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  1. #26
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    I'm wondering if the OP is working or has been paid by Turbine to make this post.

    It's very weird to see a costumer asking for the price of a product to stay high.
    Even if you consider it a mini-expansion (Mirkwood size), it still doesn't warrant double the price of that expansion (Mirkwood was 995TP for a long time).

  2. #27
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    I think it's also worthy of note that mostly we are buying the raid totally blind. OK, I know loads of people will buy expacs etc having not tested on BR, or researching what is in the bundle, but there's something about the fact the raid will be coming later, much like with the Rohan raids, that worries me. Could it be it's a single wing, fairly short, almost boss-in-a-box affair? By releasing it a few months after U18 (18.1 will be bug fixes and polish, 18.2 most likely at least 6-8wks, perhaps more after) anyone that buys U18 initially will have effectively "pre-ordered" the raid IE no amount of googling or asking kinnies will get any answers about what the raid is like. Turbine's silence about U18 in way of Dev Diaries or even teasers is a concern. If the raid IS multiwing, large and awesome, even if still early days, I'd be teasing and stuff by now... Though with past record, who can blame them keeping quiet. They teased the new PvMP map, and it took people a few hours to work out it was a bridge shuffle. *shrugs*

    Though I suspect the silence about the raid is more along the lines of people will buy the region regardless, as they are so invested at this point, hence my theory about testing how high a price they can get away with during Beta, rather than release at a high price, get complaints, then reduce price and have those that bought early rightly complain even louder.

    Anyway, for me, if I was going to buy using cash for TP, I'd wait til I at least knew for sure what the raid was about.

  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by matalan View Post
    I think it's also worthy of note that mostly we are buying the raid totally blind. OK, I know loads of people will buy expacs etc having not tested on BR, or researching what is in the bundle, but there's something about the fact the raid will be coming later, much like with the Rohan raids, that worries me. Could it be it's a single wing, fairly short, almost boss-in-a-box affair? By releasing it a few months after U18 (18.1 will be bug fixes and polish, 18.2 most likely at least 6-8wks, perhaps more after) anyone that buys U18 initially will have effectively "pre-ordered" the raid IE no amount of googling or asking kinnies will get any answers about what the raid is like. Turbine's silence about U18 in way of Dev Diaries or even teasers is a concern. If the raid IS multiwing, large and awesome, even if still early days, I'd be teasing and stuff by now... Though with past record, who can blame them keeping quiet. They teased the new PvMP map, and it took people a few hours to work out it was a bridge shuffle. *shrugs*

    Though I suspect the silence about the raid is more along the lines of people will buy the region regardless, as they are so invested at this point, hence my theory about testing how high a price they can get away with during Beta, rather than release at a high price, get complaints, then reduce price and have those that bought early rightly complain even louder.

    Anyway, for me, if I was going to buy using cash for TP, I'd wait til I at least knew for sure what the raid was about.
    We're not even buying the raid blind, Vyvyanne mentioned it's just going to be a reskinned version of one of the other instances.
    I know not to pay too much attention to what she says, but I believe her this time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vyvyanne View Post
    The raid is being built off of a solo instance that is in Update 18. In U18.2 that same storyline and space from the solo instance will be expanded upon with additional raid bosses, space and mechanics not found in the solo version you experience in U18. We made this choice because while this moment made a great raid experience, we did not want to block that part of the storyline from those who might never wish to do a raid.

  4. #29
    i guess, the raid will be the fight against mordirith. it will be part of the epic story, but we will get a raid off it to make it more epic :P
    Diskutierer, Fragenbeantworter, Twinker, Händler, Handwerker und Anführer der 'Gemeinschaft der freien Völker' auf Belegaer.
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oelle View Post
    i guess, the raid will be the fight against mordirith. it will be part of the epic story, but we will get a raid off it to make it more epic :P
    When you consider that this was the exact same thing done with Carn Dum.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by matalan View Post
    I think it's also worthy of note that mostly we are buying the raid totally blind. OK, I know loads of people will buy expacs etc having not tested on BR, or researching what is in the bundle, but there's something about the fact the raid will be coming later, much like with the Rohan raids, that worries me. Could it be it's a single wing, fairly short, almost boss-in-a-box affair? By releasing it a few months after U18 (18.1 will be bug fixes and polish, 18.2 most likely at least 6-8wks, perhaps more after) anyone that buys U18 initially will have effectively "pre-ordered" the raid IE no amount of googling or asking kinnies will get any answers about what the raid is like. Turbine's silence about U18 in way of Dev Diaries or even teasers is a concern. If the raid IS multiwing, large and awesome, even if still early days, I'd be teasing and stuff by now... Though with past record, who can blame them keeping quiet. They teased the new PvMP map, and it took people a few hours to work out it was a bridge shuffle. *shrugs*

