotted depending on what you are trying to do. Are you going to be joining a raid, fellowship, small fellowship, or are you going solo? Where are you going? Are there lots of ranged enemies, melee, or shadow dotters? And so on.

    I believe if you check the combat boards, Hakon Stormbrow did lots of number crunching on the different types of stats. For instance, at 3000 Morale (including heals) 1 point of might is roughly equivalent to X amount of morale. I made a chart with the given data to see which virtues give the most survivability under what circumstances.

    (****! I can't find it. It must be on a backup CD somewhere. Sorry)

    In any case, Valour and Justice made the top five in every situation.

    I think for just overall survivabilty (solo/small fellowship, random mobs), you have Valour, Justice, Determination, and Loyalty, with Fidelity and Disicipline coming in close together. This is just for survivability. If you are going for a more specialized build, or need the stats from certain virtues, you might try slotting different ones.

    As for Idealism, I personally don't slot it. I have enough fate as it is. I don't run out of power, I have over 20% tactical crit chance, and the fate doesn't add as much as other stats at the level I currently have them at.

  10. #10
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    Re: Lore-master Virtue Traits

    All the traits and virtues are situational.
    Same for just about all your gear.

    It depends what you are going to be doing most or what you will do at some important point in time in the game.
    Some special occations will require you to change things around if you plan to win.

    What would happen if you have added about 25% resist to fear ?
    Go to Angmar and stand by the stones where west meets east.
    Stand there for about 5 minutes and see how much moral you lose.
    I lost 276 moral.
    A lv 50 burg said he lost allmost half his moral.

    Some of the boss mobs can hit you pretty hard with fear effects and you'll
    spend some time cowering instead of fighting.

    A good balance pays off in general but sometimes you have to go with the flow.

  11. #11
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    Re: Lore-master Virtue Traits

    I would say Valour and Justice would be the best options right off the bat. The other 3 you can mix and match accordingly with the content you are facing. Leveling up I did the aforementioned traits plus Idealism, Determination and Loyalty.

  12. #12

    Re: Lore-master Virtue Traits

    I agree Valour, Justice and Idealism are the 3 I generally don't touch. The others I switch based on what I am doing. I also agree with the comments on those that give fear resistance for end game content, it really makes a difference at times.
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  13. #13
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    Thumbs up Re: Lore-master Virtue Traits

    Quote Originally Posted by koifishkid View Post
    For my lore-master I think that should be Will, Fate, and Vitality.
    These virtues are my only focus, period. My job is crowd control, tactical damage, and the heavy power-user recharge. Fate is the key. To do these, I need power; thus Will prevails here. Finally, I need to supplement my job by staying alive long enough to allow the healer to do her job - keep me alive to do mine.

    Ever the contrarian, I disagree with the majority of posters when they say that Valour and Justice are immutable traits. Yes, they give nice morale boosts, but my philosophy is to eschew single-function buffs for the composite virtue buffs. So Valour's main feature is a max 286 morale boost, roughly +95 Vitality without the additional benefits provided by a direct 95 point Vitality boost.

    Here's what you get with 10 Valour:
    286 Morale
    406.1 OOC Morale Regen
    +8 Might =

    • Might
      • 8 Parry Rating
      • 16 Block Rating
      • 8 Common Defense Rating
      • 0.528% Damage



    This is what you'd receive for 95 Vitality points:

    • Vitality
      • 285 Morale
      • 684 Out of Combat Morale Regeneration
      • 190 Disease Rating
      • 190 Poison Rating
      • 190 Wound Rating
      • 95 Fire Defense Rating
      • 95 Frost Defense Rating
      • 95 Shadow Defense Rating
      • 95 Lightning Defense Rating
      • 95 Acid Defense Rating


    So, before you hang your hat on Valour and Justice, take a look at Confidence - 15 Will, Empathy - 15 Fate, Idealism - 30 Fate, Loyalty - 30 Vitality, and Wisdom - 30 Will.

    Above all, go with what works for your playing style. This is what works for my level 52 LM.

