Know Thine Enemy
I've noticed that in between the discussions about classes, group play, RvR and such that people here have "intersesting" ways of describing the enemy forces they fight. Whether it's my dear friend Strobe's group of "9" zerging the map, or the videos of 40, or 50 freeps/creeps fighting (insert place here), more often than not I see specific numbers, rather than generic, more accurate names like, small group, raid, 2 raids, etc. And more often than not, these specific numbers seem exaggerated. To give an example, while flipping over to QQ on creepside(;D), I noticed someone saying a fraid had 38 freeps (or something like that, I don't remember the specific number), and then went on to list how many of each class were present. Now, maybe this fellow really is a rain-man type of guy, far be it from me to judge. But it led me to create this thread to ask the following question.
When you come across a group, freepside or creepside, how do you come to specific numbers when counting your opponent? Do you fraps the fight and count afterwards? Do you have a spy? Can you see through all the mess and brutality of war and actually count each and every single creep/freep? Personally, I take the mass of a creep zerg, estimate a fair number and multiply by 1.5 for my count. Sometimes I'll multiply by 2 if I can get away with it.
If I'm on my warg and just scouting near a group, I'll do a track and count the freeps in the track list.
Originally Posted by xmorzan
If there's something going on and I can't get an exact count, I'll just guesstimate. Practice helps with the guesstimating. A lot of time people will overestimate, but that gets better as you do it more, too.
It's not usually important to know the exact number, but is helpful to know approximate numbers, ie 4 to 6, 12 to 15, or 20 to 24.
Originally Posted by Ugmo
If possible I ask a warg to track. Absent that I try to get a man track and an elf track and then add a few for the few hobbits and dwarves that are about, particularly if I have seen said types. After that if I am in a place where I can simply count and the freeps help me by not moving about too much I will actually count. And lastly I estimate. I have gotten pretty good at getting to within a few.
We had this exact discussion in group last night.
Often, it can be as simple as a hunter telling the group "I have a page and a half of uprights on track". That's all we need to know.
The worst is when someone out of group calls out in OOC "creeps at lug xroads", umm, how many?? SHould a raid ride across the map for 3 creeps??
Often, I'll stay dead for a minute longer just so I can get a count, rotating my camera and looking before I release. At the same time making mental notes that can be shared with the group about the enemy's composition, how many healers, BA's, wargs, etc...
With the right information you can try to set up good conditions to fight under.
I am always happy to see a player troll, it means some high;y effective creep just switched to a troll (that means I don't have to worry about him/her being OP on their main ;)
On my freep I typically won't call out a group of 5 or fewer creeps unless they're being pretty lame. If a craid runs me over, I just look at combat analysis on taken and count, subtracting pets.
On my warg I'll generally manually count if its under 12 or so freeps, past that I estimate. If more than 12 are grouped on E they're going to get creepside's full attention most of the time, so accurate counting during the fight isn't key from my perspective. I generally won't bother calling out classes unless I see something unique like 4 minstrels not in ws in a group of 8, or more than a couple burgs.
^This. I just track. If CD for tracking is up, and Creeps need to know the numbers urgently, I'll guesstimate. Usually guesstimaters aren't too far off the mark, but every now and then you'll get a few exaggerators (usually newbs).
Originally Posted by Ugmo
Ask a warg, if none available, rush into them, die horribly, and count them while they having tea 'round yer dead yet still magnificently beautiful orc corpse.
Dunno what froobs do, except now and then glue a freaver spy to the craid, I'll assume that the spy counts as well as give away positions. But as said, I don't know, never been a fan of ezmoding myself, so can't really say what froobs do. I'd prolly tap one of the hunters on the shoulder and ask if he had a vague idea...but hey,what do I know.