    Though I suspect the silence about the raid is more along the lines of people will buy the region regardless, as they are so invested at this point, hence my theory about testing how high a price they can get away with during Beta, rather than release at a high price, get complaints, then reduce price and have those that bought early rightly complain even louder.

    Anyway, for me, if I was going to buy using cash for TP, I'd wait til I at least knew for sure what the raid was about.
    No qiest pack has ever vcost this much, even ones with waids... so poo excuse mo
    I saw the light fade from the sky
    On the wind I heard a sigh
    As the snowflakes cover my fallen brothers
    I will say this last goodbye

  7. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by matalan View Post
    IMHO they have intentionally priced it high in Beta to see what they can get away with, so they can (A) reduce it and look like they have listened, yay! or (B) If no one complained, rake it in.

    Looks like (A) is what will happen.
    Yea, that's pretty much it.
    And if they keep it high and people complain after release, they can just throw Brutus778 under the bus by dropping his name as reasoning for the high price.



    Too soon?

  8. #33
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    $27 is out of my budget for two three-person instances and one six. East Gondor had that. Moria is less and has hundreds of quests, introduced legendary weaponry, two classes, and bunches of instances.

    $27 is too much for a friend I play with who said, "wow, steep for an aging game".

    $27 is out of the budget of another friend I play with due to family finances and tax time.

    Note, we all purchased East Gondor without a thought.

    It would be nice to be able to buy the instances and potential raid without the region/quests, but 60 quests isn't worth much.

    Presumably that price is simply a marketing placeholder, put high so everyone freaks and is happy when the final price is higher than previous but lower than this. It's a common form of market manipulation Turbine has practiced in the past. Instead of being about $10 as previous areas have been, they can make it $15 or $20 and lots of folks will applaud and generate positive PR for the higher price point, since it's not as high as they feared.
    Link to our community LOTRO store google spreadsheet pricelist and conversion rates, please contribute too!: https://goo.gl/wxPqCm

  9. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by RJFerret View Post
    $27
    This is what it costs to be VIP, all of which cost less than $27:

    $8.33/month (12 months=$99)
    $10/month (3/6 months=$30/$60)
    $14.99/month

    So 2000 Turbine points is a totally justified cost, if you want PERMANENTLY FREE access to the content, especially since those points cost NOTHING for many players to get.

    I think they should either require VIP to access the new instances (for a limited time at least), or not offer the instance cluster as a TP sale item at all and make everyone that wants access to buy it with real money from the Store button at the top of this page.

  10. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Rufkin View Post
    This is what it costs to be VIP, all of which cost less than $27:

    $8.33/month (12 months=$99)
    $10/month (3/6 months=$30/$60)
    $14.99/month

    So 2000 Turbine points is a totally justified cost, if you want PERMANENTLY FREE access to the content, especially since those points cost NOTHING for many players to get.

    I think they should either require VIP to access the new instances (for a limited time at least), or not offer the instance cluster as a TP sale item at all and make everyone that wants access to buy it with real money from the Store button at the top of this page.
    Oh, you mean I can play U18 for a whole month with VIP for less than the cost to have it forever? WOW.

    BTW your suggestions would kill the game. Not sure if you realize, but this game has a F2P model for a reason. It's because it makes vastly more money for them and has vastly more people playing than if it were sub-only. People like having the flexibility.