    Hope that helps.
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  14. #14
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    Re: Lore-master Virtue Traits

    Quote Originally Posted by mstelly View Post
    Ever the contrarian, I disagree with the majority of posters when they say that Valour and Justice are immutable traits. Yes, they give nice morale boosts, but my philosophy is to eschew single-function buffs for the composite virtue buffs. So Valour's main feature is a max 286 morale boost, roughly +95 Vitality without the additional benefits provided by a direct 95 point Vitality boost.
    Do you find the extra resistance to fire/frost/shadow/lightning/acid/etc matters? I mean it's something like 5% resistance without and 5.5% with. I don't think you'll notice.

    Even so, Valour gives 285 morale. You'd need about 95 vitality to equal that morale gain. There are no traits that given even close to that amount, so I don't see how that can be counted against Valour.

    Also, this thread is many months old and the ratings did not exist at the time it was made or replied to.
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  15. #15
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    Re: Lore-master Virtue Traits

    Old thread, but still relatively accurate. Combat changes have led to me playing with my traits a little, while I still slot Valour and Justice all the time, with Loyalty a strong third, I've been playing with the others:

    *Valour - Morale
    *Justice - Morale, MICR
    *Loyalty - Vitality, Armour, Power

    Innocence - -5% melee vuln, Fear & Poison
    Fidelity - Vitality, Shadow, Power
    Determination - Morale, ICMR, Agility
    Idealism - Fate, Will, Fear

    Haven't slotted the following yet, but thinking about trying:

    Empathy - Armour, Fate, Fear
    Honesty - Armour, Power, Fate
    Zeal - -2.5% melee vuln, Disease & Poison

    BTW, there is a nice chart on the Lorebook: Virtues at rnk 10
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  16. #16
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    Re: Lore-master Virtue Traits

    Post-Moria I slot:
    Valour
    Justice
    Loyalty
    Idealism
    Empathy

    I really just switched out Empathy for Fidelity, as with the new combat system the 400+ armor is more beneficial than the shadow mit. save for a few of the instances.
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  17. #17
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    Re: Lore-master Virtue Traits

    Quote Originally Posted by FissionChips View Post
    Do you find the extra resistance to fire/frost/shadow/lightning/acid/etc matters? I mean it's something like 5% resistance without and 5.5% with. I don't think you'll notice.
    Even so, Valour gives 285 morale. You'd need about 95 vitality to equal that morale gain...

    Also, this thread is many months old and the ratings did not exist at the time it was made or replied to.
    I realize the age of the OP. But with the MoM release, I believe it's important to revisit and discuss the issue. Also, the ratings did exist, they just weren't published. We had to deconstruct the percentages to understand them.

    Quote Originally Posted by FissionChips View Post
    ...There are no traits that given even close to that amount, so I don't see how that can be counted against Valour.
    I guess I failed to clarify my point. There are many available equipment items that buff morale. The point being that I have 5 slots for virtues. I want to maximize my use of that limited resource. Then, I can use gear to fill in the gaps.

    I don't want to discount Valour. It was merely an example. What I do want is to provide folks an alternative that they may not have considered before.

    Finally, as for resistance buffs ANY increase is better than no increase, IMO.

    Thanks for the rebuttal.
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  18. #18
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    Re: Lore-master Virtue Traits

    Here's what I find to be best (when maxed at level 10)

    Justice: 143 morale / 60 morale regen income / 271morale reg out of com
    Valor: 286 morale / 406.1 morale reg out of com / 8 might
    Empathy: 450 ac / 15 fate / 609 fear res
    Loyalty: 62 power / 150 ac / 30 vit
    Honesty: 270 ac / 123 pow / 8 fate

    I replaced Wisdom with Honestly, it was a good move. My gear is very Wisdom/power focused, with strong regens. This set has more morale and AC then is typical, but I also know I have to be able to withstand the fury of nastiest mobs for my team to win the day.

