I have many classes, and many classes in this game are op. Lets take BlackArrows for example, there +50% evade is op, always has being, Spider's reflect causing 100% damage to be reflected is op, I can go on about many other toons. Any toon can be OP if played correctly.
About myself playing a runekeeper, I have never healed on freepside before, thought it was nice for a change. If your saying that "a healing runekeeper is the hardest to kill and screws the balance" Then we must be doing our job correctly. WarLeaders can counter our dps be just throwing up a bubble, that last for 15s if traited correctly.
This is not a troll to you by the way, just saying what I believe.
I was just using you as an example to try to explain to you why things are the way they are.
I am talking about group/raid fights here. If a BA pops his evade then attack another target or have Runekeepers, Minis, Lore-masters and other skills from other freeps that go right through their evade take them down. If a spider uses their reflect then stop attacking them or just don't hit them with your biggest hitting skills so you don't blow yourself up. Try to evenly distribute the damage between players. Or heck, just have somebody heal through the damage you do and ignore their reflect.
Did you know it takes more than 2 creeps to kill a Runekeeper that is healing? Infact they can live quite a long time with 3 or even more on them. They can keep themselves up and at the same time keep other people up in their group. In most cases long enough to get to safety. Is what a Runekeeper can do just as OP as what I spider or BA can do and can really skew the balance like no other? I guess you don't think so. That's your opinion and you're welcome to it. It's just not mine.
Sadly, i have to agree with what Maggot & Rubble have said here..
Ive seen solo Wardens hold a 12 man Craid at bay, seen RK's heal a 6 man f'ship vs a 24 man Creep raid and win, hunter and cappie Duo's make fools of creep groups, etc
To say 'freeps' arent OP at the moment is to show ignorance, and quite possibly a lack of even knowing what freeps are capable of , especially when they can co-ordinate..
Co-ordinating is where most freeps fall short.. To watch 24 man freep raids run from Grams to Lug back door when creeps get numbers and push ( picking off freeps 1 by 1, with their backs turned ) is hilarious really..and shows the mentality of most freeps (not all).. - not that freeps should be camping there anyway..
There is very few freeps i have seen that actually heal effectively....some think they do...but really - they don't..
Freeps always complain about creeps stacking heals..but really 1 RK can outheal 3 defilers easily..they just choose to DPS instead...And minstrels..geez...why choose to play a healing class if you never heal ? another example of the mentality of some freeps.
Possibly the only freep class that should lose a 1v1 would be a hunter , but group that hunter with a rk/lm/cap/min and that Duo becomes quite formidable , and creeps NEED extra numbers to have ANY chance to get a kill..
In saying that, it also needs to be noted, that there is a Massive difference between low ranked and high rank creeps of the same class...Even a solo hunter can kill 3 or 4 low ranked grouped creeps pretty easy , which is why low ranks need to wait for a creep leader to step up and help them..
Until said creep leaders come on, low ranks just sit at grams and such and die when coming 1 metre too far outside their 1 shotters.. i see this all the time, and to me it seems as bad form as farming your own freaver train ( and probably just as boring ).
Another thing i've noticed is freeps seem to fill raids with no real need...freeps map to GV and join raids without first asking if there is even creeps on...possibly to join friends, possibly to earn the extra points some other member of fraid earns..possibly a leftover from months ago when fraids were needed, i'm not sure..
I could be wrong, but it seems if Shupth isn't on leading craids, the action is just...inaction..
I'm glad the leaderboards have gone..it may change the mentality of peeps to where enjoyable fights are the name of the game, and not just a race to the next rank..
To finish this off, i play a hunter ( often solo ) and have never had a craid NOT run over me...Often had 20 or more chase me all over the map ( led by Vet creeps - who will then even corpse jump once they kill me).
It just encourages me to join unneeded fraids to do the same back and see how they like it..unfortunately the Vet creeps can't be found when the tables turn ... ( i have seen Shupth solo lately tho - which makes me think he is tired of leading )
Wall of text over..
OMG they fixed my forum account!!!
Here Turbine, let me fix your game for free...
1st) Remove rune keepers from game, its an unbalanced lorebreaking class
2nd) [OOC]: LFG <-- BAM! 8 days ban
3rd) [OOC]: LFG (+ its a RK) <-- TAKE THIS EZMODER TOLKIENS SHAME! Account explodes.