    2000 TP is too much for a small quest pack and three instances. If they're planning on adding vastly more content to this pack (besides the raid) in the future, then that's information they should be sharing now.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rufkin View Post
    This is what it costs to be VIP, all of which cost less than $27:

    $8.33/month (12 months=$99)
    $10/month (3/6 months=$30/$60)
    $14.99/month

    So 2000 Turbine points is a totally justified cost, if you want PERMANENTLY FREE access to the content, especially since those points cost NOTHING for many players to get.

    I think they should either require VIP to access the new instances (for a limited time at least), or not offer the instance cluster as a TP sale item at all and make everyone that wants access to buy it with real money from the Store button at the top of this page.

    Thiose points do cost something if vip or time if f2p and that is turbines problem fr making it so easy to farm the tp uif people choose to do it

    So yes, it is cheaper to go vip but SLL OTHER QQUEST PACKS other than expansions have been less than 10 bucks and since this is not an expansion and hell barely even a quest opack with only 60 quest it should be priced around the same as ALL OTHER QUESTPACKS IN THE GAME


    Thats like going to walmart to buy a jar of pasta sauce and prego has a new flavor and wants to charge you double the amount for just that 1 jar... I bet you wouldnt buy it even though you would come on here and say you would
    I saw the light fade from the sky
    On the wind I heard a sigh
    As the snowflakes cover my fallen brothers
    I will say this last goodbye

  12. #37
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    If Turbine thinks that this is going to increase their revenue then I think they need to think again.

    Gondor (all 3 regions) should have been released as an expansion not as individual QP's, as should U18.

    I did buy 3mnts ViP just after xmas to save my 3x500TP so that I could purchase 2 of the Gondor regions from my ViP allowance, MT/Anorian with all it's current problems I probably won't purchase, I'll just grind out the TP for it.

    Will I buy ViP for free access to U18? NO! @2000TP that's going to be 4 months ViP just for 1 region with some unknown instances at a later date.

    All this assuming that I can stop myself from wasting any of my free points on fluff like boosts etc.

    I see people cancelling ViP all the time, and I believe that this is just going to cause even more people to cancel ViP and produce more TP grinders to get this content for "free".

  13. #38
    I know this will seem crazy, but I wonder if this indicates an effort by Turbine management to revise their revenue model and move away from 'grind avoidance revenue'. Please bear with me for a moment.

    Let's say you have 100 reliable players and a revenue goal of $1000. One way to generate that revenue is to create an Update* and charge each player $10 for it (100 x $10 = $1000). Let us call this the Expansion Revenue Model. Another way to generate that revenue is to price the Update much lower, say $5, but include an onerous grind mechanic and then charge to bypass that mechanic. Let us call this the Grind Avoidance Revenue Model. In the second case, most players will not pay to bypass anything, but a small number of wealthy players will pay to bypass the 'grind' and thus make up the lost revenue. Let us presume 10 players each pay $50 to 'avoid the grind' such that (100 x $5 + 10 x $50 = $1000). As you can see from this very simple example, both models meet revenue goals.

    Now here is the interesting thing. If Turbine management wished to move away from the Grind Avoidance Revenue Model, we should expect to see changes in pricing somewhere, such as an increase in Update pricing. That is, given any fixed revenue goal, lowering revenue from one source necessarily requires generating more revenue somewhere else.

    Please note, I am _not_ making a normative statement about what Turbine management _should_ do, or if it is 'right' or 'wrong'. I am curious about the intent of this price increase. It may simply indicate an attempt to generate more revenue from substantively equivalent items (Updates). Frelorn mentioned that Update 18.1 or 18.2 (I forget) would include an increase in the Legendary Weapon caps.** I am therefore unsure if this indicates any change in revenue models at all. Yet, I still think it is an interesting thing to consider because it is the sort of thing we should expect to see if Turbine management wishes to adjust the revenue stream.




    * For argument's sake, let us presume this Update contains an optimal mix of landscape, dungeon, and Player versus Player content such that all 100 players wish to purchase it.

    ** I would also expect to see this statement in case of an effort to shift revenue models. If charging more for Updates generates sufficient revenue to meet goals, they could later revise their position and not increase the cap on legendary weapons, or reduce the magnitude of the increase, or make it very easy for everyone to achieve the increase without substantial 'grind'.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by kickman77 View Post
    No qiest pack has ever vcost this much, even ones with waids... so poo excuse mo
    Because raids used to be part of expansions, not quest packs.

