I said that they would have left BEFORE Glóin's party left Erebor, since it would have made no sense for them to leave had that not been the case.
That is not impossible but is highly unlikely. When the capitol of your kingdom is threatened with war, you tend to send word to all your colonies as well, especially when they're so closeby.
I said, "call them an Earldom if you wish". They still retain their own government which SHOULD answer to the King, but which does NOT need to ask the Kings permission for their internal affairs.
The Iron Hills did not have any known seperate establishment that did not answer to the King of Durin's Folk.
The game assumes they are, so we should too. We are discussing in-game stuff here.
In fact it's not even known if the Iron Hills were still in use at that time. But let's pretend for argument's sake that the Iron Hills were still inhabited.
Stewardship, Lordship, it gives them the right to arrange their own expedition right? Once again, I suggest you refer lower down, where I said they would be an Earldom rather than a kingdom.
Dáin ruled over the Iron Hills as a Lord even before he became a King. Do you think he'd just *give away* his biggest colony after becoming king? No.
Sure, he likely gave stewardship or lordship to a prominent family member (one of his sons perhaps) if he decided to keep the Iron Hills populated, but he wouldn't just hand a quarter of his kingdom to someone. Two Longbeard Kings are a BIG no-no.
An expedition of just around two hundred dwarves to Moria is definitely not a matter that would have required Dáin's attention, especially since he was so worried about war with Mordor anyway.
Much like how colonies in our own history (and up to this day even) are maintained, Dáin is still the boss. If anything major is planned, his permission/blessing would undoubtedly be required.
I am well aware of that, and I have not said anything to the contrary, so I don't quite get your point. The only reason I mentioned that was to show that the dwarves of the Iron Hills had their own government that did not need to inform or ask permission of the Longbeard King for whatever they wanted to do. It was only ever recorded that they answered to the King, in facy, when they were summoned for war.
I remember, but do you? That is the reason Dáin was Lord of the Iron Hills in the first place, he was Grór's grandson. Thrór and Grór decided to split up the task of rebuilding a home: Thrór being the eldest became the King and ruled from Erebor while the younger brother Grór became a Lord and ruled the Iron Hills.
Well, they had their own government that did not need to consult with the King and is only ever recorded answering to him when he summoned them for War.
The Iron Hills were clearly not a kingdom, since they had no king. The Iron Hills were ruled instead by Lords (that were cousins of the King). But when the King demanded support the Iron Hills answered. Again, as still happens today with colonies.
Contrary to what you may have seen in the movie, not all that many dwarves escaped from the fall of Erebor. The only two dwarves that made it out alive were Thrór and Thráin. Thorin says that he was out with his friends, on some sort of adventure, which is why they did not die. Him, Balin, a few other dwarves? Just how many do you think were outside? and no one escaped apart from the King and his son, Thorin says that they fled out their great gate, but the dragon was waiting for them, and none escaped that way. So I find it ridiculous to say that the Iron Hills could not have supported around twenty or so dwarves fleeing there. It is also impossible to say that they would have attracted attention, unless you think that twenty dwarves going east is a 'sufficient number of Dwarves gathering there'. Nor was the Dragon in the sky- he entered Erebor and piled up the gold there and lay on it for a bed. Later he would come out at night and raid Dale and carry away people to eat. He did not kill them all in one go. Nor did he sack Esgaroth. He didn't destroy everything he laid eyes on. Why would he attack a party of dwarves that he would barely be able to see anyway?
Exactly why the refugees of Erebor did not go the Iron Hills is unknown. A number of hypothetical reasons have been given over the decades;
- The Iron Hills were litte more than a mining colony which could not support Erebor's exodus (as its name suggests, it was mostly iron that was found there, and it was initially just a mining settlement for the Grey Mountains' Dwarves to come mine).
- Thráin did not want to attract attention of it to Smaug who was so nearby. Even though the colony was not rich, a sufficient number of Dwarves gathering there could attract Smaug's attention.
- Some did flee to the Iron Hills. Just not all. The survivors scattered in smaller bands.
- With a dragon in the sky, going east over an open plain in full view for 100 miles is not a great idea. Better to go into the forest and out of sight.
You know, they didn't have jets and email and video conferencing. A colony could not be under the rule of a King so far away, their numbers simply did not permit it! They did not have villages and towns every 30 or so miles between them! You may think that such a thing could work in Gondor, or Rohan, where there are enough people to have large numbers of settlements in proxximity to each other. But not for the dwarves. That was a why a Lord ruled in the first place.
Um, no. It was pretty close. Heck even today countries still maintain colonies on the other side of the planet. The distance between Erebor and the Iron Hills is little compared to that, only roughly 120 miles.
I meant to write Rivendell.
- Glóin doesn't go to Moria.
Did I not mention the alternate path around Mirkwood? They'd still have met the Beornings.
- They are not exactly friends with the Mirkwood Elves. Not at all, as evidenced by Gimli and Glóin.
They actually had picks, there is a whole quest where we have to carry them over. Perhaps they didn't know of the river or stuff if Elrond hadn't told them, but there could be a different reason for them going through the Hollin Gate: the fact that they may not have wished to cross the mountains yet again to go through the Dimrill Gate.
- They didn't know about the pool, or the trees, or the sealed door. When they arrive they are surprised by all of it as indicated by the quest dialogues. There are even quests where you make tools to clear everything away because they didn't bring any; they were expecting a Dwarf door in a wall, nothing more. They didn't equip for clearing rubble or passing through water (their carts get stuck and they have no mining picks with them).
If you think that is so illogical, do you have an alternate explanation? These reasons may seem illogical to you - and they shouldn't - but if they do, then can you think of a more logical explanation?