4th) [OOC]: x <-- ezmoder AND lazy... die die die!!! (character actually chokes and die)
5th) for any WS minstrel rubble gets an extra bubble
6th) If a shield traited warden steps out in the moors, morkel automatically goes out if his ignore list.
7th) any hunter standing at the top of TR/Lug/TA automatically becomes a dumb NPC doomed to tweet helpless with "the bird".. continues on 8th)
8th) if so called character is a LM it becomes a bush... inside Isendeep... bore to death lame player!!!
9th) Remove RKS from game, i mean it.
i should be Dev.
1) <3 nannu's post, ty for the laugh, epic post. :) /agree on RKs. :P
2) Some may not still be around from when I first read the notes about the proposed changes to the moors in turbine's idea for moving the fights around and replacing existing balance mechanics. The primary thing that's wrong with the moors imo, is that there is no real balance mechanic. I read those changes and said these changes will only further help the side that is already winning, already zerging, already has more numbers. Nothing in the current system helps teh side that actually needs the help at the time. If you have more, you can afford to keep the OPs flipped your way and keep your offense buffs. If you have more you can cap all the keeps and kill the delving bosses and cap the relics too, giving tons of renown or infamy buffs, incoming damage reduction etc. So what if you can roll 2-3 trolls or rangers, they never were scaled well, they cost comms and are pretty boring to play presently because of how weak and ineffective they are as a balance mechanic, the only balance mechanic other than a slight buff to your gains when outnumbered enough. I mean really? Most seem to have not seen that as a bad thing and supported turbine in these changes. Most see these in action daily and still somehow believe it's a good system. This baffles me. How can people NOT see that the system rewards the side with more, it rewards the zergball heavily. It discourages the side that for whatever reason at that time cannot gather a sizable enough force to deal with the enemy. It practically begs people to flip and go farm ez rank and comms rather than sit there and get farmed or just log out.
without a turbine supported balance mechanic this leaves the players to self-balance, and we've seen how that works, for years now. It does not.
I applaud those that have tried to fight for the side that needs the help more. I know it's not easy and often not nearly as fun as just ezmode steamrolling the other side.
Simple fact on main topic here though is, grams camps, gv camps, rez camps, elf camps, orc camps, TA front door camps, etc. They have always been a part of the game. People prefer to find a spot where they can find action and not have to roam and work for it. It's the nature of the crowd. Even back when we did the stab shuffle some of us would roam the map and leave the stab shuffle for hours and come back to find the same people there donig the same thing over and over, we may have had some fun adventures and encounters or been run over by a raid on the move in our travels. But eventually even those of us that chose not to stay in one spot all day would find a little comfort in coming back to the stab ec ta wtab oc area to find something to do, to share with others out there, etc. This will always be a part of this game's pvp unless they add instanced PVP,, which I thought they would do with the skirmish and instance finder systems added to the game, but have chosen not to.
So, all we can do as players is continue to try to find ways to make it fun, or leave the moors and do something else when it becomes less than fun.
There is no magic solution right now.
My hope would be that turbine would find a way to reward the buffs to the side with less players to compensate for lower numbers, to help even the field more. But somehow they keep missing the concept of how to put a helpful balance mechanism in place.
Until then, it's up to us. I miss Drakgor on creepside, not all liked him, but I enjoyed his raids. I also miss all my old spirits and taba PVP people. I had so much fun on freep and creep with them, we had a blast on vent and in game and always found ways to make things fun regardless of what was going on, or log back to PVE and do something else or call it a night, etc.
To all creeps: Heed the words of Father Merrin:
"Especially important is the warning to avoid conversations with the demon. We may ask what is relevant but anything beyond that is dangerous. He is a liar. The demon is a liar. He will lie to confuse us. But he will also mix lies with the truth to attack us. The attack is psychological, Damien, and powerful. So don't listen to him. Remember that - do not listen."
i.e. Come get farmed! What's the matter, you chicken? You have no other way of having fun. You have no self respect! Your skills will get better the more times you die.
2) soloers know that is more likely to get killed in the middle of a RvR situation and if they get involved in one is because raiders zerg zerg zerg and leave no soloers on the other side + we get less renown cause we could eat 99% of a creep morale, but if a member of the raid hits it... there ya go! 15 renown!... not good for the business.
With this im not saying that you zerg soloers (in fact I know you dont), i just quoted you cause you (unwillingly) brought the topic to the table.