    I believe the instance cluster is the main reason for this price. They said they hadn't enough resources to develop instances, and here it is. They could divide it into 2 parts (quest pack and instances pack) for casuals though.

    P.S. As a VIP player I don't care anyway

  15. #40
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    OD is a raid from a quest pack (Enedwaith).

    This price is a lot more than other quest packs of similar size, or even expansions (Mirkwood).

    I would say it is priced too high.

  16. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by dstini View Post
    2000 TP is too much for a small quest pack and three instances.
    FREE costs too much. Wow, that's news to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by dstini View Post
    BTW your suggestions would kill the game. Not sure if you realize, but this game has a F2P model for a reason. It's because it makes vastly more money for them and has vastly more people playing than if it were sub-only. People like having the flexibility.
    No my suggestion would not kill the game, or else no expansion would ever have sold in the history of F2P MMOs. My suggestion would either kill any pretense that a twelve man raid is something the majority of LotRO Players want to pay for or prove that the player base really wants that content. No player that doesn't want that content should be forced into buying it, and those that do want to buy that costly content should be the players that pay for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vexendynamus View Post
    I know this will seem crazy, but I wonder if this indicates an effort by Turbine management to revise their revenue model and move away from 'grind avoidance revenue'. Please bear with me for a moment.
    I think it is more an effort to say to WB or whomever they report profit to, "95% of our F2P population purchased the new raid." In order to justify the cost of making that raid. If they split it like I suggested (put the instance cluster in the Store at the top of this page), only players that want it would pay for that content, and then Turbine may or may not be able to justify the cost of making it.

  17. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Rufkin View Post
    FREE costs too much. Wow, that's news to me.



    No my suggestion would not kill the game, or else no expansion would ever have sold in the history of F2P MMOs. My suggestion would either kill any pretense that a twelve man raid is something the majority of LotRO Players want to pay for or prove that the player base really wants that content. No player that doesn't want that content should be forced into buying it, and those that do want to buy that costly content should be the players that pay for it.



    I think it is more an effort to say to WB or whomever they report profit to, "95% of our F2P population purchased the new raid." In order to justify the cost of making that raid. If they split it like I suggested (put the instance cluster in the Store at the top of this page), only players that want it would pay for that content, and then Turbine may or may not be able to justify the cost of making it.
    VIP isn't free.
    Just FYI.

    Your suggestion would kill the game, because it's not a real expansion in any sense, and primary subscription models are no longer viable except for the very biggest MMO companies.

  18. #43
    [QUOTE=Treelove;7558119]

    It is what it says[/QUOTE

    Since I know that I wont be playing the instances this price is way to high, especially since there are only 60 quests.
    Imo they should make the quest pack only available for 795 as they did for previous updates.

  19. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by dstini View Post
    VIP isn't free.
    Just FYI.

    Your suggestion would kill the game, because it's not a real expansion in any sense, and primary subscription models are no longer viable except for the very biggest MMO companies.
    If they sold the instances separately, or made people that want access pay for VIP, Turbine would only make money, which has a 0% chance of killing the game. People buying the quest pack either get it with free pts or buy pts (6-800 TP like the rest), and people wanting instances sub or pay for permanent access to them. In what backwards system does that cause them to lose money? The only way it wouldn't work out well for Turbine is if they are wrong in having invested any time producing a new raid, in which case the result would be that they won't produce any more raids, not that they'd shut the whole game down because you told them to.

  20. #45
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    There's a reason why the 2k TP is not justified and it's a really simple one.

    The upcharge is for the new raid, we clearly know that.

    We don't get the new raid until summer. 2-4 months after the original expansion

    We don't know if the raid is worth the extra TP.

    Seriously, waiting 2-4 months for a raid that players might end up demanding refunds over? Not a good idea AT ALL.