    AC is king for all mitigation, post Moria. Also, remember you will often in fighting in close quarters, and especially in the high-end content, you will need to withstand significant melee range damage, regardless of play style.
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  19. #19
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    Re: Lore-master Virtue Traits

    Quote Originally Posted by eanamdar View Post
    Here's what I find to be best (when maxed at level 10)

    Justice: 143 morale / 60 morale regen income / 271morale reg out of com
    Valor: 286 morale / 406.1 morale reg out of com / 8 might
    Empathy: 450 ac / 15 fate / 609 fear res
    Loyalty: 62 power / 150 ac / 30 vit
    Honesty: 270 ac / 123 pow / 8 fate
    This is the build that I find favorable.

  20. #20
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    Re: Lore-master Virtue Traits

    Quote Originally Posted by eanamdar View Post
    Here's what I find to be best (when maxed at level 10)

    Justice: 143 morale / 60 morale regen income / 271morale reg out of com
    Valor: 286 morale / 406.1 morale reg out of com / 8 might
    Empathy: 450 ac / 15 fate / 609 fear res
    Loyalty: 62 power / 150 ac / 30 vit
    Honesty: 270 ac / 123 pow / 8 fate
    Confidence - 15 Will, Empathy - 15 Fate, Idealism - 30 Fate, Loyalty - 30 Vitality, and Wisdom - 30 Will.
    I'll compare both builds once I get to higher-level content and see which works for me. It won't be a statistical comparison, just anecdotal. I'm too submersed in the game to crunch numbers while in combat.
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  21. #21
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    Re: Lore-master Virtue Traits

    Quote Originally Posted by mstelly View Post
    I'll compare both builds once I get to higher-level content and see which works for me. It won't be a statistical comparison, just anecdotal. I'm too submersed in the game to crunch numbers while in combat.
    One of the keys to my choices is what my current gear provides. If your gear set is soft in areas you can use traits to resolve that. I've played with several combinations, and do sometimes swap traits for specific encounters.
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  22. #22
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    Re: Lore-master Virtue Traits

    Before I get too far, I won't pretend to know what I'm talking about, but have a working theory that many of the traits discussed here are all flash and no cash to borrow a phrase. Maybe bragging rights for the most morale or power is something but generally going for that kind of thing leaves some gaps in character development.

    While those characters may have 5% or so more power or morale, and yes that maybe comes into play once in a great while, I have to wonder how they are using their time and how effective they are in their multipurpose role. This is a theory in the working stages, but I am carrying alot of wound and fear resistance and find I am not having to worry about taking time to heal myself or remove fear from myself in CD, Rift, or Angmar in general. I still get feared and wounded on occasion but I have to wonder how much time other Loremasters spend out of action because they are so much succeptable to debuffs.

    Too often I see some other Loremasters just kind of standing around while I'm casting debuffs, mezs, holds, buffs, dps, and pullng agro from Minsterils, and the like. I had one Loremaster tell me he was a "DPS Loremaster" and could I please keep those two drakes occupied becaue he had no crowd control. Sure, no problem, and what are you going to do? lmao rofl
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  23. #23
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    Re: Lore-master Virtue Traits

    Here is my post Moria vitrtues.

    Heatseeking rockets , a must have.
    Napalm.
    Hydrogen Bomb, another must have imo.
    Death and destruction for my enemies.
    Flowers and kittens for my fellowship.

    Mostly inerchangable of course, for solo I like to bring out the supersledge from Fallout that looks like a stick, Or even the Kraken from clash of the Titans, hes very cute.

  24. #24
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    Re: Lore-master Virtue Traits

    Quote Originally Posted by Draegon912 View Post
    Here is my post Moria vitrtues.

    Heatseeking rockets , a must have.
    Napalm.
    Hydrogen Bomb, another must have imo.
    Death and destruction for my enemies.
    Flowers and kittens for my fellowship.

    Mostly inerchangable of course, for solo I like to bring out the supersledge from Fallout that looks like a stick, Or even the Kraken from clash of the Titans, hes very cute.
    lol

    I love it. My personal favorite is when someone says, "That's a rabbit...." tears come to my eyes rofl
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  25. #25

    Re: Lore-master Virtue Traits

    Post MoM I solo with:
    Valour, Justice, Loyalty, Emaphy, and Innocence

    Grouping virtues:
    Valour, Loyalty, Empathy, Honesty, and typically Justice - though I sometime switch it our for Fidelity or Compassion, depending on the situation
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