Everybody just needs to stop taking these pixels too serious.
There is still division between different cliques creep and freepside.
People not liking so and so, people not grouping with such and such...
If a toon is logged over on a side and taking up space on server, he/she is more then likely not "just" trolling...they see imbalance, they want to help, they want a good fight, they want some fun...
Their is no reason to hold such personal grudges....
"I don't like such and such's freep so I won't group with him if hes on creepside"
"I don't like being corpse jumped by such and such so I won't heal him."
"Remember back like 6 months ago when so and so said something negative on forums, yah I still hate him."
To see people ragequit a raid because a certain person joins, or hear someone rage in vent because I say I'm inviting such and such to raid.
Just get over yourselves!
Come together as one and help eachother out. Fight for the common goal and coordinating against the enemy! There is no reason why their should be 3 groups of 8 creeps trying to fight a raid and a half of freeps because "I don't like that guy leading" or "Oh, so and so is in your group? nah, I don't want to merge, that tribe doesn't know ### they are doing"
FFS, I'm sure he won't admit to it, but Akthuri and I even grouped up freepside the other day and had some sporadic fun running around the map. We even made Maggot have a raging aneurism in Vent.
Put aside your differences, overcome the odds and find some fun.
If you have 40 people at grams and someone says they only track a 15 enemies there...maybe you should ragedisband, or split up....Hell, don't split up and just station half the raid in a flanking position to give the other side a good 15 seconds at trying to kill a couple things before you flank zerg me.......
Would I love to get back to full fellowshipping it only and not creating such a stupid laggy raiding mess, sure.
Would I love to once again get a fellowship and a half of veteran freeps to fight 18 freeps for 30 continuous minutes straight running around a spot on the map, just healing, and rezzing, and focus firing, and raging, and crying, and mapping back in, sure.
But we can only adapt to what Turbine gives us. So turbine gives us "ZERG OR BE ZERGED"
It'll only get worse in Helms deep when Freeps all have to relearn their brand new classes and get cool shiny weapons and loot, and creeps will be sitting around waiting for whatever nerf comes next.
Just have fun, and when you aren't anymore: Log Off
@Akthuri: There is something really annoying called war leader bug, you cant heal, you cant die, you cant do anything usefull. Since i came back yesterday was the third time i got it. I dont know if it is because the amount of CC and lag thanks to the Fotm LM that cause it + WL having the same stance or what, but If you log off it takes like 30 min or even more to clean connection to get into the game again, or you could wait till a GM kill you and that fix the bug but till some GM come to help that takes even longer lol. Also if the raid is not disbanded and you join again you can get the bug again.
So when you say that people where hiding.. well they basically couldnt log in on the game so.. I hope that explain some stuff for you.
After reading all the posts here including my own, and checking again the original post i feel like.. Haha bascially all you guys and me including have been trolled by Bleedtodeath lol
I mean how I couldnt see this before! lol + rep to you I guess, you got some people interested for a while, and some of them even look mad!
After watching your gameplay style and reading again your first post I cant avoid to smile, some people may call you hypocrite for asking "changes" on other people playstyle when you are actually doing what you described, but dont worry If you are happy and you are having fun, good for you I am nobody to judge.
-Here an extremely low quality screenshot to make fun of the bad quality graphics when you run out of comments to troll:
You got 4 Rune keepers, 1 Captain, 2 Minstrels, 1 hunter. Pretty much a Fotm-Rofl-heal-godmode-storepay2wincrap-awesomeDPS-potatobaddies group.. just Krykid son the rk can hold at least 6 creeps on him before he die, imagine how hard can be to stay alive for that group make up haha. It was Melex (hunter) and Clawbreaker (minstrel) too before but i guess they got bored and went to do pve after me and Rubberduck mapped to take SOP.
2 War leaders, 1 greenie warg, 1 BA and 1 reaver, oh and the poor guy Armataqui or something that he was switching toons to see if he could do something but since he is a greenie, he got exploded any time he leave the one shots.
The Maggotmath was pretty accurated this time haha.
Advice to everybody, dont waste your time on the forums, people dont change, they dont care about your opinions, points is all that matter and get them in the easiest way is a priority.
We can blame turbine for ruining the PVP with their "patches", but at the end is the player behind the toon that have the power to offer a good show or not.. after all.. Lotro is serious bussiness and freeps are not OP haha.