    I would recommend this: Sell the quest pack at 795 like Mirkwood Expack. Upcharge to 1995 TP for QP+Raid. Then, when the actually raid comes out, charge 1295 TP for the raid. Because let's be honest, if it's a BfE, FoS, and/or FTTLM repeat, no one is gonna want to buy it when it comes out. It's really simple what they're doing, but you've got to be stupid to buy blind into something you can't even play until 2-4 months after release.

    Before anyone calls me out on "well you're buying the Quests blindly becuz u dnt knw wht the new znes r gunna be bruh." You're wrong, because you can actually get on Beta and test the stuff to see if it's worth it BEFORE you buy the quest pack. The raid, however, will not be able to be tested until AFTER the update goes live and you've already placed an investment on a wobbly stock.

    Yours truly,
    Glorg <3
    Glorgnorbor, A Rock And A Hard Place, Stop by our Friday music shows! 4PM EST at the Bree West Gate on Dwarrowdelf!
    If a Malledhrim Soldier dies alone in the forest because of canceled quest, will it make a sound? ~Leixy
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  21. #46
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    If this price is more than just high because everyone on BR gets free tp, then people might find it hard to find people to run the instances.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rufkin View Post
    If they sold the instances separately, or made people that want access pay for VIP, Turbine would only make money, which has a 0% chance of killing the game. People buying the quest pack either get it with free pts or buy pts (6-800 TP like the rest), and people wanting instances sub or pay for permanent access to them. In what backwards system does that cause them to lose money? The only way it wouldn't work out well for Turbine is if they are wrong in having invested any time producing a new raid, in which case the result would be that they won't produce any more raids, not that they'd shut the whole game down because you told them to.
    No, people would say, f*** it, and went somewhere where raids don't suck hard and cost sh**load too.

  23. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Vellrad View Post
    No, people would say, f*** it, and went somewhere where raids don't suck hard and cost sh**load too.
    They mostly sold quest packs separate from xpacks. I never bought the xpack except for HD where they didn't offer quest pack only. (Got all complete xpacs on sale last July). The Osgilliath instances were included in the update for 795 tp. I always liked to be able not having to pay for content I won't play. There is no reason why players who are only interested in the questing should pay more unless they know that there are just not enough players who would buy the instances if given a choice. But then, why even waste resources on making them? And with the late release of the raid it would make sense to sell that later on separate from the quests which imo should be at least over 100.

  24. #49
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    There have been some questions around the pricing of the new region pack: “Region Pack: Far Anórien”.


    We took into consideration of current pricing, historical pricing, free points, and what the goals were for this particular set of content.
    *Quest packs: typically 595 – 795tp. Current pricing since Great River has been 1x Quest Pack = 795tp (some of these, have in fact, included instances)
    *Instance Clusters: 1495tp (Rohan and Isengard)
    *Raids: As we’ve only sold one individually at 1295tp, we took this into consideration as well.


    The plan:
    For u18, the Region Pack will give you access to all new quest content (70+ quests), deeds,
    the instance cluster (3 instances), and also give you access to the raid (more information TBD)
    when that arrives with u18.2.



    1495+795 = 2290 tp
    Current price: 1995tp

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by QuartermasterU View Post
    There have been some questions around the pricing of the new region pack: “Region Pack: Far Anórien”.


    We took into consideration of current pricing, historical pricing, free points, and what the goals were for this particular set of content.
    *Quest packs: typically 595 – 795tp. Current pricing since Great River has been 1x Quest Pack = 795tp (some of these, have in fact, included instances)
    *Instance Clusters: 1495tp (Rohan and Isengard)
    *Raids: As we’ve only sold one individually at 1295tp, we took this into consideration as well.


    The plan:
    For u18, the Region Pack will give you access to all new quest content (70+ quests), deeds,
    the instance cluster (3 instances), and also give you access to the raid (more information TBD)
    when that arrives with u18.2.



    1495+795 = 2290 tp
    Current price: 1995tp
    Then please offer the instance cluster and QP separately.
    Glorgnorbor, A Rock And A Hard Place, Stop by our Friday music shows! 4PM EST at the Bree West Gate on Dwarrowdelf!
    If a Malledhrim Soldier dies alone in the forest because of canceled quest, will it make a sound? ~Leixy
    Took me a few years, but I renewed my signature :)

 

 
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