Everybody sucks, specially you Coco!
Because this --->Quote:
Why do people feel the need to qualify agreeing with Rubble and Maggot, I don't get it.
-Creep healing is way superior to freeps <Liars. If your freep Healers actually tried to heal they could out heal us tons.
-Creeps hug NPCS because they cant fight us. <Lies again i was in a creep raid last night that zerged threw npcs to fight freeps because freeps kept running to the back door of lug.
-Creep dps is overpowered. If i can be crit for 14k from an RK and no one on our side can hit that high. I highly doubt our dps is overpowered my friend.
-Creep CC is overpowered. < Warleaders/defilers get hit with more CC than anyone on creepside Atleast freepside can Immune stun half their groups, Creeps were shafted when they handed out this skill.
There are alot of good points in this thread ( and no personal flaming so far which is good ) but these 2 points stuck out to me.Quote:
If a BA pops his evade then attack another target or have Runekeepers, Minis, Lore-masters and other skills from other freeps that go right through their evade take them down. If a spider uses their reflect then stop attacking them or just don't hit them with your biggest hitting skills so you don't blow yourself up. Try to evenly distribute the damage between players. Or heck, just have somebody heal through the damage you do and ignore their reflect.
And it goes to show, even though most posters seem to not agree with or like Grams camps, we still can't all agree on other things..lol. ( or have different opinions of them anyway )
I guess as has been stated, no-one can dictate to others how ( or what class ) to play.
Leading a raid is not easy, and props go to those willing to do so..
Have seen and been in some great action on this server ( easily as good as other so-called PVP servers ) , Creeps play real well when co-ordinated, freeps could do alot better to put up a good fight when this happens instead of just getting more numbers, but i can understand a leader can't be required to teach his other 23 raid members ( most of who they prob have no idea who they are ) how to play.. They are left with the tactic of just being able to fill the raid and calling out a Focus target or assigning a target assist.
There was a lot to disagree with, but I don't like writing walls of txt like elda or others.
Wow...this thread got long!
People are going to play the way they want. There's really not much to be done about it. I can only choose how I conduct myself. Others need to be accountable for their own actions. Lately, PvMP hasn't been much fun for me, so I've been playing less. I think a lot of folks have felt that way. It makes me sad. The game has been, frankly, pretty damn boring. Only so many times I can sit around with a rating of 179 (I didn't know ratings could actually go below 200) before I just need a break.
I get why greenies raid up. I did it a lot when I was a greenie creep. I've learned I actually much prefer small groups. Sadly, our server/the game in general, is not small group friendly right now. Poor timing for me.
Sometimes, I lead on creepside. I've done that less lately as well. One can only herd cats for so many hours in a row. That being said, I do think there needs to be more open-ness and less griping about who is invited to groups/raids. If raid v raid is where the action is, let's just group up, cooperate, and try to get some good fights. All the griping about who has the "right" playstyle, etc, gives me even more of a headache than the rating of 179!!
It would be nice if folks would at least realize when one side has the ON buff and perhaps break up into somewhat smaller groups to give the less populated side a chance to roam/find some fights. In general, I have taken to not calling things out in OOC until I can see I'm seriously outnumbered/outclassed. Not everyone does that, but I can't be responsible for everyone else. I can only choose how I conduct myself (yes, I repeated that on purpose). It might also be nice if, when noticing one side has an ON buff, the other side doesn't then also rush to take all the OPs, etc. to push them to a further disadvantage. Then again, not everyone wants fun fights. Some folks just want to "win," whatever that means to them.
This topic can go on and on, and in the end, I seriously doubt anyone will change how they think, behave or the overall atmosphere of the Moors.
Hahaha damn you Malte! I write wall of texts because my english suck and is hard to write something that can be readed by others lol
This is all your fault Cocobadster, you will pay..
I ran through the entire map, doing my usual run-down, HH -> OP's -> Grothum -> Grams. After 20 minutes of searching the map. I ride up to grams, and what do you know! There are 5 creeps sitting up there. No freeps there or anything. After a burg called them out, the freep group showed up. Then rubberduck and yourself. After 20 minutes or so of fighting. I logged.
Nice try though!
I wish I took pics of the 5 creeps sitting there with no freeps. It was funny too see, and even funnier too think about after your post! Keep trying!